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July 15, 2006

Comments

Yes it is a double standard.
I'm not sure what I think of it.
Here are a few things to note about this double standard
a) The double standard is not being promoted by the government, but by the liberal establishment.
b) When the government has anything to say about it, they usually side with an insane single standard instead, imprisoning adult female teachers for sex with their male students for many years etc.
c) We really can safely assume a higher level of sexual consent from teenaged boys than from teenaged girls in most circumstances.
d) The government's behavior is the result of a strain of liberal non-leftist thought, specifically an exaggerated reverance for the law and for equality before the law.
e) The liberal establishment's general agenda, in so far as they can have one, seems to be to masculinize female sexuality and feminize male sexuality.
f) For the most part, this seems to be a Utility Maximizing agenda in so far as it is successful, as it reduces the number of intrinsic sexual conflicts of interest between the genders.
g) It may tend to reduce life's "authenticity" by increasing the conflict between culture and genetics in some respects, but OTOH, all regulation of sexuality does this. This is definitely better than the conservative default which is to regulate towards exaggerating gender differences in a manner which increases societal conflict of interests.
h) Most of the pressure is towards feminizing boys. Pressure towards masculinizing women is primarily in the context of sex. The implicit Liberal ideal seems to be a transformation into sentient Bonobos (low sexual dimorphism, low reproductive skew, low male-male aggression) while the conservative ideal is more like a transformation to sentient Gorillas (the opposite).
i) It is very difficult to understand how efforts like this are arranged. They seem to be best understood as actual patterns at a level of organization above the individual. Hegel called them the "Zeitgeist" and rightly pointed out that they are VERY difficult to either understand or oppose.
j) I'd be happy to chat some time and think about this issue in person.

"Teenage" often means underage -- and usually nonconsensual -- in Thailand, etc. Not necessarily in the Times's story. Hence the double standard. But thank God you're standing up for the old rich pervs of the world.

HS, I don't see anything in the article about *underaged* teenage boys. That's the problem most people have with Thai sex tourism -- the girls are often very young, sometimes pre-pubescent. Also, they're often sold to brothels by their families as young children and are treated very cruelly. These Carribbean guys sound like independent freelancers, and are probably at least 16. A guy can get an 18-and above hooker easily in the U.S., whereas it's probably much harder for a woman to find a *straight* male prostitute.

Still, there is something disgusting about any person using his or her economic and social status to gain sexual advantage over the poor, especially the Third World poor. Terry McMillan ("How Stella Got Her Groove Back") got her comeuppance when that Jamaican boy she married turned out to be gay.

What's really funny is when these old dogs later complain that the young, poor hottie just wanted them for their money.

Amazingly, this article doesn't say a word about HIV -- and come on, they are in *Haiti*! I read an article in a women's mag a couple years ago about male Carribean hustlers and female tourists. These guys supposedly won't wear condoms and are very reluctant about, um, "Heading South."

hedonism without judgment doesn't lead to liberation, it leads to bastard children, broken families and disease. These women should be ashamed of themselves. They're not enlightened, they're just sluts who have to take advantage of boys to get any.

I think you're making too much of this. I don't think male sex tourists are really considered perverts. There are a lot of differences between the two cases, including fact v fiction, and I think a lot of public reaction is just contrarianism.

there is a double standard in newspaper articles on this because there is a double standard in nature. no one cares about older female sexuality at all and no one ever has. if a woman is past her breeding prime AND is no longer a matron to small children, she simply slips off the moral radar screen. MALE sexuality has consequences for women, rape, pregnancy etc. female sexuality has zero consequences to men.

That review wasn't as biased as you say, but even if it had been, the double standard is actually far more sensible and realist. If you want a shrill account of female sex tourism, the Guardian had the story you want several years ago. (unfortunately it's no longer online)

The thing is, is that for there to be a feeling of injustice we have to feel there is an exploitation occurring due to an imbalance of power. In the case of male sex tourism the power imbalance is obvious: age imbalance, class imbalance, race imbalance, and sex imbalance. In the case of female sex tourism we only have two power imbalances: race and class. But the important thing is that, and feminists should agree, the sex power imbalance still trumps the race and class power imbalance. The men in these relationships, as poor and nonwhite as they are, still mostly manage the upper hand.

The movie being reviewed seems to say as much, as did the Guardian piece. Terry "Got Her Groove Back" McMillan, in her failed attempt at sugar-mommery, is another biting example.

Whenever I see these unbelievably hot women getting the same legal treatment for sex with a sixth grader as a man would, I definitely am not glad there's no "double-standard". Shouldn't laws be based on, umm, actual harm? Well the things that hurt women are different than the things that hurt men.

