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March 29, 2011

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It also includes some poor, low living standard, low education states like W. Virgina and Rhode Island. Its hard to make causal connections due to the correlation of complex phenomenon.

The thing that most of these states have in common is relatively low urban population.

Cheers

Wait, I thought Maine and Vermont were the whitest.

jeanne, Maine and Vermont are the whitest states, but Hawaii and Montana are the least-black states.

"it follows that the best indicator of the quality of life of a particular geographic area is not the whiteness of the population, but rather the non-blackness of it."

I think you need to define quality of life first.

I though you had some assumption in there about getting other people to do all your yard and house work for you.

I don't think you can squeeze North and South Dakota into the Bible Belt.

What are the "least black" cities? And the whitest cities?

ice hole, I consider the Dakotas to be part of a midwest north-south bible belt that also includes Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas.

Not your best work, Sigma.

In the past year, I have visited two societies that can make one wonder about the HBD theory. The first is Costa Rica. Most "Ticos", as the locals are called, are white (about 60%). Yet, they lack the work ethic, diligence, and future time orrientation that HBD theory normally associates with white people. The second society is Hawaii. Most Hawaiians are a mixure of the various Asian ethnicities, with Chinese, Japanese, and Filipino being predominant. Native Hawaiian people (Polynesian) make up less than 10% of Hawaii's population. Yet, 40% of the state employees are known to be illiterate (cannot read or write in ANY language) and Hawaii, in many respects, is an economy and society that is similar to South East Asia (minus the overseas Chinese). Like Costa Rica, productivity is lacking in Hawaii as well.

HBD cites general trends in specific populations. However, cultural and climatic effects are significant as well.

"I consider the Dakotas to be part of a midwest north-south bible belt that also includes Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas"

I'd omit Texas, what with its very large Hispanic population and sheer size, it doesn't have all that much in common with the other states on the list.

Maryland would still have a substantial black population even without Baltimore. Prince Georges County has almost 900K people and is two-thirds black, and the other DC-suburban counties all have significant numbers of black residents.

Idaho is about as Mormon as it is redneck.

This obsession with black people is ridiculous.

Blacks are culturally distinct in the US. To blame their behavior on their genes is to be a moron. Much of their culture is still African. It is only dysfunctional within a modern context which judges all cultures by their similarity to Anglo-American culture. The same is true of the black-fellas of Australia.

American blacks speak differently from other Americans. Why? Is it their genes? Talking black is genetic?

I used to think the way you do HS until I left PDX and for the first time encountered WHITES who were culturally indistinguishable from blacks. They talked black. They acted black. They had the same problems blacks have.

If the frequency of the name Cohen is a proxy, then ND has the lowest concentration of Jews in the US. It also has the lowest concentration of lawyers. Maybe you could get a job as a lawyer THERE HS.

Ticos are white? Really? I don't believe it.

"I'd omit Texas, what with its very large Hispanic population and sheer size, it doesn't have all that much in common with the other states on the list."

Even though Texas is a big state with a lot things going on, the Bible set there is still a big political and cultural player. North Texas has a lot in common with Oklahoma and the mid-west states, geographically and culturally. Waco is still there and is still Waco.

In fact, the evangelic community has been successful working on the Hispanics in the state as a sort of integration tool. "Prosperity churches" like Lakewood church and charismatic catholic churches are a pretty big deal in Texas.

"It is only dysfunctional within a modern context which judges all cultures by their similarity to Anglo-American culture."

So committing violence against others is only dysfunctional because it is looked down upon in Anglo-American culture? I guess that makes Anglo-American culture superior then. Sorry if that runs counter to modern liberal relativism.

Half Sigma...you know, really, it might help to research things before you write, a bit. This took me less than 10 minutes. LOL Where is your correlation? Pockets of high black crime in DC, does not necessarily make what you say true nationally. But then again, you never leave New YOrk do you?

Hawaii has a very high crime rate.

http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html

It's ranked 36, the rate is 281. 3.2% black

It is mostly Asian

Virginia is about

ranked 34, rate 282 20% black

Washington State

ranked 28 rate 346 3.9% black

Tennessee

ranked 2 rate 760 16.8% black

Utah

ranked 35 rate 224 1.4% black

Minnesota

ranked 30 rate 312 4.7%

Missippi

ranked 31 rate 299 37.2% black

For state demographic data:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/28000.html

The correlation does not hold whatsoever...it is obvious there is more to crime rates than "% of blacks" if so Virginia should be a very dangerous place, but it is as safe as Hawaii, which hardly has any blacks, and FAR safer than Tennesse, which has slightly less blacks.

