White peope imagine that they have black friends

I like this quote from a WSJ article:

Obama, Eduardo Bonilla-Silva, a Duke sociologist, asked his white students how many had a black friend on campus. All the white students raised their hands.

He then asked the black students how many of them had a white friend on campus. None of them raised their hands.

What does this mean? That the guy who wrote the Stuff White People Like blog was right. White people like having black friends. Or more accurately, white people like to imagine that they have black friends, because it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling that they’re racially enlightened, and not racist like rednecks.

(Unlike the typical white liberal, Half Sigma had a black friend when he was in high school. Half Sigma hung out with him a lot and played chess with him. I guess Half Sigma is more racially enlightened and less redneck than the typical white liberal.)

Comments

[JL]

Duke sociologist, asked his white students how many had a black friend on campus. All the white students raised their hands.

Many of those people raised their hands not because they delusionally believe that they have black friends but because they feared being suspected of being racists.

White Liberals: Black people hate you, including the guy you are voting for. Idiots...

[SFG]

Assuming HS is not deluding himself the way white liberals do, it's funny the way nerddom cuts across racial lines sometimes; I've seen startlingly diverse groups at scifi conventions. Maybe the only way to end racism is to get rid of social skills ;)

[superdestroyer]

To tie this idea in with Rev. Wright, black people speak and behave differently if there are no whites around.

Some blacks like those from the urban ghetto never learn how to turn the black act off. The black students at Duke definitely know how to turn it on and off. The black students will never consider anyone a friend if those black students have to put on an act to be around a white. Blacks consider other blacks their true friends since they can act "black."

Thus, whites talk about black friends because the blacks are acting white around them. The blacks know the white kids are not true friends since an act is quired to around whites.

[anonymous 1]

I had a half black- half German friend at university. I had an Ethiopian best friend after. At this point, my problem with American black people is that there are just too many differences between me and the average, decent black person to make it worth taking ac chance. Legitimate differences in culture, tastes. Differences in IQ between groups many times.

Also, I really don't want my freedom of speech to be constrained by spurious cries of racism due to their own insecurities, concrete thinking or outright psychotic paranoia. An example of this is when Vim or David Alexander tries to shut down a serious debate rooted in peer reviewed studies about race realism/ human biodiversity with allegations of racism. Not all black people do that, of course. I could probably have engaging discussions with Verde and Ogunsiron, and we may not agree on everything.

But, we'd probably decide that reasonable people can disagree on debatable points. However, given the ramifications of being called a racist by blacks in America, the David Alexanders and Vims make me want to avoid dealing with many blacks. There are too many other options out there for me to care. I strongly think that if black people just toned down calling others racist when there are legitimate disagreements about contentious issues and were more forgiving about slip ups (see the treatment of Imus versus Reverend Wright), more people would avoid them less.

[Anon]

"Many of those people raised their hands not because they delusionally believe that they have black friends but because they feared being suspected of being racists."

Life in America is becoming very very scary.

Even George Orwell on cocaine and crystal meth could not have dreamed brainwashing would become this effective.

[dan kurt]

re: "Black people hate you [whites]"

Anecdotes.

1) Ivy League university. I was the steward of my Fraternity my 2nd year and during the summer before my Junior year I had a research appointment ( Analytical Chemistry ) so I never left the campus along with a bunch of my similarly situated brothers. However, we had many rooms empty and could use rent money to keep the fraternity house open. I listed the availability of rooms with the university housing office. Through the office I got about five summer students to live for the summer at the house. One was an affirmative action Black who was to start in the Fall the business school MBA program.

Over the sumer I got to know him. He was the first black male that I actually had any close contact up to that point in my life. Every one of the brothers who stayed over the summer treated him with respect and tried to be friendly to no avail. He moved out at the end of the Summer and I only rarely saw him on campus from time to time.

One time we met and began to talk during my Senior year. He wanted for some reason to spill the beans. He was outraged about something ( I don't recall what. ) and since I was a white guy he knew rather well he used me as a sounding board. Here was Black who had been given a free ride at an Ivy furious about not getting grades that were high enough. He believed he was being discriminated against by the "white power structure" and a whole host of similar clichés. He really believed it. No gratitude over his being even at an Ivy existed.

2.) Cook at fraternity. The fraternity had a black cook that I got to know over the four years. We treated her well all of those years. When her mother was sick and needed blood donations every brother went to the Hospital Blood Bank and gave a pint. We even gave a job to her lazy husband as a house cleaner even though he never did much work. Her response to our largesses were comments such as: "You white boys have all the advantages," and the like. The resentment she held was an undercurrent that was palpable.

What lesson did I learn back then? Good will toward Blacks by Whites is not reciprocated, not by a long shot.

[anonymous 1]

By the way, the real reason that there will never be a 'real' debate about race in this country is because liberals refuse to allow even a public discussion of racial genetic differences, especially related to behavior.

[David Alexander]

I guess Half Sigma is more racially enlightened and less redneck than the typical white liberal.

No, you're still a race realist.

Black people hate you

I don't hate white people, but then that's because I went to school with them. Oops. :)

To tie this idea in with Rev. Wright, black people speak and behave differently if there are no whites around.

Off-Topic: I hate Reverand Wright and his ilk primarily because they reinforce typical black stereotypes and fuel the fires of racists and race realists. They also suck and squander dollars money out of the community to enrich themselves under the guise of "spiritual enlightenment".

Thus, whites talk about black friends because the blacks are acting white around them. The blacks know the white kids are not true friends since an act is quired to around whites.

Begrudgingly, I'll admit that superdestroyer has a point. I suspect that the whites have a tendency to call anybody that they speak with on a casual basis a friend while their black counterparts will not do the same. While one of my white co-workers may think we're friends since we talk on a daily basis, I would never consider he or she to be my friend primarily because of the limited context of our friendship. If we were to meet outside of work or school, then that changes drastically, and that allows me to share personal details about my life.

BTW, for sampling purposes, I have had more white friends than black friends.

[Anon]

"By the way, the real reason that there will never be a 'real' debate about race in this country is because liberals refuse to allow even a public discussion of racial genetic differences, especially related to behavior."

