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November 17, 2009

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"My response to Eugene Volokh is that sex between a 17-year-old boy and an adult is a great benefit to the 17-year-old boy, because it boosts his self esteem and confidence with women, and assures that he won’t become the most despised and ridiculed of all men: the virgin."

Absolutely agree with your as usual impeccable logic.

Hell, I think it should be legal for an older woman to have sex with a 14 year old boy. There is no evidence 14 year old boys are in any way psychologically or physically harmed by having sex with a woman over 18.

Quite the opposite - if the star 15 year old soccer player is having sex with the smokin' hot and horny 28 year old French language teacher, you know he's bragging to *all* his friends and feels absolutely great about himself.

However, I would not make it legal to have sex with a girl under 16 though because teenage girls are hardwired differently than teenage boys.

When I was 22 I had a fling with a 38 year old woman for about a month. It was great! We both knew it was just sexual and there were no hangups. I never regretted it for a second and learned a few things too. It would've been even better at 17, but I was only getting other teenage girls at 17. (That wasn't too bad for my self-esteem either).

I've never understood the crazy reactions people have now to teenage boys having sex with older women. My friends and I all wished we could pull that off back then. It reminds me of a South Park episode where a kid was having sex with his hot teacher and it got reported to the police. The detective said:

"Let's go find that kid so we can give him his Luckiest Boy in the World award."

I think it can be a positive experience.

It seems to me there is a positive feedback loop for men with sexual attraction. If women are attracted to a man, he will feel more confident and comfortable around women which will make him more attractive to women.

On the other hand, if a guy does not experience women being attracted to him, the opposite is likely to occur. Not only that, but on the few occasions when a woman is interested, the guy is likely to show too much interest and blow it.

That said, it's probably bad if the guy is too young (Probably for most men, 17 is not too young.) Also, it depends on one's cultural milieu. In 21st century secular America there is much more of a stigma with being a virgin than with having sexual experience. Especially for men but even for women too.

Sometimes I think we would be better off as a society if we followed the religious model of stigmatizing premarital sex for men and women both.

When I was 17 and lived in a group home I had sex a few times with this hot 25 year old who worked there. I kept it pretty hush hush. Haven't had all that much success with the ladies since, but I wouldn't blame that on the experience.

Except there's that pesky possibility of becoming a father at 16.

I wish it happened to me. It may have helped me with women. I grew up in a very religious family and it ruined me. Religion can destroy your life beyond comprehension. I was so repressed, I don't know if I could have done it back then if a woman had come on to me.

early sex for a young man is god's work. it will instill alpha values and an alpha attitude in him. and really the best age to cut your teeth on a cougar is when you're too inexperienced to have younger poon to unfavorably compare it to.

"On the other hand, if a guy does not experience women being attracted to him, the opposite is likely to occur."

correct. bitter betas aren't born, they're made.

"Except there's that pesky possibility of becoming a father at 16."

most women are smart enough not to attempt the ol' pregnancy entrapment trick on a teenager with zero resources or social status. and abortion is just a morning after pill away.

"Except there's that pesky possibility of becoming a father at 16."

... which is also a possibility if a 16-year-old has sex with another 16-year-old. Actually it's probably more likely, since an older woman is more likely to be on the pill than a teenage girl.

" I grew up in a very religious family and it ruined me. Religion can destroy your life beyond comprehension. "

This is unbelievably true. I grew up in a radically traditional household and didn't have any experience at all until I was 19. It shattered my confidence and I didn't pick up on a woman's true desires until I was about 23. Even after all of this I'm still your run of the mill beta male.

"This is unbelievably true. I grew up in a radically traditional household and didn't have any experience at all until I was 19."

I think that can work if the entire community follows the religious model. i.e. if young men and women court eachother through the church or synagogue with the guidance of their parents. In that case, it doesn't matter so much if a guy is not alpha enough.

The problem comes in when women start deciding on their own who they will have relationships with.

Just my humble opinion.

Most of the guys it ever happened to who told me about it, the woman screwed with their mind. Usually she was crazy. This didn't just go for underaged guys, but guys in their late teens or early 20s with women several years older. But all I have are anecdotes.

Speaking of older women - I do believe it's time for another round of Palin-bashing blog entries. Whaddya say?

On the subject of paternity test, I was under the impression that paternity problems correlate with IQ. In other words, if you are an IQ 130 man married to an IQ 130 woman, the odds of your children not REALLY being your children are less than 1 % but if you are an IQ 90 man married to an IQ 90 woman the odds are 10%

Therefore, the lower your IQ and the lower your wife's IQ the more you should worry.

