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April 14, 2009

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To add to the ick factor, the Skadden associates who take this offer are guaranteed to have their jobs kept for them, in other words they will be immune from any layoffs which occur during their absence. Associates who don't take this offer and remain at work have no such immunity.

There is a law firm occupying several floors in the building where I work, and a bit of research after we moved in last year revealed that it's considered a BIGLAW firm. A signboard in the lobby lists the names of its lawyers ... suffice to say that the number of names has gotten noticeably smaller over the past several months.

"What we can say is that members of this class have value transference capital, and it’s this value transference capital which allows this class to be far richer than the value they create with their labor."

I guess the associates might fall into this class?

Must be infuriating for those recently laid off staff lawyers to read that those a few years ahead get a year off on $80k.

Why is this disgusting? I'd do the same if it was my law firm. You can't fire them, because you'll be losing status and once you lose status, you lose business. You can't hire them, because there isn't much work. So, pay them less for doing nothing. :)

I don't see what the problem is. Of course I would be disgusted if this was a government agency giving its employees year long vacations.

But why shouldn't a law firm choose how it wants to reward its employees? If they want to give them a year off instead of offering them a big bonus, where's the problem?

If your issue is with excessive compensation for lawyers, the ideal solution would be for the government to raise corporate taxes on law firms so that they can't give their associates such absurd perks.

HS:
What's your problem with this? Why does it disgust you?

[She would like to teach English to monks in Sri Lanka and possibly help bring solar power to remote parts of the Himalayas.]

Classic SWPL. Goofy lawyer.

I can imagine the scene:

A bevy of Skadden associates arrive at a remote village in the Himalayas bearing solar power components and fair trade espresso beans, but the villagers, forewarned, drive them off with pitchforks.

Worked a summer job at an ALCOA smelter 40 years ago. They had a plan where every five years instead of your normal 2-3 week vacation, you got 3 months off. Full pay. So you could travel the world, sit home on your dead ass, or whatever turned you on. It was mandatory to take it. The program applied from the janitors on up thru senior management. Some folks even went out and got short term jobs to kill the time. Don't know if ALCOA still has this...

Would you really want to have a power system of any type built by New York lawyers?

"But why shouldn't a law firm choose how it wants to reward its employees? If they want to give them a year off instead of offering them a big bonus, where's the problem?"

It's not a reward or an alternative to bonuses, it's a way to cut costs without laying off people.

"She would like to teach English to monks in Sri Lanka and possibly help bring solar power to remote parts of the Himalayas."

Gee, I wonder which class she was born into? I don't know which class annoys me more. The lower class or the upper class?

Lower class: "Dallas Cowboys f'n rule!...I'm 19 and going to be a daddy! Dallas Cowboys!" *spits in public and usually yells at kids while in the grocery store*

Upper class: "I'm going to Haverford College to get an Art History degree; I'm going travel to Europe and write a book about its Art and culture."

"This disgusts me on so many levels."

How can you muster disgust?

The program itself isnt bad, and the concept of this unmarried 36yo lawyer wandering around installing solar panels in "remote parts of the Himalayas" (as opposed to the overly commercialized parts) is so much the loopy adult equivalent of a girl drawing ponies on all her papers that I dont see anyone could react with anything other than snickers.

Besides, have we run the number on how much it would take to get all the lawyers out of the country?

I sense a lot of jealousy. Most of the posters on this board work for bosses that don't appreciate them.

Most bosses, if they don't have enough work to keep the staff busy for a year, will just fire some of the staff members. In fact if most of the people on this board were not needed they would be fired

The head of skadden obviously values the associates as a group a lot - enough so that he doesnt want to get a reputation for terminating associates.

Face it - many of the people with money and power in our society are thrilled to pay high legal fees in order to get skadden to do work for them instead of paying low legal fees in order to get some mid level law firm.

people pay skadden the high fees because skadden has the lawyers from the top tier law schools.

let me be more clear - - if the people posting here had the IQ and the work skills to graduate law review from a top five law school, the people posting here would probably be appreciated by their bosses and would be treated to the same benefits as this young woman from skadden.
But the people here just couldn't make the cut and as such are not valued as much by their bosses.
this board is sour grapes - not sour grapes from losers but sour grapes from RELATIVE losers, losers when you compare them to skadden lawyers.

why don't you sore losers look on the bright side? even though you are not appreciated like the skadden associates are you are still pretty well off

**the concept of this unmarried 36yo lawyer wandering around installing solar panels in "remote parts of the Himalayas" (as opposed to the overly commercialized parts) is so much the loopy adult equivalent of a girl drawing ponies on all her papers that I dont see anyone could react with anything other than snickers. **

Given that we're dealing with liberal arts types who for all intents and purposes would fail out of an engineering class, and may lack business acumen, I suspect that this is really the best they can do, and for them, it gives their live some type of meaning that partying all day may just not deliver. In other words, what do you want them to do in lieu of this activity?