You are correct, the liberals will just continue to repress people's true instincts and feelings until the situation becomes absolutely unbearable and things explode into civil war - and that is going to be oodles and oodles of happiness, joy, and fun in the sun.

Of course, when the situation becomes truly FUBAR, leftists like Frank Rich will be on the first flight to Argentina, wondering why the revolution failed.

That's DemoKKKracy for ya, SUCKERS!

[Anon]

I'm convinced that there is an altruistic/guilt gene, and that some whites suffer disproportionately from having too much of it. You really don't see the same level of self-destructive guilt in other ethnic groups. For example you don't see Japanese students trying to reach out to other Asians in an attempt to correct historical sleights. Of course the anti-white liberal media/academia has played a big role but I think there is a strong genetic factor as well. It helps explain why so many whites will accept illogical, destructive conclusions about race and even refer to those with critical objections as "ignorant."

[New Anon]

"I'm convinced that there is an altruistic/guilt gene, and that some whites suffer disproportionately from having too much of it."

The gene must be linked to the ability of high IQ whites to think in the abstract, as compared to high IQ elites of different races.

The concept of White man's burden was arguably the result of the altruistic nature of high IQ white elites.

[David Alexander]

By the way, the real reason that there will never be a 'real' debate about race in this country is because liberals refuse to allow even a public discussion of racial genetic differences, especially related to behavior.

It's primarily because those studies illustrate the inferiority of a small easily discernible group versus the majority of the population.

Also, I really don't want my freedom of speech to be constrained by spurious cries of racism due to their own insecurities, concrete thinking or outright psychotic paranoia.

I'll let you in on a little secret. If this information becomes public, it flushes away any hope of having white friends, living in a white neighbourhood, or dating white women for *me*. There are enough stupid black people fucking it up for me, so I don't need help from the race realists and racists in exacerbating the issue.

So yes, your harping about the issue does destroy my security and peace of mind.

Her response to our largesses were comments such as: "You white boys have all the advantages," and the like.

I'm not a sociologist, psychologist, or somebody of remotely high-IQ, but I have always hypothesized that mentality is due to the fact the vast majority of the lower class black population in the lower-level rungs of the service industry have no real interaction with whites on a daily basis outside of work. Thus, for many black people, it appears that white wealth comes out of nowhere, and that it's a product of simply magic (or theft from poor people). I would imagine that there is a plurality of black people who are unable to comprehend the idea that white people work as well. I suspect that my experiences with attending Catholic schools inoculated me from such ideology.

[New Anon]

"I'll let you in on a little secret. If this information becomes public, it flushes away any hope of having white friends, living in a white neighbourhood, or dating white women for *me*."

The days of (voluntary) interracial reproduction will come out, especially when scientists prove mulatto babies are, on average, less intelligent than their white parents. So you had better nail a blond now.

BTW, if it makes you feel better, Mestizo men who don't look at least 75% Euro-Med will also soon be screwed out of boinking decent looking white women (Asian men are already doomed in this country because white women know they have, relatively, tiny male organs).

[New Anon]

will come out

er,

Will come to an end

[PA]

I've had two black friends during my early twenties, both at different times when I was in the US Army. By "friends," I mean that these were genuine male friendships. We went out of our way to hang out, talk, etc. I'm originally frome Eastern Europe, and I found that they found that fact interesting.

The first guy, "Charles," was an Alpha, both by white and by black standards. He was from a DC-area upper middle class black family. Tall about 6'2", athletic, artistically talented, IQ probably aroudn 130 (he nearly aced the Verbal part of the SAT). For a 19-year-old, he had an impressive knowledge of jazz singers and other legitimate (as opposed to the absurd afrocentric stuff) points of African American history.

Well, we had a fallout. In short, we got into a trivial argument -- the kind any two buddies would have and quickly get over -- which escalated to a level that utterly shocked me. Shocked, because in my 20-year-long-life then, and since, I've never seen a white guy react like that. It became a "racial incident" (which was all his creation) that was officially written up in my unit's files and investigated. As I recall, I remember that he simply went nuts.

We didn't speak again, but soon after he was transfered to another unit anyway.

The second guy, "Marcus" was my roommate during my overseas deployment. In some ways, he was an opposite of Charles. Slightly overweight, from 'da projects,' a quiet, thoughtful guy, not booksmart... nto really that street-smart either. A Beta in the sense that he tended to be liked, but at the same time, pushed around by other black guys. He was 'friended' by good looking black girls and had no shot whatsoever at even an ugly white girl.

In any case, he was the kind of guy you could have long late night philosophical shoot-the-shit over beer sessions. More than that, he had an unmistakeable decent-guy aura about him.

Well, we too had a falling out of sorts. Once, drunk, we broached a racial topic when I remarked that soem officer who sued about racial discrimination was full of shit. Again, he reacted vicerally. All logic, which I tried to bring things bakc to reality with, went out the window.

We were still friends after that, but I no longer broached racial topics with him.

The point of those anecdotes is that having a black friend is in a way a fantasy of someone who lives in a liberal bubble.

It's not impossible, but it's a friendship that rests on a thin layer of ice, below which are resentments and obsessions that are best left undisturbed.

[Peter]

The fraternity had a black cook that I got to know over the four years. We treated her well all of those years. When her mother was sick and needed blood donations every brother went to the Hospital Blood Bank and gave a pint. We even gave a job to her lazy husband as a house cleaner even though he never did much work. Her response to our largesses were comments such as: "You white boys have all the advantages," and the like. The resentment she held was an undercurrent that was palpable.

Her resentment might not be entirely racial-based. There's an old saying, old but true I may add, that a good way to get another person to resent you is do him or her a favor. The cook may have thought she was being done too many favors, especially with hiring her husband.

