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May 01, 2007

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It's quite possible that conservative women shun feminism and thus are very unlikely to attend sexual harassment seminars, and are thus less likely to think certain types of behaviour are harassment, but I don't think that's likely. I'd imagine that their conservative nature would lead them to believe that a sexually suggestive environment was wrong.

It's also likely that conservative women drop out of the workforce at a young age, have children, and then return when they're older and less attractive, which makes them less likely sexual harassment targets.

This is like pointing out conservatives are more likely to have been mugged. Egg, chicken.

From the perspective of the one doing the harassing, the perceived chance of getting lucky with a liberal woman must be significantly higher than with a conservative woman.

I can also imagine that the point about how the woman interprets actions is probably right too.

Women who are smart and liberal are probably more likely 1) to be working, and 2) more likely to be working in careers where they're in close contact with male superiors and coworkers, and 3) to desire progress which can be blocked by gender-based hostility.

This was probably even truer 15 years ago, which is when this data is from, right?

It's quite possible that conservative women shun feminism and thus are very unlikely to attend sexual harassment seminars, and are thus less likely to think certain types of behavior are harassment, but I don't think that's likely. I'd imagine that their conservative nature would lead them to believe that a sexually suggestive environment was wrong.

I agree. I haven't known any conservative women so "cool" that they weren't bothered by the type of behavior generally considered harassment.

I have, however, known a few privileged women whose privileged status (connections, family money) seemed to shield them from the bull that many professional woman have to put up with. These women viewed sexual attention from men as purely an asset, because due to their unusual, insulated circumstances they only experienced that side of it. They often mistakenly believed it gave them power. It wasn't a difference in interpretation, it was a difference of experience.

I wish there was a GSS question that more specifically dealt with the retaliation aspect of harassment. Or with the hostile environment aspect of it. A lot of people seem to mistakenly think harassment is about well-intentioned offers, jokes, or attention, misinterpreted by paranoid or humorless women. I've almost never seen that happen. Usually the guys accused of it had done it out of anger at the women, either for turning them down or just for being competition.

You probably won't believe this, but this one guy even proposed that women's dislike of sexual harassment was due to "hedonic adaptation." He seemed to be suggesting that women fail to appreciate being publicly humiliated and insulted, having insulting and unpleasant sexual contact and intimacy forced on us, and even fired in retaliation, because we are spoiled by having too much sex available to us. Ridiculous, right? But I swear, he said that.

Women who are smart and liberal are probably more likely 1) to be working, and 2) more likely to be working in careers where they're in close contact with male superiors and coworkers, and 3) to desire progress which can be blocked by gender-based hostility.

We've already seen that liberals & conservatives are as likely to be working (3rd column is a rough measure of laziness). Remember that the two extremes have pretty small sample sizes.

2) is bull -- liberals must be overrepresented in psychology, social work, education, government jobs, etc. You make it sound like Republicans are underrepresented in law, politics, business, the military, police force, etc.

3) is bull for the same reason -- again look at the careers I named last vs the careers I named first. Workplaces where manly leaders don't tolerate wimps or humans who pee sitting down are conservative strongholds.

I think the difference is mostly a difference in perception of identical situations, but here's a plausible explanation that refers to differing career choices. Male bosses in conservative places likely have more masculine charisma (and thus, more likely to attract women), and have to provide something of a moral role model for others, hence might be less likely to have to resort to harassing a female for real.

Male bosses in liberal bastions -- professors / principals, ad executives, psychiatrists -- are less likely to exude manly charisma (so, less attractive to women), and likely have more lax sexual morals, so would more easily harass a female coworker for real.

Agnostic, wild speculation, but maybe these women consider advances coming from wimpy men harassment, but brush off flirting from manly men. I've got the image of a girl saying ewww! at the prospect of a nerd flirting with her, because she can land a much higher status guy.

Male bosses in liberal bastions -- professors / principals, ad executives, psychiatrists -- are less likely to exude manly charisma (so, less attractive to women), and likely have more lax sexual morals, so would more easily harass a female coworker for real.

That's quite an interesting hypothesis, young man, but I don't see any evidence to support your assumption that the liberal women are being harassed by liberal bosses in liberal professions.

As an attorney, most of the sexual harassment situations I've witnessed or heard of from people I know have been from male partners. Politics were all over the board. As a former journalist, I can think of some instances involving reporters and editors, or reporters and other reporters. More or less a Democratic group there, but probably not as feminist as you'd imagine.

You're also assuming the guys doing the harassing are unattractive men who can't get any women. Often they're merely older, and often married. There are a lot of reasonably attractive men who get off on abusing power, and sexual harassment is one way to do it to one particular group of people. Often the harassers are known for being bullies to certain male subordinates.

Liberal is not necessarily feminist. Quite a few men want to screw the rich but aren't particularly sympathetic to women. Low-status male resentment of higher-status males (and this goes to ridiculous lengths, like BU surgeons resenting Harvard surgeons) is an old story.

Liberal is not necessarily feminist. Quite a few men want to screw the rich but aren't particularly sympathetic to women.

Well put.

Often the harassers are known for being bullies to certain male subordinates.

And only the women have a legal remedy. The men have to put up with the bullying because they're men.

And only the women have a legal remedy. The men have to put up with the bullying because they're men.

Women don't have a legal remedy for the bullying either. It's not like women only get sexually harassed, and not bullied too. Nonsexual bullying can actually help the sexual harasser's defense, because he can claim he was just being generally mean.

Having endured both types of bad treatment, I can assure you that the sexual stuff is worse.

Coming from a very liberal college, it seems that being liberal is directly related with not liking white men. It is ususally the feminist girls who get guys kicked out of college claiming sexual harrasment, even in some rediculous circumstances. What has happened is that our society is trying to adrogonize people. Men are men, women are women, and they are different from each other. Forcing both groups to act the same, has had many negative consequences. If you doubt it, read the 'Heidi Chronicles'. It is about women who realized they could not have everything.

It is ususally the feminist girls who get guys kicked out of college claiming sexual harrasment, even in some rediculous circumstances.

Can you cite some specific examples?

The only time this issue has come up here was when Half Sigma suggested Seung Cho should have been kicked out of Virginia Tech due to his bizarre behavior, which included stalking some women. But the women themselves hadn't wanted to press the issue.

Men and women do indeed conceive sexual harassment differently. Unfortunately, an obvious preventative measure, sex-exclusive workplaces, has been declared illegal by our Caring and Correct social engineers.

I think 'The Superfluous' above has it right, and I say that as a young woman who has caught herself doing just that.

Unwanted advances are harassment, and advances from unatractive males are unwanted. Nerdy coworkers, (significantly) older ones, losers of any type in the eyes of the woman being approached; their behaviour is going to be much more frequently seen as sexual harassment.

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