Tattoos

Someone who thinks she’s some sort of “cubicle coach” had the following to say about tattoos:

Dear [Cubicle Coach]: I have a number of tattoos and piercings and am going in for a job interview soon. Am I out of luck?

[Answer:] As long as you're interviewing to be the shooting guard for the Minnesota Timberwolves, you're fine. Otherwise, disarm and cover up.

This seems like reasonable advice to me. After all, I never heard of anyone who was denied a job because he or she didn’t have any tattoos. Covering one’s large number of tattoos and leaving the piercings at home seems like a sensible idea for someone who wants a job.

It makes you wonder why anyone gets tattoos in the first place. A tattoo screams “I AM PROLE!!!” Why are people so proud of being lower class? I guess this just demonstrates that the human brain is biologically programmed to be proud of one’s people. It takes greater logic to realize that your parents screwed you by raising you in a prole environment.

If tattoos are becoming more popular, then it’s an example what Paul Fussell calls prole drift.

Do tattoos make you more popular with the opposite sex? I don’t know the answer. I did, however, read a piece by a woman who was grossed out when she discovered her new boyfriend had a really ugly tattoo. Perhaps Roissy, who occasionally comments on this blog and who is an expert at knowing what turns on women, will be able to supply us with the definitive answer?

I know what turns me on, and women with tattoos don't do it for me.

The internet is full of brainless morons. One such moron read the very brief advice from the “cubicle coach” and got all pissed. She writes, “I have to say the response she received made my blood boil a bit.” The person asking the “cubicle coach” for advice wasn’t asking for advice on how to change people’s perception of tattoos, she was only asking advice on how to get hired.

The brainless moron compares discrimination against the tattooed with discrimination against people who are ugly. Well, there’s a big difference. People can’t help it if they are born with ugly genes. But they can help it if they have tattoos all over their body. The tattoos are a personal choice.

Comments

[SFG]

It's interesting. In some cases, with people who have a high need for individuality, the fact that it doesn't help you for a job is the exciting part, particularly if you can cover them up somewhere. A lot of tattoos are in easily concealed places.

There's also sort of a peacock's tail effect--a tattoo advertises that you're NOT one of the 9-to-5 masses. The corporate world is deeply unpleasant for many people, and not just hippies either.

I should hasten to add that I don't have any tattoos. ;)

[keil]

*Clap* *clap* *clap*.. Bravo HS.
As someone who has risen above the prole status they were born onto, this rings true. It was a difficult ride, fighting against identifying proudly with your cohorts, but I have made it up to another level where now I can barely relate to many things they do.

[APH]

I could not resist the prole status I was born into and have several tattoos. None on my neck or forearms I am proud to report. However, in virtually all instances, I think tattoos on females scream "Look at me, I'm trashy" or "Look at me, I'm stupid" or "Look at me, I'm slutty". I might be a rank hypocrite or perhaps there's just a double standard in society...

[Rtother]

Tattoos seem to attract certain types of women, i.e. proles, artsy-gals, and hipsters. At least that's what happens when I go out with a friend who has quite a few visible tats. It typically goes like this:

The girls, and sometime guys as well, often approach him and comment on the tattoos. They then ask where he got them, show off theirs, talk about what else they want, and are all over him in a period of about 15-20 minutes.

[Jim Beam]

About time you write about class issues! Even though it's a no-brainer that tattoos are low class. Care to go a little deeper?

How about talking openly about sex? When I was doing some office temp work for a trucking company, that's all everybody talked about--men and women. And now I work in a fairly professional environment (even ratio of men and women) and the topic never comes up.

Man, I don't know how many people I've met over the years that have tattoos. Now when I picture them in my minds, I see them screaming w/ their hands in the air, "I am Prole!"

Hahaha...funny stuff.

[david]

Do tattoos make you more popular with the opposite sex?

It must not hurt...cause "proles" have no trouble finding mates and popping out kids.

[Andrew Yates]

Tattoos are appealing to non-proles because they're "wrong." Proles don't think that tattoos are wrong. So proles are conforming; non-proles are rebelling ---different motivations.