[anonymous 1]

Lemme summarize a lot of non-black people's fair or unfair concerns about American blacks:
1) fear that blacks will accuse the other person of being a racist for spurious reasons
2) lack of gratitude for trillions spent directly or indirectly or disproportionately for blacks, including AA, welfare...
3) fear that black people will overreact to a situation and go ape shit
4) that possible differences in IQ will result in significant differences in the ability to relate to one another
5) legitimate differences in taste and culture that will make it more difficult for either group to relate as easily to the other (i.e. diversity as Dr. Putnam's social study showed leads to greater levels of anxiety among all groups)
6) anxiety created due to massive disparities in crime, income and educational attainment that may result in a greater likelihood of behavioral disturbances among the average black
7) possible fear that miscegenation with AA's will result in a loss of subjectively more favorable phenotypic characteristics. This may occur with any non- white/white act of procreation but the phenotypic characteristics of blacks might, on average, be seen as the least favorable and their genes for appearance are often dominant or co-dominant in expression

Until or unless these concerns are assuaged, I suspect you'll see more avoidance of black people by non- black people, in general, that will result in a perpetuation of conditions like White Flight. In other words, the more David Alexander or Vim cry racism or get on some emotive, non- logical shouting session to cut off serious debates, the more they are 'winning the battle and massively losing the war.'

Anything else? I don't want this list to turn into a bunch of illogical rants so please keep it to Half Sigma's standards.

[anonymous 1]

Btw, I wish to mention for blacks that I respect, like verde or ogunsiron, that the above list was for both fair and UNFAIR concerns among non- blacks to American blacks. Obviously, point 7 is something that is congenital in nature and generally immutable among humans. Also, I suspect that not every single concern needs to be assuaged- probably significant headway in racial understanding could be achieved if blacks just worked on point 1.

[anonymous 1]

Additions to list:
8) concern that a black person may not be as competent at any given white collar occupation due to the statistically non- trivial possibility that they got there due to aa and (for those familiar with the data) massive disparities in IQ testing/educational scores.
9) fear that the black will unfairly displace anger to a non- black for completely spurious reason

[David Alexander]

In other words, the more David Alexander or Vim cry racism or get on some emotive, non- logical shouting session to cut off serious debates, the more they are 'winning the battle and massively losing the war.'

As I stated before, my main reason for defending the current status quo of a liberal veneer over our society is to essentially preserve my access to white society. Revealing this little gem of information destroys that connection for me, and defeats the entire purpose of bothering to get up and go to work and get a college degree.*

But maybe I should relent as arguing with you obviously has not convinced anybody including yourself as to the benefits of the status quo, and it seems like this blog's comment pool seems to come up with various reasons as to why interracial friendships are impossible. So, I leave a question to you, why should we as a society have the black-white IQ gap and its various derivative effects as open knowledge? What is the benefit to somebody like myself, or to the average white and black citizen of the United States?

*Yes, I was one of those guys who wondered why Obama didn't marry a white woman. It seems like a waste of a Harvard Law School degree.

It's not impossible, but it's a friendship that rests on a thin layer of ice, below which are resentments and obsessions that are best left undisturbed.

Well, obviously due to the ghosts of racial politics, one must be careful about such topics in an discussion, especially when you're drunk. Mind you, if one were to say dismiss claims of anti-Semitism or homophobia to a Jewish or gay person, it is possible that one may see a similar response.

[Mark]

A civil war in inevitable, and if Obama is assassinated, will start sooner than you think. The inability of blacks to live in the modern world, and white acquiescence, will be the root causes.

[dreamin]

Seems to me the professor is an idiot. He should have had the students fill out an anonymous survey.

[New Anon]

"So, I leave a question to you, why should we as a society have the black-white IQ gap and its various derivative effects as open knowledge? What is the benefit to somebody like myself, or to the average white and black citizen of the United States?"

Cause us whites are getting reamed by the man, and we race realists/WNs view proving the reality of race differences as a key way to stop anti-white policies.

Now, the shame of it all is that we whites could reach an accomodation with blacks in this country, except, the government is importing new racial aliens to displace us politically and culturally, on top of the already troublesome black population.

We could support good blacks if we had sensible policies like rewarding the more talented blacks with AA, housing, etc, in exchange for sterilizing drug users, black criminals, welfare queens, etc etc.

However, we are losing power due to non-white immigrants at a rapid pace, and the odds are this displacement create a gigantic white racial backlash leading from there into violence on a large scale.

The best way for blacks to help themselves would be to support immigration restriction, however, they are so consumed with hatred for whitey, that they cannot resist supporting the racial displacement of whites via immigration.

If you want to continue to have access to white America, I suggest you join NumbersUSA.

[PA]

Well, obviously due to the ghosts of racial politics, one must be careful about such topics in an discussion, .... Mind you, if one were to say dismiss claims of anti-Semitism or homophobia to a Jewish or gay person, it is possible that one may see a similar response.

Why don't I get to go berserk when claims of black-on-white murder rates are dismissed?

[Peter]

A civil war in inevitable, and if Obama is assassinated, will start sooner than you think.

Please let me know your waist size so I can send you some adult diapers.

[Mark]

"Why don't I get to go berserk when claims of black-on-white murder rates are dismissed?"

Or black-on-white rapes (over half of white rape victims by black rapists). What will it take for whites to say, "Enough"?

[PA]

What will it take for whites to say, "Enough"?

It will take an energy crisis. As long as thre are suburbs to move to, whites will do the flight-not-fight thing.

Cheap gasoline is the mother of the Civil Rights Act.

[Gannon]

"Or black-on-white rapes (over half of white rape victims by black rapists). What will it take for whites to say, "Enough"?"
Obviously white women are raped a lot because they are more attractive than black females.

[Steve Johnson]

David Alexander:

I'm not a sociologist, psychologist, or somebody of remotely high-IQ, but I have always hypothesized that mentality is due to the fact the vast majority of the lower class black population in the lower-level rungs of the service industry have no real interaction with whites on a daily basis outside of work. Thus, for many black people, it appears that white wealth comes out of nowhere, and that it's a product of simply magic (or theft from poor people).

I've got a better explanation. Racial differences in IQ are known and accepted by basically all whites; some pretend really hard that they don't accept them but they sure act as if they're a fact of life (de facto segregated public schools, neighborhoods, etc.). The average black person does not accept / realize this or if they do, they're damned pissed off about it. If you eliminate the true cause of racial disparities on this planet, you've got to come up with an alternative. Ah ha! Whitey keeps us down! And look, whitey says so himself (see, NY Times, Washington Post, etc.).

