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September 16, 2008

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Parse the following and tell me you don't agree that

(1) McCain's IQ *now* is <120
(2) he has *zero* grasp of economics and is just winging it
(3) Obama has at least 1-2 SD over McCain

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/mccain-calls-for-commission-to-study-wall-street-woes/?hp


“Clarify this for me,’’ Mr. Lauer said. “It doesn’t seem as if both things can be true.’’

Mr. McCain replied by saying that when he spoke about the fundamentals of the economy, he was referring to the workers – which is different from how he has described the term before.

“Well it’s obviously true that the workers of America are the fundamentals of our economy, and our strength and our future,’’ he said. “And I believe in the American worker, and someone who disagrees with that – it’s fine. We are in crisis. We all know that. The excess, the greed and the corruption of Wall Street have caused us to have a situation which is going to affect every American. We are in a total crisis.’’

Mr. Lauer asked if there was something wrong with the fundamentals of the economy that was causing the difficulty.

“There’s nothing wrong with the workers of America,’’ he said. “I believe that they’re the fundamentals. You may not, others may not. I think that the worker of America is the reason that we’ve been the preeminent economy in the world for a long, long period of time. America is in crisis today.’’

“We need a 9/11 commission, and we need a commission to figure out what went wrong and how to fix it,’’ he said. “And I know we can do it and how to do it.”

He continued the reformulation – that when he says the fundamentals of the economy, he is referring to the workers – at the rally here. “The working people of the state of Florida and this nation are the most innovative, hardest working, the best-skilled, most productive, most competitive in the world,’’ he said. “And this foundation of our economy, the American worker, is strong. But it’s been put a great risk by the greed and mismanagement of Wall Street and Washington.’’

In his remarks in Colorado Tuesday, Senator Barack Obama responded to the idea of a commission to study Wall Street’s woes: “Senator McCain offered up the oldest Washington stunt in the book – you pass the buck to a commission to study the problem. But here’s the thing – this isn’t 9/11. We know how we got into this mess. What we need now is leadership that gets us out. “

How does Obama's law school graduation status prove that he isn't a habitual liar?

I don't believe that politicians do much work because I know people that have worked for politicians. They just go to meetings and hobnob with rich people to raise money. They also drink a lot, use drugs, and sleep around. Big surprise, I know.

Illinois Machine Politicians don't go into politics to work or change anything. They go in to enrich themselves and and their campaign contributors (the big, rich ones, not the folks who donate $100).

What does Obama's IQ have to do with his policies, the same old left-wing socialist nonsense that hasn't changed for the last 50 years? Who's paying the guy off and making the real decisions? That's the relevant question.

Obama is plenty smart to be President.

"the real reason that Bush beat Kerry in 2004"

Not sure what you mean here; Bush and Kerry started out with almost identical advantages in life, and Bush, whatever his faults, is a considerably more successful man with a demonstrably superior academic record. If you think he's dumb, fine. Dumber than Kerry? Not so much.

"We know how we got into this mess. What we need now is leadership that gets us out"

Here's what worries me about guys like Obama. He's got degrees in Poli Sci and Law, with work experience in those areas. Which is to say I don't think he understands what "got us into this mess" any better than my cat does. I'm far more comfortable with the guy who admits he has no knowledge of a subject and will seek advice from someone who does than the guy who says I'm smart, so I can handle this even though I don't know squat about this subject. Bill Clinton was one of the few really brilliant people I've seen who was secure enough to admit what he didn't know and delegate. I'm not sure O is able to do that.

Steve Sailer wrote:
"Obama is plenty smart to be President."

That's uncontroversial Steve, what we really want your opinion on is if Palin smart enough to be VP.

"And all this effort put in despite the fact that voters prefer dumb candidates whom they can feel comfortable drinking beer with (the real reason that Bush beat Kerry in 2004)."

But Bush has a higher IQ than Kerry! And that's based on actual test scores, not blog posts trying to infer IQ backwards based on indicators like whether their kids go to college.

Posted by: research | September 16, 2008 at 03:21 PM

I'm not sure what your point is. Sounds like Obama and McCain both gave boilerplate responses.

"But Bush has a higher IQ than Kerry!"

I didn't say that Bush had a lower IQ than Kerry. I said that voters preferred to drink a beer with him, and the source for this is the survery cited in the linked-to article.

It doesn't matter if Obama is "plenty smart enough to be President" or not, because they don't really run much. Policy decisions are informed by huge bureaucracies with highly trained and educated people. Add in the money players of big corporations and their lobbyists, and there's little left for any President to decide on. So who really cares about IQ scores? Maybe he'll pick out a really nice design for the White House Christmas Card.

The key thing to expose on Obama is that he is the same style of bought-off liar that his competitors and predecessors are. He's no change agent. Even the uber-leftists who love the guy should ask themselves who and what he owes for payback to those who gave him $300 million dollars for his campaign.

Change and hope my ass.

