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June 29, 2008

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Seems to me that schools already try to teach middle class values to a considerable extent.

I don't know how well your "plan" would work. I mean, if the problem is that the kids are low IQ and poor, then there is a high probability that the "teaching" of middle class values to them won't stick since the kids don't have much of a future-oriented outlook in general.

Although, I do think that all kids in the ghetto should be made to wear uniforms when they are at elementary school, middle school and high school (to cut down on wearing gang colors). Also kicking out all of the trouble makers (i.e., the ones who like to fight) to a continuation school would be helpful. Maybe even offering free birth control pills/patches/depro to the girls in high school would be a good idea (although, this would be contraversial to both lefties and right-wingers).

Beyond that, I am not sure what else can be done. Maybe teaching vocational classes were they could become certified in some skill (auto mechanics, welding, plumbing, basic electrical work, etc.), so that the kids actually have skills that can help them land a decent blue-collar jobs would be helpful (most kids in the ghetto do not go on to college).

Everyone please vote against Obama.

Sorry, I'm voting for the black guy so I can benefit from increased federal capital spending on public transportation and intercity rail. Plus, I'd like Supreme Court justices who will ensure the right of abortion across the United States...

Maybe teaching vocational classes were they could become certified in some skill

The first problem is that you'll find that per IQ averages, they're incapable of performing such work due to the high intellectual power needed to perform such work. In turn, nobody would employ them when there are whites who do a better job at higher wages, or immigrants at lower wages.

David Alexander -- "rail is racist." This is not a joke. "Community" i.e. black and hispanic leaders like the BUS RIDERS UNION want to kill rail for buses stuck in traffic. You won't get much law enforcement if any with the "Black Guy" because his base won't like it. If you want to ride in Taxi Driver era NYC subways, be my guest.

I'm voting against him.

FWIW, Black schools under segregation did a reasonable job of turning out middle-class valued black men and women at the end of it. Same people, same IQs (for better or worse), with much much lower levels of illegitimacy, still higher though than the white population of the same era.

Schools are the wrong venue, it's the PARENTS who must be reached. Parents in 1960 or so were mostly married, and mostly practiced and preached middle class respectability. Something changed radically to destroy that family unit. Likely welfare, women's selection (more macho-type men who they don't marry, rather than "respectable" blue collar types).

You'd have to change women's selection criteria, through social pressure and incentives, but it can be done. I doubt the will exists though.

But it is worth pointing out, fatherless children did not ALWAYS characterize the Black Community. Within living memory they were the exception not the majority.

"Community" i.e. black and hispanic leaders like the BUS RIDERS UNION want to kill rail for buses stuck in traffic.

I find such groups to be fronts for various road-building concerns and bus manufacturers. They just find some willing suspects who are willing to race bait, and then derail support for various projects. Of course, such groups fail to realize that the heavy capital funds for rail transit were never going to support bus transport.

You won't get much law enforcement if any with the "Black Guy" because his base won't like it.

Law enforcement is a local issue, and Obama has no need to pander to black voters since most of them will automatically vote for him. The government could imprison even more black people, and he'll still reach most of the black vote. In contrast, he has to do everything possible to pander and win the white vote in order to secure his victory.

Likely welfare, women's selection (more macho-type men who they don't marry, rather than "respectable" blue collar types)

Well, welfare basically discriminated against married families, so it created a disincentive to get married in the first place. Mind you, with welfare checks, women still could have selected hard working beta males to supplement their welfare checks. Either black women were stupid enough to scare or chase away men with earnings in a way that white women have managed to avoid, or there were no men with earnings to consider marrying or entering in long-term relationships.

Thanks for the follow-up HS. I bet the overwhelming majority of teachers in low-class school districts would support what you propose (at least they'd tell you so in private). Of course I don't think a teacher's union, a principal, superintendent, or school board would touch this topic with a 10 foot stick. It's a shame - millions of lives are unnecessarily worsened because our society doesn't have the balls to address problems. Political correctness really does make people stupid.

I agree with HS on this. Whisky is also correct.

As far as IQ?

I will speak about blacks and not Hispanics or low class white trailer trash folks...

Black marriage was higher 40 years ago, crime rate lower, and out of wedlock rate far lower...did blacks magically have their IQ lowered in 40 years?

Also keep in mind despite the high out of wedlock birth rate and non-marriage rate the actual criminal element among blacks is a minority of the community and concentrated in poor urban ethnic ghettos (where most blacks in America no longer lived and have not lived since the 1970's). The out of wedlock birth rate being about 68% is high, but of those kids, most never become criminals, most graduate from high school, most work jobs every single day...when I say most, I'm talking about well over 50%. no one can dispute that mathematically.

