Trains higher class than buses

I always knew that trains are higher class than buses, and the Freakonomics blog has confirmed it.

As of 2001, the wealthy were much more likely to ride commuter rail or heavy rail (e.g. most subways) than bus or light rail; those earning over $100,000 took twice as many trips on the former modes as on the latter. For the poor, it is just the opposite. Members of households with incomes under $20,000 were almost six times more likely to take bus or light rail trips than heavy or commuter rail ones.

Comments

[John]

I tell you what, the bus takes too damn long too damn inconsistent. Rail is the perfect tradeoff.

[Peter A]

In other news, a bottle of 2004 Joseph Phelps is higher class than a six pack of Coors Light and sailing is higher class than bowling. Did this really need confirmation?

[EnviousRedneck]

Totally true. Take a ride on Greyhound sometime. See what the far left of the bell curve looks like. As Sailer (or somebody said) the worst thing about being poor is that you have to be around other poor people.

Commuter trains, OTOH, are sophisticted and urban. Very chic. Take the one from New Haven to Grand Central station some time. Complete opposite of the Greyhound crowd.

[bigboy]

Train riders: commuting professionals, suburb dwellers, tourists

Bus riders: old people, the homeless, poor minorities, and the mentally retarded

it took a study to confirm this?

[Stopped Clock]

More interesting than seeing that a stereotype is true would be finding out why. Is there any particular reason why this should be so? Off the top of my head, I'm thinking that trains are confined to particular routes that can't change, so they will be going through "old" neighborhoods, where a bus route can go wherever the people are. Also, trains are more suitable for going long distances, so long trips can be made cheaper.

[John Smith]

All one has to do is say, load up Google Earth, and see that wealthy suburbs have commuter rail while the poorer cities have bus coverage. Why would somebody in Great Neck take a bus to work? Why would somebody in Bed-Stuy take the LIRR to work? I'm sure the areas where rich people take commuter rail also have poor people preferring commuter rail... the difference is simply that poor people don't really live in rich areas. In areas with strong bus coverage, wealthy people can simply drive a car instead of the bus.

[Wade Nichols]

Going further, if you take Amtrak, always pay extra for the "business class" seats. It's not much better in terms of comfort compared to coach, but it shields you from most of the proles. Also, the Acela train is better than the mere Amtrak trains, because Acela costs more.

If you absolutely must take a bus, take one of those "executive coaches" over Greyhound. If you're a poor college student, take Greyhound over the "Chinatown" buses. Don't EVER take the "Chinatown" buses!

But, why bother with the train or the bus. Just rent a car if you don't own one!

[HS: The most prolish scene I ever witnessed on an Amtrak train happened on an Acele Express from New York to DC. Two guys almost got into a fight over the "quiet car" policy.]

[JohnM]

Over here in L.A. if I see a white girl waiting at a bus stop, and I want to start up a conversation a la rossey I'll ask her what country is she from. She'll typically be amazed that I know that she's from europe/aussie.

In reality, the only young, attractive white people at bus stops in los angeles are European tourists.

[Peter A]

"Don't EVER take the "Chinatown" buses!"

I thought the Chinatown buses were the cool choice for aspiring SWPLs. You get the cred of hanging with Chinese immigrants (much cooler than NAMs), and sometimes they show Kung Fu movies.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

John "These Illegal Aliens are God's Children" McCain has (somewhat) condemned Political Correctness:

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/294647.php

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) Wednesday called the Fort Hood killings an “act of terror” and joined a parade of GOP critics in suggesting that “political correctness” might have been a factor in not preventing the shootings.
“We ought to make sure ‘political correctness’ never impedes national security,” McCain said in a speech at the University of Louisville.

McCain’s comments echoed those of a variety of Republican politicians and commentators — as well as Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn) — over the past few days as information about the background of the alleged shooter has surfaced in the media. The criticisms, which initially focused on the failure of the administration and the Army to use the word “terrorism” or “jihadism” in connection with Fort Hood, are now being merged with a larger Republican portrayal of the Obama administration’s approach toward terrorism generally.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"You get the cred of hanging with Chinese immigrants (much cooler than NAMs),"

I don't know anyone who thinks "hangin" with NEAsian Americans is "cool". Chinese immigrants are just much less likely to gang rape your wife.

[David Alexander]

Re: Buses

Since buses form the basic backbone of a transit network, it's more likely that those with low incomes who can't afford a car that end up utilizing buses the most. Everybody else with a car can bypass the bus and go directly to the train station, and those with higher incomes can afford the higher housing costs near the station.