"But the people here just couldn't make the cut and as such are not valued as much by their bosses."

If one wasn't BORN into the right class, then they're not even given a chance. Unless you're one of those optimistic saps that actually believe everybody, from the moment of birth, has the same opportunity as the child born to a wealthy blue blood couple in Connecticut.

Besides, one doesn't need to be a genius in order to be a BIGLAW lawyer. All you need is proof of leadership. And we all know how stupid "leaders" can be.

"unmarried 36yo lawyer"

The blogosphere being the blogosphere, I'm mildly surprised that there haven't been snarky comments concerning Ms. Eisenlord's unmarried and childless status.

nothing man, you are obviously a troll

if you spent any time among biglaw lawyers you would see a number of chinese americans whose great grandpas came here as coolies to build the railroads.

they were treated little better than slaves.

nothing man, I call BS on your comments that America offers no opportunity to people born in the wrong class. The success of Chinese immigrants proves you wrong

Go take an IQ test. Chances are that your IQ is not at the level required to reach law review at a top law school. Look in the mirror for the reason the average law review person from a top tier school makes more money than you

"if the people posting here had the IQ and the work skills to graduate law review from a top five law school, the people posting here would probably be appreciated by their bosses and would be treated to the same benefits as this young woman from skadden."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

Funny joke! Just remember, you're posting here along with the rest of us! You're obviously not working for a top tier law firm either, or else you wouldn't have the time to even bother posting.

Is there a billing code for "Reading Half Sigma Blog"? I can't remember?

"The blogosphere being the blogosphere, I'm mildly surprised that there haven't been snarky comments concerning Ms. Eisenlord's unmarried and childless status."

Well, just read peter @10:43 AM's comments. Apply his logic about employers hiring people with high IQ and work skills to Ms. Eisenlord's attractability to men. There's your answer!

If flakiness was what men were looking for in a woman, Ms. Eisenlord would have been married a long time ago. But we don't live in a bizarro universe.

Wade
your post is of course correct.

But it doesn't change the fact that there is upward mobility in America for people born with exceptionally high IQ.

Spent any time in Silicon valley? The place is filled with millionaires whose grandparents were dirt poor.

Typical pattern - immigrant comes to America with super high IQ and no ability to speak English. Immigrants works crappy job. Saves and scrimps so that children can go to medical school.

Children go to medical school - then the NEXT generation starts a technology company and makes millions

There is upward mobility if you are born with high IQ (read : born Northeast Asian or born Brahmin) If you don't have the IQ that a Northeast Asian or a Brahmin has, you have only your genes to blame.

This board is filled with white people that harp all the time on how low IQ causes the NAMs to do worse than whites. Fair enough. But then when, by the same rules, minorities with much higher IQs start getting law review at top schools and making serious coin, those same white people piss and moan and complain. Face it - if you are not a multi millionaire it might be because you were born with an IQ that doesn't quite cut it

***In other words, what do you want them to do in lieu of this activity?***

She's a woman. On this blog, that means there's nothing she could possibly do that wouldn't draw jeers and laughs. Stay at home mom? Idiot if her husband's poor, whore if her husband's rich. Make a good career? Terrible mother if she has children, frigid ice queen if she doesn't. Charity? Goofy SWPL if she does, greedy bitch if she doesn't. Nothing a woman does will please this crowd; they hate women, probably mostly from frustration.

"e the IQ that a Northeast Asian or a Brahmin has"

-this whole Brahmin thing needs to be properly understood, especially when dealing with the Indians in america. To begin, a lot of the Indians in America are Gujarati. Ever heard the surname Patel? That is decidedly NOT a Brahmin surname. In fact, it is not either a Kshatriya or Vaishya surname. And guaranteed there are lot of Patel physicians stateside.

