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September 13, 2006

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the chance of a hot girl really being interested in that stuff is as high as the chance of a hot girl writing a blog about libertarian politics

I don't know ... Jacqueline Passey and Megan "Jane Galt" McArdle aren't too bad-looking.

Annalee Newitz (far-left) is kinda cute.

It's not that there are NO hot nerd chicks, it's that there are very few of them. Libertarian female nerds are even rarer due to the scarcity of female libertarians in general. My general experience is that most female nerds are liberal, but most young women on the East Coast are liberal, so maybe that's just sampling bias.

Annalee is kinda cute? She looks like part of the roadie crew for an Ani Difranco show. I guess it takes all kinds.

But really, good-looking women aren't usually erudite, because they don't have to be. And when a not unattractive woman tries to use her brains, there is never a shortage of internet losers commenting on how hot she is (as opposed to what she is saying). I imagine that gets frustrating.

Why is it that so many male libertarians are nerdy? There seems to be little doubt that it's the case; if you surveyed men attending a Star Trek convention and men owning NFL season tickets I'd bet anything that there'll be a much higher percentage of libertarian in the former group. But why?

Peter,

That's because libertarianism is a fringe movement, and so only those who have thought about political philosophy to some degree will normally have even heard about it. It also requires a certain amount of rational thought to overcome people's emotional response to many issues (think how Democrats lure voters). Although I'd like to believe that belief in libertarianism can be used as an informal IQ test - if you aren't a libertarian, you're an idiot - I can't quite bring myself to believe that. But there's definitely an ounce of truth to it.

Never heard of or seen that "blog." But, it doesn't seem like it would take a "wonderful actress" to tell a person what he wants to hear.

It's kind of like when a guy tells a feminist he's a feminist too. In concept, sounds fabulous. In reality, he's likely 1) a liar 2) who wants to sleep with you.

The libertarian thing for guys is probably like feminism for women. A lot more privately agree with the values than want to identify with the label. It scares off most of the opposite sex bc there's the perception that its adherents are out to get them.

Austrian: The reason attractive women aren't erudite is because they don't want to ruin it for themselves. When men want to talk, they go to men.

I only pretend that i'm libertarian so I can score with libertarian guys.

Yeah, well, my feminism is inversely related to the guy's attractiveness.

"Why is it that so many male libertarians are nerdy?"
Interesting question; I passed through a libertarian phase myself, so having been both libertarian and not I guess I could comment. I quit when I realized the free market was Not My Friend, and not the friend of most other people either.
I think the whole idea of maximum self-reliance and thus being economically conservative appeals to people with poor social skills; less socializing to do, after all. Nerds aren't necessarily very big on compassion either; if people don't like you most of the time why would your heart bleed for them when they're down?
Also if you've spent your life at the bottom of the social hierarchy for not liking football, your enthusiasm for bashing people for being gay is going to be somewhat muted. Thus, social liberalism.

Of course this isn't the only way you can be a libertarian. If you're a successful entrepreneur (who probably has pretty good social skills to do what he or she does, although the Internet produced a few exceptions) you want to hang onto the cash you've sweated for for so long (thus economically conservative) and, having succeeded outside the usual channels, might be less likely to harshly judge people who don't necessarily fit in (thus socially liberal).

That's just MY theory. I did notice that most of the young Republicans I know tend to be libertarian in bent; they didn't care much about abortion and thought gay marriage was fine if the people in the state were OK with it. (Notably not the case with some courts.) Of course, I was in a Northeastern lower-upper-middle-class milieu so that may explain a lot.

I hate guys who pine for some pretty yet nerdy girl that can relate to them. It's no different than the fat women who imagine a tall, successful guy with a full head of hair will love them for their inner person.

These nerds will realize the same disappointment every sports fan feels after talking to a girl in a baseball hat at a bar: it's just an act that peters out after about 5 minutes.

If nerds only knew that women are more than happy having the same 5 minute conversations about the stuff they care about: "The Bachelor", celebrities, and whatever girlfriend of theirs they happen to hate
that week.

