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June 02, 2009


Or a noun and an adjective, I guess.

It could be a verb maybe -- "Boy, they really SWPLed that gun law through the legislature" or something like that.

Can I have your job, Half Sigma? You seem to spend a lot of time during business hours posting! Then again, I am on the internet surfing (Google incognito) for 6 of 8 hours a day.

When I first saw this I thought it meant Single White Politically Liberal. Or maybe South Western Poverty Lawyers.

There's no doubt SWPLs, perhaps especially on the West coast, have some relation to bohemianism, but "bohemian" is marginal as a primary descriptor of SWPLdom. After all, don't SWPLs also bear some relationship to bourgiouse-dom - including bourgious disapproval of extreme bohemianism? There are plenty of artist types, almost invariably far left (indeed, much farther than SWPLs), who jump freight trains habitually, get almost all of their food and materials from dumpsters, are not only polyamorous but ideologically so, do not own deodorant, and/or keep all their private possession in 4 x 8' bedrooms. I think it would be much preferable in terms of SWPL cachet to be transitorily acquainted with such people, rather than know them or be them.

"Real" bohemians - not all, but many of them anyway - would come close to looking down on the purchase of yoga lessons; they get their yoga lessons for free from blissed out hippies who hitchhiked through India in the 90s, no filthy lucre tendered. I may as well fess up, if it's not obvious, that I'm personally somewhat more sympathetic to bohos than SWPLs - or would /like/ to be, if only their politics weren't quite a bit worse still than the SWPLs' politics.

I appreciate that these typologies blur together somewhat, making the distinctions fairly subjective.

Were William Burrough, author of naked lunch, a SWPL ?

The whole SWPL thing is a status marker - I mean being SWPL is about giving you a chance to look down on the "uncool" people. Someone from the old wasp elite (the rapidly shrinking old wasp elite) that has high IQ but doesn't know enough to feign concern for the environment and the other SWPL mannerisms can be looked down on.

One thing that unites the SWPL types with 2 kids and the non SWPL elites with 2 kids is the intense desire for nannies -

The best thing I have read so far in 2009 on HBD is the following comment - because it gets to the heart of why EVEN those people who know in their heart and in their mind that HBD is true - even those people that will ADMIT that HBD is true are still strongly in favor of massive immigration from Latin America.

I would go so far as to say that VERY few of the HBD fans on this site are high income people with two or more kids. I bet that the people on this site are mostly like you, Half (childless) or perhaps are in the income class that prevents them from hiring nannies.

If you went to a top 14 law school and are making 200 thousand a year, Roissy's advice to you is to date a few hundred brainless Eastern European supermodels. If you must get married, Roissy suggests you marry some "10" with old fashioned values - ie a girl who wants to do all the cleaning and child rearing herself with no domestic help.

But not a single one of the 200 thousand a year plus professionals I know in Manhattan, Boston, or San Francisco followed Roissy's advice. Not a single one. They are all married to women who see themselves as modern highly educated professionals. EVERY SINGLE ONE of their wives have given them a choice - hubby hires a nanny or hubby does tons of child care himself.

Sorry Half but I have to say that many of the people on this blog, on the Roissy blog, on Steve Sailer's blog don't live in the world of highly paid professionals and just don't understand how pervasive nannies are EVEN AMONG THOSE HARD CORE REPUBLICANS THAT MAKE OVER 200k

The HBD movement needs to come up with a program that gives the elite of america their foreign nannies and still ends all immigration from latin america

But be realistic. The policy makers in Washington - in both political parties - have nannies working for their family.

This is just as true on the Republican side as on the democratic side - just about every Republican Senator, Congressman, and Supreme court justice has daughters, nieces, or nephews that depend on nannies.

I am a race realist, but I am also a realist. We are in a race against time - our nation is going down the tubes. We have to throw a bone to the thought leaders of America who use nannies. And the business leaders who use nannies. Even the people that work at the conservative think tanks use nannies.

I don't know what will work, but I know that the current path will not work.

If you get out in to big cities all over our country and talk to the successful people in America - the people that are at the top of their professions and the people that are making incomes in the top 10% you will find that the desire for a nanny is pretty strong.

Now the argument has frequently been made that somehow the people not in the top 10%, the broad middle of America that doesn't use nannies will rise up against the elite - but I just don't think that is going to happen. Never has happened in American history. If the HBD and race realist meme wants to win, it has to convert a chunk of the American elite over to the HBD point of view.

The only way to do that is to solve the nanny problem

"Were William Burrough, author of naked lunch, a SWPL ?"

Burroughs was without a doubt a SWLP. He was a spoiled A-hole full of pretentiousness. Smart enough for many things, but chose to be a loser.