There is way too much emphasis placed by whites on IQ and genetics. A lot of high IQ whites are located on Wall Street and D.C, but they will be bringing to bankruptcy the world's largest economy. Is that due to their IQ? No, it is due to their character - the IQ just makes the means by which they go about destroying the economy more complex; the end result is the same even if there is all sorts of obfuscation and confusion.

"She's a woman. On this blog, that means there's nothing she could possibly do that wouldn't draw jeers and laughs....blah blah blah....."

Complaining about those who complain makes one a complainer also.

Posted by: Joshua Holmes | April 15, 2009 at 12:25 PM

Just like a woman.

Well it is disgusting.

http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=45&bioID=3418

Ms. Eisenlord's Skadden bio indicates she's a nice Midwestern gal. In 1962, she'd have contributed her high IQ genes to the human race. Now she's wasting her energies on complete fantasy.

Whew, thats the Peter we know and love. The other poster had me thrown.

Here is more info on her:
http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2009/04/saginaws_arthur_hill_high_scho_2.html
"There isn't much chance Eisenlord's world tour will bring her to her hometown, her father said.

"When she fled Saginaw, that was pretty much it," he said. "She's been big city ever since she graduated. Saginaw does not hold much appeal for her any longer."

Heather Eisenlord graduated 14th in her Arthur Hill class of 587 students. Between her freshman and sophomore years at Michigan State University, she worked in a fish factory in Bethel, Alaska, her father said. She spent the next summer on a beach in Costa Rica.

The former Arthur Hill cheerleader has studied in Moscow and London and spent the summer after college graduation backpacking across Europe.

The only time Eisenlord comes home is for Christmas visits, her father said.

"I can't say I blame her," said the Thomas Township resident. "There isn't too much left here."

After graduating from MSU in 1996, Eisenlord lived in New Orleans for a few years, working as a waitress and hostess in restaurants to earn money for law school. She studied at George Washington University in Washington, D.C., where she finished near the top of her class, her father said."

Given the her work has limited her social life the last 6 years I'd think the sabbatical would be a good chance for her do some schooling and move closer to getting married. Taking her self off the marriage market for a year in south east asia isnt an obvious choice.

Maybe she doesnt need my dating advice... but her oddball travel plans are still amusing.

Ms. Eisenlord should go to Tibet to help the Tibetans build a democracy and to protest PRC oppression. Nothing but a fantastic experience with authentic people in their daily lives as they struggle to achieve what we take for granted every day. I'm sure the Tibetans could use a few lawyers. What could go wrong?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8aJGwh5RRk

"if you spent any time among biglaw lawyers you would see a number of chinese americans whose great grandpas came here as coolies to build the railroads."

Key word there: GREAT grandpas. Still can't ignore the important role class plays in America. And how many of those BIGLAW lawyers prepped at the right schools from day 1?

Next, you'll probably use Oprah as an example to prove your point.

"Next, you'll probably use Oprah as an example to prove your point."

That's Linda's job.

"people pay skadden the high fees because skadden has the lawyers from the top tier law schools.

let me be more clear - - if the people posting here had the IQ and the work skills to graduate law review from a top five law school, the people posting here would probably be appreciated by their bosses and would be treated to the same benefits as this young woman from skadden.
But the people here just couldn't make the cut and as such are not valued as much by their bosses.
this board is sour grapes - not sour grapes from losers but sour grapes from RELATIVE losers, losers when you compare them to skadden lawyers.

why don't you sore losers look on the bright side? even though you are not appreciated like the skadden associates are you are still pretty well off"

Posted by: peter | April 15, 2009 at 10:43 AM

OK, I have a question, Sigma: Is "Peter" your sock puppet?

I have a friend who works for Skadden, and he even invited me to his office a couple of times. What I know about Skadden is that it's a typical factory, but on the upside, according to my friend, the people who work there are incredibly nice--so this vacation info does not surprise me.

Law is not a profession for creative geniuses, so I dispute your argument that paying big bucks for Big Law is wise, especially if you are referring to contracts.

My experience tells me that most people are valued by their bosses, so this BS about being unappreciated rings false to me.

And WTF is a "Skadden" lawyer?

I'll tell you: they spell well and make good money. Can they create value?

Naaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

"if you spent any time among biglaw lawyers you would see a number of chinese americans whose great grandpas came here as coolies to build the railroads."--Abe

That's true, but seldom will you see them make partner.

And how does one make partner in Big Law?

Family connections--lots of them.

.

"...the people who work there are incredibly nice..."

Thanks for the info. But let's cut to the important shit. Are the babes that work there cute? Any hot moms? That's what we need to know. And to me "Skadden" sounds like a couch sold at Ikea.

Thanks for the info. But let's cut to the important shit. Are the babes that work there cute? Any hot moms? That's what we need to know. And to me "Skadden" sounds like a couch sold at Ikea. --PRC

Babes are all over New York, even in law firms. Best nookie can be found in:

1. television/motion picture businesses
2. public relations
3. publishing/magazines--check out Conde Nast's cafeteria (no erections allowed--pisses the hotties off)
4. real estate
5. advertising (for some reason, birds in this biz must have a perfect rack to get hired)

Do try the Frank Gehry-designed Conde Nast cafeteria--better than a lap dance

Posted by: Brutus | April 15, 2009 at 04:08 PM

Of course NYC is full of attractive women, but what about Skadden specifically? That was my question. And how's the coffee?

PS, I'm not really a member of PRC State Security #344 nicknamed the "Red Dragons." That's just what I would imagine one of the PRC police units beating on Tibetans would be called. I actually live in the People's Republic of New Jersey.

Coffee is average--but few companies have good coffee (unless you consider Starbucks good).

No recollection of relative attractiveness of the woman. Generally both male and female lawyers possess above-average looks. Think of Clinton or Ally McBeal. Being fat is looked down upon in law--being a fatty is not a good plan if you want to make partner.

My guess is that if you visited Skadden's NY offices, you'd want to spray about 120 breasts (that's about 60 women for the NAMs). You will find these lovelies among the secreatries, legal assistants, and lawyers.

"Generally both male and female lawyers possess above-average looks."

As a lawyer working in NZ I can confirm the same applies here. I wonder if there's some correlation between high verbal ability & attractiveness?

Presumably being strong in this area would have conferred an advantage in getting hotties?

"I'm mildly surprised that there haven't been snarky comments concerning Ms. Eisenlord's unmarried and childless status."

I think men need to accept a large portion of the blame for intelligent women not getting married. I think many would like to, but guys there age aren't ready to settle down.

Firstly of course lawyers have above average looks. High IQ people look after themselves physically AND it is also a profession that has a high human interaction component.

Secondly something I have noticed about succesful professional women. They generally have very high intelligence, drive, and social skills. However they also have many childlike (childish) traits.

This makes sesne from an HBD perspective (neoteny is linked to intelligence). But it is strange that this phenomenon is much more pronounced in women (ie high IQ often goes with low emotional maturity)

"Secondly something I have noticed about succesful professional women. They generally have very high intelligence, drive, and social skills. However they also have many childlike (childish) traits."

"Secondly, something I have noticed about women. They have many childlike (childish) traits."

There, fixed that for you.

I noticed a couple of things about Ms. Eisenlord.

She went to Michigan State, a very mediocre undergrad. She must have done pretty shitty on the SAT to end up there, and not even get into Michigan. So I don't know if her IQ is that high. GW is a good but not great law school, and she was able to finish very high in the class. But the fact that she went to Michigan State makes me wonder how smart she is.

As someone noted, two generations ago she would have met a nice boy in Michigan and would now be a housewife with 4 kids. So her fairly high IQ genes would be transferred. Now, she's an almost barren lawyer who's about to travel to fucking Nepal for a year instead of doing what she should - finding a beta to at least give her one kid. Stories like this are why our society and country are declining. Then at 42 or so she'll probably look back and regret not having kids.

She certainly seems naive.

Female lawyers are attractive? Huh? Not compared to other upper-class women.

One confounding factor is that well-educated women with managerial or professional jobs actually aren't less likely to be married or have children than other women. It is a case where the conventional wisdom isn't correct.

Six-week fully paid sabbaticals aren't uncommon at certain Silicon Valley high tech firms. It isn't just a law firm thing.

What get's me is her apparent assumption that you just rock up and teach English. Nowadays, there is a lot of stuff about the best way to teach EFL (English as a Foreign Language).

Is the lady taking a course in EFL or just being a dilettante?

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