Wow, this LonelyGirl thing is getting a lot of coverage. I just don't get the appeal, maybe because I'm over 25. I suppose LazyDork the Mexican Jew is also too good to be true.

SFG, nice analysis. I'd add that making money was so easy for young guys in tech in the 90s, that many genuinely believed the free market was a friendly place to anyone not lazy or stupid.

Most of the young(ish) Republicans I know are libertarian leaning. Unless they're really religious, which most young metro people aren't, they're going to want to have sex before marriage nowadays. That's a slippery slope to other socially liberal views. Peter, the NFL season ticket holders probably don't care much about politics. They're Republican by default. People with alternative views are usually more dedicated. Thus, less time for sports fandom.

A number of teen girls identify as libertarian. Ayn Rand novels probably contribute a lot to this, as well as young people's general dislike of authority. (Not so many, in my experience, once they get into the work force.) But they're not going to sound like Libertarian Girl. She wrote like a 30-something with post-grad education. Same thing with LonelyGirl -- clearly the work of film students, not a 15-year-old. Plus, anyone that bright and talented would not have those cutesy little-girl mannerisms. She'd be bitchy and annoying.

Jackie Passey may be a libertarian, but when was the last time she wrote a political essay? She mostly blogs about the fun stuff she does with guys, like HS said a cute LG would blog about. If she were a 38-year-old prof it would be different, but the appeal to guys would drop off substantially.

Russ, I can't tell a bad-girlfriend story in under an hour.

I understand in Iraq, where at any one military base there are 10 to 20 times the number of men as there are women, they have what's called the "Queen Of The Desert" problem. Since every straight guy (who isn't securely married) is hitting on these women, even the plainest jane suddenly feels and acts like J-Lo. Similiarly, for every hot libertarian girl / tech geek / sports nut, she's being hit on by a beehive full of drones.

Exhibit A, Jacqueline Passey and her loser battalion who agreed with her 100% that she deserves her solitude away from her pestering fanboys, even as they individually asked in her comment page why she didn't write back to their heartfelt and no doubt numerous emails.

The fishing is easier with chicks who read gossip and fashion magazines or blogs. If they even know what a blog is, the world is full of pretty girls who don't. Like Sailer suggested, go to an art gallery opening (yoga classes are good too).

Go where the fish are biting. If you wait for the fish that flops onto the dock with you, you'll starve.

I understand in Iraq, where at any one military base there are 10 to 20 times the number of men as there are women, they have what's called the "Queen Of The Desert" problem. Since every straight guy (who isn't securely married) is hitting on these women, even the plainest jane suddenly feels and acts like J-Lo.

The situation in Iraq is exacerbated by the fact that for cultural/religious reasons, local women are completely off-limits.* During the Vietnam War there were very few if any women among the American troops, but it was less of a problem for the men because local women were readily available.

Similiarly, for every hot libertarian girl / tech geek / sports nut, she's being hit on by a beehive full of drones.

I'd disagree as far as the "sports nut" part is concerned. Men who are seriously into sports don't seem to have much trouble finding women even though not many women share their interests. Of course, sci-fi and fantasy are also largely male-oriented pursuits, but their fans have far less luck attracting women. It could be that women don't mind it if men are involved in activities that don't appeal to women so long as the activities are sufficiently masculine in nature. Sports qualify, sci-fi and fantasy don't.

The fishing is easier with chicks who read gossip and fashion magazines or blogs. If they even know what a blog is, the world is full of pretty girls who don't. Like Sailer suggested, go to an art gallery opening (yoga classes are good too).

I suspect that feigning interest in female-oriented activities is not a particularly useful way of attracting women. Most women can see right through that sort of tactic. Following up on what I said earlier, a single man's best bet is probably to be interested in normally male-oriented things like sports, cars, outdoor recreation etc., just where women expect men's interests to lie. You also should be a good listener when women talk about their interests, though it's not necessary to share those interests.

* = Iraq has a substantial though shrinking Christian minority. I don't know if many Christian women have gotten involved with American troops.


The problem with nerds, I suspect, is that smarter people learn more quickly than less smart people when they are young, and that most of the things that people are told about attracting girls are lies. Believing the lies leads them to not get the experience that would be required for them to reject those lies.