[Peter]

People get tattoos these days because they think doing so is a sign of break-from-the-herd individuality. Trouble is, so many people have the danged things they they are signs of sheeplike conformity.

[Joe No]

On the one hand, I can say that I wouldn't want to date/marry a woman with numerous tattoos (especially the ones who are "shirted" out with them). But on the other hand.....sometimes a bunch of sexy tats on a hot girl are kind of a turn on. They're almost certainly more slutty than those women who are non-tatted, at least that is what I have found in my experience.

I know a girl who works at this bar up the street from me....she is such a hot little tart, just one hell of a piece of ass. Probably around 22-25, has a cute little girl's voice and a great set of tits. She has several tattoos on her arms, two on her neck and a big one on her right thigh (and maybe some more concealed ones). Man she does it for me. I would love to fuck her mouth and then ejaculate on her face while I was looking down at her hot tatted up body kneeling before me.

Well, I need to go masterbate now. Cheers!

[miles]

Tattoos detract from a woman's beauty in my opinon.

Classy women can accessorize with tasteful jewelry, a scarf, restraintfully applied blush, lip gloss, eye-liner, matching clothing, and a classy hairstyle. Pearl earrings, a small brooch, and a couple of understated bracelts.........reflecting light with a dress of good fabric that fits but isn't tight is ten times sexier than a "ho" with 5 visible tats in hip hugger jeans and an exposed belly with dirty fingernails.....

[Andrew Yates]

Related question: HS, why are you reading "Shine?"

[Gannon]

Trampstamp anyone? If the woman has a tatoo just over her arse, she certificates that she is a slut. At least you have something to look at her while you take her doggiestyle.

[dreamin]

A buddy of mine goes for women with tatoos based on his belief that they are more likely to be willing to engage in anal sex.

[Polanski]

Interesting post, Demi Alpha.

I don't like tats, but I would never even use them as a criterion with respect to most hiring decisions--but I'm in the arts.

On the other hand, I think a company like Pfizer should have the right to tell their employees that they must cover up their tats in meetings with clients.

Howard Stern has a few tattoos, and I'd never accuse him of being prole.

[janes'_kid]

When I went to the one room school of lore we had some old National Geographics with perhaps the only photographs in the school.

Many, many of the people in the pictures in the old National Geographics had tattoos and piercings.

I once worked with a Siberian Yupik who had their traditional tattoos and broken teeth. She had no clue as to why this had been done since prehistory.

Irrespective of what it means today these are old practices so one needs to wonder when attempting to understand what is happening today, why has it been so popular for so many centuries.

[hugh go naught]

HS is just subconsciously attached to the Jewish stance on tattoos (verboten). So while trying to come across as someone above class identification, he is actually fully repressed into his own upbringing.

[Spungen]

I suspect that tattoos on men turn me off. As you point out, they scream either "prole" or "poser." But let's wait for Roissy the "expert" to tell us how I really feel. I may be mistaken or lying, and tattoos actually give me a bad-boy thrill because I secretly dig jerks.

There are certain things I praise in public, that are fine in theory, but that I would not want in my own life. Tattoos rank high on that list. So do motorcycles. I have complimented people on their nice tattoos. I have even sounded flirtatious while doing so. This is because I am a sociable person, not because I am turned on.

I've met a number of people raised wealthy who have little "rebel" tattoos. "I may be a lawyer now, but I used to go to Dead concerts!" I secretly find that more annoying than prole tattoos.

I have a pierced bellybutton, but that's pretty mainstream. I think multiple piercings are a sign of psychological problems.

[Spungen]

Howard Stern has a few tattoos, and I'd never accuse him of being prole.

But his audience is hugely prole. I'm not sure about his background, but he is Jewish so it couldn't have been too bad. Entertainers are in a different category.

[David Alexander]

If the woman has a tatoo just over her arse, she certificates that she is a slut.