In the case of light rail networks, one must remember that a number of systems are basically replacements for heavily used bus routes, so you'll have poorer riders shifted from one mode to another. Plus, most light rail systems are newer systems in "newer" cities that have lower mass transit usage in general, so the rich are way less likely to ride than in cities with a history of transit ridership and high density. Regardless, a system like Boston's Green Line which serves middle class areas and MUNI in San Francisco which skews toward middle class ridership as well is averaged out by LA's Blue Line which runs in the heart of NAM country or Philadelphia's streetcar network which outside of UPenn is basically mostly poorer, black urbanites.

*Commuter trains, OTOH, are sophisticted and urban. *

Commuter trains tend to skew richer due to the fact that they serve suburban locales with high income earners that commute to the urban core and can afford the high fares, but in the case of the NYC Metro area, it's not impossible to find non-whites using the commuter network to get to workplaces and residences in both urban and suburban areas.

*Take a ride on Greyhound sometime. *

I've used Greyhound to go to Montreal, and it may be one of the few examples exceptions to the rule. Mind you, that's due to fact that flights to Montreal are generally expensive given the distance traveled, and it's still a 8 to 9 hour drive from New York, and Amtrak still only has one train per day north of Albany.

For what it's worth, I prefer Amtrak since it's generally more comfortable. The Amfleets enjoy a more generous seating pitch, larger (and more) bathrooms, and better rider quality than the bus. While Amtrak's cafe car is limited and pricey, it's better than having to wait until one stops to eat, and beer is available on the train...

*where a bus route can go wherever the people are*

The considerable number of bus routes in older urban areas still follow the streetcars that they replaced, and most routes have few alterations. Even in suburban bus networks, the routes don't deviate to serve certain locations, and when they do, it's generally a deviation that makes the bus less competitive.

[Ricky Fitts]

This is why one should just stick to driving a car. No study was necessary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpyFybGE-y0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NZtGz_7WI0

And this is why you should drive your kid(s) to school. Or better yet, send them to a private school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foubvPsdBGU

[BahamaMama]

FWIW, the bus system in Denver is fair overall. You'll see relatively quiet people on the ride from Denver to Broomfield or Boulder. And more lower class but still decently behaved people on the worst line - the Colfax route (Route 15 I believe).

A couple of times I've seen NAM's striking up conversations with female SWPL's where the guy ended up talking like a lunatic and the chick was too diversity trained to just tell the guy to shut the hell up. Kind of funny.

[rightwingnut]

Speaking of higher class, I caught this Frontline episode on the recession in New York's Upper East Side. It sure pales in comparison to those CNN clips on Detroit.

You will likely get a kick out of it and make a post on it.
* One couple $200,000 in debt for running a coffee shop.
* Another woman with a degree from Colombia, tells how her 60+ mother still 'helps'
* Another guy $80K in debt, tells how he is going back to school to study theology, of all practical things.
* And one old hag speaks a gem: "It shouldn't be happening here, its the upper east side!"
* And of course, everyone is speaking about the economic woes while they're getting a $200 hair cut.

To think some people believe SWPL is a 'parody', this video puts the issue to rest.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/closetohome/view/?utm_campaign=viewpage&utm_medium=grid&utm_source=grid

[john]

Not in Atlanta

[Wade Nichols]

"I thought the Chinatown buses were the cool choice for aspiring SWPLs."

I'm not an aspiring SWPL, so I can't speak for them. I merely wish to accumulate a decent amount of wealth in my life, and move to a country with a large European population. Argentina is looking pretty good these days.

"You get the cred of hanging with Chinese immigrants (much cooler than NAMs), and sometimes they show Kung Fu movies."

The last time I rode a Chinatown bus, was maybe 8 years ago, and it was the last time. The bus broke down just upon leaving Albany, NY. I walked back to the bus terminal and took a Greyhound. The Greyhound passed by the Chinatown bus, and all the idiots were sitting there on the side of the highway, waiting for the replacement bus to come (in 3-4 hours)!

It's not just Chinese that ride the Chinatown buses. Other races have discovered them as well, and there have been a few articles on the horror stories in the NY Times and WSJ, such as buses catching fire, toilets overflowing, etc.

[Kevin K]

It obviously is commute dependent. The DC Metro Red Line which goes through Rockville, NIH, Bethesda, Adams Morgan to get to downtown is much more upper-middle-class than the other side of the Red Line of Silver Spring, Takoma Park, etc which is ghetto central. You can always count on a bunch of hot teens/early 20s girls to get on the train around Bethesda.

When I take the Ride On bus to the train station (when I have to travel over night and have nowhere to leave my car) its always filled with prole/immigrant workers/dysfunctional ghetto-ites.