Well, you all should check the following link for a really nerdy beautiful scientific girl who has a science blog. She is hot.

http://scienceblogs.com/retrospectacle/2006/09/and_for_the_record.php

I believe the physical beauty is not strongly correlated with IQ very much.

Also, the problem with physical beauty is multiple. If girls are pretty, they tend to focus on experience of admiration and marrying to dominant guys. Beauty pageant is more interesting to them than science. So they will neglect their intellectual potential.

Second, a lot of so called `hot' women spend a lot of time for make up and make themself `hot'. The intellectual women of eqaual natural beauty never spend time for make up. Most of them even do not wear ear ring.

Peter,

"I suspect that feigning interest in female-oriented activities is not a particularly useful way of attracting women." The fact that you use the word "suspect" means you obviously have never tried it.

Most women are just like these libertarian-loving nerds. They are self-centered but dying to make any kind of real connection with the opposite sex. Talking about Baby Suri is usually 95% more of a connection than any other guy will show.

Feigning interest in female-oriented activities is like kicking someone in the balls during a fight. It works, but it makes you look like a sissy.

Be a man and treat them like crap. Don't swap details on the new season of the OC.

Many relationship quacks specialize in separating lonely guys from their money by telling them they can act a certain way (often aggressively) and thus become studs. It's bunk.

If you're attractive to women in your target market, you can pretty much act how you want (absent blatant abusiveness or criminality) and they'll praise you for it. If you're not, they won't like anything you do enough to sleep with you. Your stance on the OC or Battlestar Gallactica is irrelevant.

If you're attractive to women in your target market, you can pretty much act how you want (absent blatant abusiveness or criminality) and they'll praise you for it. If you're not, they won't like anything you do enough to sleep with you. Your stance on the OC or Battlestar Gallactica is irrelevant.

So what's a man supposed to do if (for whatever reason) he's not particularly attractive to women?


I don't know ... Jacqueline Passey and Megan "Jane Galt" McArdle aren't too bad-looking.

But they aren't that good looking either. Jacqui only looks that good after a lot of work, and quite frankly, she's way too boyish looking.

Second, a lot of so called `hot' women spend a lot of time for make up and make themself `hot'. The intellectual women of eqaual natural beauty never spend time for make up. Most of them even do not wear ear ring.

That's another dillema. Most intellectual women tend to disregard their apperance, while hot women spent their time to look hot. The problem is that with sex, the female's appearance counts for much, and her intellect is utterly useless in that regard. So, if you want sex, the hot girl is your best choice.

So what's a man supposed to do if (for whatever reason) he's not particularly attractive to women?

Invest in a good collection of pornography and keep the numbers of some decent prostitutes around. Nerds just don't have anything that normal women want, or tolerate the ugly reject girls that the other men don't want. There is no target market for nerds except for women who will take your money and cheat on you with an alpha.

Quite frankly, I've personally given up on finding a girlfriend. I'm sick and tired of hearing that I'm handsome from women, when my lack of a college degree (and money) and bizzare interests have pretty much barred me from dating anything resembling decent looking female.

Remember, no male is entitled to a female.

I should add, despite being Black, I'm pretty much narrowly focused on White women. I don't find Asian girls attractive, Hispanic women tend to have too many bad habits, and most Black women seem to think that scaring away men is a good thing.

Being a black geek interested in beautiful, non-trashy, sexy white women is an excellent way to stay single.

Being involved in "nerd culture" will MAKE you fail with women. Avoid this trap, find some other subculture to identify with.

David,

I appreciate your honesty, but I find it incredibly hard to believe you have trouble finding a white woman. There's a decent percentage of them who feel the need to realize their forbidden fantasy of the well-hung brother.

And if you're not well-hung, well hopefully they won't find out until it's too late.

Peter, if I had the answers, I'd be the guru. ;) My point is that people looking for love often obsess and waste time over unimportant minutia about how they act or look. (For women, it's "The Rules.") This often results in overlooking certain major, obvious, and simple problems with one's appearance, lifestyle, or situation.