While you prudes are dismissing these women and living in sexless marriages and relationships, I'll continue to fawn over these so-called sluts, and maybe I'll enjoy my relationship when I find the right slut for me...

As for me, I'm not into tattoos for myself primarily because my mom would kill me, and most tattoos don't look right on dark skin tones (eg. NBA players). As for my (former) friends and family, Wellesley Queen was too WASPy and aspirational to get a tattoo, but one of my railfan friends is an college educated prole, and she has tattoos. My cousin married an upper class white Australian who has the stereotypical Chinese tattoos that every yuppie seems to purchase in order to be "hip".

[Spungen]

I met the man I love on the dance floor of a Bulgarian disco in New York City. It was the beginning of December; he wore a knit cap, a black sweater. We drank beer, boogied the way we thought Bulgarians might, and shared a taxi back to Brooklyn.

Are there people in NYC who go to Bulgarian discos who *don't* have tattoos?

I think HS should do more posts linking to "Marie Claire," by the way.

[David Alexander]

I'm not sure about his background, but he is Jewish so it couldn't have been too bad.

He grew up in Roosevelt, one of the original black suburban communities on LI that now even black people are trying to avoid. Interestingly, Roosevelt has become more Hispanic in the past ten years without much trouble...

I have a pierced bellybutton, but that's pretty mainstream

Some how, despite knowing that you're of a prole background, I would never believe that you have a pierced bellybutton since you're much too aspirational to have one. Admittedly, it does add to the "MILF" factor. :)

There are certain things I praise in public, that are fine in theory, but that I would not want in my own life.

I think it's perfectly fine for people to have tattoos, and I certainly wouldn't disown somebody or not employ somebody based on it. Of all the issues that should bother a person, I can personally think of far worse issues.

So do motorcycles.

If gas hits $6/gallon, I think I'll consider purchasing one...

[Spungen]

Thanks, David. Come on, fellows, a woman just shared a personal detail AND a personal preference. Where's the stream of abuse? Isn't this Half Sigma?

[Peter]

There's something else rather disturbing about tattoos on women. While I cannot be certain that a statistical correlation exists, it is my impression, based on occasional perusals of Voyeurweb, that tattooed women are more likely to have succumbed to the Tyranny of the Razor than their unmarked peers. This relationship does break down when the tattoos become especially heavy, as women in that category often have the hippie-chick aura and proudly display the Glorious Natural Pelt.

[Steve Johnson]

David Alexander: "I'll continue to fawn over these so-called sluts, and maybe I'll enjoy my relationship when I find the right slut for me...

As for me, I'm not into tattoos for myself primarily because my mom would kill me, "

You might want to rethink the "I'm afraid of my mom" attitude; the slutty girls you think you want tend not to appreciate it.

[Captain Beefheart]

This is all part of the degeneration of the culture. There was a time when people in the lower classes tried to be like the people in the upper classes. Now, the people want to be like the lowest classes. They listen to the music, dress, and talk like the lowest form of humankind, and this is socialized into kids as desirable.

What I can't figure out is whether this is all an accident?

[Kirk]

Thanks, David. Come on, fellows, a woman just shared a personal detail AND a personal preference. Where's the stream of abuse? Isn't this Half Sigma?

I've been suffering from ennui lately. It's probably the heat. Cut me some slack.

Seriously though, I think some women do go a little too far to be attractive. When I see a woman at the gym with a pierced navel, armband tattoo, and fake breasts it reminds me of the Blink-182 song "Some Girls Try Too Hard."

(No, I'm not implying anything about our "S". Her comment just brought up the subject.)

I mean, really. What am I supposed to bring to the table to match all that? Hair plugs?

It's one thing if the woman is middle-aged; I figure she's just trying something new, or maybe moving on from a divorce. But these women are in their early 20's.

What the hell? Does it take that much effort to meet guys?

[Polanski]

Tattoos look best on dark-skinned people because they appear less intrusive.

I don't think it's helpful to demonize the Tattoo Culture. Let's not be ethnocentrists.