People who aren't that smart probably thought Kerry was super-smart because he uses big words and talks in a convoluted way. Similarly, people probably underestimated Bush's intelligence because he speaks so terribly. Bush's problem isn't that he's dumb (although he's clearly no Obama) it's that he's intellectually incurious. Kind of like a certain Sarah Palin.

People would prefer to have a beer with a dried-out alcoholic? Cruel swine.

A lot of those leaving comments can't seem to separate an impartial discussion of Obama's IQ with a consideration of his socialist policies. Yes, a lefist president combined with a Dem majority in Congress does not bode well for our economic well-being (which is on life support as it is). When Social Security is less than 10 years away from needing to cash in some of those treasury bonds (jokingly referred to as "surplus"), with the global market no longer letting us continue to print money to cover obligations, tough decisions will need to be made, and there are two ways to go - more freedom, or more control. It doesn't take a genius to see which way Obama (and let's be honest, the vast majority of politicians, and ignorant voters) prefers.

That being said, it's ok to admit that Obama likely has a high IQ. Bobby Fischer had a very high IQ (couple SD above Obama), and he was a raving lunatic (a Jewish anti-semite, among other character traits).

tough decisions will need to be made, and there are two ways to go - more freedom, or more control.

Right, because clearly the problem with the economy is that there has been too much regulation. /sarcasm

McCain's a complete ignoramus on the economy. He'll believe whatever batshit crazy Republican "economist" tells him, the way Bush bought all the neocon bullshit.

"Right, because clearly the problem with the economy is that there has been too much regulation. /sarcasm"

Government interference in the economy created Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Government policy was that the free market didn't provide enough credit to home buyers.

Government regulations prohibited "discrimination" against minorities that actually made good business sense.

We had lots of regulation, but it was often the wrong regulations. Liberals will give us more of the wrong regulations. Only rational thinkiers, not inflicted with leftism, can produce good regulation.

"McCain's a complete ignoramus on the economy."

Please tell us what Obama's plan will be to save us...Nobody and I mean nobody has a clue and if you think the Community Organizer from CHI will make it right, you're delusional. Look at at this way, he was one of the top 4 receipients of Fannie Mae/Freddie/Mac campaign donations.

Yes, Steve, Obama's smart enough to be president, but would you want him running your software company?

Pleez!

Yes, Obama is freakishly intelligent. Agreed that Sarah P. is not going to formulate the GUT in her spare time. The interesting thing is the role they play for their respective parties.

Obama is the man of the inner party, whiter person and the lumpen minority voter. The inner party hacks couldn't care less if it was Clinton or Obama. They did care that the whiter person loons got wet and opened their wallets for St. Obama. Clinton got sucker punched on the way to her coronation, which was not surprising, what with the press in the tank for Obama and all. So all it proves is a water-walking mulatto holy man is more exciting than four years of tragic pant suits.

John McCain having sleep walked his way to the nomination with the connivance of the press was about to provide the answer to the question: What if they hold a war and nobody comes? Exit Joe Lieberman... The Republican base having shown a distinct dislike to McAmensty needed/wanted a reason to vote R, for their bit part in the big production. Palin provides that excuse or excitement or delusional hope as the case may be.

The fact that both Obama and Palin are more products of the consumers imagination than genuine statesmen, with records, principles and policies is by design. Politics are approaching a new level where it is no longer necessary for the politician to lie but one in which the populace lies to itself and is proud to do so.

I concede that if Harvard officialy confirmed that Obama graduated magna cum laude, Obama is probably pretty smart. HS, would you mind posting the email?

The email was from a trustworthy blog reader.

Believe me, I would get a lot of joy out of breaking the story that Obama has been lying about his magna cum laude.

Politics are approaching a new level where it is no longer necessary for the politician to lie but one in which the populace lies to itself and is proud to do so.

Posted by: Tired of Smoke Rings
Excellent point.

What do any of you think of Rudy Guillani? Is he a better canidate for Potus than McCain?

Sigma, the real issue is whether Obama is the brilliant person his supporters portray.

Sad facts about Obama's cognitive ability:

1. His book "The Audacity of Hope" is chock-full of bromides and socialist BS. He doesn't even know how to argue a policy point. And the book is poorly written.

2. He published NOTHING in a peer-reviewed journal while masquerading as a "law professor" at U Chicago. Brilliant people are creative and productive; not Obama.

3.

"What do any of you think of Rudy Guillani? Is he a better canidate for Potus than McCain?"

Rudy? Too ethnic. Kidding...never liked his policies, what a RINO. He should have said and done less, then I could have had visions of the anti-corruption crusader cleaning up DC.

"Please tell us what Obama's plan will be to save us...Nobody and I mean nobody has a clue and if you think the Community Organizer from CHI will make it right, you're delusional. Look at at this way, he was one of the top 4 receipients of Fannie Mae/Freddie/Mac campaign donations.

Posted by: Poor and Starvin | September 16, 2008 at 06:23 PM"

Racist!

"Racist!"

Posted by: The Undiscovered Jew

Hey, that's Jewish Atheist's job!