Still, what HS suggest would even make these kids lives easier because even if they don't violate any laws, their life and attitude about life will improve the easier life is. Not having bad credit, having a two income home, etc will improve quality of life for these people, so it is still beneficial to teach the values HS stated.

That being the case, outreach to this specific black/Hispanic/ and white underclass would be very beneficial.

No I don't think so, there are social reasons. So what HS said can have an effect, but I'm not sure how much.

Dragon Horse

You've obviously have not perused recent data which demonstrate that underclass blacks given section 8 vouchers are now destroying suburbia.

And it's not a small percentage of blacks who are criminals. Add in other undersirable aspects--intimidation of teachers and the like--and what you're really talking about is THE ENEMY.

Black broodmares need to be stopped--BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

Add in other undersirable aspects

It's enough for me to hear bass thumping out of a car to feel like I'm living in the third fucking world.

David Alexander, they may be shills for various developers (though here in LA that is unlikely, Developers LIKE rail and dislike buses), nevertheless the effect is the same. Obama folds into whatever hard-left racial politics are around, so it's a cinch he'll KILL the federal funds that make rail transit operate. Certainly the Bus Riders Union would like the LA subways and Blue/Green lines shut down. With Obama, that's a dead certainty.

"Rail is Racist" has mass appeal to blacks and latinos who charge it's mostly white people who ride rail. Taking stuff away from them is irresistible.

As for Crime, Obama is already complaining that twice as many Blacks are in prison as in College. Which is true as far as it goes. City-journal.org's Heather Wilson details Obama's plan to reform federal and state guidelines to release minorities from prison, a hope near and dear to minority organizations.

A President Obama would open the federal prisons for minorities ("disparate impact") and pressure states to do the same.

Moreover, white women are doing the same thing as Black women. Illegitimacy from 4% to 34% in the space of 40 years? Illegitimacy rates in Britain and most of Northern Europe at those rates OR HIGHER?

The effect is highest in the Black community, and most easily seen, but don't think for a second that this is not the end-state of the trends in white populations around the world either.

"Middle class values" aren't "values" at all, but genetic behavioral traits, just like IQ.

Asian teens study and refrain from sex and crime because they have high IQs, high social anxiety, low testosterone, and long time horizons. Not because their parents or schools teach "middle class values".

Read your Judith Rich Harris, Half Sigma. You're peddling the myth that social behavior comes from teachers and parents when all the evidence contradicts this.

"You're peddling the myth that social behavior comes from teachers and parents when all the evidence contradicts this."

i agree. peer to peer influences strongly outweight any other direct environemtal effects.

the good news is that we are now even closer to doing embryonic screening for advantageous traits:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,373441,00.html

this environmental stuff will likely fail, like no child left behind and head start. the real answer is as it always has been= change the genes so that people are smarter, faster, taller, and better looking. that day is coming very soon. anyone who really disputes this at this point is crazy.

Polanski:

Define small percentage and then show me some data to back up your claims since they conflict with common knowledge.

I'm talking about felony convictions from the Justice Department by race, stats.

Are you trying to say 50% of blacks or even 30% are convicted felons in America? LOL

Rain And:

Then why has the white illigetimacy rate and black one increased over the last 40 years dramatically (especially the black one). Did blacks genes mutate radically and been put under high selective pressure in that time? What about whites? Why have the marriage rates changed and the divorced rates increased if not for social change? What you are stating can not be totally genetic.

LOL

whisky:

Obama has never talked about violent criminals being released from prison. What he has talked about is a review of drug related offenses and more help to readjust criminals (who will be back on the street regardless) to society (by education, etc).


As far as whites in Europe, I feel I have to defend them some. I know some Danish people. Royal who ran for President in France (the woman) is another example. Many Europeans are not marrying but they live together for years and the men support the children.

If blacks, whites, and Hispanics never married legally again that is fine with me as long as men have a very active role in their children's lives (preferably live with them) and support them financially.

That's really the issue, in America men tend not to do this without the legal obligation of marriage. In Denmark and France I know that most males are taking care of their children...white one's anyway.

The UK is the only places that I'm aware of where the bastardization rate and lack of support among white male working class is increasing as they adopt their own thug (lad) culture. That is a problem. They also have very high drop out rates...higher than black Africans (mostly Nigerians, Kenyans, etc)...Brussels Journals has an article about it. The only people who are lower as Afro-Carribean (mostly Jamaicans).

I'm not sure why the EU is so different from the Continent.

Dragon Horse:

What you said about Europe sounds about right to me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7316891.stm

This article about the british white working class sort of covers it.

"White working class pupils were one of two ethnic groups who reported doing the least amount of homework, who had the lowest aspirations and lowest self-confidence."

"... when a wide variety of factors seen as markers of deprivation were also factored in - such as living in deprived neighbourhoods, single parent homes or having mothers with no educational qualifications - white working class pupils came out worst."