"This is unbelievably true. I grew up in a radically traditional household and didn't have any experience at all until I was 19."

I think that can work if the entire community follows the religious model. i.e. if young men and women court eachother through the church or synagogue with the guidance of their parents. In that case, it doesn't matter so much if a guy is not alpha enough.

The problem comes in when women start deciding on their own who they will have relationships with.

Just my humble opinion."

Yes, if the vast majority follow it, then it might work,but if the other kids from religious families are doing it, then it breaks down. The sexual revolution has only hurt the average guy and empowered women.

I am much older than 19 and have not had many relationships to say the least. I blame this on religion in part.

In these femimists times has anybody been asked out by a women? I never gotten a first move from a woman after the 8th grade. That's kind of funny.

*Could* it be good? Yeah depending on the kid.

But in general a young kid who has been taught to respect the authority of adults being coherence into sex by someone who is likely depraved is not going to be a good situation for him.

Why do we have this romantic fantasy that its great for the kid and aggressor is some hot piece of older tail? More likely they are some physically broken down and menatally unstable and an adult male wont touch them with someone else's dick.

"I was abused by a woman and it haunts me every day"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1228366/I-abused-woman-haunts-day.html

Spurred on by this wink and nod attitude that any boy would love to get raped by an older woman and the media's attitude toward "cougars", the number of attacks on boys has doubled in the past year (in England).

Would you like either of those two touching you?

[HS: The kid in the link was six years old, not 17. That's a huge difference.]

"It reminds me of a South Park episode where a kid was having sex with his hot teacher and it got reported to the police. The detective said:

"Let's go find that kid so we can give him his Luckiest Boy in the World award.""

But remember how that episode ended? She tried to pull off a murder-suicide with the kid. She was CRAZY. Just like all of the female teachers in the news these past few years who had sex with their students.

Why should the law treat juveniles different than adults? Why should juveniles get a free pass to visit their irresponsible acts on the rest of us?

I had an affair with a 29 year old woman over the summer and fall of 88. I turned 17 that October.

She was a coworker and married to a cop.

It was probably a negative experience on the whole for me, but also pretty atypical for these things. I was a complete chickenshit at that age and the furthest I'd gotten was discovering that girls' crotches got warm enough when massaged you could feel it through jeans.

She chased me for a couple months and plied me with beer and daily lunches. I was on the grounds crew for a rinky dink college raking out animal pens and mowing grass. She was an adult student with a financial aid job.

I was a wimp. She was a pot head and little nuts. What should've been no-stings good times turned into an emotional pile of crap. Highlights included her separation, me climbing out my bedroom window nightly, a kindergarten daughter walking in on us in the morning, her ghost writing a 5 page paper on Natty Bumpo for my English class, me paying to abort what in retrospect probably was the cop's kid, and a good 6 month funk after she dumped me.

Really wish Roissy had been around back then. Should've had a blast. Instead it was pretty pathetic.

Does Half-Sigma have children of his own? Who commenting on this blog has children of their own? I'm curious.

If it was the 13-year-old boy's parents who were paying for part of the support, rather than the 13-year-old himself, for the entire 21 years of support for the child, the court result wouldn't be terribly outrageous, IMHO. Children are not a "lifestyle choice" or an "accident" they are a very large and long-term emotional and financial investment. If the father is not in a position to pony up for the child the grandparents need to step up to the plate.

I also, BTW, favor a rule that the child support payments would be reduced greatly if the father wants to marry the mother but the mother refuses. (Not terribly applicable here, I'm afraid, but applicable in most other cases).

I agree with sabril. There is not much value in your typical modern 1-day-a-week "religion", but there is tremendous value in a *traditional* religious community, as long as it has reasonable memetic isolation from the sterilizing influences of secular culture. Indeed, the best community in terms of demographics and IQ are the Hutterian Brethren, who make it a strong point to have no radio, no TV, and Internet and telephone restricted to adult male community employees for on-the-job purposes only. They have high IQs and extensive K-12 educations done in the community. For a religious community that can be exposed to but quasi-withstand secular culture, the Mormons win there. However, the demographics of fertility and IQ of the Brethren are far superior to that of the Mormoms because of memetic isolation from alpha male sexual mores.

Twain,
You're using religion as an excuse for failure. I guarantee you my family is more religious than yours, and I do ok for myself at college. Read Portnoy's complaint for inspiration. My family is Orthodox Jewish, borderline Hasidic. I didn't kiss a girl 'til I was 19, or fuck until I was days short of being 20, now I'm 21 and at 16 girls slept with, which includes a few 1-6 month relationships. I've met other guys who had similar backgrounds, eg go to yeshiva in israel for a year after high school, and then go to college and bang girls like everyone else. There's something else at work besides religion.