For instance: David Alexander, didn't you mention you live with your mom? That is much more likely to turn off women rather than some nitpicky thing with your interests or personality. Just find a way to move out. (If all else fails, you could reinvent yourself as a dreadlocked reggae stoner. White women love those.)

I swear to God, I know lots of guys who like the SciFi network AND get women.

Austrian, that is actually the best advice that's been on this post. The only problem is you can't meet women that way. You can solidify interest that way.

"Solidify interest" by treating your target like crap? Sounds like Russ bought one of those books. ;)

OK, you're being commented on by Steve Sailer at this point, and his writer's making reference to the comic book shop with the cute nerdy chicks in it. Thought you might be amused.

I appreciate your honesty, but I find it incredibly hard to believe you have trouble finding a white woman. There's a decent percentage of them who feel the need to realize their forbidden fantasy of the well-hung brother

Actually, the problem with that is it only works if you fufill their fantasy of a strong, masculine ghetto thug. If you're just Urkel with better clothes, social skills, and less clumsy, you're not desirable, and you're no more interesting than the white nerds, but you come with the racial baggage.

For instance: David Alexander, didn't you mention you live with your mom? That is much more likely to turn off women rather than some nitpicky thing with your interests or personality.

Yes, I live with both of my parents and fall under the social-demographic class of the twixter. The problem with moving out is that if I do so, I'd take such a big hit to my standard of living (remember, I'm 23 and without a completed college education) that I'd rather stay at home and live a subsidized suburban lifestyle than deal with the ups and (mostly) downs of meeting women.

(If all else fails, you could reinvent yourself as a dreadlocked reggae stoner. White women love those.)

I'm Haitian. The stereotypical dreadlocked Jamaican is scorn of every middle and upper class Haitian or anybody else in the Islands.

I swear to God, I know lots of guys who like the SciFi network AND get women.

But, what quality are the women. If you don't mind below average women, then it's not a problem. If you want high quality, beautiful, women who spend hours on their appearance, then it might be a problem. Personally, I curse my long nail and high heel shoe fetish. The girls I have a deep romantic interest in tend not focus on these getting manicures or acrylic nails and wear high heel shoes on a daily basis.

"Bree" was on Leno tonight. She was on for only maybe a minute, but it was enough to confirm that she is pretty hot. She did a little dance with Tucker Carlson (long story), and that was about it.

Anyway, I'm eagerly awaiting "The Auto-Erotic Adventures of Bree." Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

Regarding all the lonely-guy stories playing out here, I still admire my former downstairs neighbor. He was a recent Cambodian immigrant, and newly divorced, but he would still knock on my door every Sat. night and invite me out to "Go see seck-see laaddiiiess..."

So, we'd go out. You gotta admire a guy whose English is so broken that I could barely understand him, but he never gave up.

Rose is on the local news right now, and I think that the fish-eye lens did her some favors. Narrowed the wide, chubby jaw and maximized the eyes.

David: But you're not after *Haitians*. Most American girls won't even know the
difference. I'd recommend defining any potential awkwardness in terms of a cultural difference, thus scoring novelty points.

Sounds like your geography and lifestyle are dragging you down. I had to live at home for most of college, too, in a neighborhood a lot like yours. It really puts a strain on relationships. I dated some pretty lame guys mainly bc they had apartments. And, I got dumped several times in favor of uglier girls with apartments. I had a friend who lived in the dorms and was cute, but didn't have a car, and she had similar issues. No one talks about it but it really does matter, especially to white/educated people. (Remember how the Half Sigma host freaked out when he visited the "lower-class neighborhood?" ;))


David: But you're not after *Haitians*. Most American girls won't even know the
difference. I'd recommend defining any potential awkwardness in terms of a cultural difference, thus scoring novelty points.

Actually, it's more of a personal elitism which amounts to "I'm not some lazy ass low class nigger from Jamaica. I'm better than that."

Sounds like your geography and lifestyle are dragging you down.

Despite the increase in the so-called twixter population, I'm still wondering how any of them still manage to find significant others. Here on Long Island, there's plenty of people who still live at home with their parents into their late 20s because for some of them, the financial benefits outweigh the social benefits even if they have good solid jobs.