Mississippi is about as dangerous as Minnesota, but the former has over 10X the rate of blacks as the latter.

You want to revise your bulls...I mean "thesis".

Half Sigma, you should finalize your choice on where to move between Maine and Hawaii. That would be funny indeed.

Jan Smuts, you have made one assertion which is entirely plausible, but coupled it with an irrational conclusion. I have often argued myself, e.g. at Sailer's site, that black dysfunction is at least as likely to be culturally determined as it is to be a simple outgrowth of low g. However, even if this were conclusively proved, what you call the "obsession" with black people would still be far from ridiculous. Why should normal, law-abiding, property tax-paying people be anything but incensed about a thoroughgoing system of black exemptions from basic civility? I have news for you: up until about 1985, everything in California worked. If you went to the DMV or the county clerk's office or called P.G.&E or the water department on the phone, you routinely got a courteous, competent person reponsive to your problem. All of that ended with the preferential hiring of licensed surly-bots. And of course this is to say nothing of the danger in the schools. Here's a question for you: have you ever had someone tell you that it's lucky you didn't go to school with them, because "you wouldn't have lasted a week"? Well I have; it was a black guy apparently proud of how dangerous he and his homies were to whites (at San Francisco's Lincoln H.S.) You're on the right track in acknowledging that blacks refuse to speak standard English. What you can't admit to yourself is that it's part of a deliberate choice to remain unsocialized savages, deriving greatest pleasure from being a terror to others.

I prefer neighborhoods which are clean and safe. I guess that makes me some kind of cultural bigot.

"Blacks are culturally distinct in the US. To blame their behavior on their genes is to be a moron. Much of their culture is still African... The same is true of the black-fellas of Australia.
American blacks speak differently from other Americans. Why? Is it their genes? Talking black is genetic?" (Jan Smuts)

Jan, you say that much of their culture is still African, but how can this be? When they came to America they were illiterate, were Christianised and forced to speak English. Their cultural roots to Africa were destroyed. So how can it be that they are 'culturally' African?

The answer to this question is the same as the answer to your next question about why blacks speak differently: race and genetics.

It is not so much that blacks retained their culture, more that left to their own devices they regress to their natural level, which is the natural level that produced African culture in the first place. Likewise, nowhere did Africans create complex European style languages because they could not, so left to their own devices in America their language naturally regresses back to the type of language and grammar they would have used in Africa. Culture and language don't come from nowhere Jan, they are a product of the people that created them, and foremost amongst a people's characteristics are their race/ethnicity.

I find it amazing that you say you used to believe the kind of thing that I am saying, and have seemingly undergone some kind of regression yourself to the ludicrous 'we're all the same and cultures were just parcelled out at random' school of thought. Did you suffer some kind of head trauma at about the time you started to change your mind?

Oh, and Australian aborigines are not black in the sense that most people use the term black. They are not of African descent.

Cities are demographically different not just in Europe, but also Canada. The Montreal metro area has more than 3 million people and is less than 5% black. I think Toronto and Vancouver have a similar percentage.

American SWPLs love to threaten to move to Canada for one reason or another but perhaps this is the real motivator.

Posted by: Jan Smuts | March 29, 2011 at 03:13 PM

So why is the black crime rate the highest?

I don't see anything particularly enviable about any of those states. In fact, I would expect most of them to be in the bottom half of any interstate comparisons for quality of life.

"I used to think the way you do HS until I left PDX and for the first time encountered WHITES who were culturally indistinguishable from blacks. They talked black. They acted black. They had the same problems blacks have."

This is interesting. I live in PDX, and my impression has always been that the lower class whites in this area were somewhat better behaved than the lower class blacks. While their behavior is still trashy, they don't seem as inclined toward thugishness (e.g., intimidating random people for fun, etc). However, my friends from the Midwest and South tell me that I haven't seen genuine white trash, that Oregon white trash is pretty tame compared to that of the Midwest and South, and that the white trash of the Midwest and South are just as fucked up and degenerate as ghetto blacks. Also, the chavs of the U.K. and skinheads Eastern Europe/Russia seem every bit as bad.

quote:
"Probably, one of the reasons why cities have such a bad reputation in the United States is because of the high concentration of blacks living in the cities."

There is a belief within American culture (an incorrect but a very strong belief) that:
a Big city must have Big taxes to go with it.

This silly meme can be disproved very easily by pointing out Singapore, Hong Kong, and Taipei. All are big cities with very low taxes.