Educated black people go to universities where they major in "making up reasons why black failure is white people's fault"; this then trickles down as the accepted reasoning (see Jeremiah Wright / Barack Obama / Michelle Obama for examples). IMO, there is no solution to this except for things like the "unthinkable": sterilization as a condition for welfare, sterilization for cash programs for those of low IQ, etc. Again IMO, it would be better to just accept this hate and vigorously prosecute those who act on it (people who commit murder, assault, etc). A low IQ minority will always hate the higher IQ majority. A low IQ majority will eventually try to mass slaughter a higher IQ minority (see every genocide in history for examples).

[Anon]

why should we as a society have the black-white IQ gap and its various derivative effects as open knowledge?

Well to start I find it incredibly insulting that the people who call themselves enlightened (liberals) push this lie constantly, all the while berating people who have beliefs that cannot be proven, as well as people like me who dare question the lie.

Beyond this the lie had made for disastrous, wasteful public policy that in many cases continues (welfare/aa) because failed policy if preferred by many than honest discussion.

So the lie works for you. Guess what? It doesn't work for me, as it puts me at a greater security risk, takes my tax dollars, and worst of all blames me, the evil white male for all inequality that exists because this mindless blame is more agreeable to liberals than objective analysis.

If the great liberal lie was tied to a religion, that is if liberalism was professed to be based upon faith I would have less of a problem with it.

As an atheist I have a problem with religions that actively work against me, and I put liberalism squarely in this group. Pushing this lie on the masses is no different to me than pushing a religion that demonizes me for simply existing.

May I also point out that a lot of people have been killed over this lie, and even though many were white liberals who wanted to prove themselves as non-racist by associating with blacks, I do not in any way see their deaths as being deserved.

[half delta]

PA what do gas prices have to do with civil rights?

Steve Johnson do you have any evidence backing your last sentence?

[Gil]

I'm sorta with S.J. I don't really believe whites are really all that smart rather the dominant white cultures allow the smart and productive to gravitate towards the top. Or, conversely, white culture allow the stupid and aggressive to gravitate towards the bottom. Maybe it's similar to the school counsellor talking to Bart Simpson - "all the other students are making improvements yet you stay behind, why is that?". Why do a great Africans and AAs continue to languish when other races are making improvements? Perhaps there's a factor to with moving on and not waiting until all past racial grievances are amended? Maybe it has something to with extolling violence and aggression as though these were worthwhile traits?

[New Anon]

"Steve Johnson do you have any evidence backing your last sentence?

Posted by: half delta | May 03, 2008 at 09:30 PM"

Ok, maybe maybe maybe the non-whites will refrain from exterminating the white population of a white minority America.

But then again, maybe maybe maybe they will exterminate us.

I ask you then, WHY are we taking this risk?

You know there are hundreds of millions of nonwhite men who would love to get their grimy hands on white American women - why should we put them in a position where the third world can satisfy their desires.

You know most 3rd world women are butt ugly in comparison to average looking white women.

Of course, those third world men to get their hands on those lovely blonds, they will have to get rid of those pesky white men...

But who cares what I think. I'm a "crazy, xenophobic" race realist. I worry too much, and, afterall, the NYTimes says I'm and EVIL racist for concerning myself with these things.

Ouch!

Thinking too much hurts...

Hey!

Look!

AmeriKKKan Idle ees on da TeeVee!

Go back to sleep everybody and take FDA approved Prozac to soothe the pain of everday life!

*Drools*

[Steve Johnson]

Gannon,

They're also smaller, less aggressive and weaker. Same as the difference between black males and white males.

[half delta]

No my question was about whether you have statistical evidence backing that previous genocides were always low iq groups against high iq groups. Like Rwanda, Nazi Germany, Armenian genocide?

[Anon]

Why do a great Africans and AAs continue to languish when other races are making improvements? Perhaps there's a factor to with moving on and not waiting until all past racial grievances are amended? .

Racial inequality existed before whites began sailing around the world. Why did Asian countries have written languages when so many African tribes didn't? Why do African languages contain far fewer words than Asian languages? The liberal blame game only works within a very limited historical context.

God I would really hate to be a liberal during this time. Their media/academia lockdown must have seemed unstoppable for so long. Now we have the internet, which cuts through their carefully crafted intellectual constructs like a f*(#ing wrecking ball.

[JT]

Anyone who thinks that the black population in this country could start a civil war needs to drive through the ghetto more often and gather some empirical evidence.

As far as I can tell the black community is no longer organized in any meaningful way whatsoever and could never mount any type of civil war. Rioting could occur and might be good. It would wake up the elites to realize that we need more unskilled labor in this country. Everyone always talks about education, education, education as the only way towards equality, but let's face the fact that for many people it's already too late to be educated. However, globalism and technology have taken those jobs away. The rest are held in the iron fists of unions that will perish with the baby boomers.

[New Anon]

Delta, I don't have any *precise* statistics on hand, but there are many many examples of high IQ minorities being genocided is quite high throughout history, or, at least high enough to make me worry just a itsy teensy bit about the future of my race and nation.

[Anon]

Everyone always talks about education, education, education as the only way towards equality

This is another liberal lie, the belief that everyone should be educated equally.

People can't be educated equally as not all people are born with equal potential. Some people should be sent to school for 10 years, some people should be handed a shovel once they have had basic schooling. I don't like this aspect of reality anymore than most people but I have seen it too many times to ignore it.

[Steve Johnson]

half delta:

Steve Johnson do you have any evidence backing your last sentence?

World on Fire by Amy Chua. Market dominant minorities don't do too well if order breaks down. Recently, you've got ethnic Chinese being slaughtered in Indonesia.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/feb/28/globalisation.iraq

"It's the market-dominant minority - ethnic minorities which - for widely varying reasons - tend under market conditions to dominate economically impoverished "indigenous" majorities. They are the Chinese in south-east Asia; Indians in east Africa, Fiji and parts of the Caribbean; Lebanese in west Africa; Jews in post-communist Russia; and whites in Zimbabwe, South Africa, Bolivia and Ecuador, to name just a few. In free-market environments, these minorities, together with foreign investors, tend to accumulate starkly disproportionate wealth, fuelling ethnic envy and resentment among the poor majorities."