[HS: DC is a magnet for girls in their 20s looking to do something meaningful with their liberal arts degrees.]

[cjwynes]

That trains are superiour to busses was patently obvious when I was in London. For one thing, the underground costs more than the bus. For another the underground was packed with professionals. The banker I was staying with confirmed that the crowd on the trains had more class than the folks on the busses -- he didn't say that outright, but made a comment about "safety" that was basically saying that.

[Melykin]

In Vancouver there is no difference between the people on the Sky Train and the people on the buses. At least there wasn't about 12 years ago when I rode both regularly. Unless people happen to live right on the Sky Train route, they probably take a bus to get to the Sky Train.

The Greyhounds aren't that bad. I used to take the Greyhound every week when I was a grad student, and became very familiar with it. The people on the Greyhound looked mostly normal. The route I took went through the mountains, and a lot of people took the bus in the winter so they didn't have to worry about driving. Except maybe once a month on "welfare Wednesday", when the welfare cheques were given out. Then you would get a lot of strange looking people who carried their belongings in garbage bags instead of suitcases.

Mind you, this was also 12 years ago. It was pretty freaky when that crazy Chinese guy from Edmonton beheaded someone on a Greyhound bus. I sure hope they never let that guy out. He was found criminally insane.

They don't have Chinatown buses in Canada that I am aware of. I had never heard of them until I read about them hear, and googled them.

[Different idea]

"I'm not an aspiring SWPL, so I can't speak for them. I merely wish to accumulate a decent amount of wealth in my life, and move to a country with a large European population. Argentina is looking pretty good these days."

Just go back to Europe. All immigrants should leave. Only natives are staying.

[ogunsiron]

I'm guessing that the canadian equivalent of those Chinatown buses are the haitian buses of montreal. The crowd riding them isn`t exclusively haitian though. Students, young euro tourists and your odd professional looking person take them too.

[traveling boho]

john,

Ah yes,

Moving
Africans
Rapidly
Through
Atlanta

[chris]

Wade Nichols:
"I merely wish to accumulate a decent amount of wealth in my life, and move to a country with a large European population. Argentina is looking pretty good these days."

Haha, Argentina? The country that has yet to recover from it's 2001 economic collapse, and that has large swaths of urban areas that are basically no-go for anybody with money. Just because the residents of those areas are white, that doesn't mean that they won't hesitate to hold you up for everything you have and kill you when they are done.

[HS: There is no better place to retire than the Hamptons. Unfortunately, you need millions of dollars to pull it off.

You can settle for some place in the midwest with a low cost of living. Oklahoma or South Dakota is really worth the price premium over a third world country.]

[Peter A]

The Hamptons? You have a bad case of Manhattanitis, HS. The Hamptons suck.

New Hampshire is still the place to be, although you want to stay north of Manchester these days. Maine isn't bad either.

[Divinryan]

Steve Sailer said this a long time ago, basically that SWPL cities build expensive and slow trolleys instead of investing in more buses and dedicated lanes for them, because SWPLs will ride trolleys/trains but not buses. He cited a study that demonstrated trolleys are only faster if they don't have to stop at traffic lights.

[David Alexander]

*trolleys *

I hate that word, and I'm a railfan. There's a difference in terms of a streetcar and a "light rail"*. The streetcar is what you'd use to replace heavily used bus routes similar to a "limited" bus, and the light rail is basically a poor man's subway that avoids the tunnelling, but has higher capacity than a streetcar system. The real advantage of an electrified rail-based system is that electric engines are easier to maintain, they no longer inflict damage on the pavement, they have greater carrying and bording capacity, and the vehicles last longer (15 years for a bus versus 30 to 50 years for a rail vehicle). Even the tracks once they're built are good for twenty to fifty years with proper construction and maintenance. Plus, the streetcars don't ride like crap compared to buses.

*Among railfans, I prefer to use the word German word "Stadtbahn" since American light rail systems trace their design ancestry back to the German "Stadtbahn" networks which were improved and modernized streetcar lines.

[Kirk]

One thing that people are missing, is that the wealthy exert great influence on where rails are put in. Whether it be the rail system constructed for the Winter Olympics in Nagano, Japan (which stops directly in front of a hotel owned by a booster for those Olympics) or the Tampa-Orlando rail plan, where Disney is moving heavan-and-Earth to ensure the train does *not* stop in downtown Orlando, trains go wherever the wealthy and powerful want them to.

Like state university systems, 401(k)'s, and the mortage-interest tax-deduction, railways serve the upper and upper-middle class, at the expense of the lower classes. This is why rail generally isn't tolerated outside of the SWPL belt.