Just as an example, I could live on my own, but I'd either have to live in an apartment in a less than safe neighbourhood with some less than admirable residents. To pay for rent, I'd end up working fulltime which makes the odds of suceededing in college much, much lower (not impossible, but lower). Plus, I'd still be financially worse off which means, I have the apartment to have sex in without harassment, but I wouldn't have the money to go on a date in the first place. Plus, what self-respecting white girl would date a poor black guy who doesn't even come across as a stereotypical strong thug.

Quite frankly, I'd much rather stay at home and deal with the social impediments. Admittedly, it's a bit more lonely, but the financial benefits (especially the car) makes it worth it, IMHO.

It's the fallacy of middle class. If I stay at home with my parents, I stay middle class. If I move out, then I become lower income, and thus even more undesirable and socially isolated.

People lack of foward planning ability will not be able to make right decision today with goal ten year later.

"People lack of foward planning ability will not be able to make right decision today with goal ten year later."

To be honest with you, I'm not sure how people with good forward planning ability can make the right decisions about what to do in ten years. Ten years ago IT would have seemed like a great career choice. And social skills will pay off now, but maybe there's an excess of Wal-Mart greeters in ten years and the real money for non-elites is in being a mechanic.

SFG

That is precise the point. Not many people are good at foward planning. Thank you for admitting it. The people good at it will not tell people who is bad at it.

This explains why cool kids in high school might be only good at pumping gas ten years later. Surprise!

That also explains people who can make money on wall street would not tell other true secret either. Only when you can retire, you can sell your idea to cash in. Once the idea is sold, the idea is no longer good any more. Think ahead of crowd and keep in your head.

David, I promise I'm not following you from thread to thread offering advice but:

You need to make a list of the assets you do have and play to your strengths. For one thing, you're Haitian, if you speak French, somewhere in New York there are places where French speaking women, or women interested in learning, hang out (French Institute Alliance Francaise to give one example), GO THERE.

Study (and there are wikis about everything) French culture-- art, wine, literature, film, fashion, food. You speak French, chicks will think you're an expert on all things Francaise. The point is, figure out what your target group of women are interested in and if you express an interest in the same things, you're ahead of the game.

You sound like a smart, clean cut guy, don't think of your role model as Urkel (for Christ sake man, that's like a girl thinking she's a lot like Rosie O'Donnell), think Will Smith. That vibe doesn't work for girls looking for a thug, but there are plenty of white women attracted to black men who are also nice guys.

Rent Hitch, Will Smith is your role model (there's a great flashback scene where the college age Hitch was definitely in the Urkel vein), in fact, watching that movie is good homework for any guy trying to improve the impression he makes on women.

It's okay Maitre Beowulf...

I think you're right about delving back into my francophilia again. It actually was a great conversation piece, especially back in the early days of college, and managed to attract the attention of some meh, but decent looking female engineering students. For various reasons, I seemed to lose interest in it (along with my once expensive photography habit), but maybe picking these things up again would help considerably.

You sound like a smart, clean cut guy, don't think of your role model as Urkel (for Christ sake man, that's like a girl thinking she's a lot like Rosie O'Donnell), think Will Smith.

Admittedly, I'm a nerd, but I'm not really a true Urkel type-nerd. I was never into science that much, and the only reason I skated by my honours science classes was thru quite a bit of cheating.* Carlton on the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air isn't a good approximation either of my geekyness. I'm not a Republican, I'm not middle class, but I do have the off-beat music tastes.

I guess I'm unique, and maybe that's a good thing. :)

That vibe doesn't work for girls looking for a thug, but there are plenty of white women attracted to black men who are also nice guys.

I'd be a bit more reassured if I didn't need to have signals of high income to attract white women. In turn, it's also quite possible that my taste in women leads towards those who want high income men, instead of good men/nice guys.

Rent Hitch, Will Smith is your role model (there's a great flashback scene where the college age Hitch was definitely in the Urkel vein), in fact, watching that movie is good homework for any guy trying to improve the impression he makes on women.

I think might go ahead and do that...

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