How come white men never rape black women?

I have been asked to comment on this article at FrontPage Magazine, The Truth of Interracial Rape in the United States. Dennis Mangan has a blog post about the article and the controversy.

The article was based on the stats in a U.S. Department of Justice Publication documenting crime statistics in 2005.

There were 160,270 single-offender rapes/sexual assaults reported in 2005. 48.% of the offenders were black, an impressively high total considering that blacks are only 13% of the population.

What's more interesting is when the race of the victim is compared to the race of the offender. For the 111,490 cases where the rape/sexual assault victim was white, 33.6% of the time the perceived race of the offender was black, compared to 44.5% white.

But for the 36,620 cases where the rape/sexual assuult victim was black, 100% of the time the offender was reported to be black. (And we are told that 0% means 10 or fewer reported cases, so it's possible that there have been as many as 10 cases of non-black men raping black women in 2005.)

This is a pretty strange statistic if you think about it. There were approximately 74,029 rape/sexual assaults commited by non-black men, but in no more than 10 of these cases was the victim black? What's wrong with black women that no one wants to rape them? I'd think that 2% of the time the victim would be black so there'd be 1,480 cases of non-blacks raping blacks. But in fact, this happened 10 times or less.

Because only 31.4% of rapes are committed by strangers, the best way a black woman can avoid being raped is to only know white men. (This is not likely to happen, because black women aren't romantically interested in white men.)

Comments

[Spungen]

What's wrong with black women that no one wants to rape them?

I understand you're being flippant here (and, hey, how can you help it with this zany topic!), but it actually appears that black women have substantially higher odds than white women of being raped.

[Rain And]

White men raped plenty of black women when those women were slaves. Almost all of Af-Am white admixture (20%+) is from pre-emancipation "relationships".

Nowwuhdaze they'd just get their skinny asses kicked.

[David Alexander]

Before a race war with commensurate insults and slurs are hurled out, I'd like to know if the data based on accusations or convictions?

The best hypothesis I have for the lack of white male on black woman rapes is that either black women do not report rapes by white men, or there are low conviction rapes for the white men. It may be possible rapists choose to rape women who they find more attractive.

This report makes the idea of me moving to Canada even more enticing.

[Alex]

White men raped plenty of black women when those women were slaves. Almost all of Af-Am white admixture (20%+) is from pre-emancipation "relationships".

Nowwuhdaze they'd just get their skinny asses kicked.

Aww...the little black can't handle the truth.

Auster messed up in that he didn't toe the PC line. Can't tell the truth about blacks, you know.

[Spungen]

I am puzzled as to why the DOJ paper seems to have only broken out white and black, not other races. Am I missing it?

White men apparently have no such aversion to sexually abusing Native American women. Amnesty International reported that Native American women on reservations are more than 2.5 times as likely as other U.S. women to experience sexual violence, and 86 percent of the perpetrators are not Native American.

the best way a black woman can avoid being raped is to only know white men.

You are assuming that the disparity isn't based upon lack of opportunity.

[Spungen]

It may be possible rapists choose to rape women who they find more attractive.

David, many rapes are crimes of opportunity. You might be surprised at the variety of women it happens to -- senior citizens, for example.

I've been trying unsuccessfully in this paper to find what percentage of the black crimes are committed by black men the white woman knows. I suspect very few. I suspect that's one reason there are so few white male sex crimes against black women --lack of social contact.

The second reason is probably that white men don't often burglarize or commit robberies in black areas. Therefore, they're unlikely to either stumble upon black female potential victims, or to identify such victims while "casing" a place.

Alex, Rain And has never indicated that he is black. Sensible people are often reluctant to discuss this topic for fear of being identified with racist, ignorant attitudes such as yours. I admire David for asking legitimate, intelligent questions rather than stooping to nasty personal attacks.

[Alex]

I am puzzled as to why the DOJ paper seems to have only broken out white and black, not other races. Am I missing it?

Because Hispanics are classified as white by the DOJ and the FBI.

[Alex]

Sensible people are often reluctant to discuss this topic for fear of being identified with racist, ignorant attitudes such as yours.

LOL! You are the ignorant one. You can't handle the truth, so you make endless excuses like a good little liberal. Nevermind reality. Why does that matter to a liberal like yourself?

[Rain And]

Don't feed the troll, Spungen.

[David Alexander]

Spungen, another interesting question to determine is what economic groups are raping and being raped, and where it's happening. If there's so little social contact between white men and black women to create a situation with low rapes, shouldn't there be little social contact between white women and black men?

As for the second reason, it probably makes more sense, but I'm still trying to figure out how it happens. I get strange stares when I'm going into the supermarket and I'm the only black person there, so I'd suspect that any black or Hispanic criminal would stand out like a sore thumb in many areas given the de facto segregation that exists in most areas.

[Spungen]

If there's so little social contact between white men and black women to create a situation with low rapes, shouldn't there be little social contact between white women and black men?

Hence my theory that the black-on-white sex crimes are mainly stranger crimes.

[Spungen]

so I'd suspect that any black or Hispanic criminal would stand out like a sore thumb in many areas given the de facto segregation that exists in most areas.

Hispanics can go anywhere, people assume they're workers.

Most of these crimes don't happen in upscale single-family-home communities. They happen in more densely populated areas, poorer neighborhoods, often in multifamily housing. It's easier for criminals to get around unnoticed. Even in nicer neighborhoods, a man can often pass unnoticed if he dresses like a repairman or a salesman.

Not all blacks live in majority-black areas, but most seem to. Of the black potential sex crime victims, I'd bet most live in majority-black areas and date/hang around mostly black men.

[Spungen]

Hey. I wonder if black unemployment means in black areas, more black guys are likely to be hanging around home during the day. And up at night. Maybe that would make an area less attractive to outsiders looking to commit crimes.

Nicer neighborhoods don't have many men around during the daytime, and residents tend to be sleeping at night.

I wonder how many black people get robbed or burglarized by white people? I bet not many.

[David Alexander]

Hispanics can go anywhere, people assume they're workers.