[Adelaide]

Well, as a young lady I will say that it depends - certain types of tattoos, like:

-tribal designs
-Chinese letters, if they are not, in fact, Chinese
-band names/logos
-stupid cliches (e.g. Carpe Diem)
-his own name
-Tasmanian devil & other cartoon characters
-Confederate flags
-NASCAR-related or sports teams

mostly make me roll my eyes.

Stuff like:

-naked women
-teardrop under one eye
-skulls
-T H U G L I F E or F U C K Y O U , spelled out across the knuckles of each hand (true story!)
-naked woman near man's armpit, with hair in man's armpit serving as the naked woman's crotch (ditto)
-basically, anything obscene
-prison-looking tattoos
-"Only God Can Judge Me" - big red flag

make me run in the other direction - either he's a trashy low-life, or trying to make people think he's a trashy low-life, which is almost as bad.

At school, I've noticed a trend in nerd tattoos (pi, the number 42, Tolkien-inspired, equations, dna, mc escher designs, etc). Like, "I'm smart and well-read. But edgy!"

The other factor is where, size, how many - tattoos on a man's face or neck are repulsive. Ankle tattoos on a dude are too feminine - that's the classic suburban college girl place to get tattooed with a daisy or dolphin because it's discreet but doesn't have the "SLUT!" rep of the also easy to hide lower back tattoo.

Many, or really big tattoos anywhere, full sleeves, etc. are ugly and IMO make one look low-class & unemployable.

Also, it matters what kind of girl you like - what social class does she comes from? Were tattoos normal wherever she grew up? How conservative is she/are her friends & family? Does she admire &/or aspire to the upper/middle class & its mores or does she disdain/want to rebel against them? Is she looking for a short-term thrill or a boyfriend/husband?

And of course it matters who the guy is- as they say about real estate, it's location, location, location. A girl who thinks lots of tattoos are for losers might overlook them on a talented & successful musician. I saw a ridiculously handsome guy today with a small Celtic tattoo - despite the fact that I generally find these retarded, I'm pretty sure I could get over it in his case (although not if he had a tattoo from my second category - those are deal-breakers & helpful, outward proof that he is a lost cause). Similarly, a very clever or beautifully rendered tattoo on an ugly dude is nowhere near enough to attract me to him at all.

Basically - I don't think tattoos are enough to make you more popular with women. For women who like them, they're more like seasoning on a tasty dish - they can make a guy they already find attractive, more so. However, tattoos can definitely immediately turn off a significant number of women, even those who in some cases like them, especially if the tattoos are offensive, too big, too numerous, etc.

[Peter]

naked woman near man's armpit, with hair in man's armpit serving as the naked woman's crotch

Obsolete. Unfortunately.

[Jack]

A tramp stamp can be nice if it's tasteful and you are just looking for fun. I remember I was in NYC once and I saw some hot blond with tattoos on her upper arm - it was pretty repulsive because they ruined a hot, clean-cut looking girl. Anyway I don't have any and don't want any.

[Kirk]

At school, I've noticed a trend in nerd tattoos (pi, the number 42, Tolkien-inspired, equations, dna, mc escher designs, etc). Like, "I'm smart and well-read. But edgy!"

For girls: a "tramp stamp" of the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus.
Also, an ankle tatoo of the Chain Rule.

I would find that attractive.

As for "42", I'm ashamed to admit that I don't know what it means.

[Gannon]

"Where's the stream of abuse? Isn't this Half Sigma?"

No problem

"I have a pierced bellybutton, but that's pretty mainstream."
Yeah, maybe you are talking about 15 year old girls, definitively not among ladies.

[Vim]

Kirk: it's 6 times 9.

[Kirk]

As for "42", I'm ashamed to admit that I don't know what it means.

Kirk: it's 6 times 9.

Isn't that 54? I mean, I've had eight (8) beers tonight, but I checked it on a calculator, a TI-85 no less. (It's what I also use to do my metric conversions for my posts.)

Man, I gotta start my own blog. I'm thinking of starting one when I go back to school in the Fall.

