Looney left, part 2

An anonymous comment left on my recent post about a looney nut at Daily Kos sarcastically says:

I look forward to your next series of posts mocking the blogs of the wingnut Right which serve as auxiliaries & lackeys of the GOP.

There is no such phenomenon on the political right. Daily Kos is huge site that supposedly gets 20 million visits per month and "kos," the founder of the site, is according to this article the 12th most influential liberal. Real politicians actually make occasional posts at Daily Kos, so the Daily Kos website really is like an auxiliary of the Democratic Party.

Sure there some crazy far-right communities on the web, such as Stormfront.org (which sees Jewish conspiracies in everything), but no mainstream Republican politician would dare be associated with such a website. The major right-wing blog is Instapundit, which consists mostly of links to moderately conservative and and libertarian blog posts and news articles.

Jewish Atheist writes:

Did you know that Hitlery Klinton had Vince Foster murdered???

When someone commits suicide or otherwise dies under suspicious circumstances, it's a normal reaction for people to wonder if, perhaps, foul play was involved. It is not at all uncommon for such suspicions to be true. Take, for example, the infamous Wanstrath murders in Houston in 1979. The medical examiner originally declared the deaths a double murder/suicide. But Houston police officer Johnny Bonds was suspicious, and as documented in the book The Cop Who Wouldn't Quit by Rick Nelson, Jonny uncovered the real murder scheme. (One of the convicted murderers, Walter Waldhauser, was released from prison after ten years, changed his name to Mike Davis, and attended law school with me. He seemed like a really nice guy. But as Johnny Bonds wrote in a comment on my old blog, "He is one of the most evil humans I have ever dealt with.")

So my answer to Jewish Atheist is that people who wanted Vince Foster's death to be fully investigated were justified.

Comments

[Kirk]

It's not all one-sided. I remember back when Waco went up, the right-wingers used that to bash Janet Reno. But of course there wasn't much of an internet back then, so it came out in other media, like radio.

That said, I have to wonder if some left-wingers will imitate McVeigh and friends, and blow up something or other in protest of "Bush's Fascist War". If Waco could inspire the right wingnuts to blow up a federal building, then the war could certainly do the same with the left wingnuts.

[Spungen]

I know you love to plug your old posts, but the crucial difference is that Waldhauser's crime didn't involve high-profile, powerful people, nor did it require a coverup by such people.

[Dave]

Yeah, I was always suspicious about the Vince Foster thing.

Did anybody ever find out if it's true that they found his body in a muddy park but his shoes were clean?

Just wondering.

That said, I have to wonder if some left-wingers will imitate McVeigh and friends, and blow up something or other in protest of "Bush's Fascist War".

I don't know if they have the will or ability to do it. The left loves marches and protests, but they seem to shy away from serious shit(the anti-globalization protests in Seatle don't count. It was weak stuff). Why risk grad school and that nice job? However, I do give Scott Beauchamp his due for actually signing up for the military. His unit was involved in some nasty stuff. But he seems to be the anomoly. Most leftists shy away from getting actual experience. If they were serious, they would join the army and get paid to learn demolitions, geurrila warfare, weapons use, etc...Most leftists don't know too much about even how to shoot a gun or blow something up, and it seems that many more right wingers. As it is they enjoy nice junkets to people like Hugo Chaves or Castro to give those guys blowjobs and talk about how bad America is. The only lefties that seem to actually destroy shit are those environmentalists types who torched a Hummer dealership and a ski resort out west. Essentially, there is lots of noise, but no substance.

Most likely Vince Voster was killed by right-wingers and his body was planted to cast suspicion on the Clinton's. The modern version of Nixon's "plumbers" obviously didn't do a good enough job, they forgot to appropriately muddy his shoes.
Also, Curt Cobain didn't kill himself either, he was murdered.

Read this shit here: http://www.cobaincase.com/

[JewishAtheist]

The right has talk radio.

[GOP Lurker]

Hardly impartial, but certainly timely:

"Kathleen Willey suspects Clintons murdered husband" - WorldNetDaily
http://tinyurl.com/yprbct
--
"When I asked if the burns were indicative of a left-handed person committing suicide, [the examiner] said no. The room started to spin, and I went into the bathroom and threw up. By the time she sent me the full report, though, she'd reconsidered, saying it could be consistent with a left-handed person. She suggested that he held the gun with both hands but pulled the trigger with his right. That's exactly how Vince Foster is said to have killed himself."

