Santa Claus

Some interesting comments to a NY Times blog post about Santa Claus follow.

Rod: “Why not just tell your children the truth from the start? Then they won’t wonder why they’ve been lied to all those years.”

Dan C: “Why not bite the bullet and not lie to your kids from the start? Has anyone done a study or written a book on the psychological effects of being honest with children from day one?”

Bonnie: “Really, why lie to your kids about Santa Clause in the first place? People put so much stock in Santa Clause. It’s as if believing in Santa Clause is a necessity for children to have any sort of imagination or innocence.”

Sean Tierney: “From the kid’s perspective it’s not just their parents that have fooled them but an entire society that has colluded into deceiving kids everywhere.”

voiceofsocietyman: “Why not write an article extending from the Santa, Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy myths into the god myth? It’s always seemed so odd to me that more intelligent adults don’t think outside the box on this one.”

Doug Terry: “This might seem like a trivial matter, but when parents said repeatedly “never tell a lie” and then they are caught having lied about Santa to their children, it has an impact, sometimes small, sometimes large.”

rini: “I remember, vividly, discovering that there was no Santa. It was traumatic. I felt that there must be something wrong with me that would cause my parents to lie to me. I respected my parents less. I did realize that my mother did this to make Christmas more “magical.” I wondered why it was still magical for her, since it obviously was. Then I realized that God is Santa for adults. I haven’t gone back, since age ten (thirty one years ago or so), and am an avowed atheist.”

Corwyn Green: “Now that I am an atheist, I am all for it: the whole Santa thing is a wonderful way to teach kids that just because everyone believes something — and there is even evidence to support it — doesn’t make it true. And belief doesn’t make reality, either.”

Half Sigma’s response:

Those who are pro-Santa use two completely contradictory arguments: (1) it’s cruel to tell children the truth; (2) children benefit from the hard knocks of discovering that Santa was a big lie.

The argument that Santa helps children learn that religion is also a big hoax is belied by the evidence. Something like 90% or more of the population believes in some religion. The best way to raise atheist children is to tell them that God is bogus.

Comments

[drsnacks]

Those who are pro-Santa use two completely contradictory arguments

Is your brain really incapable of handling anything but such simplistic conclusions?

[Spungen]

Wow. I was expecting HS to skewer the Gentile whiners who snivel about being surprised with presents on Christmas morning thanks to a fun fairy tale.

[Spungen]

I hope HS's folks at least did the Tooth Fairy for him.

[Peter]

Wait ... are you trying to tell us that Santa doesn't exist???? Oh my God, no!!!!

[David Alexander]

My brother and I discovered on our own that Santa wasn't real and it didn't affect our religiousness, nor respect towards our parents. Hell, we loved them more for the stuff that they did to make sure we got the presents. Maybe this is an Upper East Side rich kids problem...

[nobody]

HS's analysis is incomplete at best.

A better explanation is that Santa is a useful tool to getting young children to behave. Children are always trying to test the limits with their parents, but they can't do that with a 3rd party that they can't bargain or negotiation with.

[everyone]

Peter,

You have a great sense of humor. Do people tell you this much?

[miles]

Why in the world would anyone want to take Santa Claus away from children?

It was such a fun "belief" until the second grade or so. Little children love it, all of it: The sleigh, the reindeer, the shopping mall Santa who looks like your grandfather, the elves, the toyshop at the north pole. The imagination of the whole thing is such an enjoyment to the little ones, and its precious to see them run out under the tree on Christmas morning to see what Santa left them because they were "good" all year.

Its a beautiful, harmless holiday.....................just like Halloween can be a wonderous time for the little ones also. If we ever lose our sense of make-believe, it will be a great loss indeed.

Happy New Year.

[Matt]

Growing up, the parents of some within my circle of friends and acquaintances told their kids Santa is a myth from day one. These parents were almost always bookish. I also had friends and acquaintances who had bookish parents that did _not_ tell their kids Santa is a myth. I don't see that those kids have turned out differently.

[The Engineer]

Why do I engage in "the Santa myth"?

Because I love to see how into it my kids are.

So it's about me, not them.

FWIW, I think that my 6 year old is on the cusp of figuring out the hoax. He does ride the bus to school, after all.

My 4 year old was totally into it this year.

[Rob]

Half Sigma,

if it is any consolation, I understand that the elves distribute Hanukkah presents.

[Hope]

A better explanation is that Santa is a useful tool to getting young children to behave. Children are always trying to test the limits with their parents, but they can't do that with a 3rd party that they can't bargain or negotiation with.

Replacing "Santa" with "God" and "children" with "people" transforms the above paragraph into incredibly insightful religiosocial commentary.

As an aside, invocations of the family "honor" were enough to get children to behave in China, with a culture that once revered the elderly and family obligations. Kids used to bow to grandparents to thank them for the money packets.

I think that whole thing has broken down nowadays. Maybe they'll turn away from atheism and embrace the Lord Savior Jesus Christ? Oh, perish the thought.

[John Smith]

Kids learn about Santa because parents want to imbue in them a sense that the world rewards good people and that bad people eventually get their dues.

Sounds awfully like religious rationalization for why bad things happen to good people, no?