I think I'll call it "College Geezer." At the top of the main page, will be a pic taken from the top deck of one of the many parking garages of my campus. It's a pretty impressive view from up there, though it does highlight the fact that my school is a "commuter college."

Still though, shouldn't one get kudos for commuting? I mean, every time I go to school, I drive 126 miles (200 km) to get there. Still though, I maintain perfect attendance.

Anyway, I'll feature regular pics of my odometer, along with what I'll be paying for gas. And of course, everyone who posts will be required to be offensive.

[Anon]

I prefer the term hag flag to tramp stamp, since the former better conveys the usefulness of term.

Stay away from girls that have too many tattoos, since even more tattoos to see means even more men have seen them.

The worst is when some effete liberal male gets a tattoo. It only goes to prove that tattoos will not make you look tougher. A nice guy with a tattoo only looks like a tool.

I'll be blunt......I hate tattoos and piercings. The ones that look good are rare and the bad ones look really bad. Let the bikers play with tattoos, getting a dragon tattoo on your forearm does not change the fact that you work in accounting. If you don't like your life than grow some balls and make some real changes. The faux-rebel thing has really gotten old.

[SFG]

42 is a reference to Douglas' Adams Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It's a nerd in-joke.

[K]

Piece the link together and scroll down...one would think that a professional model would have the sense not to vandalize her own body, but apparently not:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/
article-1026495/
Agy-swaps-Paddington-Five-OClock-Hero.html

[K]

The Sun is reporting that Ms. Deyn's tattoos are just temporary henna. What a relief, I suppose.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/article1290829.ece

[David Alexander]

What the hell? Does it take that much effort to meet guys?

They're chasing alpha males, not beta males.

Yeah, maybe you are talking about 15 year old girls, definitively not among ladies.

Remember Gannon, 15 year old girls become "ladies".

BTW, most American parents would freak out about their teenage children's piercings. Unless we're dealing with the "bad kids", it's something that's common amongst college students and twenty-somethings.

but I checked it on a calculator, a TI-85 no less

Get with the times, go buy a TI-89. :)

Seriously, is anybody here a graphic calculator junky? I can't stand using normal and scientific calculators anymore even though I don't use any of the advanced features since I fled engineering school. I like being able to use backspace to erase mistyped numbers or being able to recall a previous calculations. My current bi-weekly budget is calculated with the aid of my TI-89 and some scraps of paper.

Still though, shouldn't one get kudos for commuting? I mean, every time I go to school, I drive 126 miles (200 km) to get there. Still though, I maintain perfect attendance.

Unless you're in a rural area of the US, I don't see what would entail the need for a nearly two hour drive to get to a commuter college? Unless you're taking some esoteric major, your state should really consider opening more schools, or maybe you should consider moving.

BTW, as a fellow commuter school student, you have my sympathies on the gas costs. It probably dwarfs the $225 per month my parents are paying to shuttle my brother into Manhattan for his schooling...

[Kirk]

Seriously, is anybody here a graphic calculator junky? I can't stand using normal and scientific calculators anymore even though I don't use any of the advanced features since I fled engineering school. I like being able to use backspace to erase mistyped numbers or being able to recall a previous calculations. My current bi-weekly budget is calculated with the aid of my TI-89 and some scraps of paper.

That's basically what I use mine for. And it is nice, having a calculator that keeps numbers even when turned off.

Unless you're in a rural area of the US, I don't see what would entail the need for a nearly two hour drive to get to a commuter college? Unless you're taking some esoteric major, your state should really consider opening more schools, or maybe you should consider moving.

I should have mentioned, that 126 miles is round-trip, so it's not all that bad. Still though, door-to-door, it's 90 minutes, so it is a bit of a haul. And while there is a satellite campus down the road, they don't have the courses I need right now. They'll have even fewer in the future, as the college had its budget cut something like 15% this year.

Regardless, I actually like going up to that big campus. It's almost like I have a second life, that no one at work knows about.

[Vim]

Seriously, is anybody here a graphic calculator junky?

Real men calculate in C.