I don't usually go very deeply into the blow by blow of this sort of thing as it's pretty irrelevant to me what the composition of the poor is.

People have been worrying about dysgenic breeding in the poor since the industrial revolution and yet IQs have been rising over that whole period. And yet the eugenicists continue with their inane line of argument.

anonymous 1:

" ... change the genes so that people are smarter, faster, taller, and better looking."

1. Why do you bring up appearances so often?

2. I think most geneticists/ecologists would think about genetic diversity first before intelligence increases. If you breed people that are too similar, it increases the probability that a single virus could kill us all. We've seen this several times. Do you know the first dominant banana cultivar went extinct? The current one, the cavendish, will be extinct soon. (Incidentally, we don't have any alternatives.) The same sort of mechanism is why the Tasmanian devil was going extinct due to contagious mouth tumors.

1. Why do you bring up appearances so often?

i truly feel that appearance (esp facial morphology) is a huge factor in determining various profound life issues for women, but even men. i also think that anxiety over appearance is one of the causes of discomfort with other different peoples. so, if you completely control this trait, a lot of the above potential sources of discomfort will no longer have reason to be present. i won't dispute that there may be other deleterious results that we will have to deal with because of this tinkering (i.e a world where everyone looks like a model). however, the overall result will likely be more positive than the current model we a re living in. for example, i really believe that irrational discrimination (what you and I would agree constitutes racism) will literally go away overnight in a world that has total control over the genes for skin color and facial morphology.

2. I think most geneticists/ecologists would think about genetic diversity first before intelligence increases. If you breed people that are too similar, it increases the probability that a single virus could kill us all. We've seen this several times. Do you know the first dominant banana cultivar went extinct?

fair enough. 1) the major traits i've talked about (in total) probably don't make up more than 1% of our total genotype. the rest of the genes will likely remain and allow genetic diversity. 2) if we reach the point where we have such control over genotype, we will likely be able to also control any potential problems with too little genetic diversity.

Did Michelle Obama learn middle-class values?

Michelle Obama's Inferiority Complex
By Dinesh D'Souza

Now that Barack Obama has pretty much wrapped up the nomination, it's time to raise a question that lots of people have been talking about privately but not publicly. Is it possible that Michelle Obama is the force behind Barack Obama's refusal to embrace traditional patriotic symbols? Could Obama's wife be largely responsible for the candidate's damaging associations with crackpot race-baiters like the Reverend Jeremiah Wright and the Reverend Michael Pfleger? In sum, could Obama's wife be a large part of his political problem?

Obama himself seems, at least on the surface, relatively free of the kind of corrosive racial resentment that is so common among African American activists of our day. This resentment is especially puzzling as it often comes from people who, far from being victims, have actually enjoyed benefits and privileges that they would probably never get if they happened to be white.

Consider the case of Michelle Obama. She was raised in a two-parent, middle-class family. She applied to one of America's top universities, Princeton, and was admitted. Of this experience, Michelle says on the stump, "All my life I have confronted people who had a certain expectation of me. Every step of the way, there has been people telling me what I couldn't do. When I applied to Princeton, they said: you can't go there, your test scores aren't high enough."

Which is all very moving, except that her test scores weren't high enough. Michelle Obama is part of the affirmative action generation of above-average but far-from-stellar performers who were granted preferential admission to America's most elite institutions.

Michelle notes that she graduated with honors in her major. Again, the problem is that her undergraduate thesis is on the web. You might expect that she wrote about Shakespeare's sonnets or the political evolution of W.E.B. Du Bois. Well, no. Essentially Michelle Obama wrote about the problems of being a black woman at an Ivy League university.

Here is a typical passage: "By actually working with the Black lower class or within their communities as a result of their ideologies, a separationist may better understand the desparation of their situation and feel more hopeless about a resolution as opposed to an integrationist who is ignorant to their plight."

Alas, the grammar is all wrong here. More than once, the tenses are garbled. People are ignorant "of" the plight of the lower class, not ignorant "to" their plight. And"desparation" should be spelled "desperation." To wreak so much havoc on the English language in one sentence, without conveying anything of substance, is perhaps deserving of a prize. Is this what her professors were thinking when they granted her honors? Whatever the Obamorons say, let's remember that that these are not mere typos; they reflect an estranged relationship to the English language. Moreover they appear not in an off-the-cuff transcript but in a thesis that is supposed to reflect the culmination of one's college career.

Subsequently Michelle went on to further appointments and even managed to cash in big time on her skin color and marriage to Barack Obama. She was hired by the University of Chicago hospitals to run "programs for community relations, neighborhood outrecah, volunteer recruitment, staff diversity, and minority contracting." Here her salary was $400,000 a year.