If the (lower IQ) majority has a high enough average IQ and organization you get to see atrocities like in Nazi Germany, organized slaughter. If not, you see disorganized slaughter like in South Africa or Zimbabwe.

Black people at 12% of population in the United States aren't a danger but importing more people who have lower than the white average IQ is suicidally short sighted.

[Gannon]

Pretty much everyone loves white women. During World War II, white comfort women were reserved for Japanese oficials, whereas then soldiers just had to rape whatever was available. Japanese business executives love prostitutes, specially blond ones. So do arabs. Turks love to harras blonde women in Germany. Lots of blacks like DA have a fetsh for white women too. In mestizo LA a blond woman is definitively a way of showing off prestige and a coveted prize. All men of evrey race love white women.

[New Anon]

"In mestizo LA a blond woman is definitively a way of showing off prestige and a coveted prize. All men of evrey race love white women."

Don't Mestiza women prize white American men, even lower middle class blue collar whites?

I believe having a white looking baby is viewed by Mestizas as a way to advance their family into the upper classes.

Oh, and didn't Halle Berry just have a baby with a white male model from Europe? I guess she got sick of hanging around loser hip hop thugs.

[anonymous 1]

Dude, you white guys are really unnecessarily at arms over white females getting non- white guys. Studies confirm that white women discriminate strongly against non- white guys and that those guys have to earn a lot more money than the white guy to have access to them (the exact amount varies by the non- white race). White guys still have the upper hand with white women. White frankly, I vaguely recall that while other groups's females generally discriminate against guys from different races, as well, I thought white guys don't have to earn as much, on average, as some of the other groups's men.

You are going to lose some white women every so often to non- white alpha males like Virgil Kent (on roissy's blog). Furthermore, I agree miscegenation is a legitimate issue to discuss, but let's keep it in perspective. Good or bad, women generally like light featured guys.

I'm too lazy to bring the studies up that talked about this and they are flawed to a degree when assessing men's tastes IMO, but it was featured by the host in the past.

[PA]

White guys still have the upper hand with white women.

I think most women prefer to mate within their own race for the simple reason that they prefer their kids to look like them. Not to mention the ease of relating to a guy from their own culture. And not upsetting the family, who count for a lot in the long run.

If the anti-miscegenation taboo with regards to one's daughter is pretty much a human universal, then there's gotta be some of that in the woman's preferences of mate too.

White guys for the most part have it pretty good. From all I've seen, basically all white girls who have mulatto kids are either (1) fugly; (2) have some kind of daddy issues or other personality problems; (3) are unusually oversexed; or (4) come from areas where black guys are a novelty, such as Maine or Europe, and let their exotiphilia get the better of them.

On the other hand, East Asian guys seem to lose their prettiest women to white guys, at least from what I've seen in Califonia.

Furthermore, I agree miscegenation is a legitimate issue to discuss, but let's keep it in perspective.

I agree. For example, I like the character David Alexander, and I kinda feel bad for him when this touchy subject comes up. I obviously have strong opinions on the matter of miscegenation, but I try to discuss it calmly and without flying to insults.

Good or bad, women generally like light featured guys.

I think a perfect male, physically, for women of any race, is a vaguely mediterranean-looking dark haired guy with blue eyes.

[PA]

what do gas prices have to do with civil rights?

What I meant, is that as long as whites can move out to the suburbs, they will opt for white-flight over white-fight.

Cheap gas means whites can cede the city and commute from the suburbs.

[anonymous 1]

"Educated black people go to universities where they major in "making up reasons why black failure is white people's fault"; this then trickles down as the accepted reasoning (see Jeremiah Wright / Barack Obama / Michelle Obama for examples). IMO, there is no solution to this except for things like the "unthinkable": sterilization as a condition for welfare, sterilization for cash programs for those of low IQ, etc."

A better, non- violent solution to congenital inequities is a strong global voluntary eugenics program. Allow parents to eliminate stupid phenotypes. Allow parents to eliminate ugly phenotypes.

Btw, this may be the only way to prevent massive decrease in the white phenotype in the long term. As Razib of gnxp stated, the phenotype will never go away, no matter how recessive a lot of the genes are or how much miscegenation occurs because of the Hardy- Weinberg equation. However, it will greatly diminish in frequency with massive miscegenation. If voluntary eugenics is practiced throughout the world, many non- white groups who have long admired light featured phenotypes (i.e Indians as shown in Bollywood or Latinos as shown on Telemundo and Univision) will demand that such phenotypes are very frequent in their societies. White people will definitely not be the only ones who will want such phenotypic expression. I'm sure this realization will come as a surprise to a lot of White people reading this.

[dan kurt]

re: "I don't really believe whites are really all that smart rather the dominant white cultures allow the smart and productive to gravitate towards the top. Or, conversely, white culture allow the stupid and aggressive to gravitate towards the bottom. "Posted by: Gil | May 03, 2008 at 09:46 PM

My only teaching experience was as an instructor during my last Post Doc at an Ivy in the early 70s. I never was a TA only a RA. At the time when I taught I taught Graduate Students and only encountered whites and a rare asian. The super bright were all white males. The really bright were dominated by super confident pushy jew males. The bright and really hard workers were asians.

However, my wife has taught at a series of State Universities. One such where the University went from reasonable requirements for admission to Open Admissions sticks out in my mind. What I heard from her was once open admissions came the quality of students took a real nose dive as blacks entered her classes. She among other classes taught 1st year students in classes of 150 to 300 students. There was no bell curve on tests but a bimodal curve. The blacks were the bulk of the left side and the whites and asians were the right side. I can still remember her shock at the inability of the blacks to do the work.

IQ ( or should I say G ) is real and races don't share equally in it.

[barrayaran]

Half Sigma: a peope person.

[Gamma Man]

Shouldn't the heading rather read: "Blacks dupe Whites into thinking they're friends, and Whites like to delude themselves at the same time".
The arrangement makes everyone happy.

[tenheadz]

I think a perfect male, physically, for women of any race, is a vaguely mediterranean-looking dark haired guy with blue eyes.

I came looking for race realism and left with the best compliment i've gotten in weeks.

OT, maybe it is my overactive guilt/altruist gene, but I do sympathize with David Alexander's position as someone who doesn't need any more shit coming his way. Sounds like he got the short straw.