[roissy]

if tattoos are an example of prole drift, then everyone's been infected. here in DC, i'd say 70-80% of the in-demand women have a tattoo somewhere on their bodies. the higher class and the prettier girls tend to have smaller ones in unexpected locations, probably because they innately understand the eroticism of a tattoo on a hot female body is better administered with a subtle touch than a hammer blow.

something about slightly concealed tattoos that are tasteful enough not to be unpleasant to look at, hidden piercings, and tiny ornaments like nose studs that are discovered upon closer inspection makes a girl even hotter. anything that suggests a girl is wild and uninhibited can be alluring because it leads guys to fantasize about what other crazy things she'd be into.

of course, some tattoos and piercings are completely repulsive, intentionally so or otherwise, but the majority of tats sported by girls in their peak attractiveness years leave a neutral to slutty impression with most men (sluttiness in a woman being a synonym for negative only if the man making the judgement is considering her for a long-term partner). unlike universal signals of female attractiveness -- hourglass figure, symmetry, big eyes, clear skin, youth, nice breastesses -- i don't see any male consensus on the impact of modest tattoos on a woman's sexual attractiveness. i certainly have never been dissuaded from bedding a woman just because she had a tramp stamp.

there is also the "trial by fire" aspect of getting inked. i was watching a girl get an elaborate tattoo along the side of her belly (a very sensitive area) and she was in tears, clutching her boyfriend's hand and biting down on a piece of cloth. for many people who bore easily by the daily buzz of living, the pain of the tattoo needle helps them feel alive. these types tend to get new tattoos every couple months. when pain is a source of stimulation it becomes addictive like a drug. moreso when you can advertise your pain to the world like a moral exemplar of stoic suffering.

examples of sexy tattoos:
small butterfly or similar just to the side of the pubic bone.
band around a finger or toe.
on the ass, one cheek.
back of neck, only seen when hair is lifted out of the way.
small one on upper thigh.
ankle.
wrist.

examples of slutty tattoos:
huge tramp stamp pointing future penises in the direction of her womanhood.
anywhere on the boobs.
upper arms.
belly, especially around the bellybutton.
neck (eww).
directly on the pubic area.
shins or calves.
large wingspan tattoos across the back.

as for the attractiveness of tattoos on men, there is a female consensus in my observation: chicks of all stripes generally dig them as badboy status markers and indicators of a good lay (at the very least) as long as the tats aren't a) gay looking, b) blatantly redneck or conformist (confederate flag, barbed wire or tribal, naked woman) or c) the name of an ex or artistic rendering of a contemporary male role model.

chicks dig jerks, now more than ever before, and the tattoo is a quick and cheap way to gain some badboy street cred. the tat is especially effective on the man when he reveals it "by accident" -- let's say by rolling up the sleeve of his hugo boss shirt on a hot day to expose an inner forearm tattoo -- much like a wealthy man can turn on a woman much more powerfully by not mentioning his wealth and letting her discover it for herself.

[Gannon]

I advise against tatoos because it can help the police to identify you.

I have a brand on my back that I received some years ago through a combination of alcohol, stupidity and more alcohol. But it has had some benefits. It has never ceased to impress females and I'm not especially jacked up or a badboy.

[Allison]

I'd have to say that it's not that fact of having a tattoo, but rather what it stands for and why you got it.

For example, I know someone who I would consider professional with a tattoo on her ribcage of a quoting that her grandmother said. Like the whole, if I could teach you one thing it life, it'd be blablabla.... so it had sentimental meaning twards her, wasn't in ignorance, plus it was in a place where no one would see it normally. And she's working a hospital where tattoos are strictly prohibited..

But there's also the ones who get stars on their wrists just because it was "in".. no meaning, and she'll regret it later when she wants to actually start her career.

So you see.. tattoos are up to your debate. Pick and choose wisely.

As for me, a middle aged woman, I have one tattoo. Simple, sentimental, and hidden. I wouldn't want more.. because they would show.. but I think tattoos can be acceptable if you know how to play your cards right.