Yes, but remember, here on the East Coast, there's a large contingent of Hispanics who look like David, and in a few cases, people have thought that I was Hispanic until informed them otherwise.

They happen in more densely populated areas, poorer neighborhoods, often in multifamily housing. It's easier for criminals to get around unnoticed.

Again, those are mostly black and Hispanic neighbourhoods. Whites tend not to live in those types of areas in the Northeast, especially here in New York, but it may not be true in other locales. Now, if what Alex said is true about Hispanics falling under the classification of white, are rapes of a dark skinned black Latina classified as the rape of a white woman?

Even in nicer neighborhoods, a man can often pass unnoticed if he dresses like a repairman or a salesman.

The question to ask is if most rapists who were convicted bother to go thru that effort to go rape a woman.

Of the black potential sex crime victims, I'd bet most live in majority-black areas and date/hang around mostly black men.

The question du jour is who are these women dating and hanging around black men? Mind you, if they know black men, then it's no longer stranger rape, especially if they don't live in the area. It might actually back up the theory that the white women who are with black men for these purposes are Puerto Rican and Dominican women who are of African ancestry and share neighbourhoods with blacks, but according to the government are considered white.

It would be also interesting to see who the stereotypical rapist is regardless of race. I suspect that it's not men like Maitre Sigma or even a lowly DA, but the same culprit for many crimes, low IQ, unemployed (or barely working) male with no educational attainment in poor social circumstances.

[Spungen]

The question to ask is if most rapists who were convicted bother to go thru that effort to go rape a woman.

Dude, I'm not saying they commission a Maytag costume. Just carry a clipboard and wear a white shirt, or carry a rake and wear a baseball cap.

The question du jour is who are these women dating and hanging around black men? Mind you, if they know black men, then it's no longer stranger rape, especially if they don't live in the area.

Let me make sure I've set forth my theory correctly: Black/black includes many acquaintance crimes. White/white includes many acquaintance crimes. Black/white doesn't.

I suspect that it's ... the same culprit for many crimes, low IQ, unemployed (or barely working) male with no educational attainment in poor social circumstances.

At least for stranger crimes, that seems to jibe with what I've read. It makes sense, too -- burglars and robbers would be the ones with the criminal expertise and opportunity, and they're usually not smart educated guys.

There are some serial types; their profile might be a little different. Also the ones who pick acquaintances, because there's no breaking/entry or weapons involved (usually).

[David Alexander]

I wonder how many black people get robbed or burglarized by white people? I bet not many.

It's probably very low, especially if you go with traditional notions of "whites". There's the theory that black people don't have anything worth robbing in their homes, and that black people will fight back if attacked. Plus, the market for robbery in a black neighbourhood is small given that admittedly, black people are already fulfilling that role.

As for black male unemployment, remember when HS mentioned the people hanging out in front of the stoop or corner? These men aren't at home in some cases, but at various locales in the community "hanging out" or "hustlin'" especially in the case of younger men.

If an outsider is white, he'll stick out like a sore thumb in many cases, and there would be a lot of scrutiny on that person and their actions by the locals, but if the outsider is black, most people wouldn't notice especially in denser environments.

[Spungen]

It may be possible rapists choose to rape women who they find more attractive.

Oh, and David, white guys get busted all the time for picking up black prostitutes. So it's probably not that.

And when I worked at a bookstore, white guys bought those black centerfold magazines as often as black guys did. So HS isn't so unusual.

[rater]

Steve Sailer has had an explanation for this phenomena for years on his website:

http://www.isteve.com/IsLoveColorblind.htm

But anyhow the 0% figure is unbelievably stunning.

[APH]

Tawana Brawley, the Duke lacrosse players...oh wait, those rapes never happened...

[APH]

^ man am i dumbass, i should have read the article first..but here's my 2 cents that explains why the stat is so skewed:

Growing up in a home without a father makes a boy much more likely to be a rapist.

Too lazy to do the research, but it makes an awful lot of sense. Doesn't fully explain the disparity in the rape stats, but perhaps in combination with other factors listed above...

[Tex]

It would be also interesting to see who the stereotypical rapist is regardless of race. I suspect that it's not men like Maitre Sigma or even a lowly DA, but the same culprit for many crimes, low IQ, unemployed (or barely working) male with no educational attainment in poor social circumstances.

Wilson and Herrnstein examine some of the characteristic of criminals in their book Crime and Human Nature. Inmates are more likely to be muscular than either skinny or chubby. Inmates are more likely to be extroverts than introverts. Extroversion and muscularity are both associated with higher levels of testosterone. It should come as no surprise that inmates are more likely to report a higher number of lifetime sex partners than non-inmates of the same age.

Delinquents are more likely to favor a shorter time horizon when making decisions.

At an average IQ of about 92, inmates have a lower average IQ than non-inmates. Some of this may be due to selection bias. Criminals are likely to select different kinds of crimes depending on their level of IQ. Higher IQ criminals are more likely to gravitate toward crimes such as embezzlement and forgery. Lower IQ criminals are more likely to gravitate toward crimes such as assault and robbery. If we take measures of cognitive ability and divide them into the domains of verbal and non-verbal ability, inmates are more likely to score lower on tests of verbal than non-verbal ability.

The book has a variety of chapters on other characteristics such as age, gender, family background, schooling, labor markets, drugs, and television.

Unfortunately the book does not profile criminals by type of crime. But it is safe to say that the sort of people who are unlikely to be rapists are abstemious, skinny-or-chubby, bookish introverts with 401ks and from stable, intact families.

[Peter]

It would be also interesting to see who the stereotypical rapist is regardless of race. I suspect that it's not men like Maitre Sigma or even a lowly DA, but the same culprit for many crimes, low IQ, unemployed (or barely working) male with no educational attainment in poor social circumstances.

Going back on the criminals I encountered when working as a criminal courts clerk (in Connecticut, 1991-93), I would have to say that the rapists and other sex offenders were by and large at the very, very bottom of the socioeconomic scale. And probably the IQ scale too. You'd occasionally encounter a middle-class citizen who'd gotten involved with drugs, or an otherwise respectable working-class man who'd rearranged someone's face in a barroom brawl, but with few exceptions the sex offenders were from the lumpen end of the lumpenproletariat.