[Peter]

Spilling the beans about Santa's non-existence got me in big trouble as a 7-year-old in second grade. I had found out, how I don't quite remember, that Santa wasn't real, and proceeded to tell many of my classmates. It's somewhat surprising that most of them still believed in Santa at that age, but indeed they did - until I opened my mouth, that is. Some parents actually called the school to complain, and of course I got punished.

[~trumwill]

Peter actually sort of beat me to what I was going to say. There is a social consequence for not believing in Santa at least up until a certain age. If you're the one that doesn't believe and goes around telling people, you will be socially punished for it. They'll call you a liar at first and then the mean-hearted person that tried to talk them out of a pretty cool concept. If I do have kids and feed them the Santa story, it'll primarily be to prevent that sort of thing from happening.

[Half Sigma]

There is a social consequence for not believing in Santa at least up until a certain age. If you're the one that doesn't believe and goes around telling people, you will be socially punished for it.

There is a social consequence for not believing in GOD. If you're the one that doesn't believe and goes around telling people, you will be socially punished for it.

[~trumwill]

There is a social consequence for not believing in GOD. If you're the one that doesn't believe and goes around telling people, you will be socially punished for it.

Indeed. If one instills atheism in their children at a young age, the kids will face social consequences for it. The same will happen if they fall out of faith as adults, of course, but by that point they will have a better idea of what to say when. Kids, unfortunately, don't understand the affect that their voicing of their ideas (or, more likely, their parents ideas) will have. I'd recommend a parent think twice before telling their kid that there is no god.

[Dan Morgan]

I agree with trumwill when he writes: If one instills atheism in their children at a young age, the kids will face social consequences for it. The same will happen if they fall out of faith as adults, of course, but by that point they will have a better idea of what to say when. ... I'd recommend a parent think twice before telling their kid that there is no god.

Furthermore, to raise kids as atheists is to teach another kind of religion. It says that you know for sure that there is no super being that created the universe. It also takes away any faith that our earthly moral codes might be tied to some higher purpose and unchanging moral standards, however hazy this may seem.

To me, it would be pretty heavy to lay on your kids that there is no god and that all morals are relative and manmade constructions. (Let's see - there is no God, no Santa, and no real right and wrong. Sounds pretty uninspiring.)

An alternative approach is to raise your kids to go to a church or synagogue at least sometimes and learn the basics of an established, mainstream religion. Then later if they toss out most of it, that is up to them.

[Robert Hume]

I remember laying awake at night waiting to hear the sound of hooves on the roof. Those were magical times. "The Night Before Christmas" is one of the great myths of all time, if myths is the right word. One of the great poetic achievements. I am glad I had the opportunity to experience it.

This is not rational. It is part of being human. Like falling in and out of love. I'm sorry for those who did not experience it.

Christmas, the combination of the early myth, the Saturnalia, and the Christian experience of grace of God made man toward humanity and the corresponding grace of men toward other men is the supreme emotional achievement of mankind.

That's why the suppression of Christmas in the West is so unfortunate and counterproductive.

[SFG]

I would agree with the foregoing posters. Tell 'em about Santa so they don't look different. In the marketing economy, conformity is paramount.

[Hope]

Christmas, the combination of the early myth, the Saturnalia, and the Christian experience of grace of God made man toward humanity and the corresponding grace of men toward other men is the supreme emotional achievement of mankind.

Christmas is celebrated at the time that it is celebrated because of winter solstice, a pagan holiday. Christianity took many pagan traditions and basically stole them and repackaged them in the name of Christ. The old pagan gods were much cooler and had much better stories associated with them. Saturnalia, I'll give you that one, and the Romans had other great holidays.

I'd rather tell stories to my (as yet nonexistent) kids about Greek and Roman gods and goddesses, elves, the lost land of Númenor, and the gods who walked on Krynn to instill a sense of "myth" and "magic" into their imaginations. Santa is a nice story, but I didn't need that particular story when I was growing up, because I had so many others to feast upon, like Arabian Nights, Norse myths, and ancient ninja/monk/kung fu stories.

I still love me a good fantasy or sci-fi story, and they do hold great emotional value to me. Blind faith is not essential to the human experience nor spirit. In fact, in my opinion, it detracts from it. The whole concept of blasphemy in organized monotheism is ridiculous, because there were so many deities described in so many books and stories before the establishment the few dominant modern religions. It's sad that so many great old myths are lost to the common person today.

[SFG]

Hey Hope: don't turn your kids into nerds. I mean, I know they're probably already genetically headed that way, but that is just not cool with the marketing economy and all. Programming is going overseas, marketing is staying here.

[SFG]

Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be geeks or nerds,
Don't let 'em pick software and build their own OS
Make 'em be jockies and preppies, oh yes...
Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be geeks or nerds,
They'll never leave home and they're always alone,
And never find someone to love...

[Jim Beam]

To all of the Santa Claus haters, god haters and religious fundamentalists of the world:

What kind of childhoods did you all have?

[Hope]

I know they're probably already genetically headed that way

Oh well. Maybe my kids will go overseas, too. Or if they are lucky, they'll look gorgeous like Kristin Kreuk and won't have to do much to succeed. Beautiful people have it much easier.

What kind of childhoods did you all have?

I don't "hate" god or Santa, but I do dislike religious fanaticism. I had a wonderful childhood, followed by an awful adolescence. Some of my fondest memories are from before I hit the age of 10.