One might expect that the reaction of someone who gets so many privileges to be grateful to a society that makes them possible. But no. Michelle Obama thinks that her very success is an example of white oppression. By a bizarre twist of logic, she converts "you're not good enough, but we'll take you anyway" into a message of "they said I wasn't good enough, but I proved them wrong."

Ordinarily these psychological peculiarities may be of little interest, except perhaps to a therapist. But Michelle now stands next to a man that may be elected president of the United States. Barack Obama wants everyone to "lay off" his wife. He doesn't seem to realize that this is not a reasonable request concerning a woman who clearly influences him and who stands to have public influence in her own right. Moreover, for months the media has been laying off her precisely because she is his wife. Like Michelle, Obama seems to confuse preferential treatment with ill treatment.

Of course we've had controversial first ladies in the White House before. The Obamas, however, aren't there yet. Will Barack Obama be ultimately forced to distance himself not just from the Reverend Wright and the Reverend Pfleger but also from his own wife?

In response to anonymous 1, the most important Twilight Zone episode ever was Number 12 Looks Just Like You.

Regarding Michelle Obama, obviously she has upper middle class values, because she knows how to make lots of money without doing any real work. Furthermore, she's married.

Expect teachers to instill middle-class values? Seriously? A significant portion of people who go into the teaching profession primarily do so for the express purpose of radically altering society away from these middle-class values. While teaching may not be the road to riches, it still is operatively a profession. And in urban centers, precisely the areas that need this middle-class values instruction, the types of peple in teaching are often wild-eyed political radicals.

Teaching middle-class values to the underclass might have some theoretical benefits, but I simply cannot see the urban education system as the tool one would use to make that happen.

A significant portion of people who go into the teaching profession primarily do so for the express purpose of radically altering society away from these middle-class values.

I don't think it's as high as you do - I would guess less than 10% of teachers have that intention. I went to public schools in an urban city and was only aware of two teachers that I had with radical views (one taught some ridiculous class called "Diversity Studies")

In any case, compared to other fads, teaching middle class values seems promising - it's worth a shot if any school district has the political courage to make it happen.

Some questions:

• With more than half of black Americans now middle-class, why do you not realize most African-Americans do have middle-class values?

• Do you realize the 60-some percent out-of-wedlock birth rate for black Americans is for first births? The comparative rate for white Americans is more than 30 percent, and growing.

• Do you know the average birth rate for both black and white women is below 2.5 percent? The largest families in the U.S. are usually white Catholic or Mormon.

• Are you aware that black women, who perform better academically than black men, are more likely to be middle-class? Affrican-American women with graduate or professional education have the fewest chlldren of all women in the U.S.

• Why are serial and mass killers nearly always angry white males, often with white supremacist ideation?

• Did you know that facts exist and only the foolish rely on stereotypes?

Why are serial and mass killers nearly always angry white males, often with white supremacist ideation?

Presuming you aren't just a drive-by commenter. In the US, about 15% of known serial killers are African-Amerian, roughly in line with the percent of the population. It appears that whites are over-represented in that category because blacks are so over-represented in most other categories of violent crime.

Rob,
Like I'm worried about Hannibal Lecter eating my liver(Was Dahmer a Nazi? I just thought he liked fucking dead bodies). Plain old black crime is the massive, crazy problem which Visitor carefully ignores.

"• Do you realize the 60-some percent out-of-wedlock birth rate for black Americans is for first births? The comparative rate for white Americans is more than 30 percent, and growing."

Nope.

The 69% out of wedlock birth rate is for all births per year to black women.

Check the CDC statistics.

No. You guys are the ones who need to consult the U.S. Census and other sources of data. Instead, you make things up or rely on stereotypes.

Hey HS, have you given thought to, such that you could you work up a post on teaching Upper-Class values?

I'm undeniably middle-class. I've done OK financially for myself, but I realize born and raised middle class makes me forever middle class (it's little things like fixing my own appliances and refusing to cow-tow to Stuff White People Like). So I am looking to leave a legacy to my children and can think of nothing better than helping them to marry wealth. Not necessarily Brown Univ wealth as depicted in the Johnson film, but something with some generational staying power.

FWIW, I think that's what separates upper middle-class from lower upper-class, wether the wealth hangs around from one generation to the next.

Good heavens. No, no, no. Teachers are certainly not capable of teaching middle class values. They hate middle class values, and are only members of that class by a technicality. With perhaps half a dozen exceptions in the Western hemisphere, teachers are of exceptionally low intelligence and no moral character whatsoever. The NEA chooses such people deliberately to wreck the values of American children. In any sane era, these women would be doing jobs more in keeping with their abilities, such as scrubbing floors or providing sexual gratification to men of modest income at bargain prices.

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