The Left has talk radio too, except that they say crazier things than Rush, Hannity or Glen Beck.

Go google the Wellstone crash, or Tim Johnsons's illness and you'll see that the Left thinks that Bush was behind it.

Teresa Heinz thinks Bush stole the election because things didnt work out her way:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/214744_joel07.html?source=rss

Left wing talk radio is nowhere near as much fun. NPR? I would recommend that if you had insomnia. Then there was that Air America thing with Al Franken which nobody listened to. Boring and dull as well. No wonder why the leftists want to bring back the Fairness Doctrine.

[tommy]

I find Vince Foster conspiracy theories pretty crazy, but here is something of interest from Kathleen Willey's Wikipedia page:

On Labor Day weekend 2007, Willey's house was burglarized, with the only thing stolen being a manuscript of her upcoming book Target: Caught in the Crosshairs of Bill and Hillary Clinton. (A purse was initially taken, but was found in the woods nearby, with the cash but not credit cards or anything else stolen. Her laptop computer had been tampered with, but not taken). Willey stated that she believes individuals with ties to the Clintons are responsible for the break-in, due to its similarity to other examples of harassment in the past, and filed a police report, but to date no action has been taken on that report.

The break-in at Willey's house over Labor Day resembles one reported by David Schippers, the chief counsel for the 1998 impeachment trial of President Clinton, who told Willey that he had a remarkably similar experience prior to publication of his best-selling book, Sellout: The Inside Story of President Clinton's Impeachment and believes the Clintons also were behind it.

Note: Italicization of "Sellout" mine; removed reference numbers.

Didn't someone steal John Kerry's military records from the home of a researcher?

Didn't someone steal John Kerry's military records from the home of a researcher?

Those aren't the only copies. The Navy should still have his, but from what I understand, only Kerry can authorize the release. I think Kerry certainly has something to hide and that it is likely that it has something to do with his meeting with the NVA in Paris. If I were him, I'd be trying to hide shit too.

[Aaron Luchko]

"So my answer to Jewish Atheist is that people who wanted Vince Foster's death to be fully investigated were justified."

Perhaps even 3 official investigations, including one by Kenneth Starr, the guy who almost got Clinton impeached! Oh wait, that already happened and they all determined it was a suicide... Well in that case we should have another investigation!

At a certain point a conspiracy theory crosses the line into implausibility, at that point I become suspicious of the motives/rationality of those who continue to be proponents.

On a side note to the commenter who was complaining about the military experience of people on the left

"Most leftists shy away from getting actual experience. If they were serious, they would join the army and get paid to learn demolitions, geurrila warfare, weapons use, etc..."

You do realize that one of the major differences between the "left" and the "right" is that people on the left are generally far more pacifist and opposed to military intervention. The line of reasoning that they aren't serious because they don't join the military is somewhat flawed.

You are missing my point regarding the left and their lack of military experience. The left claims to be pacifist and opposed to military intervention, but they have no problem with it when it suits their purposes. Like I said, the anti-globalization protests are pretty weak tea, but smashing property isn't pacifist and neither is arson, vandalism, fighting with the cops, etc... My point is that if they had any brains and conviction, they would join the military and get the needed skills for real mayhem, destruction and violence for free. If they truly felt that their cause was just, then they would gladly join up because it is for a greater cause and they should be willing to suffer for that cause. As an added bonus, "The Man" gets to pay for it and sells them the very "rope" that will be used to bring down the horrible, exploitative capitalist system and all its attendant injustice with it or at the very least gives committed leftists the skills necessary to do some real damage and kill some right-wingers, capitalists, etc... A side bonus is that the military should be an ideal place for the left to recruit exploited soldiers and those who have been fucked by the system, not to mention the experience of the working class and average guy they are always going on about and process to love. But as I said, the left isn't really interested in doing that. They want to keep it safe, after all, a guy could get killed in the army and that would really fuck up chances for tenure or a cushy job. they military also requires people to actually do shit which doesn't involve position papers and isn't very fun. They just like the excitement of being naughty and marching, chanting and breaking some shit, throwing rocks at the cops and so on because first off they get to be "bad" with no real risk and it also gives them bragging rights and access to pussy.

[SFG]

Geez guys. Nobody's ever heard of Free Republic? Little Green Footballs? There are plenty of right-wing blogs with overheated rhetoric.