I bet there are several things you're doing wrong right now, that someone could pick out within moments of meeting you.

If you feel constricted by religion just violate it at will. You'll realize nothing will happen to you for violating its strictures. First time I ate pork it felt scandalous, but I convinced myself I shouldn't feel bad because I don't believe in the religion. The guilt of eating pig dissipated entirely over a brief period.

"Religion can destroy your life beyond comprehension."

Like alcohol destroys brain cells, but only the weak ones.

It is without question that America's prudish sexual criminal laws need urgent reform. Consentual sex between young adults and teenagers, specialy between young men and teen girls is completely normal. For a young men in his twenties it is much more natural to date and form a significant emotional bond leading to marriage and the creation of a well founded family with a teenage girl than with a jaded woman his own age. Age of consent for heterosexual oral, vaginal and anal intercourse should be 14, like in most countries of EUROPE. For sexual activities where abuse is higly possible like prostitution, pornography and homosexual activity it should be 18. Prostitution of adults (soliciting) should be inmediately decriminalized. Age of consent for consentual homosexual activity should be 18 because juvenile men benefit from having sex with women but should be protected from sodomists until they are 18, because abuse and damage is likely. Producing a porn video of a teen girl and selling it should be a crime (child pornography, although I would rather call it juvenile pornography). Having a naked picture of your 16 year old girlfriend in your wallet should NOT constitute possesion of child pornography. Persons under 14 are children and therefore are granted complete sexual indemnity, unless the age difference with the other part is not over 4 years, (For example, a 15 year old with a 12 year old girlfriend is not a criminal). Also, persons under 14 should not be held criminaly responsible (The US routinely puts 11, 12 and 13 year olds on trial which is barbaric). Women should be able to marry at 14 with parental consent.

In simpler words:
Under 14: sexual indemnity
14-17: restricted sexual freedom
18 plus: total sexual freedom

"Would you like either of those two touching you?

[HS: The kid in the link was six years old, not 17. That's a huge difference.]"

But did you want either of those two touching you regardless of age?

Shelia Tone is correct- we are glamorize these assaults, but in reality half of these woman are unattractive to anyone and 100% of them are nuts. Its not bad enough that the woman is usually in a position of authority over the kid, but now the media is saying that they are "lucky" and will be scoffed at if they report it.

More perps at
http://badbadteacher.com/laura-kirkland/

Make it 16. Above that you can consent. Below that you can't.

I wish I had some 30 year old when I was 16 or 17. My life would have probably ended up much better. But I had nowhere to meet any.

"There is no evidence 14 year old boys are in any way psychologically or physically harmed by having sex with a woman over 18."

Of course there is. A 14-yo boy is completely immature and there is an excellent chance he'll be screwed up mentally by the experience, especially if the woman in question is in a position of trust / authority over him, e.g. a teacher.

Frankly, if I found out some adult woman was messing with my son, I would be totally outraged at her, not saying "attaboy!" to him.

Next the question is, what are your feelings about sex between a 14-yo girl and an adult?

At 18, had with a 23.

"A 14-yo boy is completely immature and there is an excellent chance he'll be screwed up mentally by the experience"

Funny how just a few generations ago 14 year olds were getting married, but now they'll be screwed up for life if they have sex with an older women. What a bunch of fragile flowers we've become.

"Of course there is. A 14-yo boy is completely immature and there is an excellent chance he'll be screwed up mentally by the experience, especially if the woman in question is in a position of trust / authority over him, e.g. a teacher."

Bullshit. Not if the teacher is decent - or better - looking.

There's no way any straight 14 year old boy who gets to pound doggy-style the hot brunette Art teacher with big tits is thinking to himself "my God! I'm being violated!" instead of "Yyyeahhhh, baby!"

"My response to Eugene Volokh is that sex between a 17-year-old boy and an adult is a great benefit to the 17-year-old boy, because it boosts his self esteem..." and gives him genital warts and herpes, which he can then pass on to his 13 year old girl friend while using all the wonderful sexual techniques he learned from his adult partner.

---There's no way any straight 14 year old boy who gets to pound doggy-style the hot brunette Art teacher with big tits is thinking to himself "my God! I'm being violated!" instead of "Yyyeahhhh, baby!"
---

TUJ, is everything 14 year old boys think is awesome a good idea?

R.P.: There has never been a time in centuries, let alone the last few generations, in which fourteen year olds were regularly married - women occasionally, men almost never. Any statement otherwise is a myth.

"TUJ, is everything 14 year old boys think is awesome a good idea?"

