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November 08, 2006

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and one party will become a coalition of minorities and poor religious whites

Never happen. The leadership talent pool from those groups is too thin to put together a national party without help from (and thus cooption by) members of elite groups.

bbartlog,

I agree with you. In addition, a political party need a certain level of wealth to be able to function. Being poor or going to church is just not enough to push people together.

If you look at the CNN data that HS has linked to, there is just no place for the Republican to go to get more votes. What can you say about an election where the Democrats receive the majority of both the Jewish vote and the Muslim vote.

Your prediction would only occur if the elite democrats would get overwhelmed by the minorities, so much so that the elites have a newfound ethnic pride, as seems the case in the deep South.

"The leadership talent pool"
The leadership will surely be inferior (more corrupt, etc.), but that will not be the obstacle. Money will be quite short, as the minorities are less interested in politics and poorer (except Asians, who could go for either party). I read on CounterPunch that Jews contribute half of the Dems campaign money and a fourth of the Republicans. Haven't confirmed that.

*When I said minorities, I did not mean to include Jews.

What can you say about an election where the Democrats receive the majority of both the Jewish vote and the Muslim vote.

Jews and Muslims in the United States probably have more in common than you'd expect.

Hmm. I see a parallel between Jews and their religion and Jews and their preferred political party.

Why do Jews continue to go to temple, when they clearly don't feel a connection to God or even believe in God.

HS's answer was guilt.

Why do Jews vote for a party that is so diametrically opposed to their own personal interests (taxes, Israel, etc.)?

Guilt.

Also fear of the Christian right. There's a long history of right-wing anti-semitism in Europe which a lot of people may have sort of subconsciously absorbed (in the sense of 'always vote for the lefty'). Additionally once the parties divide up on urban vs. rural moral values, Jews as a heavily urban population are more likely to support the Democrats' values. (Peace and social justice are moral values, even if they don't call them that.)

SFG,

To expand your idea of Jews are urban. Being Jewish and Democratic may be reinforced by the total dominance of Democrats in local elections in places like New York and Montgomery County Maryland. If you want to be involved at the local level, you have to be a Democrat.

>>Also fear of the Christian right.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but if that is true, it's a very outmoded view. Right wing christians are very pro-israel.

There has never, ever been a pogrom in the US. Never. US christians should not be tarred with the sins of Europe.

Pogroms in Europe had more to do with politics than religion. Hitler and Stalin can't be described as Christian.

Finally, the Democrat party in recent memory was the party of segregation. That didn't seem to stop Jews from being Democrats.

As for the urban/ Democrat connection, that falls apart in the near suburbs. For example, Nassau County is traditionally Republican. Jews are Democrats there.

Any way you stack it, it's pretty irrational for Jews to be Democrats. They're Democrats for historical reasons, or guilt. I can't see any other reason.

Although the Democratic Party is heavily dependent on minority voters, the agenda is set by elite educated white secular disproportionately Jewish voters.

Everybody sing along!

"Throw the Jew down the well!
So my country can be free!
You must grab him by his horns!
Then we have a big party!"

Also...

"My wife, she is scared of men with chocolate face, there won’t be any around here?"

Leo Frank got lynched, but that was a while ago.
You're right America doesn't have the same history of anti-Semitism and the Christian Right is pro-Israel. But I don't think a lot of Jewish people realize that.

What struck me about the exit polls is how many people are apparently complete idiots, like the 6% of the people who came out to support Bush and then voted Democrat or the 5% of the people who came to oppose Bush and then did it by voting Democrat.

It's also amazing that the Republicans get twice as much of the gay vote as they do of the Jewish vote. I know why Union members and trial lawyers vote Democrat, but for the life of me I can't figure out what Jews and minorities get from the Dems.

-Mercy

but for the life of me I can't figure out what Jews and minorities get from the Dems.

Really? What do people typically associate with the Democratic party - affirmative action, welfare, civil rights, union-secured jobs, a higher minimum wage... yes, why would minorities want any of that? They wouldn't mind the higher taxes the Democrats would impose because a) they believe the Democrats would be bringing them better wages to pay those taxes and b) the taxes are going into programs that filter back down to them.

>>Really? What do people typically associate with the Democratic party - affirmative action, welfare, civil rights, union-secured jobs, a higher minimum wage... yes, why would minorities want any of that?

I have to agree with you there. The Democrats are good at marketing to minorities. For example, an increase in the minimum wage from $5.15 (or whatever) to $7.25 is going to put a lot of black males on the unemployment line. But overall, it appears to be a big gain in income for the working poor. It's easier to market the message of increased incomes for the working poor than the message of increased unemployment for the least skilled.

The Democrats do a better job of promising other people's money to the lower class parasites, whereas the Republicans do a better job promising money to the upper class parasites (corporate welfare). This has led to a see-saw battle between the two parties, but I think we will soon see the ultimate strategy come out of the Democrats, which is to make everyone a parasite (socialist healthcare) and capture control for a long time.

>>whereas the Republicans do a better job promising money to the upper class parasites (corporate welfare).

I don't know about that. Inner ring, wealthy suburbs are trending Democrat. Democrats seem to be attracting more people with incomes in the $100k to $200k range.

This could have nothing to do with fiscal policies, and everything to do with culture (all those wealthy folks want to have abortion available in case their daughters become unintendedly pregnant, or maybe sophisticated suburbanites don't want to politically associate with rural whites).

Or maybe in that income range you find a lot of government workers and teachers.

"For example, an increase in the minimum wage from $5.15 (or whatever) to $7.25 is going to put a lot of black males on the unemployment line."

Nope, not true, my latest post explains why.

"Or maybe in that income range you find a lot of government workers and teachers."

A family of two government workers or two teachers definitely has a family income greater than $100K (unless they are private school teachers).

"Really? What do people typically associate with the Democratic party - affirmative action, welfare, civil rights, union-secured jobs, a higher minimum wage..."

At the risk of engaging in anti-Semitic stereotyping I don't think the minimum wage is a huge benefit for most Jews.
Otherwise you're right, of course. the thing is that every party has two constituencies, and Jews and minorities are different constituencies and get different things from each party. The Jews (along with the entertainment and high-tech industries, which overlap) give money and get protection from the Christian Right making their kids say prayers in school. (You folks have made a good point that they're wasting their money.) The minorities give votes and get affirmative action, etc.

The Republicans have two constituencies, too. They get money from corporations and votes from white red-staters.

SFG: Do corporations really give more to Republican causes? I'm under the impression corporations give more to Democrats. I do think that small business owners give more to Republicans...

Jody: "I'm under the impression corporations give more to Democrats."

Corporations will give money to whichever whore will service them.

That said, some industries favor Republicans (like pharma and oil) and some industries favor Democrats (like media and entertainment). However, overall, I think that Republicans get more business donations and Democrats more donations from rich individuals.

>>Nope, not true, my latest post explains why.

Well, the vast majority of econometric studies say that a rise in the minimum wage prices out unskilled labor.

>>A family of two government workers or two teachers definitely has a family income greater than $100K (unless they are private school teachers).

I was talking about public school teachers.

In suburban Chicago, individual teachers top out at over $100k. Superintendents make $150k, the top earner makes over $200k.

In Nassau County, in New York, with overtime, cops make over $150k.

So it is not mere speculation that at least some of those near suburban, wealthy whites who are trending Democrat are government employees. I really wonder what percentage they are.

To reinforce the idea that the Democratic Party is a party led by Jews that are supported by blacks, look at the report on the record number of Jews in Congress. There are as many Jewish Congressmen as there are blacks when blacks have 3 time the numbers in the general population.


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3326053,00.html

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