Attempts to recruit soldiers have, from what I've heard, gone pretty badly. A lot of them are from the most right-wing parts of the country.

My response to the 'why doesn't the Left risk their lives joining the army' is, why don't you righties join the army? After all, you support this war. ;)

[Half Sigma]

why don't you righties join the army? After all, you support this war.

There are many ways to support a war. Such as paying taxes, which are used to buy munitions. Actual fighting is best left to young gung-ho types.

SFG,
I am in the army and I have been since before the war began in 2003. I can't speak for anyone else though. And I'm not a young gung-ho type either. But as I said, the left is mostly talk and broken windows. Maybe they get pepper sprayed or smacked with a night stick, but as I mentioned above, it is mostly for bragging rights.

[tommy]

My response to the 'why doesn't the Left risk their lives joining the army' is, why don't you righties join the army? After all, you support this war. ;)

Neocons support this war. Paleocons like myself have never supported this war or any war based upon the false premise that tribalist, Islamic societies like Iraq can be turned into successful democracies.

[SFG]

Actual fighting is best left to young gung-ho types.
Oh come on. They could surely use a smart programmer like yourself! Or you could become a JAG. You've got a law degree. ;)

Neocons support this war. Paleocons like myself have never supported this war or any war based upon the false premise that tribalist, Islamic societies like Iraq can be turned into successful democracies.
That's true. Were it not for my ethnic background I think I'd be a paleocon sometimes. I don't know what I can be instead. Paleoliberal? Cynical liberal?

As for anon (come on and pick a nick already!) you could well be right. I only try to defend my positions, not the behavior of my compatriots on the left.

[Half Sigma]

Oh come on. They could surely use a smart programmer like yourself!

I did work for the US Army via a government contractor as a computer programmer. I worked at a crappy army base in northern Virginia. So I guess I've done more than my part.

[Turambar]

"why don't you righties join the army? After all, you support this war."

There are many ways to support a war. Such as paying taxes, which are used to buy munitions. Actual fighting is best left to young gung-ho types.

After 9/11 a number of my coworkers were interested in what they could do to help the war effort. One even call a recruiter and told him what he made in the private sector and asked if there was something he could do for the military (PMI certified I'd guess $90K+). The recruiter told him to just keep paying his taxes.

The problem with us little Eichmanns in IT is that we have lives built around high paygrades and joining the military would probably mean selling your house and pulling your kids out of their schools. And maybe making arrangements for your wife to start working and arrange for child care.

And to what purpose- its not like they need more people marching around.

I did get the satisfaction of working a couple of 9/11 related projects. I was involved in triaging data centers out of NYC and bringing them up in other locations. We also have done a couple of projects for the HSA. So its not like us righties havent been involved in supporting supporting the effort.

As for anon (come on and pick a nick already!) you could well be right.

I just try and call them as I see them SFG.

[tommy]

I'll complain about conservatives not going to war when I start seeing more liberals in uniform when a Democrat is president. I didn't see liberals rushing out in droves to join the Army during Somalia or Kosovo.

I did my few years as a chemical operations specialist (used to be Army MOS 54B, currently 74D). I put in my time.

[Jim Beam]

"why don't you righties join the army? After all, you support this war."

Why don't the College Republicans join the army? After all, they support this war.

Oh wait, I'm sure the College Democrats support the war in Afghanistan, why don't they join? Wait? I'm sure we all support the war in Afghanistan, so why don't we all join?

Ahhh well, we're all guilty of being armchair warriors. We're all too good for fighting America's wars--let the lower classes fight em'.

*cue the violin

[Jim Beam]

URL Correction: College Republicans

[Mike Malloy]

"The Left has talk radio too, except that they say crazier things than Rush, Hannity or Glen Beck"

The BushCrimeFamily started the fires in Southern California, don-cha-know?

[Aaron Luchko]

"The left claims to be pacifist and opposed to military intervention, but they have no problem with it when it suits their purposes. Like I said, the anti-globalization protests are pretty weak tea, but smashing property isn't pacifist and neither is arson, vandalism, fighting with the cops, etc..."

Actually most people on the left are pacifist, there is a small minority of people on the left who aren't pacifist, there's also a few people who come out to protests because they want to break stuff and don't give a damn about the cause. Don't confuse the actions of a tiny minority with the beliefs of the whole.

Don't confuse the actions of a tiny minority with the beliefs of the whole.