Big cities in America generally have high taxes because they attract a lot of Blacks who can't financially pull their own weight so everybody else has to pay more to compensate.

"Likewise, nowhere did Africans create complex European style languages because they could not, so left to their own devices in America their language naturally regresses back to the type of language and grammar they would have used in Africa."

What the hell is this supposed to mean? I take it you have studied Fulani, Igbo or Yoruba? Do you know ANYTHING about these languages or are you one of these people that think Africans communicate via grunts and groans?

Hawaiians are not asian. Hawaii has a high crime rate due to native Hawaiians.

They get classified as asian because the politically correct, either sincerely believing there is no such thing as race, or just being stupendously ignorant, arbitrarily lump unlike races together.

"American blacks speak differently from other Americans. Why? Is it their genes? Talking black is genetic?"

Yes, talking black is in their genes. Just as white societies have a problem with an illiterate minority, black African societies have a problem with a minority that cannot speak intelligibly, and can only understand the simplest sentences, mainly single word commands.

The IQ difference between whites and chimpanzees is about four or five standard deviations. The IQ difference between whites and the dimmest black African races is about two standard deviations.

"It is not so much that blacks retained their culture, more that left to their own devices they regress to their natural level, which is the natural level that produced African culture in the first place. Likewise, nowhere did Africans create complex European style languages because they could not, so left to their own devices in America their language naturally regresses back to the type of language and grammar they would have used in Africa. "


proleishplumber :
Spoken like a man who knows nothing about any non-European language (in other words ignorant)

Chinese had very "high culture" right?

I speak intermediate Mandarin and German.

In Mandarin to say:

"Yesterday, I went to the store"

You say:

"Huotian, Wo qu shangdian le"

(Yesterday, I go store le")

"le" means everything before it is past tense.

Chinese has no gender, no future tense, no real past tense (on the verb anyway), nouns rarely have any type of plural.

It is how children speak English. However, with this "childish language" they are able to create ICBMs and send men to outer-space.

In German, you would say:

Ich ging gestern in den Laden.

(I went yesterday to the store).

In German you have tense on the verb as in English, but you also have grammatical gender on the noun (3 genders) and the article has to match the noun.

So based on your reasoning, Chinese is a stupid primitive "low language" of genetically inferior people.

English although IndoEuropean, because it has less grammar (we have almost done away with grammatical gender in English but for pronouns) it is also inferior to German.

How about you stick to pumping crap out of my toilets and stop commenting on things you have no clue about. Thanks.

sigh

Also proleishplumber...please don't try to say that Chinese is more complex because it is tonal. A good number if not a majority of West African languages are also tonal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_%28linguistics%29#Africa

The reason IndoEuropean languages are so "complex" grammatically (high inflected), is not because people who speak them are "naturally intellect". LOL Chinese (and many African languages) use word order and pairing to mark most grammatical forms. Gender is totally unnecessary in any language. So the language might not be as flexible in the number of sentence structures you can make, but the same is true of English and German. Since English has become less inflected as time has went on, we cannot make the same number of variations as a German can, because you will often confuse direct object with indirect object, in German that is nearly impossible.

Are the British and Americans stupid for having a less inflected language, are the Chinese?

I have a theory...maybe they aren't, but I know who is...

"American blacks speak differently from other Americans. Why? Is it their genes? Talking black is genetic?"

Being stupid is genetic, and being stupid hinders them from learning proper English.

While languages may differ greatly in their complexity, children learn to speak at just about the same age no matter what languages are involved. Given reasonable levels of development they also learn to read at just about the same ages too.

"Likewise, nowhere did Africans create complex European style languages because they could not, so left to their own devices in America their language naturally regresses back to the type of language and grammar they would have used in Africa."

Not in the slightest. In fact, Africans in Africa tend to be very linguistically gifted and can often speak multiple languages (including "civilized" languages like English, French and Arabic) very well. African-Americans also love word games (some rap is actually very complex rhythmically and syntactically, even if the thoughts thereby expressed aren't very deep). In fact I'd argue that African-Americans generally possess better oral language skills than whites (excluding Jews) or Asians. This makes sense if you believe that Africans generally possess a greater talent for mimicry than non-Africans. When African-Americans don't speak "proper" English it's more of a political/cultural choice than a reflection of IQ. (Even retarded people can usually master English grammar).

Dragon Horse-

Maybe when I've finished pumping out your toilet I can pump out your mouth, for the same reasons. Not that you would dare talk this way to people in real life, I imagine.