There are far more destructive decisions a 14 year old boy can make than allowing his knob to be polished by an older babe.

"There's no way any straight 14 year old boy who gets to pound doggy-style the hot brunette Art teacher with big tits is thinking to himself "my God! I'm being violated!" instead of "Yyyeahhhh, baby!""

He'd also be screaming "Yeaaaaaah, baby!" if I gave him the car keys and a 12-pack of MGD.

Any 20-something girl who gets involved with a teenage boy is pure poison, and you should want to keep her away from your son just as much as you should want to keep a 20-something man away from your teenage daughter. ("Oh, but there are so many more destructive decisions a 14-yo girl can make than allowing her furrow to be ploughed by an older male!" - which again doesn't make it a good idea.)

"Twain,
You're using religion as an excuse for failure. I guarantee you my family is more religious than yours, and I do ok for myself at college. Read Portnoy's complaint for inspiration. My family is Orthodox Jewish, borderline Hasidic. I didn't kiss a girl 'til I was 19, or fuck until I was days short of being 20, now I'm 21 and at 16 girls slept with, which includes a few 1-6 month relationships. I've met other guys who had similar backgrounds, eg go to yeshiva in israel for a year after high school, and then go to college and bang girls like everyone else. There's something else at work besides religion.

I bet there are several things you're doing wrong right now, that someone could pick out within moments of meeting you.

If you feel constricted by religion just violate it at will. You'll realize nothing will happen to you for violating its strictures. First time I ate pork it felt scandalous, but I convinced myself I shouldn't feel bad because I don't believe in the religion. The guilt of eating pig dissipated entirely over a brief period."

But what if you do or did believe because you were inculcated from the time you were 5 and threatened with "Hell" by your mother. Belief isn't rational. It's very difficult to unbelieve something.

There is something more to it than religion. I have pathological shyness and also things were not like the situation you have now in school when I was in school. But there is some psychological issues that are there, but religion is a factor.

Why is there this assumption that the pervert teacher will be hot?

James - maybe in the cities that was true. My great-grandparents got married at 15 just before WWI, and that was pretty common in the rural farming area where they lived. If 15 year olds could get married, work, and start a family just 100 years ago then I think a 14 year old now can get laid without being scarred for life.

Keep in mind that 100 years ago 12 year olds were working in factories, and 150 years ago 12 year olds were apprenticed out to learn trades.

We haven't always treated 14 year olds like fragile children, and any statement otherwise is a myth.

("Oh, but there are so many more destructive decisions a 14-yo girl can make than allowing her furrow to be ploughed by an older male!" - which again doesn't make it a good idea.)"

I said I don't support older men having sex with teenage girls because girls are mentally hardwired differently than young boys.

I've certainly never read about teenage boys who had sex with a female teacher who complained about it unless the teacher was into dangerous stuff like weird S&M games or something.

If they aren't complaining much if at all then I think it safe to say they aren't being harmed in the way a teenage girl would be.

"Why is there this assumption that the pervert teacher will be hot?

Posted by: James K. | November 18, 2009 at 10:53 PM"

Because people like to talk more about hot women than ugly women.

"Why is there this assumption that the pervert teacher will be hot?"

Dude, just look at the news reports which come out when a female teacher is busted for banging a male student. For whatever reason, those teachers are disproportionately hot.

"We haven't always treated 14 year olds like fragile children, and any statement otherwise is a myth."

Since we're not going to treat them as adults across the board, treating them as adults in the sexual realm is ridiculous and counterproductive.

"I said I don't support older men having sex with teenage girls because girls are mentally hardwired differently than young boys."

I disagree, and in any event the different wiring does not mean that it is automatically not-harmful for a 14-yo boy to get involved with some crazy 20-something slut.

"Dude, just look at the news reports which come out when a female teacher is busted for banging a male student. For whatever reason, those teachers are disproportionately hot."

And those hotties are ALSO disproportionately -- in fact virtually invariably -- psychotic stalkers who want to "bear his baby." So the teenage boy, who just wanted a quickie, ends up with a kid to support and a nutjob hassling him for the rest of his life. BAD deal, far outweighing the opportunity for practice.

Normal, mentally stable, 20-something hotties are interested in chasing alpha males, not teenage, low-resource-possessing, fumbling boys.

No. If you want the boy to get a chance to gain some confidence, encourage him to buy -- or buy for him -- an industrial-strength pack of condoms and give him a ride to Fifi's Cat House.

"in fact virtually invariably -- psychotic stalkers who want to 'bear his baby.' "

In most of the cases I have seen, the female teacher did not end up getting pregnant.

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