Getting back to the original question, namely the almost complete lack of white-on-black rapes, I'd think that the biggest factor is the usual lack of any social interaction between white men and black women, which makes date rape and acquaintance rape situations unlikely. Also, and I know I'm treading on somewhat dangerous ground here, the physical differences between the races may make forcible rapes less likely. It's long been documented that blacks have relatively less body fat and more muscle tissue than similarly sized whites. This is one factor (though certainly not the only one) which contributes to black athletic success, and more to the point exists in both genders. What this means is that a would-be white rapist is likely to find white women easier to overpower than black women.

"If an outsider is white, he'll stick out like a sore thumb in many cases, and there would be a lot of scrutiny on that person and their actions by the locals, but if the outsider is black, most people wouldn't notice especially in denser environments."

Very true. I used to live in Elizabeth and when I moved to Harrison i simply drove through Newark. I was stopped at a light and noticed a white guy. Man was he out of place. He looked real nervous too and his eyes kept darting around. I have no doubt he was there to buy drugs. If I was a cop, I would have grabbed hime right there. And when I lived in Philadelphia, I used to go running. Took a wrong turn and whoops! right though public housing I really stood out. Some black people looked at me like I was from another planet, but nobody did or said a thing. Everybody probably though I was just some crazy white fitness freak.

[trumwill]

One possibility that comes to mind is that the rapist is worried about reprisals if he rapes a black woman. Black women have black brothers, black boyfriends, and so on. It wouldn't surprise me if a number of white rapists had racial attitudes that suggested that they might get killed for raping a black girl before the law even gets to them.

[Funny but true]

It's those long nails. Too dangerous.

[Dave]

I think Peter and Funny are onto something.

Black women might appear to be too difficult a target for a white rapist. Maybe he figures they'd be too tough, too loud, fight back too much.

Or maybe white-on-black rape is just not reported. You know how white guys have small weiners? Maybe the black chicks don't even know they're getting raped!

[Dave]

I think Peter and Funny are onto something.

Black women might appear to be too difficult a target for a white rapist. Maybe he figures they'd be too tough, too loud, fight back too much.

Or maybe white-on-black rape is just not reported.

[Dave]

I think Peter and Funny are onto something.

Black women might appear to be too difficult a target for a white rapist. Maybe he figures they'd be too tough, too loud, fight back too much.

Or maybe white-on-black rape is just not reported. You know how white guys have small weiners? Maybe the black chicks don't even know they're getting raped!

[ieatspam]

Dave,

Your first comment - funny. Second comment, not as funny. But your third comment - funny again!

[Turambar]

Wow Spungen is out of the block fast on this one.

Anyway, cant we all just stop a minute and give plaudits to the white man? No asterix, no waffling, just a moment of sober reflection on the laudable behavior of white men.

Where would white women come in social contact with black men? Seriously? Clubs, parties etc. The black 'player' types (looking at you DA! ;-) are all over the women there. The girls feel reluctant to totally blow them off because that seems vaguely racist. Plus blacks seem more dangerous and some girls are into that. Blacks also form an important part of the drug distribution system so girls come into social contact, not always in safe conditions, with them there.

I think your Maytag theory doesnt hold up. In burglary, they just get an idea of target houses, drive into the neighborhood, slip into the landscaping and force entry from an unobserved location. In in 5 minutes. They dont need this elaborate ruse of dressing like Carlton from "The Fresh Prince of Bel Air"

[The Engineer]

White guys don't date black women. If most rapes are "acquaintance rapes", well, very few white men are acquainted with black women.

[Peter]

But wait!

There a thread on this issue at 2 Blowhards, and one comment puts a very different spin on the whole story:

Basically the survey doesn't say there were 10 or fewer white (which includes hispanics) on black rape/sexual assaults/attempted sexual assaults in the entire country, it means there were 10 or fewer reported by the survey respondents. And "attempted sexual assault" is a notoriously vague category that can literally include anything (according to the survey it can include "verbal assaults").

One gentleman ran the numbers for 10 years of the survey and came up with the following: "Each year, for every 100,000 white females, about 25 are raped by black men; for every 100,000 black females, about 16 are raped by white men." Given that there are about 8 times as many white men, this gives us a black/white rape/sexual assault/drunken comment ratio of 25/1.

If you assume, as I do (although I can't justify it), that white women are more likely to consider things like being taken advantage of while drunk to be the same as being raped, the black/white ratio might very well be in the 8/1 - 10/1 range found in interracial crimes such as murder, armed robbery or aggravated assault. This seems more believable than 3500/1.

In other words, things may not be quite as extreme as they first appear.

Maybe white guys (white rapists included) just don't dig black women. If white guys wanted to have social contact with black women for whatever reason, I can't imagine it would be all that hard in the NYC area if white guys really wanted to. There are pelnty of nightspots all over the place. Black raspists also have a relatively easier time stalking a white victim, because they can have a plausible reason for being in any neighborhood at any given time. These days to point out a suspicious looking black guy could be evidence of racism. There is nothing worse than racism as we are constantly told. It is a mortal sin for a secular, PC age. If I am right, I can also recall Malcolm Gladwell's book exhorting us not to trust our instincts, as they could be wrong. I wonder how many white women believed that and suffered for it?

[David Alexander]

The black 'player' types (looking at you DA! ;-) are all over the women there.

So for every DA who's afraid to touch a white girl for fear of a rape charge, there's a black guy who's chasing after multiple white women?

I don't think the women are afraid to blow them off because of racism. God knows how many women that I've met wouldn't touch a black man with a ten foot pole. Plus, like many people have said, given that Hispanics count as white, the Puerto Rican and Dominican girl hanging around a black guy is considered a black-white relationship according to the government even if the Latina is dark-skinned.*

Blacks also form an important part of the drug distribution system so girls come into social contact, not always in safe conditions, with them there.

I always thought that the white males buy drugs for their girlfriends as going to the dangerous areas for the harder drugs. I remember reading something that even pointed out that women are more likely to abuse prescription drugs since it's easier for women to coax their doctors out prescriptions than to go to your garden variety bad area.

