Supreme Court comes through for middle class parents in Seattle

I haven't praised George W. Bush in a long time, but the Supreme Court Justices that he appointed, Roberts and Alito, are responsible for the Court's recent decision of Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1 et al, so Bush deserves some kudos (even though Alito wasn't his first choice because he's not an evangelical Christian).

As a practical matter, the city of Seattle enacted a school plan that ensured that all schools were crappy by insisting that no school could be racially imbalanced. Thus, a public school like Stuyvesant High School, which I attended in New York City, would not be allowed in Seattle because any school that uses selective admissions will result in a racially imbalanced school given the big IQ gap between the races. (The IQ gap hasn't changed at all since Brown v. Board of Education. In that case the Court wrote that the IQ gap is evidence that segregated schools were providing unequal education. It turns out that the Court was wrong, all the post-Brown desegregation policies did nothing to change the racial IQ gap.)

The Supreme Court in Parents Involved ruled that it's unconstitutional to take race into account when assigning children to schools. So the Seattle school plan is unconstitutional. A victory for middle class parents who can't afford private school.

Liberals are throwing a huge hissy fit over this ruling. Which is why I hate liberals.

Comments

[SFG]

Why do you hate liberals? (Most people have some visceral, limbic reason for hating the other side--I am suspicious of religion because it's irrational and resentful of businessmen's success.) What is it that annoys you? Support for big government, trying to equalize everyone no matter what else goes wrong, too much 'don't you care about the poor' rhetoric?

[Philip Levitt]

I went to Stuyvesant, too. It was no big deal. The kids at a regular public high near me, Erasmus, won 3 Westinghouse scholarships while there was only one at Stuyvesant. My two kids went to excellent predominantly black high schools in Florida. One was Phi Beta Kappa at Rice and the other magna cum laude at Brown. You don't just hate liberals, you hate blacks too. Shame on you!

[Q]

I totally agree with HS's conclusion. Racial quotas are discrimination and should be disallowed.
People should compete for entry to schools and universities based on their actual skills. You need to have 'top schools' to develop your top talent, rather than try to homogenize education to create a generation of mediocrity.

What's to hate?

http://fredoneverything.net/Diversity.shtml

[Dareano]

Phil, your anecdotal evidence has convinced me.

[nobody]

The left thinks that this ruling rolls back 50 years of progress (which is not true). Why should the state force kids to spend up to 3 hours a day in a bus just to pretend segregation does not exist? If they are serious about solving segregation in the school, they should start segregating communities.

[Devil's Advocate]

Partly Correct Half Sigma:

But, Justice Kennedy's concurrence permits race still to be used as a factor. I happen to be an expert on the Seattle School district case. If you want more in depth analysis than you'll find anywhere else, read my editorial.

http://copiousdissent.blogspot.com/2007/06/supreme-court-strikes-down-seattle.html

[mondo]

Liberals callously ignore individual rights and freedom of choice to achieve spurious and superficial idealistic goals. Anyone who went through busing and district gerrymandering knows that people naturally segregate by race and socioeconomic class anyways. From AP classes to lunch tables.

This ruling isn't going to change the overall social, academic, and racial dynamics of public schools much, if any, at all. It might save a few kids from forced social isolation and alienation though. Why bus a kid away from the people in his neighborhood that he grew up and socialized with? Why send him to a school to which he may feel no attachment?

Then again, I would hate to go to a school exclusively populated by competitive upper-middle class white and asian kids. I would have a tougher time making the EC clubs and teams and finishing in the top ten percent of the class. Busing in the underclass pads the bottom rolls (because somebody will always have to lose) and reminds the preppies that certain prole behaviors are bad, very bad.

[Keith]

It is interesting to note that blacks wanted this too. The Louisville parents in this case were black.

[Spungen]

Why do you hate liberals? (Most people have some visceral, limbic reason for hating the other side--I am suspicious of religion because it's irrational and resentful of businessmen's success.) What is it that annoys you? Support for big government, trying to equalize everyone no matter what else goes wrong, too much 'don't you care about the poor' rhetoric?