"Please tell us what Obama's plan will be to save us...Nobody and I mean nobody has a clue and if you think the Community Organizer from CHI will make it right, you're delusional. Look at at this way, he was one of the top 4 receipients of Fannie Mae/Freddie/Mac campaign donations.

Posted by: Poor and Starvin | September 16, 2008 at 06:23 PM"

"Racist!"


Exactly, TUJ! Can you imagine the appeal that this kind of verbal club would have in policy debates?

Obama: Sky green, grass blue.

Repub: Ah, well, a...it's actually the other way around.

Obama fanboy: Racist!

Now opposing views will not just be a matter of differing values or priorities, but, cause for moral censure. Not that this hasn't already happened. It will however amplify the tendency and provide the levers of power to true believers of various stripes.

In fairness, McCain is actually personally prone to this kind of thinking as well. He is certain that only a moral reprobate would disagree with his take on an issue. Lucky for us he lacks a significant number of fanboys. Even Half Sigma is dumping on his VP choice.

Haha, how topical, two very, very bright black guys talking about the smarts, or lack thereof, of Sarah Palin.

http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/14432?in=06:23&out=16:03

Loury is even charitable to her, offering the comforting bromide about how IQ isn't everything.

Bobby Fisher supposedly had a 184 IQ. I believe it. Let's look at Obama. I'm not impressed with his intellect at all. He would campaign in "57" states, his uncle liberated "Auschwitz", sure if his uncle was a member of the Red Army. Further, Obama did not know the Nuremberg tribunal had judges from all the victorious allies. Obama went to Occidental for his first two year of college. Look at some posts at vdare.com about Obama and Occidental. My estimate: Obama's got 120-125 IQ. I am certain "He", see I capitalized the "H" because Obama is "the promised one", ask Oprah, would not have qualified to sit in any of my IGC class as a kid! Worse, I don't think he could hold his intellectual own with the kids in my fifth-grade class. Today, not as an 11-year old. The kids in my fifth-grade class would have eaten this clown's intellectual lunch!

i started reading half sigma on a link from steve sailer's site. Over time, HS has made many interesting points, esp on mother nature worship, but this obsession on Palin/Obama IQ is crazy. borderline andrew sullivan material here, sorry, but its true.

a contender for the real issue in this election is the absence of choice for voters. the first major election since campaign finance reform and all the serious contenders are sitting senators (obama, hillary, mccain, edwards, biden). mccain and obama are both poor choices. mccain might start a nuclear war, will declare amnesty for millions of illegal aliens; obama will in all likelihood muddle through doing a great job reading teleprompter speeches written by the real top 1% of ivy league grads and not much else.

Most of obama's "success pedigree" is based on his time in academia, which is hard to take seriously. the experience for elite students at yale and harvard is not the same when affirmative action comes into play, end of story. different players, different game. when obama did not wrap himself in the sob story of his parentage, he goes to occidental, works as a copy editor at a newsletter, and both are unimpressive. when he waxes philosophical about his family history, the red sea parts and he is the healer of america's history.

i'm not saying the obama clan is stupid, but i doubt obama is any more intelligent than bush, kerry, or gore, although I would concede he is hungrier and more disciplined.

if anything, democratic STRATEGISTS are smarter than they used to be because they have learned from losing elections how best to fight back. so, axelrod knows exactly what NOT to do, and obama goes along. kerry did the same thing (shut up and listen), he just had an inferior strategist.

anon137,

"the experience for elite students at yale and harvard is not the same when affirmative action comes into play, end of story."

Did you read the darn post? With ANONYMOUS GRADING, Obama was in the top 10% of his Harvard Law School class. His exams were EXACTLY THE SAME as those of non-affirmative action admits.

"but i doubt obama is any more intelligent than bush, kerry, or gore,"
http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

Bush and Kerry are in the low-mid 120s, Gore in the 130s, and the available data indicates Obama is somewhat above Gore.

Please at least try to engage with reality: empiricism, statistics, and probability theory are good starting points.

Half,

When are you going to come to your senses and start supporting Obama?

A lot of you guys have questionable knowledge, if not intelligence when you talk about nonsense things like Obama's gaffs or lack of knowledge about WWII.

None of that has anything to do with the Hardware in his head. You are talking about his software, which can be upgraded.

One of the most intelligent men in America, Christopher Michael Langan has an IQ of 195. LET ME REPEAT, 195 was a bouncer in 1999 at the age of 42.

"He took a string of labor-intensive jobs, and by his mid-40s had been a construction worker, cowboy, forest service firefighter, farmhand, and for over twenty years, a bouncer on Long Island."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan

Not an accomplished individual and I would bet her has a higher IQ than anyone who has ever posted on this site.

IQ figures become almost meaningless beyond 160. By definition only 0.00003 of the population is out beyond 160, that is one out of 33,000 people. Most tests are normed on a few thousand people tops. IQ's depend on norms, you need people to get norms. To norm at test at this high of a level you would have to administer it to at least 300,000 people. Every Mensa style high IQ test beyond 160 is pure bullshit.

To get good norms at 195 you would have to administer the test to just about every human on the plant.

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