[Gannon]

If you look at international rape statistics
it's impossible not to notcie that rape is essentially about gaining access to attractive females. Pretty much all rapes happen to females aged between 12-40 years old. While we all have heard about the raping of a grandmother, rape outside these
age groups are very rare. If you look closer at the data, it becomes obvious that even in that age group (12-40) most rapes happen in the 14-27 years old age category, peaking at around 17, from which you could deduce that a woman is at her most attractive and fertile at around 17, and her general peak is at around 14-27, which coincidentally are also her most fertile and productive childbearing years. Feminist will say that rape is about power, which is simply not true, because raping athletic twenty year olds is much more difficult than somewhat frail menopausic fortysomething women. Raping is simply an inmoral (and ilegal) way to copulate with attractive females who are otherwise unattainable for the rapist. And maybe here we can find the most logical explanation why so few white men rape black women, that is lots of black (even underage)women are available to white men through prostitution, hence the need for rape is very low.

[Turambar]

So for every DA who's afraid to touch a white girl for fear of a rape charge, there's a black guy who's chasing after multiple white women?

Yes, multiple. Its a refutation to the question of how white girls come in contact with black men. They go to the same party spots and the black guys talk to women. I know very few white guys who want to dance anyway, so this works out well.

Peter: Nice spinning of 0.0.

[David Alexander]

These days to point out a suspicious looking black guy could be evidence of racism

Just because one doesn't openly point out a suspicious looking black guy doesn't mean that you don't act on your suspicions or fears. God knows how many dirty looks I've gotten so far in the past 6 months driving around my neighbourhood or whenever I go to the nearly-white supermarket.

They go to the same party spots and the black guys talk to women.

I'd hazard a guess that the white women who tend to go to such party spots tend to be white girls who grew up with black people, and thus, are black women that are better looking without the "nasty habits" of black women.*

Interestingly, I'm amazed that there aren't more black men who are afraid to get into relationships with white women.

*Allegedly, I've heard that Jewish women tend to be rather domineering like black women, and that many Jewish women have curly hair that's similar to the texture of black women's hair. Maybe HS likes black women because they're like Jewish women, but "exotic".

[Half Sigma]

many Jewish women have curly hair that's similar to the texture of black women's hair

It's called a "Jew-fro" (that term is probably considered racist, but I didn't make it up).

Maybe HS likes black women because they're like Jewish women

No, I don't think that black women and Jewish women are much alike.

[Alex]

Plus, like many people have said, given that Hispanics count as white, the Puerto Rican and Dominican girl hanging around a black guy is considered a black-white relationship according to the government even if the Latina is dark-skinned.*

The problem with this theory is that an overwhelming majority of Hispanics are not black. Puerto Ricans and Dominicans are a small percentage of the total Hispanic population.

[Wilson]

Hey, hold on. Before we start a race war here, look at the data for other years. They are VERY different from 2005. For example, in 2004 only 8.3% of white rape victims were assaulted by black men. And that 8.3% has a star after it meaning it was based on fewer than 10 cases. Then in 2002, it says 13.1% of white rape victims were assaulted by blacks, but 14.2% of black rape victims were assaulted by whites.

Go here: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/cvusst.htm
and look under "Victims and Offenders". There are pdfs for each year from 1996 through 2005. The table you're looking for seems to be Table 42 in all reports.

I think what is happening here is that interracial rape is not very common. These tables are just statistical noise.

[Tex]

I've been trying unsuccessfully in this paper to find what percentage of the black crimes are committed by black men the white woman knows. I suspect very few. I suspect that's one reason there are so few white male sex crimes against black women --lack of social contact.

To prove this, you would need to look at areas where there is social contact between white males and black females (the armed services? the entertainment industry?) and see if the level of rape is higher.

[Jim Beam]

Never mind the rape phenomenon. How come the ones who are always screwing around in the many computer labs at my university are the black kids?

(There's barely any Latinos at my school and the Asians and the Middle-Easterners are studious machines.)

Yes, there are white people who screw around as well, but the majority of the instances where people call to complain about noise levels and not being able to concentrate always involve the black kids?

[Rain And]

Hard to find scientific articles about this. In contrast to Auster's amateurishness this article concludes that black men prefer black victims:

Using data on 1,396 rapes reported in the National Crime Survey, we examine various explanations for interracial (black offender-white victim) rape. We find little support for the hypothesis, derived from conflict theory, that interracial rape reflects black economic deprivation and politicalization. Interracial, as opposed to intraracial, rapes were no more frequent in cities with high black poverty, unemployment, or racial inequality. Nor does interracial rape appear to result from blacks' limited sexual to white women; we do not find the expected relationship between a city's interracial marriage rate and the racial composition of rape. Rather, in support of Blau's macrostructural theory, the racial patterning of rape is most strongly influenced by opportunities for interpersonal contact between whites and blacks. Both the racial composition of a city, representing the pool
of rape victims or offenders of a particular race, and the degree of black-white residential segregation emerged as significant predictors of the racial patterning of rape. Finally, we find no evidence that black rapists, given equivalent opportunities to rape a white or a black woman, prefer white victims. In fact, during the course of robberies involving strangers, black men are slightly more likely to rape a black woman than a white woman.

[Loki on the run]

Spungen says:

David, many rapes are crimes of opportunity. You might be surprised at the variety of women it happens to -- senior citizens, for example.

Would you like to provide the actual figures for women older than 50 who are raped so we can compare it with the number of women in their prime childbearing age who are raped?

While you are at it, can you give us an age breakdown for the perps?

[Rain And]

Other facts from the article:

1972-1975 NCS self-report (N)

black on black: 32.74% (457)
black on white: 23.06% (322)
white on white: 44.20% (617)
white on black: xxxxxx (20)

- black on white rape no more violent or likely to use weapon than black on black

- " " no more likely gang rape than black on black

- " " more likely to be strangers than white on white/black on black

- " " more likely to occur away from victim's home than white on white/black on black

- " " more likely at night than white on white/black on black

[Turambar]

Hard to find scientific articles about this. In contrast to Auster's amateurishness this article concludes that black men prefer black victims:

Ah, that wasnt the point. Its that white men vastly dis-prefer black women as rape targets. Sailer makes a valid case that white men *would* come in contact with black women in a variety of settings at a greater rate than they would black men- black women are more likely to go college, work in offices or as waitresses.