The hypocrisy and self-deception generated by this issue is most amusing. The Independent (a Brit newspaper)ran a most entertaining article on this topic. As a man (yes, that horrid species) let me say that I give some credit to those women honest enough to admit that they are paying younger 'boy toys' to entertain them on their vacations. Life offers many opportunities that are both enticing and undignified, and surely this is one. But come on ladies, admit that you're buying it. Some of your sisters are honest enough to do so.

I have an old high school friend who has spent the last 25 years in the navy. He's told me about the 'girlfriends' that one acquires on leave in the Phillipines, but he was never so stupid as to claim that this was an 'torrid holiday romance.' Jesus, women can convince themselves of anything. Please re-read the closing pages of 'Heart of Darkness' for further illucidation.

Oh, and by the way, all this chatter about power imbalances in the above posting is horseshit. Anybody who has ever taken any job has been victimized by a power imbalance, in that it's easier for them to replace you than for you to find another decent job. People who want to exchange sex and/or manufactured emotion for money should have every right to do so. Who's to say this is more demeaning than cleaning other people's toilets or carrying food and drink to their tables?

'Life is a hard game, Sister'
-John Wayne to Katherine Hepburn in 'True Grit'

dana,
That makes sense in theory, but it's not my sense of the world. Could you offer more examples of people not caring about older female sexuality?

Oh, and by the way, all this chatter about power imbalances in the above posting is horseshit. Anybody who has ever taken any job has been victimized by a power imbalance, in that it's easier for them to replace you than for you to find another decent job

No, it's not complete bullshit, but I agree I generally dislike how it is used by certain parties. But if you don't think about it, you won't understand the main reasons that, e.g., people really don't like the idea of a 40 year old man dating a 14 year old girl. Whether age power imbalances are really the only appropriate ones for ethical consideration (and not race, class, sex, etc) I leave for others, but let's not pretend these considerations aren't already driving a lot of opinions on numerous matters. As for the job power imbalance, how does that invalidate the concept? It supports it; note there are more laws protecting the employee than the employer, precisely because of this feeling.

"The thing is, is that for there to be a feeling of injustice we have to feel there is an exploitation occurring due to an imbalance of power"

Which explains why it's the guys who are the ones who are doing the paying?

There is a very simple biological explanation for this. Men are at their randiest from about 16-21. They want sex all the time. Girls their age don't want sex all the time, therefore they think it's an unhealthy male obsession. They don't understand the need.

Women. When they hit 40, they turn into teen-age boys. They are randy all the time. Why not go to the female thailand and have sex with boys. NOW, they get why men are so horny because they FEEL it.

Taking this further, the randy Man is 16. He's got no money for romance, so all he wants is a poke in the backseat of his car. this further reinforces the idea for women that men are dirty perverts. a Woman's lack of interest in sex is equated with purity. Men's sexual randyness isn't wholly welcome by girls his age.

When the woman hits 40, presumably she can afford to class up the whole thing up and the Men are Willing.

That's why it's classier for women to go whoring then men.

this is all generally speaking.

The sexual double standard has been tilted this way for years.

Can you imagine a TV show where one of the male heros has an affair with an underage schoolgirl like in "desperate Housewives"?

The fact is that a woman with a vibrator who watches male strippers is "liberated" a man with a sex doll who watches female strippers is "a pervert".

Straight male sexuality is feared and repressed, and has been at least since the 1980s when I hit puberty. Anyone claiming that men have the power is just saying so to help enforce female dominance.

That's the way of society and anyone who thinks that it isn't is still living in the 1950s.

I wish that I could meet single lonely horny man in person for sex in action. Also have a nice mexican man who has 7",thick cock fucks only pussy without codoms. come over to 228 N. Howard St. #208 Downtown Spokane WA.

Sexual Utopia In Power

spungen,
"A guy can get an 18-and above hooker easily in the U.S., whereas it's probably much harder for a woman to find a *straight* male prostitute."
Many reasonably attractive straight males would be glad to give it to most of these women for free. There are probably more men who have had sex with sheep than women who have actually paid for sex with men.

The dutch have got this consent thing about right.as long long as the guy has an age difference of no more than 3 years e.g. shes 14 hes 17 then its ok. this stops the dirty old man exploitation issue in its tracks.
Incidentally the word peadophile is wrong it should be child sexual abuser plain and simple,peadophile means someone who loves children.Francophile means someone who loves France etc etc ,95% of parents love there children.

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