The point you make is easily explicable, although I do so with a heavy heart given your general unpleasantness. God only knows how you will be when you can actually speak the languages you are learning if this is what you are like when you are an 'intermediate'

Your argument boils down to this simplistic question, a question which you yourself answer--

"Chinese had very "high culture" right?"

My point is that language reflects the character (intelligence, inventiveness, etc) of the people that created it, or who have used it over a long period of time. I agree that the Chinese are capable of maintaining a high culture, but the difference in languages between East and West, I would say, is accounted for by the fact that Asians tend to have IQ's bunched around 100 mark, whereas amongst Europeans there is a broader range, with more over the 115 mark than would be found in the East, and it is from amongst this demographic that our language derives. Of course not everyone in the West is this clever, but it is easier to learn a language than to create one, so the language they created obviously filtered down through the rest of the society. It is perhaps a similair lack of flexibility or creative thinking that prevented them from making the leap from pictograms to the Western alphabet system. Given that the population in the East was far greater than in the West you would assume, all things being equal, that such an idea would statistically be far more likely to emerge in the East...although I am only speculating about this. Of course I'm sure you will find a charming way to tell me if you don't agree.


"Are the British and Americans stupid for having a less inflected language, are the Chinese?"

Africans are, however stupid for having languages in which it is difficult or impossible to express complex ideas, in which a lot of white ideas just cannot be translated. (There is of course, a lot of diversity in Africa. Superior African races, such as the Tutsi, have superior languages. Inferior races, such as the Twa, have inferior languages.)

@Nooncy @ Home

I'm NOT a relativist. You've misunderstood what I said, but that's my bad

My point was that when an illiterate, uncivilized, etc. people are yanked out of their native milieu and placed in a modern European one how can you really judge them as a people?

@helene edwards

"Why should normal, law-abiding, property tax-paying people be anything but incensed about a thoroughgoing system of black exemptions from basic civility...What you can't admit to yourself is that it's part of a deliberate choice to remain unsocialized savages"

Blacks ARE and HAVE BEEN excluded. Why? Is it their own fault? One problem is they have no culture in the sense that people from China, India, or Jews have a culture, and this is because Africa has no culture in this sense and because they didn't come to the New World voluntarily.

Stanley Crouch has said there is something in black people that if they are asked to do something they will refuse just because they're being asked, and that this is a legacy of slavery.

Part of black culture is an alienation from the prevailing culture. Why would that be?

You're right that AA blacks don't get that "the customer is always white". Strangely I've noticed orientals don't get it either. "Chop stick 99 cent!"

CamelCaseRob"Ticos are white? Really? I don't believe it."

The politically correct pride themselves on inability to see racial differences that are glaringly obvious to everyone else.

And Hawaii is one hell of a lot more than ten percent pacific islander.

Excuse me I should have written "the customer is always right".

@proleishplumber

"So how can it be that they are 'culturally' African?"

Is that a serious question?

"The answer to this question is the same as the answer to your next question about why blacks speak differently: race and genetics."

Apparently you've never heard a black person who didn't talk black or heard a white person who did. YOU ARE A MORON.

@Fo' Shizzle

"So why is the black crime rate the highest?"

Partly for the same reason Koreans live the thug life in Japan, and the Maoris in NZ.

Blacks are violent in the Caribbean and Africa too, but it varies a lot. Barbados is a 95% black country that WORKS. If you hate black people visit Barbados or get to know some Bajan Americans.

The commenters here in general fit the stereotype of the stupid racist.

Peter A:"In fact, Africans in Africa tend to be very linguistically gifted and can often speak multiple languages (including "civilized" languages like English, French and Arabic) very well.

Black Africans on average speak English markedly worse than black Americans, and Black Americans on average speak English markedly worse than white Americans.

"(some rap is actually very complex rhythmically and syntactically, even if the thoughts thereby expressed aren't very deep)"

Well, yes. Blacks do quite a bit of cool stuff with words, but the thoughts expressed are not very deep. And the sentence structure is simple, simplistic, and not capable of expressing deep thoughts.

When Obama had to explain stuff to a hostile press conference, he did what every other affirmative action appointee does when the going gets tough - called in the white male who used to do the job. The man falls apart when he has no teleprompter. Obama speaks English better than the average white male, which highly unusual ability gives fans of affirmative action an orgasmic thrill, but not nearly so well as the average member of the elite of which he is culturally a member - not nearly so well as a typical politician.

Peter A: 'When African-Americans don't speak "proper" English it's more of a political/cultural choice than a reflection of IQ.'

Yeah, right and the vast majority of Muslims are moderates.