So lets assume that its not lack of opportunity, or any other weasel. I find it easy to believe that most white men do not find the majority of black women attractive. How does the post-Imus society view this racism, and do we need a diversity program to try to promote black pulchritude? Or should Jesse Jackson be picketing for more interracial couples on primetime tv (and not hot Asians, thank you very much).

[APH]

I would like to know the average weight (or better - height and weight) of the rape victim.

http://www.halls.md/chart/women-weight-w.htm

That's for white women, it shows an average weight of 130lbs for 25 yr olds..

Can't find a stat for black women, but this source: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:HYTEcSu3l_4J:www.ppic.org/content/pubs/rb/RB_906HLRB.pdf+average+BMI+by+race&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

shows a 14 to 19 lb difference between the average white women and black women, depending on height...

If the average rape victim is smaller and frailer than the average white women, there will be an even small number of black women that will be good candidates for rape...Good luck on trying to get the weight of the avg. weight victim - I tried, and got nothing, and probably Google tracked my IP to send to the feds...

[Half Sigma]

The 2005 data does show that black men have a solid preference for raping black women over white women, but that's hardly surprising given that black men will know more black women than white women, and rapists usually rape women they know.

Similarly, it's not suprising that white men have a preference for raping white women. What's completely shocking is that white men raping black women NEVER HAPPENS AT ALL. At least if those stats are to be believed.

[Rain And]

Ah, that wasnt the point.

Yes, it was the point of Auster's article that black men are selectively targeting white females:

There is never the slightest mention of the fact that white women in this country are being targeted by black rapists. In the inverted world of liberalism, the phenomenon does not exist.

And data from Internet matching and speed dating experiments show that there are far fewer white men/black women couples because black women disproportionately disfavor white males, not the other way around. (same with Asian males/white females)

[Rain And]

What's completely shocking is that white men raping black women NEVER HAPPENS AT ALL

This is false. It happens much less than the reverse, largely (but not entirely) because blacks are a minority, and white men are much less criminal. But it happens. (see Peter's comment, or look at multiple years in the crime data - it fluctuates)

Also, as I pointed out in my first comment, American blacks are 20%+ white almost entirely because, at least in the past, white men raped plenty of black women.

[li]

Not quite. Did it ever occur to anyone that black women willingly slept with white men in the past because they were high status? Even on the ol' plantation? My guess is that white men slept with more black women in the past because there were more single white men immigrants in the past than there were white women. So more of them married indian and black women.

Look, white guys don't find black women attractive, and that's pretty much it. There are lots of black women who would like to go out with white men, all talk to the contrary, but they don't and won't get asked out. People commit crime to take what they want and can't get. Don't believe for one minute that rape isn't about sex, but about power. If it were, women would be beaten and not raped. It about sex. And the numbers tell us what the story is. We all know the truth anyway, don't we?

[APH]

addendum to my post: there is in fact a link on the same page as the first, with average weight sizes of women:

Again here's the link for white women:
http://www.halls.md/chart/women-weight-w.htm

the link for black women:
http://www.halls.md/on/women-weight-b.htm

Googling for average age of rape victims yields a range between 18 and 22 - If we take age 20 to be average,

the average white 20 yo women is: 127 lbs
the average black 20 yo women is: 143 lbs

Average weight of rape victim? ?????

[AS]

Rapes by white men of Asian women are nearly nonexistent as well. But from what I can see around me, many white men are very attracted to Asian women & enter into interracial relationships with them quite frequently.

In light of this, I don't "white men aren't attracted to black women" explains these statistics.

[Rain And]

Look, white guys don't find black women attractive, and that's pretty much it. There are lots of black women who would like to go out with white men, all talk to the contrary, but they don't and won't get asked out

No, this is pure bullshit. The opposite is more true. Seriously try looking at some of the literature instead of talking out of your ass. There are controlled ways of looking at this behavior, and you are wrong.

You're not even right about rape. Read the paper I quoted in my previous comment, where the preferential racial targeting hypotheisis is tested. The authors looked at hundreds of white on black rapes, and found that in robbery situations, both blacks and whites were more likely to rape black victims than white victims. So if anything, the best evidence we have shows that both white men and black prefer to rape black women given the opportunity.

And, sorry, slaves can't have consensual sex with the men that own them. Christ. Stupidity.

"No, this is pure bullshit. The opposite is more true. Seriously try looking at some of the literature instead of talking out of your ass. There are controlled ways of looking at this behavior, and you are wrong."

Consider “Racial Preferences in Dating,” a study of more than 400 graduate and professional students who participated in speed dating sessions at Columbia University ...

Would you care to list the way in which black graduate students at Columbia might not mirror the general population?

"Rapes by white men of Asian women are nearly nonexistent as well. But from what I can see around me, many white men are very attracted to Asian women & enter into interracial relationships with them quite frequently."

There are three times as many blacks as Asians, and they are not distributed as well. In many areas where the survey was conducted there would have been very few asians. The study followed groups across 7 years so we would have been talking about population levels in '98. And are there an equal number of females as males?

There are also a number of other factors to consider- such as young asian women often being in the physical presence of there extended family at family owned business that offer additional protection and their avoidance of a lot of social situation that other young people would put themselves in. The stereotype of only asian kids being in the library on Friday nights is not without a basis.

You could also speculate on the greater reticence of asians to report the crimes.

[Spungen]

Thanks for the useful abstract, Rain And. I can't get the whole paper. It appears to have information about how often weapons are used in these crimes, could you share that? And is there anything about how often women suffer physical injury (other than the sexual assault itself)?