I'll try not to, but screaming for the castration of those guys at Duke isn't pacifism, the firing of Larry Summers and the hounding of Watson isn't pacifism. The hysteria over global warming isn't pacifism. The support of criminals like Mumia and fellating despots like Chavez and Castro isn't pacifism either. Failing to speak out against muslim misogynist and murderous behavior isn't pacifism either. Not to mention the widespread anti-semitism of leftists and the support of abortion. I don't think that "minority" is all that small.

[Aaron Luchko]

"I'll try not to, but screaming for the castration of those guys at Duke isn't pacifism"

They were certainly condemned way too early by some people on the left but I don't recall hearing calls for castration

"the firing of Larry Summers and the hounding of Watson isn't pacifism. The hysteria over global warming isn't pacifism."

I don't agree with what happened with Summers and Watson though I do think global warming is real and needs to be acknowledged. Regardless you seem to be confusing pacifism, an aversion to PHYSICAL violence, with being non-confrontational in general.

"The support of criminals like Mumia and fellating despots like Chavez and Castro isn't pacifism either."

I don't know of anybody who supports Castro. For Chavez he shows some highly disturbing tendencies that indicate a move toward permanent power though I also believe a major portion of the opposition to him by the right is due to the fact he's a communist and is highly anti-Bush (and anti-US?).

"Failing to speak out against muslim misogynist and murderous behavior isn't pacifism either."

?? Saying don't invade X is different from condoning the behaviour of X. My impression is that the left is as likely, if not more likely, to speak out against injustices toward Women and other minorities in the Muslim world, however they're less likely to directly criticise.

"Not to mention the widespread anti-semitism of leftists"

I challenge you to backup that statement.

"and the support of abortion. I don't think that "minority" is all that small."

Regardless of your beliefs on abortion you can't validly claim that the "violence" of abortion is the same as the violence opposed in pacifism.

They were certainly condemned way too early by some people on the left but I don't recall hearing calls for castration

http://www.chicagosportsreview.com/inthemeantime/contentview.asp?c=197945

I don't know of anybody who supports Castro. For Chavez he shows some highly disturbing tendencies that indicate a move toward permanent power though I also believe a major portion of the opposition to him by the right is due to the fact he's a communist and is highly anti-Bush (and anti-US?).

Well of course the right opposes Chavez, but what does that have to do with the Left? Either the left is for representative democracy, voting, etc... as they claim or they are not (and they aren't).

To see what the left thinks of Castro, who murders and jails opponents and has turned one of the wealthiest nations in the Western hemisphere into a dump, see here:

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/29/151036.shtml

Leftist anti-semitism. Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_anti-Semitism

Plenty of stuff there. Or you could just use the photo as an example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AntiWarRallyFeb162003.jpg

Zombietime has plenty of stuff. See here:

http://www.zombietime.com/stop_the_us_israeli_war_8_12_2006/

Regardless of your beliefs on abortion you can't validly claim that the "violence" of abortion is the same as the violence opposed in pacifism

Why not? Isn't abortion killing a small unborn human being? That sounds pretty violent to me, considering that this unborn human doesn't have a chance to even defend itself or even run. Of course, if you don't consider an unborn baby alive(which most assuredly it is), then I guess you are right.

Saying don't invade X is different from condoning the behaviour of X. My impression is that the left is as likely, if not more likely, to speak out against injustices toward Women and other minorities in the Muslim world, however they're less likely to directly criticise.

If you are not (at the very least) directly criticizising violence, oppression, abuse, etc... then what the hell are you doing? The answer is nothing or at best playing it safe and trying not to offend anyone, especially 3rd world lunatics who have a tendency to slit throats. Either something is wrong and worthy of direct condemnation, as I believe islam is, or it isn't important enough to bother. So what do pacifists do when they see injustice/oppression/violence, etc...that con only be stopped by physical confrontation? Sit back and wring their hands, write strong letters or what?

[Aaron Luchko]

http://www.chicagosportsreview.com/inthemeantime/contentview.asp?c=197945

Ok, so it appears some people made signs threatening castration though that doesn't really say how widespread it was. Was the castration call fairly widespread or was it the equivalent of a left wing Fred Phelps? You can find nutcases in any political group, what I'm concerned about is the mainstream opinion. I agree that the mainstream left, well at least the fringe left, totally went overboard on the Lacross team but not to the extent of calls for castration.