Genetic realities will eventually become more than "common sense" but encrusted by scientific investigation. And once "Educational Progressivism" bows to "Genomic Progressivism" you'll see all these same WhitePeople all for it if can make the underclassblacks 'whiter', i.e. more self-controlled, more amenable to rational authority, and little smarter. (The things that education was supposed to do but didnt quite so well)

[Peter]

I think most women prefer to mate within their own race for the simple reason that they prefer their kids to look like them. Not to mention the ease of relating to a guy from their own culture. And not upsetting the family, who count for a lot in the long run.

Researchers from Columbia University recently published a lengthy report on dating preferences as shown in personals ads and speed-dating events. It got a lot of blogosphere coverage (imagine!) and you should be able to find much more on it through a Google search.

Anyway, one thing that stood out is that women have much stronger preferences for partners of their own race than men do.

[Vim]

To address HS's point, this is what I've noticed about american white culture, they say anybody they might have a drink with is their friend. In many other cultures, they say somebody is a friend if they think that person will help them in difficult times. I don't think this is a race thing, it's a class thing. Poor people need more actual friends while wealthier people can afford the luxury of having freeloaders for friends or to put this another way, they are more likely to be able to weather problems by using resources from their families.

I would also say blacks in america are more likely to be practicing Christians and the bible talks a lot about false friends versus true friends. At the moment, the prodigal son story comes to mind.

Generally, it's interesting how tendentious the conversation here is. Oh how honorable is the white man! Oh how beautiful are his women! Oh how his lands are so desireable that all men across the earth covet them! Oh how wisely he manages his affairs! It's like some kind of 18th century propaganda about England.

There is so little effort to differentiate objective issues like IQ from subjective issues like what different people think the word 'friend' means. So little thought goes into the difference between logistical issues versus moral issues.

In addition, it's curious for instance that the miscegenation concerns concentrate on non-white male interest in white females with very little concern about white male interest in non-white females.

I am not sure why some here who are espousing racialized views of human nature care so much about being called racists. Shut down debate? In my experience, you folks get much more excited when the 'race card' is played. The 'race card' being an expression that is also used to shut down debate.

dan kurt:

"IQ ( or should I say G ) is real and races don't share equally in it."

My ivy league/ graduate mathematical statistics prof says factor analysis is nonsense ... which makes sense since I was thinking this myself.

[verde]

How flattering to specifically mentioned in a comment.

I do some what agree with DA that this information becoming more common knowledge would make my life and my children's more difficult. But I think some good things could come from it if handled in a humane way. Personally I wish more Black people believed race realism then maybe we could get rid of the more noxious aspects of our culture.

If whites have to fear the racist card, blacks have to fear the sell-out card. I can't even mention my beliefs to some family/friends, I would be disowned from the black race. All ready we are considered extreme because we don't allow any hip-hop, or current Black culture to influence our kids, we don't want them to attend all black schools, we limit TV and have no video games. I am adamant that my children read classic literature and that they have a strong grasp of the English language and I plan to teach them Latin. Its quite disturbing how many middle class black children speak with "ebonics" and will not read "non-black" literature. Just that alone would help improve the lot of many black children regardless of IQ.

[tenheadz]

Maybe the tad bit of annoyance I experience whenever Vim authors a post corresponds to his weighty insight... or it could be my 'white guilt' activating in a generalized feeling of "just nod your head and agree with the black so he'll be happy". Or both. His criticism, I believe, is very much needed around here. He is like the resident Numinous Negro, a brave and worthy outlier who keeps the whites honest.

I think he's mostly right about class differences affecting how much we even need friends.

It's too bad that every black forum/blog doesn't have its own "resident Caucasian" to keep them straight with rigorous reasoning and critical thinking skills. Maybe their conspiracy theories wouldn't last so long.

[dan kurt]

re: "mathematical statistics"
Posted by: Vim | May 04, 2008 at 10:53 AM

What other kind of statistics do you think exists?

Statistics is a branch of mathematics. Now, it may be taught in many forms. At the University where my son obtained his Undergraduate Engineering degree there were four introductory courses in Statistics taught by an actual Department of Statistics: 1) Statistics for Social Sciences, 2) Statistics for Business, 3) Statistics for Science Majors, and 4) Statistics for Engineering and Mathematics. (which had a prerequisite of Calculus and Differential Equations ). Any level lower than #4 is a joke, sad to say.

re: "My...prof says factor analysis is nonsense ... which makes sense since I was thinking this myself." Posted by: Vim | May 04, 2008 at 10:53 AM

Geochemistry makes use of factor analysis. It is not "nonsense." Your Professor appears untutored if he believes this.

[Gannon]

"Anyway, one thing that stood out is that women have much stronger preferences for partners of their own race than men do.2

That's obviously true. Women are selective about sex, whereas men aren't. Most men are willing to fuck any woman as long as she looks fertile.

[anonymous 1]

Peter:
"Researchers from Columbia University recently published a lengthy report on dating preferences as shown in personals ads and speed-dating events. It got a lot of blogosphere coverage (imagine!) and you should be able to find much more on it through a Google search.

Anyway, one thing that stood out is that women have much stronger preferences for partners of their own race than men do."

Gannon:
"That's obviously true. Women are selective about sex, whereas men aren't. Most men are willing to fuck any woman as long as she looks fertile."

But, the study didn't address whether men have preferences based on race, and I often see people cite this study as 'proof' that men have no racial preferences. Roissy has intimated as much. Jason Malloy has used this study in this way. I think such a conclusion is unwarranted and unsubstantiated at this point.

If men have no racial preferences when given an unlimited amount of choices of any race, why is there such a hugely disproportionate amount of white females (esp. blondes/blues) in porn?

If men have no racial preferences for long term relationships, why is there such a disparity in various male/female percentages in interracial marriage patterns, depending on the race and gender studied, of course?

I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE ANSWERS TO THE ABOVE QUESTIONS IS SIMPLE. I'm simply suggesting that a conclusion that men have no racial preferences is inadequate based on a study that is really just looking primarily at men's desire to get sex wherever they can from personal ads and speed dating events. They study obviously great observations about women's racial preferences- because women incur a much higher potential risk at engaging in relationships/sex than men do.