[Ian]

My understanding of it: to survive the ice ages, Europeans and NorthEast Asians had to work more cooperatively and with more patience than those humans who remained in the tropics. So they evolved towards less aggression impulsiveness and testosterone, more cooperative and patient "femininity". Ergo, blacks are more masculine (men who have, on average, higher testosterone and other biomarkers of masculinity (muscularity, sports abilities, etc) and who are also generally more raping-prone, and women who are, on average, more masculine too, which means not attractive targets for rape both because they will kick your ass but also because they are not as attractive (feminine) as white or North East Asian women). White people, on the other hand, are more feminine - less likely to rape, more attractive targets for rape. East Asians are even more feminine (even lower average testosterone levels), and, if they constituted say 15% of the US population, would probably be on the other side of white folks on both the raped/raping sides of the equations.

Also, in the (liberal big) city that I live in, many many white women go out with black guys. I see it in bars, I see it on the street, I see it in many women I’ve had as housemates, I’ve heard about it from friends and women I’ve dated. If a black guy has a degree and a job, it’s like he’s a 6’1” successful lawyer. I see it as often a phase white women go through - they like the thrill of it, the sexual excitement of it, it helps them to feel moral and doing their part to end racism. Many of them, after some time, though, seem to decide that black guys play too rough and loose. So a number of friends have me.

Also, as I pointed out in my first comment, American blacks are 20%+ white almost entirely because, at least in the past, white men raped plenty of black women.

So not only can today's white men not get credit from you for our deportment re black women, you want to blame us for something that happened 10 generations ago, and probably before most of our progenitors were even in this country??

I dont see the logic, if there is any.

[Avi]

It's obvious none of you have a black friend.

Black women *on average* will choose to date anyone: latino, indian, arab, iranian - over whites (except asian). It's because they think white men just fetishize and objectify them, and they still think about slave plantation owners who raped their slaves. Let's take an attractive mulatto woman in hollywood - halle berry. It's only now, after her bad experience with her black husband, is she dating white. Beyonce is dating Jay-Z, when she could, if she had wanted, dated a white guy.

[AS]

East Asian women are nearly as unlikely to be raped by white men as black women are. However feminine they are, East Asian women are not targets for white men. For whatever reason, rapists mostly stick to their own kind.

[Avi]

"For whatever reason, rapists mostly stick to their own kind."

Well said.

[Rain And]

Would you care to list the way in which black graduate students at Columbia might not mirror the general population?

The other study had all education and economic levels. There are more papers, similar findings. You need to do your own research.

So not only can today's white men not get credit from you for our deportment re black women, you want to blame us for something that happened 10 generations ago

That fact was to fatally disprove an assertion, not to "blame" anyone. Also if you haven't raped any black women, I congratulate you for your manners and forbearance.

It appears to have information about how often weapons are used in these crimes, could you share that? And is there anything about how often women suffer physical injury (other than the sexual assault itself)

Spungen, the paper didn't list these numbers, no.

[Turambar]

My understanding of it: to survive the ice ages, Europeans and NorthEast Asians had to work more cooperatively and with more patience than those humans who remained in the tropics

An appeal to evolution? Way, way too tortured.

If you look at table 54 you can see that this is a strictly Urban black female problem. Out of a Urban population of 8,041,410 they project a rate of about 50,000 rape/assaults.

There are in the Suburban and Rural 8,013,630 black females and no projected rapes/assaults.

It would seem that the black urban culture is unhealthy. Its Thugg Life and Ice Cube and not ice age.

BTW- I'd eye ball the black male suburban/rural population at about 6.5M. Its remarkable that they are not committing any rapes that show up, unless they are traveling into the city to do so. It confirms my theory (which is Sowells) that what needs to be addressed is the breakdown of black culture.

[Ian]

It would seem that the black urban culture is unhealthy. Its Thugg Life and Ice Cube and not ice age.

Problem with that is that is that black/white violent crime rate disparities that we see today have been pretty much the same as far back as the USA has kept breakdowns, which is to back to before the emancipation proclamation.

And African-American culture has many similarities with African cultures (de facto polygamy/polyamory, absent father, more emphasis on extended family than white cultures, generally more easy going and “laid back” than white cultures but with more violence as conflict resolution than white cultures), which also suggests to me a genetic component.

The biomarkers of heightened afro-masculinity (testosterone levels, percent body fat/muscle stats, prostate cancer rates), both in the mother continent and in diaspora, are also probably not a function of “urban culture”.

An appeal to evolution? Way, way too tortured.

Only if you haven’t studied it much. Once you have, it all fits together pretty neatly. :)

[David Alexander]

Black women *on average* will choose to date anyone: latino, indian, arab, iranian - over whites (except asian).

I always bring up my grandmother's grandchildren as anecdotal evidence of trends, but they're relatively useful for explaining trends.

Of my grandmother's four granddaughters, only one has dated white men, and that's because she grew up with a mother who de facto forced her into dating white men. The other three are either in a half-ass excuse for a relationship, dating reject men, or staying single in hopes of finding a man. In contrast, her grandsons have no problems dating outside of the race.

[Turambar]

"Only if you haven’t studied it much. Once you have, it all fits together pretty neatly. :)"

Then explain why the same bio-markers in the suburbs dont lead to rape like they do in the urban areas.

"The other study had all education and economic levels. There are more papers, similar findings. You need to do your own research."

Ok, I say that the Columbia University study is without value. Out of a population of 400 you have how many black females? 20? And they are probably disproportionate Black Studies/Women Studies majors and hence have a vested interest in ethnic pride. They are not representative.

I also am not enamored of the on-line dating study. It was conducted in only two urban centers, Boston and San Diego, and the percentage of black female respondents was tiny- I'd estimate 2.3%. The tip off that we are dealing with small numbers is this idea that it would take an extra $220K of income to get these women to date a white guy. Plus is this really proving what you think it is?
This stated ethnicity preference also varies across users of different ethnic backgrounds (Figure 5.9). For example, among Caucasians, 49% of all women and 22% of men declare a preference for Caucasian mates. On the other hand, only 30% of black women and 8% of black men state a preference for their own ethnicity.

[Avi]

If they were no east asians in america right now, white men would feel pretty feminine next to black men, according to the posts in this blog anyway. Do white men really feel *so feminized* by black men? I never got the whole feminine/masculine dichotomy. Can't men of the same race be masculine and women be feminine?