For shame, SFG. What are you, a woman or something? Asking Half Sigma about his personal feelings, indeed.

I distrust Republicans because most seem to have a fundamental belief that if people have it bad, (at least the people they don't like) it's because they deserve to have it bad.

[Spungen]

P.S. I still agree with the decision, though.

[David Alexander]

If they are serious about solving segregation in the school, they should start segregating communities.

Shouldn't that be "de-segregating communities"?

As somebody who moved from a black neighbourhood to a white neighbourhood, it takes a lot of effort to make such a move. There probably are black people who do want to live with whites, but they're much to afraid to live with white people for fear of racism (e.g. nasty neighbours, kids committing acts of vandalism, police stops). It really can become socially isolating to be the only black person somewhere and feel the stares of everybody when you're the only black person whether you're in church, local shops, or government offices. There are some black people are willing to make the leap and are willing to undergo something nearing mental anguish at certain points while for others it's not worth the pain. Then there are other black people who just feel more comfortable in the black milieu, some for financial and some for social reasons. Some just don't like whites*, others just know that they cannot fit in the suburban white profile, and others can't afford it or have residency clauses from municipal employment.

Why bus a kid away from the people in his neighborhood that he grew up and socialized with?

My operating theory was that the black children needed to be bussed to white schools so they can learn to interact with whites** and learn white norms in order to properly assimilate and have a future. In effect, the whole idea is to break down "nigger values" so blacks can do better than the status quo. I went to school with majority white Catholic schools and I thought that the academics were more rigorous at the white schools and I never developed the animosity towards whites that my former colleagues who stayed in all-black schools developed.

Then again, I would hate to go to a school exclusively populated by competitive upper-middle class white and asian kids.

It's possibly better for the black kids to be in the competitive school as it forces them to work harder and achieve their maximum potential in order to maintain a proper academic rank.

*I despise black people who hate white people.
**BTW, white in this case means middle class whites, as poor white trash would only reinforce bad values, IMHO.

[Les]

Is it busing or bussing?

Let liberals experiment with their own kids. Oh wait, they don't! Just look where their children go to school. Typical.

[Spungen]

I see you changed "Scalito" to "Alito." I thought you'd misspelled it on purpose earlier.

[APH]

Philip, I'm not sure if your whole post was sarcastic, but assuming it wasn't - you said:

"My two kids went to excellent predominantly black high schools in Florida"

Which high schools would these be?

[Peter]

I went to Stuyvesant, too. It was no big deal. The kids at a regular public high near me, Erasmus, won 3 Westinghouse scholarships while there was only one at Stuyvesant.

That must have been a number of years ago, as elsewhere you note that your children have graduated from college. Most of the non-selective-admissions NYC high schools have deteriorated significantly in the interim.

[DML]

These tests specialty school admissions tests are passable by anyone. IQ and race is no factor. The problem is cultural emphasis on education. There is a much lower emphasis on education in the Black community overall.

[DML]

These specialty school admissions tests are passable by anyone. IQ and race are no factor. The problem (for Blacks) is cultural emphasis on education. There is a much lower emphasis on education in the Black community overall. [first paragraph reposted from earlier, with better proofreading]

On the flip side there is a balance - there is growing evidence that many people place *too much* emphasis on education. And there's tons of evidence (though admittedly, circumstantial) that a state sponsored educational curriculum is vastly overrated. And that includes the one given to the precious Stuy High School.

[mondo]

Indeed, it's probably more important to know how to roll a joint or where to score adderall/ritalin/xanax when you hit college.

[Φ]

I distrust Republicans because most seem to have a fundamental belief that if people have it bad, (at least the people they don't like) it's because they deserve to have it bad.

Citations, please. Or this another factoid that's too good to check?

[Disgruntled]

I don't think that Spungen's feeling about Republicans is amenable to citations. It's just the standard Democrat's belief in his own moral superiority and that Republicans are really nasty brutish people.

Heck, I'm not even a Republican but even I find this belief laughably fatuous. Most of these liberal types ignore the evidence that church going Republicans probably devote more time to charity for the poor than any other group in society.