"His parents, upon his graduation, had decided to give him a monthly allowance of $200 out of their earnings from Cobblestone Gardens, a tidy sum in those days. It was enough to keep him going, and indeed it guaranteed his survival for the next twenty-five years, arriving with welcome regularity. The allowance was a ticket to freedom; it allowed him to live where he wanted to and to forgo employment.[8]"

Any idea why SWPL has replaced the apparently synonymous bo-bo (bourgeois bohemian) coined by David Brooks?

[HS: Probably because Christian Lander's 100% free website is better and more satirical and funnier than David Brooks' book which you have to pay to read.]

Really, Paavo - being unemployed is a SWPL ideal?

Brooks' description is more accurate than Sig's because it takes note of the anti-bohemian strand in SWPL-dom.

I see no connection between bohemians and SWPLs. I've only heard that on this site. SWPLs are better described as Liberal Hipsters.

"Hipster" /is/ bohemian. At least it is today in America (I'm not certain where you are from of course). Apparently "bohemian" comes from european artists, whereas looking in wikipedia I see that "hipster" comes from avant-garde jazz in the american 1940s. But there's practically no difference now, except that hipster is considerably more likely to be pejorative.

The only place I've seen SWPL used in this way is here, and when you use it, I've always heard "sweeple".

There are plenty of examples of populist revolts overturning the elites: Andrew Jackson, 1828. Lincoln, 1860. Ike, 1952. Proposition 13, mid 1970's. [THAT was the big one.] Ronald Reagan, 1980.

What makes things different NOW is that women are allied with the elites. Even women who don't have kids now want the option for nannies. And want blue collar White men, and increasingly White collar White men, driven out of the workplace.

They themselves face little competition from immigrant labor. And it's PC -- women are ground zero for PC.

The key is women. Peel them off from elites and the support for the status quo collapses.

You must be a real hit with the ladies, whiskey.

Whiskey - both you and jewishathiest blame most of America's problems on women.

How many of the people on this blog sort of fit the mold of the leaders of our country - that is married with two kids, ivy degree, making six figures?

I am starting to get the sense that the people on this board are different not just in their thinking but in their life style

I hate to admit it, but I like certain aspects of SWPL culture.

For instance, most SWPL chicks are thin because they are eat healthy or are vegetarians/vegans. SWPLs also like to go to farmer's markets, outdoor indie rock concerts, go hiking, etc.

I guess because a lot of SWPLs are middle or upper-middle class I like their culture more than run-of-the-mill conservative culture.

Conservatism seems boring and prole for some reason. I guess it is tied back to Nixon's "Southern Strategy," but conservatives seem to be dead set on portraying themselves as rednecks.

As for whether SWPL = white, educated bohemian, I would say that a lot of SWPLs like to pretend they are bohemian. They adopt certain bohemian trends like listening to eclectic music, wearing clothing made from hemp and using holistic medicine, but for the most part they only ape these trends to some degree. They are not really bohemians, but they like to co-op certain aspects of bohemian lifestyle.

The truth is that SWPL culture is a new type of upper-middle class culture that has come to replace the preppy culture that was once so common among the upper-middle class. I guess you could call it "Preppy Bohemianism," if that makes any sense.

No way Bohemian = hipster. As King Obama says, hipsters are on the high end of middle class. They have real (usually "cool") jobs. Bohemians are artist types who make very little. I'm not sure if there are any Bohemians anymore. I guess aspiring actors might qualify.

The people on this site caught on pretty quickly to something many other people on the right, that the bobos aren't bohemian at all, pretty much straight yuppies who ape some aspects of what has become known as bohemian culture. Hipsters are just bobos in their early 20s. There are so many people on the right who treat these people as some sort of communists but they are actually quite to the right on economic issues.

On economics, both Clinton and Obama pretty much adopted the policies of the previous Bush administrations so this is reflected in politics.

I have to say - Roissy's advice as described above is completely ridiculous. Never in European history have elite men wanted maids and domestics as wives. Marrying a "10" who cooks and cleans is a good way to invite scorn from the other men at your golf club. No one is more ridiculed behind his back than the loser who gets a mail order bride. You might have a woman like that as your mistress, you never marry her. Having an "accomplished" wife is a badge of honor in the elite world - it shows you're man enough to keep her interested.

Well, OK, I can /sorta/ see those shadings for "hipster" and "bohemian," now that yall mention it.

King Obama, I don't think anyone necessarily sees SWPL-dom as a true and manifest nadir overall. It's just that conservative and right-libertarian thinking just don't even exist for SWPL; they are philosophies that are so diabolical and so tragically unhip that they can't possibly be thought about. This adds up to a certain smugness not seen in lefties from the old-school middle class, today's lower middle class, or the old preppie upper-middle and upper classes. It's fun to point up the hypocrisies, vanities, and groupthink of a system of thought that is a bit more hypocritical and a lot more self-assured than the average system, and which seems to be something of a bad portent for level-headed, yeoman-like american pragmatism.