Maybe it's because I am young, but not a lot of people my age, at least, share these assumptions.

Ok, I looked in the Columbia study and there are 25 blacks *total*. This is what gets published in the New York Times- the opinions of maybe 15 or 16 black females extrapolated out to the entire population. And they forgot to mention the 141 "yeses" for the black women selecting white men to date again. This is verses the 9 "yeses" the tiny black male population got.

If this is suppose to show that black women wont date white men its failing.

[Rain And]

There were enough black women in the online study (250ish) to provide statistically significant findings. The income finding is legitimate, not evidence of low p values. Black women are as heavily biased against white males as white females are against Asian males.

A purpose of the study was to show revealed preferences as opposed to stated color blindness. Black women were more likely to ignore contacts from white men than any gender was to ignore contacts from any race. (They were also the most ethnocentric in general mate preferences) White men were about as likely to ignore contacts from black women as they were Asian women, or black men were to ignore white women.

The evidence from these studies and others on sex differences and race differences in partner choices suggest that the disproportionate lack of black females/white males among interracial couples is largely due to the preferences of black females.

[Spungen]

It appears to have information about how often weapons are used in these crimes, could you share that? And is there anything about how often women suffer physical injury (other than the sexual assault itself)

Spungen, the paper didn't list these numbers, no.

Huh, I figured it would have that because it had this:

black on white rape no more violent or likely to use weapon than black on black

Someone further back in the thread postulated the explanation that black women are less likely to consider something a sexual assault than are white women. If this were true, then we wouldn't expect the overall rate of sexual assaults upon black women to be so much higher than that of white women. Unless there's some reason black women would underreport only as to white men.

[Gannon]

I also think that during slavery most sex between white owners and black females was
de facto consentual. In Latinamerica a lot of men sleep with their maids, and it 's consensual. (therefore most wifes only want to hire maids between 35-50), preferably ugly, young enough to work but old enough not to be deemed attractive.
And don't give me the technicality that slaves couln't consent, if you use that logic you could also say that black women weren't raped because slaves were objects and not subjects for the law, and objects can not be raped, meaning that only persons can be raped and blacks were black slaves were not persons according to the law at that time.

[Gannon]

"My understanding of it: to survive the ice ages, Europeans and NorthEast Asians had to work more cooperatively and with more patience than those humans who remained in the tropics"

This is however a pretty good explanation for
average IQ differences between races. And people with higher IQ are probably a lot less likely to rape, being rape an animalistic instinct (as opposed to reason).
Is there any correlation between IQ and willingness to rape? I can't imagine a nerd raping a woman.

[Gannon]

Seriously, science can produce unpopular opinions, but on the internet you can express your opinions without neagtive consequences on your social life. In real life, moderation is key (I'm advocating moderation, not outright hipocresy).

[Peter]

If they were no east asians in america right now, white men would feel pretty feminine next to black men, according to the posts in this blog anyway. Do white men really feel *so feminized* by black men?

"Feminized" is probably too strong a word, but it's certainly my impression that many white men are jealous of the superior athletic ability of black men. Anyone who follows sports even casually will be aware that many sports are disproportionately black. The NBA is about 80% black, and the NFL not far behind at about 70% to 75%. MLB has a much lower black percentage, about 10% if you count only African Americans and around 30% if you include dark-skinned Latins, but then again baseball requires less raw athleticism than basketball or football.

[David Alexander]

In Latinamerica a lot of men sleep with their maids

I don't think it's exactly consensual in many cases. Given that there's a possibility of your employer firing you and possibly creating a situation where you're unable to find employment with the other rich people in that area, most women will go along with the affair and hope for some side benefit (e.g. extra money or special treatment for her children and related family members). In the case of slaves, given that their owners could beat the crap out of their slaves for any indiscretion, the women went along with what the slave owners did.

Someone further back in the thread postulated the explanation that black women are less likely to consider something a sexual assault than are white women.

The question to ask next is why do black women interpret certain acts differently than white women would. It's almost as if white women are more sensitive than their black counterparts.

"Feminized" is probably too strong a word, but it's certainly my impression that many white men are jealous of the superior athletic ability of black men.

I don't see why they'd be jealous. It's not as if physical strength is of my use these days and that every black guy is making petro-dollars in some major league sport. God cursed the dark skinned folks of the world with useless skills and talents...

[Half Sigma]

I edited out some personal insults from some comments above. Please try to keep things civil. Thank you.

I also think that during slavery most sex between white owners and black females was
de facto consentual.

Gannon: That's incorrect, which you'd know if you had actually read the work of any historian (Berlin, Blackburn, Davis,etc.) that has chronicled that era. If you're going to throw out statements like that, you need to cite a source. That you "think" something about the slave era is true based on the behavior of Latin American maids circa 2007 is not what you would call a legitimate source.

[Gannon]

"Gannon: That's incorrect, which you'd know if you had actually read the work of any historian (Berlin, Blackburn, Davis,etc.) that has chronicled that era. If you're going to throw out statements like that, you need to cite a source. That you "think" something about the slave era is true based on the behavior of Latin American maids circa 2007 is not what you would call a legitimate source."

Well, it's just an analogy. But humans are not monsters and sexual attraction is natural. Obviously probably a lot of black women were raped, I won't deny that. But I suspect that most sex was de facto consentual, and probably most women didn't think it was that much of a big deal that her owner wanted sex. They might not have wanted it, but didn't think it was a big deal. I will use another Latinamerican analogy. If you ever read "La casa de los espíritus" form Isabel Allende, you might recall that the owner of the latifundio used to ride out on his horse and "take" the daughters of his siervos (peasants). It's not that the daugthers of the peasants really wanted the sex, but they didn't really resist and expected it anyway. So I assume that was probably the same way it happened in the U.S. When the slaveowner demanded sex of them they probably just did let it happen and didn't think much of it, as they probably expected it anyway.

Gannon: You can "suspect" whatever you'd like about female slaves "probably" not "thinking much of the fact" that they couldn't refuse sex from their owner.