It is probable that Obama speaks better English than any

@James A Donald

Do you have Downs' syndrome?

@Dragon Horse

Exactly. Chinese is basically baby talk, but compared to all other Euro languages English is the closest to baby talk.

Blacks' problems may be partly genetic, but if you have any charity or any experience or any humility you'll see that they have other problems AND trying to separate the two is like trying to unbake a cake.

Jan Smuts:"Barbados is a 95% black country that WORKS."

Barbados has a restricted franchise. Only qualified people are allowed to vote, and few but whites qualify. The voters are mostly white, the cops are mostly white, and the black majority have a good relationship with the mostly white cops.

Jan Smuts:"The commenters here in general fit the stereotype of the stupid racist."

I am devastated by the brilliance of your sophisticated argument.

I wrote that Barabdos has a restricted Franchise, but it appears I am long out of date. Please delete or correct my comment.

Black run societies tend to be violent, corrupt, and dysfunctional. Whether in Detroit, Port-au-Prince, or Harare. The reasonable inference is that much of the cause is genetic.

As far as African languages go, I'm pretty confident that if you studied them carefully, you would see that they are unmistakably the product of a less intelligent culture than that of Europe.

"charity or any experience or any humility"

This is the nub of the problem of political correctness. There's this idea out there that you are a bad person if you notice the ugly truth that blacks are inherently stupid. And that you are a good person if you don't notice it.

In my opinion, this idea is ompletely wrong. It is the people who pretend that blacks are the same as whites who are evil. They promote a dangerous and expensive lie just so they can feel smug and superior.

"Partly for the same reason Koreans live the thug life in Japan"

GMAB, would you rather send your mother on a walk alone at night in the worst Korean neighborhood in Japan or ANY neighborhood in Detroit?

"The commenters here in general fit the stereotype of the stupid racist."

I agree -- PC liberals are so self-deceived, they think that it's their opponents who are stupid. As someone pointed out, a "racist" is a conservative who is winning an argument with a liberal.

Wow, James, your ignorance of basic linguistics is just staggering. Once again James, a white person with a 75 IQ is perfectly capable of speaking standard American English. If 85 IQ blacks do not, it's probably not the IQ. There is no innate feature to ANY language that makes it better or worse than any other. Grammar and vocabulary are just tools, and are very adaptable. A 150 IQ person raised entirely in Hausa will still be able to express more complex thoughts than a 100 IQ person speaking British English (or Latin). You're confusing culture and language.

Stanley Crouch has said there is something in black people that if they are asked to do something they will refuse just because they're being asked, and that this is a legacy of slavery.

Yes, because we know that never-enslaved black males in Africa accomplish sooooo much based on their superior work ethic and organizational abilities. They're winning nobel prizes left and right, and not just for Peace.

"When Obama had to explain stuff to a hostile press conference, he did what every other affirmative action appointee does when the going gets tough - called in the white male who used to do the job. The man falls apart when he has no teleprompter."

Let's see, so did Obama call in a white man to take his place when he went on Fox News to be interviewed by Bill O'Reilly(not exactly a fan of the president). Or a number of other interviews I've seen him in?

Affirmative Action appointee?? Since when are presidents "appointed," you cretin.

"Blacks are violent in the Caribbean and Africa too, but it varies a lot. Barbados is a 95% black country that WORKS. If you hate black people visit Barbados or get to know some Bajan Americans."

LOL. And it just so happens that Queen Elizabeth II is the head of state for Barbados and all commonwealth nations, but I guess that's just a minor coincidence.

850 million blacks live on the planet and you can cite one tiny little resort island with a population of 350,000.

I've been there and I can tell you that the black Barbadian leaders and elite are EXTREMELY British in their personal, public and business behavior, and these standards flow from the top down through the rest of the Barbadian population - this is why it "WORKS." Their entire government and economic system was instituted by the British, and left largely intact after Barbados started their transition to local rule.

The same is true for Bermuda and the Bahamas, two other majority black commonwealth nations in the Carribean which have much higher living standards than any other black-run nation on the planet.

Or possibly the reason high black population tends to correlate with crime stems from the fact that blacks tend to live in cities and cities are more conducive to crime.

"Their entire government and economic system was instituted by the British, and left largely intact after Barbados started their transition to local rule.

The same is true for Bermuda and the Bahamas, two other majority black commonwealth nations in the Carribean which have much higher living standards than any other black-run nation on the planet."

The same is also true for almost all black Caribbean nations, but it doesn't seem to work for all of them. I think your explanation leaves much to be desired.

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