"To see what the left thinks of Castro, who murders and jails opponents and has turned one of the wealthiest nations in the Western hemisphere into a dump, see here:

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/29/151036.shtml
"

Interesting. Well I've lost some respect for those individuals though I'll note my general policy of not wanting actors and such to comment on political and scientific issues because they're generally clueless.

As to the economic situation though I'd note that US sanctions are a MAJOR factor in the state of the economy.

"Well of course the right opposes Chavez, but what does that have to do with the Left? Either the left is for representative democracy, voting, etc... as they claim or they are not (and they aren't)."

The only real counterargument to that is that Venezuelans do seem to be legitimately electing him which does count for a lot. I believe there are a lot of people trying to walk the line between respecting the Venezuelans decision while disagreeing with actions Chavez may take to take their ability to make decisions away.

For the left antisemitism stuff I'll concur that there does seem to be some antisemitism on the left. However, I believe that's in the extreme fringe. From what I can tell a lot of criticism of Israel and it's policies toward Palestinians and Lebanon are being called antisemitism.

"Why not? Isn't abortion killing a small unborn human being? That sounds pretty violent to me, considering that this unborn human doesn't have a chance to even defend itself or even run. Of course, if you don't consider an unborn baby alive(which most assuredly it is), then I guess you are right."

As to abortion there's an extensive debate as to what point a foetus is considered alive and a human being. What side of the debate you're on doesn't matter as much as the fact there is a legitimate debate which makes abortion different.

"If you are not (at the very least) directly criticizising violence, oppression, abuse, etc... then what the hell are you doing? The answer is nothing or at best playing it safe and trying not to offend anyone, especially 3rd world lunatics who have a tendency to slit throats. Either something is wrong and worthy of direct condemnation, as I believe islam is, or it isn't important enough to bother. So what do pacifists do when they see injustice/oppression/violence, etc...that con only be stopped by physical confrontation? Sit back and wring their hands, write strong letters or what?"

Honestly I believe that diplomacy can a lot more effective than it appears. Islam used to be one of the more tolerant religions, however when the west had the renaissance and started to take over Islam moved in the wrong direction. What Islam really needs is a renaissance the same as the west did, and I believe the best way to achieve that is through diplomacy. It's not a quick solution but it may be the only one, the Wests past aggressive actions have only served to cause the very problems you're condemning.

Islam used to be one of the more tolerant religions, however when the west had the renaissance and started to take over Islam moved in the wrong direction.

Muslims used to make their money by operating caravans between the far East and Europe. They were essentially the ancient world's truck drivers. However, they were rendered obsolete when the Europeans discovered that they could just sail pretty much anywhere. As a result, Islam ended up having almost no income, damaging its ability to participate in the sciences and other advanced thinking.

As for the West's aggression against Islam, the Eastern (now known as the Russian) Orthodox Church teamed up with Islam, to keep the Catholics from invading Russia and the Middle East. So, it hasn't been all animosity. (Alexander Nevsky, a Russian hero from 1000 years ago, was a muslim.)

This is why Russia has such cordial relations with Iran nowadays. And it pretty much disproves the notion that muslims can't be dealt with peaceably.

On a side note, I'm growing to doubt the idea that Islam's origins are much more violent than Judaism's. The Jews sliced up everyone in modern-day Israel simply because Moses insisted that God wanted the Jews to have that land. They started with the slaughtering of every man, woman and child at Jericho. You couldn't surrender to the Jews. You had to be gone before they arrived, otherwise they'd kill you for having the audacity of going against God's will by occupying "their" land.

Moses and his followers (Joshua, et. al.) don't sound much different than Muhammed and his. I challenge anyone to tell me they were.

[Kirk]

FWIW, I wrote the above (10:38) post. Typepad seems to be acting up. Sometimes it posts my name, sometimes not.

[Kirk]

About the loony left, and violence...

The Symbionese Liberation Army was leftist, and had no qualms about gunning down innocents. Also, I seem to remember a woman getting recently arrested for planting pipe-bombs under cop cars. She'd been on the run for something like 30 years. I can't remember the details, but it sounds like something the loony left would have done. (IIRC, the bombs didn't detonate, but the fact they had nails in them didn't make her look good.)

As for joining the military to learn how to be violent, I don't see that as plausible. It's not like veterans are allowed to buy explosives. At best, the military can teach you how to shoot, but you can learn that as a civilian.