The fact is that your suspicions/assumptions run contrary to the historical record, written by authors who did their research & deal in facts, and to female slave narratives (and black male narratives as well - as you can imagine -or maybe not - male slaves did think much of the fact that they were unable to protect their wives & daughters from this).

By the way, the Latin American system Isabel Allende wrote about in her trilogy differed in many important ways from the slave system in the U.S. There are many books comparing the two systems out there. Maybe you should read one of those too - that way, your comments will be based in facts rather than your own assumptions.

[Avi]

Gannon, you are digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole. Please stop embarassing yourself by postulating *what might the women be thinking* when you are neither a woman nor a slave/peasant. If your assertions are backed by data, other than a novel based in Latin America - your opinion might be valuable but right now you are just hypothezing with no data to back your assertions.

"But I suspect that most sex was de facto consentual, and probably most women didn't think it was that much of a big deal that her owner wanted sex."

I suspect that you have no idea of what the opposite gender wants if you think that unwanted sexual advances by a master/owner is welcome or consensual.

[Turambar]

So if its not "most" as Gannon claimed, what percentage was consentual?

[Half Sigma]

Gannon's theory sounds reasonable to me. As repugnant as the modern American might find the institution of slavery, it's what the people who grew up as slaves viewed as normal.

The highest status male on a plantation would be the slave owner, so sociobiology teaches us that the slave owner would be the most highly desired sex partner.

[Spungen]

I suspect that you have no idea of what the opposite gender wants if you think that unwanted sexual advances by a master/owner is welcome or consensual.

Yeah.

As someone pointed out earlier, there are many historical accounts by female slaves suggesting they were not at all happy about their owners' forcing sexual attention on them.

The highest status male on a plantation would be the slave owner, so sociobiology teaches us that the slave owner would be the most highly desired sex partner.

Half Sigma, as usual, you take far too simplistic a view of women's sexuality. You fail to factor in the hatred slaves had for their owners, and how cruel many of them were to the female slaves they slept with. Women don't desire or admire tyrants. It's not like being seduced by the beloved boss of the company, for example, or a sympathetic mentor.

[Gannon]

Well, luckily this isn't a popularity contest.
Judging the past with modern moral standards makes absolutely no sense.
A few things to remember: past societies were very promiscuous, and while we talk a lot about sex we have less sex than before.
Expectations are also very important.
At night the owner enters the chamber of his female black slave and starts groping her. A few black females probably entered a romantic relationship with him, seeing him as the alpha male. A few others probably are deeply grossed but won't resist because they know it's useless, these can be considered rapes. But most just probably let it happen without developing bad or good feelings about it because they considered it normal and it was within expectations. They just probably didn't think much about it. Also, when man and women live together it is normal that after a time romantic feelings begin to develope.

[Turambar]

I think the point has to be any putative resentment that a black women might feel for something that happened 20 generations ago to people that may or may not have not been her ancestors doesnt make a lot of sense. Especially since todays white American males are unlikely to be descendants of plantation owners.

Disqualifying a huge pool of potential mates over something that happened so remotely and for which there is no present day culpability makes no sense. Even more so since black women are bemoaning the lack of solid men.

[Spungen]

Disqualifying a huge pool of potential mates over something that happened so remotely and for which there is no present day culpability makes no sense.

I doubt it's that political or sophisticated. From what I've heard, it's more like the way a lot of poorer people feel about rich people. You feel they're insensitive, don't understand your experience, suspect they maybe look down on you a bit.

[David Alexander]

You feel they're insensitive, don't understand your experience, suspect they maybe look down on you a bit.

Isn't that true of how most people feel about the poor even amongst both liberals and conservatives?

[Turambar]

From what I've heard, it's more like the way a lot of poorer people feel about rich people.

I'd really like to be a fly on the wall in some households and see if people really buy into 'the Banker' stuff on "Deal or No Deal". Can people really work up hate against the silhouette playing the Expected Value Formula?

I don't believe it's really about, "your ancestors did x to my ancestors so I won't go out with you". It seems that what slavery shows these women is that just because a white man was willing to have sex with a black woman, it didn't mean he respected her or wanted her for much else.

When I've heard black women bring up the slavery issue during discussions about interracial dating, it's usually to express that white men's willingness to date them doesn't necessarily mean they're not racist or rule out that white men are just seeking to use them for sex without really valuing them as women & as candidates for a long-term relationship. Not because they hold men today responsible for the sins of their forefathers.

[David Alexander]

The sad part is that these are the same women who'll date black men who treat them poorly and use the women only for sex and cheat on them on multiple occasions and abandon them when they become pregnant.

[teejay]

And, sorry, slaves can't have consensual sex with the men that own them.

So Thomas Jefferson was a rapist?

[Rain And]

Yes, in fact he was.

[teejay]

You drain rape of its moral force when you include cases like Jefferson and Hemmings.

The fact is that your suspicions/assumptions run contrary to the historical record, written by authors who did their research & deal in facts, and to female slave narratives.

Selection bias. Women who were taken by force would be more likely to speak out and leave a record.

Slave narratives encompass not just the personal story of the speaker, but their observations of the how the institution of slavery played out on their plantations.

[Rain And]

You drain rape of its moral force when you include cases like Jefferson and Hemmings.

Sorry, you drain both rape and slavery of their moral abhorrence and their basic reality, by suggesting that female slaves have any real choice in the matter.

Your moral opinion matters very little on this topic anyway. I'm pretty sure I will never hear a genuinely concerned female or feminist accuse me of "drain[ing] rape of its moral force" by arguing that slave masters who [] their own slaves are rapists!

[teejay]

Which would make them even less reliable as a record of consent.

If there no no consensus on whether he even fathered Hemmings children, how can you, who was no present, be so sure that there was a rape?

Undermines your credibility when you are so declarative about things you are not in a position to know.

[teejay]

Slave narratives encompass not just the personal story of the speaker, but their observations of the how the institution of slavery played out on their plantations.

Which would make them even less reliable as a record of consent.

[teejay]

Sorry, you drain both rape and slavery of their moral abhorrence and their basic reality, by suggesting that female slaves have any real choice in the matter.

You drain rape of its moral force when you include basic reality like Jefferson and Hemmings.