[Gannon]

Obviously men have race preferences for sex. For longterm relationships a man will usually prefer a woman of his own race. Nevertheless, if given the opportunity, most men will fuck pretty much every fertile looking women put in front of him.

[Peter]

If men have no racial preferences for long term relationships, why is there such a disparity in various male/female percentages in interracial marriage patterns, depending on the race and gender studied, of course?

Except for Asians, nonwhite women generally aren't much interested in white men.

[anonymous 1]

Hispanic interracial marriage rates are fairly robust. Half latin, half white kids aren't as vocal as, for example, mulattos but they are becoming quietly abundant in the west and southwest. Jessica Alba is a good example of that, and my experience with them is that they can be sometimes ultra hot like that. True Amerindian genes mixing with White can look really awesome.

[William McNellis]

He then asked the black students how many of them had a white friend on campus. None of them raised their hands.

The point made earlier about all the white students raising their hands for fear of being considered "racist" is on target. Black students can easily exhibit their "racism" whenever they want, since all proper thinking Afro-Marxist black students know that black people can't truly be "racist".

Oh how honorable is the white man! Oh how beautiful are his women! Oh how his lands are so desireable (sic) that all men across the earth covet them! Oh how wisely he manages his affairs! It's like some kind of 18th century propaganda about England.

That is soooo true! Why, black people NEVER go around claiming silly things such as how melanin grants black people special magic powers, or how the Egyptians were really black and built airplanes in their spare time and flew around the pyramids, and black people never claim that the white man secretly lusts for black women, and how black people discovered the theory of relativity but whitey suppressed the truth on that one......

[Vim]

Dan Kurt:

He seems to favor the frequentist, tolerate the Bayesian and abhor factor analysis. If I get his drift he says people use FA but mostly because they don't care that mathematicians think it's wrongheaded.

[Vim]

William McNellis:

This reminds me of when they attacked Obama on Wright and he made the clever rhetorical move of enlarging the question to race in general. Here you generalize my comment about what's going on with the conversation here to all white people. It's not all whites just some here and DA and anonymous 1 among others contribute to the nonsense too.

"That is soooo true! Why, black people NEVER go around claiming silly things ..."

So you are admitting that all this pro-white propaganda is silly ...

[Interloper]

This thread is a revealing Rorschach test. Most of the 'white nationalists' on it think their lengthy racist rants are about people of color, particularly blacks. But the rants are about the bigotts themselves - their obsessions, compulsions, delusions, misogyny and misanthropy. This is a portrait of hateful, disturbed people who mistake their problems for attributes.

One is also struck by the removal from reality of the participants. People are moving back into cities, not to suburbs, mainly because urban planning favors high density, mass transit and walkable neighborhoods. Blacks and Hispanics are closing the education gap, though the pace should be improved, and there is no evidence that they perform their jobs any worse than whites. Most Americans under 40 have dated interracially. Even black women, who traditionally refused to date white men, are increasingly doing so. It is almost as if the participants in this blog are determined to get things backward. That is because most of you do no actual research. You rely on your delusions. The data is often the inverse of your beliefs. Really. The country is likely to elect its first black president soon, and some clown is babbling about an upcoming race war. How out of touch with reality can a person get?

Nor is the patronizing behavior offered up by one participant an example of friendship. A relationship in which one person considers himself inherently better than the other never can be. White supremacists cannot form actual friendships with non-whites because they are incapable of acknowledging non-whites as equals Another participant clearly sets out to provoke black acquaintances by abusing them or other blacks verbally. Then, when the black person responds as anyone with self-respect would, he claims his friendship (which the non-white person is supposed to be grateful for) was trampled on. Then, there are those who point to the black quisling David Alexander as an example of friendship. Absolutely not. Using someone who hates himself in service to your own racist delusions is aiding and abetting his self-destructiveness. That is not benign.

So, what is friendship? It is when peers, usually with interests in common, care about and try to foster each other's well-being. You guys are not the sort of people to have friends.

"No my question was about whether you have statistical evidence backing that previous genocides were always low iq groups against high iq groups. Like Rwanda, Nazi Germany, Armenian genocide?"

In Rwanda was a genocide of Tutsis by Hutus; in Burundi, was usual genocides of Hutus by Tutsis. You think that, in Rwanda, Tutsis are more intelligent than Hutus, and in Burundi, Hutus are more intelligent than Tutsis????

[Miguel Madeira]

Other very intelligent people - Hereros of SW Africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_Genocide

[tenheadz]

Interloper's head is so far up his own tookis that he can't tell the Half Sigma blog from Stormfront.

His criticism is invalid and misplaced. The essence of this post and thread is the black/white difference in friendship style. If civil discussion of such a phenomenon is off limits (or revealing of mental or moral deficit) then please sir, give a list of acceptable topics on which to discuss.

That is, unless Interloper's post was meant as a satire of your typical white liberal. Then it's kinda hilarious.

"You guys are not the sort of people to have friends."

Well, not Black Friends, that is. Most here aren't into crime, welfare, stupidity, rims, rap music or non-stop complaining about white racism.

This is a concise version of the PC Hymnal. All the other arguments, bogus statistics and brainwashing are cheap icing on some very stale cake:

The trouble with white people is that they are too (fill in the liberal’s/non-white’s favorite term of abuse here) to enjoy and fully support the deserving oppressed. Indeed not only are these poor, pitiable, white, boobs intellectually, morally and emotionally deficient they are insane too. Could there be anything worse than white people?

What is the take away from this?

No number of black, “Hispanic”, Asian or gay friends will ever expiate the original sin of being white or especially being white and male. Wise up and realize that it’s a rigged game that is designed to place you a permanent disadvantage.

[scottynx]

Vim writes: "I am not sure why some here who are espousing racialized views of human nature care so much about being called racists. Shut down debate? In my experience, you folks get much more excited when the 'race card' is played. The 'race card' being an expression that is also used to shut down debate."