[Turambar]

I distrust Republicans because most seem to have a fundamental belief that if people have it bad, (at least the people they don't like) it's because they deserve to have it bad.

Not correct because then why would they be giving so much money to charity to benefit the people who 'have it bad'.

But I am curious about what trust level you have for Democrats, or liberals. They seem to broadbrushs huge groups for blind hatred- remember the "Jesusland" map?

[Arglebargle]

This is exactly the reason why big city centers will become more and more white and less and less minority. This ruling specifically affects kids who have a choice of schools within a district (read: magnet schools in large cities). So, white upper-to-middle class kids will test into these schools with little fear that minorities will be mechanically inserted (20 points added to their test scores) into these same schools. Meanwhile, the suburbs will continue to diversify and become less and less attractive.

Arglebargle,
I have no doubt liberals will find a way to get dumb minority kids into those schools that become mostly white and therefore good places to get an education. I am just surprised that liberals haven't come out yet and said that they were not going to abide by the ruling as they did in Michigan. Give it a little time. The era of forced integration isn't over yet (unfortunately).

[Arglebargle]

"I have no doubt liberals will find a way to get dumb minority kids into those schools"

Do you truly believe that liberals' desire for integration is both stronger and more powerful than upper income people's interest in their own children?

Upper Income whites literally created new cities because of integration. Stacking the courts with conservatives/libertarians has proven to be much easier.

Whoever wins the white house in 2008 will get to nominate Stephens' replacement. Even though there is a democratic majority, it is still a very conservative democratic majority (see Jim Webb or that guy that replaced Santorum). The President will most likely nominate a libertarian candidate like Janice Rogers brown. This will be a "compromise" but will finally ring the death-knell for affirmative action.

"Dumb minority kids" are a non-issue: as long as people have a choice of which school to attend, educational opportunities will be more than satisfactory. The monopolistic character of most school districts is the root cause of our issues with public schooling.

[Frank]

Argle,

+5 for the Janice Rogers Brown reference. She's awesome - like Ron Paul, it's amazing to see people who take Constitutional principles seriously, in positions where the standard is political populist pandering. I encourage people to Google her name and read her opinions. I'll throw a party if she makes it to the SC.

[David Alexander]

She's awesome - like Ron Paul, it's amazing to see people who take Constitutional principles seriously

Wow, a black libertarian. Rocks do float.

[mondo]

If schools can no longer force integration, one can also assume a growing divide in school funding(because of the property tax base). NY Times article here.

What if property taxes no longer mattered, that all school districts receive equal funding per pupil? Brown vs BoE is completely reversed and "separate but equal" goes in effect again. Real estate values would normalize between different neighborhoods (to the chagrin of some owners, no doubt), although a white "safe" neighborhood will always cost more.

[mondo]

Sorry, posting problems.

On second thought, I don't think real estate values would change much at all because areas in "good" school districts will always cost more.

"Do you truly believe that liberals' desire for integration is both stronger and more powerful than upper income people's interest in their own children?"

Of course not. The wealthy don't have to worry about integration/bad schools. They send their kids to private schools or live in expensive areas with little or no minority student population to fuck things up. Wealthy liberals don't have to worry about it either, as they experiment with middle and working class people's kid's. The Clinton's are perhaps the most visible example of this.

[arglebargle]

Blank,

Your proposition is that wealthy liberals will simply opt out of integrated schools they desire for the rest of the populace.

This is exactly what the ruling allows!

[Brandon Berg]

I distrust Republicans because most seem to have a fundamental belief that if people have it bad, (at least the people they don't like) it's because they deserve to have it bad.

That's an oversimplification. Conservatives and libertarians recognize that people end up in bad situations for a variety of reasons, which often but not always include having made one or more poor life choices. I don't see that this can be legitimately disputed--the only question is how often this is the case.

Conservatives and libertarians may overestimate the frequency with which bad situations are the result of bad choices, but all but the most clueless acknowledge that this is not always the case. However, in my experience it's very rare to find a leftist who acknowledges that this is true in more than a tiny minority of cases.