"Having an "accomplished" wife is a badge of honor in the elite world - it shows you're man enough to keep her interested."

For all practical purposes, if you're seeking approval from the SWPL crowd you are an SWPL yourself. There is a reason the term "trophy wife" is used to describe a cute 20-something in good shape, not a 40-plus career woman. The reason those SWPLs at the country club resent you is not disdain, it's jealousy.

The "career woman" is, by definition, not an ideal wife or mother. While politicians might seek a careerist wife to plead their case to the female constituency, any other high-status man will seek out an intelligent, family-oriented woman to ensure the best possible outcomes for his progeny.

I thought most of the commenters on this site acknowledged that the elites are the most tragically perverse and destructive force in society. To suggest that one ought to make major life decisions to gain their approval, above creating a happy family, is a tacit approval of the elites' value system.

"It's just that conservative and right-libertarian thinking just don't even exist for SWPL; they are philosophies that are so diabolical and so tragically unhip that they can't possibly be thought about."

The only form of libertarianism that isn't hip among the SWPL is paleo-libertarianism. If you read Reason then you want to legalize drugs and prostitution, therefore, you are cool. But you become uncool if you read Reason and vote for the GOP. The Republican party is the epitome of uncool and that is why Meghan McCain is on the airwaves trying to reform the GOP so she can look cool to her friends.

"No one is more ridiculed behind his back than the loser who gets a mail order bride. You might have a woman like that as your mistress, you never marry her. Having an "accomplished" wife is a badge of honor in the elite world - it shows you're man enough to keep her interested."

Status is everything. If your wife is foreign and not a model, entrepreneur, or minor nobility, then you will be ridiculed because she wasn't wealthy before she met you. You give off the impression that you bought her. You will have to bring her to parties and dinners and she will need to be able to speak intelligently, know proper etiquette, and dress tastefully. Sure you can teach an Eastern Bloc farm girl some of this stuff, but inevitably, she will not know how to deal with people who are so clearly out of her league at these types of functions. She will also have to constantly lie about her background so that she doesn't embarass you and herself in front of these people.

"Really, Paavo - being unemployed is a SWPL ideal?"

Well SWPL's usually don't call it "unemployed". They call it having a liberal arts degree from Brown or Berkeley and being a "photographer" while performing vacuous slam poetry, living in San Francisco.

IMO, SWPL is basically a hipster.

Half - can you tell us more about the readership of your blog -

how many of the readers of your blog fit the profile of the "winners" and leaders you see around Manhattan and the Hamptons -

couples in which both the man and the woman went to an Ivy, woman worked for a few years in big law or I banking or something with similar prestige before downshifting to something with prestige but fewer hours - Man still working in some field that pays more that 200 or 300 k -

You may like these people or hate them but they do run the country. They are the cognitive elite -

Are they on this site ? Cause I am thinking with all this talk about Roissy and Vdare they run screaming the other way when they see this.

Perhaps we need three HBD sites - VDARE for the proles, Half Sigma for the upper middle types, and a third site that the above leadership class can feel proud of

The problem I have with SWPL is that people here seem to be using it to describe any white person they don't like - a 25 year old vegan hipster in SF is SWPL - that I get. But a 35 year old ivy league i-banker in Philadelphia married to a 34 year old Princeton grad lawyer who both vote Republican but drive Volvos and shop at Whole Foods and have a Latina nanny? - is that SWPL or just yuppy? People here seem confused. What about a 40 year old white management consultant from Yale living in Boston area whose wife has a degree from MIT and homeschools their kids, votes Democrat but goes to Catholic church regularly, eats locally grown foods, dislikes rap music and most popular culture and opposes abortion? All these people like sushi (really, other than a few provincial black people, at this point who doesn't?) and more or less think climate change are real. Are they all SWPL? These are all examples from real life.

[HS: SWPL has become the predominant culture of whites with elite educational backgrounds. That's what Christian Lander was getting at.]

Half - the despicable loser Cleburne just slammed you. Prepare for the entire "majority rights" and "stormfront" crowd to start posting on this site and messing it up.

I hate to say it but you may need to monitor this carefully and end all anon posts if the legions losers troll up your site too much

Would it be possible to have trusted users who can post real-time conversations and anonymous users who can't?

As a last resort, I mean ... I certainly prefer it open to everyone like it is now.

[HS: I'm limited by Typepad. As soon as the Stormfront people go away, I'll open up the comments again.]

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