Vim, your comment is far more true about anonymous people on internet threads than of the actual real world. Sure, calling someone a racist when they are anonymous on the internet has no repercussions other than to fire up their passions and draw out lengthy comments from them. But in the real world it means the livelihood of the accused white person is on the line. When faced with that, the result is usually not to "get much more excited" as you put it, but instead to meekly back down and grovel to try and save your job. In the real world, calling someone a racist really is an effective debate stopper, and sometimes a reputation job killing nuclear weapon as well as.

Non-anonymouse People like Steve Sailer and Lawrence Auster are courageous indeed.

[tommy]

My best friend in elementary school and junior high was a three-quarters black and both of his parents were from Jamaica.

[ogunsiron]

Not sure how flattering it is to be mentioned as a "reasonable black". Oh well :-\
I'm not as shocked by racism as most people are. What matters is what people do :
Are you actively screwing me at work because you're a white racist who doesn't like blacks ? I might have a problem with that . On the other hand , are you a white person seeking to live in an all white neighborhood because you think that's best for your kids ? More power to you. I can't think of any reason I'd criticize someone for doing that.

I've had/have close white male and female friends . Close enough to have attended intimate weddings . I've fallen out with some of those people but not for racial reasons at all . I've never really felt foreign or that different from intelligent white people at school or elsewhere . We relate , to various degrees . I interact with white proles in the music scene that I 'm involved in. I don't get very close though since I don't have much in common with them . Class matters .

I've had a couple of black friends over the years , at school or elsewhere. I was never able to keep up very long with them. In general I don't relate to "urban" black culture , the church , at all and this makes making black friends problematic. I'm not very happy about this :( I do have one black guy in my music scene but he's basically a black skinned white prole. Cool guy but there are unfortunate barriers .

An old white friend once told me, jokingly, that i was the whitest black guy he'd ever met . I think i replied something about having a teutonic soul in a black body :) Some black people would have freaked out but why should have i ? I knew this guy. I knew he was my friend, a real friend. I'm no masochist. I simply don't get freaked out *easily* by racial stuff . Hell, I've played amateur anthropologist with nazis on the net and have interacted with some real life ones. *shrug* If anything, freaking out at little racial slights would definitely be an act for me. It's just not natural at all to me.

I am able to easily switch to a mode in which my black identity is not the most important thing about me and that's definitely not an act . I've been able to interact with white/nonblack profs and teachers comfortably thanks to my lack of reflexive oppositional attitude towards whites/nonblacks . I'm keeping it !

[BJ and The Bear]

"I think most women prefer to mate within their own race for the simple reason that they prefer their kids to look like them."

If there is one powerful warning against the folly of miscegenation it's the unfortunate offspring of Heidi Klum and Seal. This beastly creature would make the elephant man proclaim "that's one ugly baby!"

If there is one powerful warning against the folly of miscegenation it's the unfortunate offspring of Heidi Klum and Seal. This beastly creature would make the elephant man proclaim "that's one ugly baby!"

Maybe they thought it would work out like Liv Tyler did. The mom must have been pretty hot. And Ms. Tyler should thank whatever god(s) she prays to that she didn't end up looking like her dad. Unlike that poor SOB Chelsea...Then again she isn't as ugly as Amy Winehouse or Helen Thomas, so I guess she can take comfort in that.

[DAJ]

"If there is one powerful warning against the folly of miscegenation it's the unfortunate offspring of Heidi Klum and Seal."

Yes, and Alecia Keys, Halle Berry, Lenny Kravitz, Jennifer Beals, Rashida Jones, Mariah Carey, Derek Jeter, Rihanna, Selita Eubanks, etc. are also unfortunate looking.

[anonymous 1]

I agree that cherry picking a few examples of mulattoes that are good looking is not any more informative than cherry picking a few examples of those that aren't. The subject of beauty is very difficult, especially since there are no real absolute standards for what constitutes perfection (other than pan- racial standards of facial symmetry and 'averageness' of features). Some people may like Heidi Klum, others might like Iman and so on... Moreover, we would really have to see how any of the above examples of good or bad looks compared to their respective parents at the parents's primes. Even Halle Berry or Alicia Keys might not definitively be better looking than their 21 yo Moms, theoretically, of course.

[BJ and The Bear]

"Yes, and Alecia Keys, Halle Berry, Lenny Kravitz, Jennifer Beals, Rashida Jones, Mariah Carey, Derek Jeter, Rihanna, Selita Eubanks, etc. are also unfortunate looking."

But it's a roll of the dice that European features will sufficiently dominate. Avoiding miscegenation avoids this risk entirely.

[DAJ]

"But it's a roll of the dice that European features will sufficiently dominate. Avoiding miscegenation avoids this risk entirely."

Then what can European-featured whites do to avoid having European-featured children who look like Phyllis Diller, Rosanne Barr, Greta van Susteren, Sam Kininson, Dirk Nowitzki, Louie Anderson, etc?

[BJ and The Bear]

"Then what can European-featured whites do to avoid having European-featured children who look like Phyllis Diller, Rosanne Barr, Greta van Susteren, Sam Kininson, Dirk Nowitzki, Louie Anderson, etc?"

Every one of these people is more attractive than the beastly offspring of Heidi Klum and Seal so I rest my case.

Hey, I gave you the elephant man. That should have been a clue. :p

[OnceAgain]

Well as an African I always have doubts about American "racial realism". My country is multiracial (in the towns) but the whites never performed particularly well in their A'level exams. The main gap is between rich and poor. The poor study much more and fill up the spots at our national university (which has restrictions on A'level points), while the rich get 7 points (out of a possible 15) and go to uni outside the country (in America the average university doesn't even care what you got in your A'levels). The British education system uses A'levels to determine "intelligence", and whites have not shown themselves to be exceptionally gifted at these exams. They require intensive studying and at the end of the day rich kids of all races would spend their time partying while the poor kids (all were black) would study under candlelight at 3am.

Us private school kids black/white/indian had pretty good friendships lacking the deep seated resentment that is seen in the U.S; we also took turns being at the top of the class. Every year some girl of any race would go to Harvard/Yale (even though the poor kids on average performed better at A'level, us private school kids had our outliers). I grew up having no concept of one race being smarter than another (SERIOUSLY). Now myself and 2 of my friends of different races are getting our Ph.Ds. But I performed better than they did at O'level, not that it matters!

ps. I should let it be known I'm a Vim type haha