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August 19, 2011

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Obama was surprised to find that Brave New World wasn't in the "How to" section. He was also seen holding a copy of Socialism for dummies

This tax thing isn't that irrational.

If rich people have their taxes increased, that goes to the government, who will spend it on black people and educated white people- either through employment or grants.

If the rich keep their money, they might spend it on things where prole white people get some of the money. Maybe on remodeling their houses, or on boats or airplanes. It may be a pittance, but money to the government is going to get to their hands only after many more transactions.

Beyond this the more money the government has, the more power it has, which has been bad news for prole whites for 50 years.

A presidential visit anywhere is going to attract a crowd. Doesn't matter who the President is.

Rich people aren't concerned with income taxes. Why would Bill Gates care if income taxes were raised. I am pretty sure he is not living off his salary from Microsoft (if he even gets one anymore). The truly rich don't make their money from salaries. The rich identify with Obama for cultural reasons. If he had identical positions on social issues and was more fiscally conservative he would be even more popular with them.

Dude enough! We all know that taxes to the rich mean nothing if they can just avoid them. We had this discussion in the last post related to taxes.

I was on the vineyard last weekend. I was pretty shocked at how many black people were there. There are a few pretty prole people there as well, though little actually own property there or even rent it (moochers). I am extremely glad I missed the presidential hoopla.

Rich people like to *say* they want their taxes increased, but I see nary a one of them firing their tax attorneys or knocking on the door of the Treasury. Even Warren Buffett, self-pledged to give away 99% of his fortune, would prefer to give it to charities like the Gates Foundation (which ironically reduces his tax bill) instead of Uncle Sam. Maybe they should put their money where their mouths are and write a check to the deficit reduction fund. Then they can get together and congratulate each other on how much they helped.

I wonder what Obama thinks about when he reads Brave New World.

People making over $200,000 per year voted over 60% for Republican House candidates in 2010, and over 60% for Bush in 2004 (from CNN exit polls). It is true that the over $200,000 group voted narrowly for Obama over McCain, but that was due in part to McCain's inability to make a coherent economic argument. If Romney is the Republican nominee, I would expect him to win the over $200,000 demographic by at least 3-2 over Obama. The folks on Martha's Vineyard do not represent a random sample of wealthy people. The folks that work for my hedge fund are pretty solidly against Obama.

$200000 is a middle class salary. Billionaires prefer Obama. And donating your own money is such a ridiculous suggestion. That doesn't do anything to create a sustainable system.

It's still not obvious to me that he's any worse than McCain would have been. Americans really should worry that they've been presented with such dire choices as W vs Kerry, and O vs McCain. (The worst of whom, in my estimation, was Kerry.)

Michael Arrington had a good (if hyperbolic) take on Warren Buffett's latest b.s. on taxes: http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/15/screw-the-rich-heres-how/

The rich go crazy whenever capital gains increases are threatened. They just don't care about income taxes because it doesn't effect them.

Hey Sig,

What do you think of the tendency of both conservatives and liberals to idolize and romanticize certain groups of people? We all know that folks in both camps DISLIKE whole groups of people, but no one ever notices that they also put certain categories of people on the pedestal. For liberals, the list includes blacks, gays, people with AIDS, intellectuals, etc. while conservatives worship cops, soldiers, people from Israel, and, as you've no doubt noticed, rich people.

Your thoughts?

"I wonder what Obama thinks about when he reads Brave New World."

I actually laughed out loud when I read this comment, mike. Yeah, it's strange -- bordering on absurd, even -- to consider what Premier Obama would think about while reading a dystopian novel.

Because either he's not in favor of the policies pursued (i.e., statism) to get to the proverbial Brave New World, indicating a profound amount of cognitive dissonance (or doublethink -- to use the Orwellian vernacular) on his part, given his demonstrated political philosophy; or he *is* in favor of said policies, making him unequivocally evil (if the instances in history during which leftist ideology has been given unmitigated control are any indication).

So, our president, the guy in charge of the nuclear codes, is either hopelessly delusional or actively anti-American. What the fuck happened to this country?


Have you read "Red State, Blue State, Rich State, Poor State"? Because it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about, as evidenced by yahoo-linker above. Poorer states (Ed Glaeser would say states that industrialized later) are more Republican than rich states, but within those states richer people are to the right of poorer people. Looking at the entire country, rich people are more Republican.


> People making over $200,000 per year voted

Sorry, but that's not rich. That's a good income and it does put one in the upper tier of wage serfs, but when using a more accurate definition of rich ( > $10 million NW) we see that rich people overwhelmingly voted for Kerry as well as Obama.

Class warfare is and always has been the rich pitting the lower classes against the middle classes to protect their own wealth and status.

-Mercy

The NYT's five-thirty-eight blog had an interesting chart about Obama's declining poll numbers, and which groups have turned most sharply against him. He's face a big loss among hispanics, but the over $90,000 a year set has remained far more loyal than the under $25,000 crowd: http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/19/confidence-in-obama-and-in-the-economy-declines/

I think there are many problems with your thinking here, but to start with: what do you think those rich peoples taxes would fund (assuming tax rates and funding are even related. Its hard to see empirical evidence for that proposition)? Tax reductions for white Texans? Try "empowerment" programs for feral animals run as patronage for swpls. Stupid Texans don't know what's good for them.

What this book presupposes is... What if he's never read it?

He may have just heard it talked about as important. Analogous to black people misusing big words.

Check the CNN exit polls for the 2010 congressional elections. The more money voters made, the more likely they were to vote for Republicans. The rich seem to have had some buyer's remorse since 2008.

Rich liberals love Obama....he is black you know!

"For liberals, the list includes blacks, gays, people with AIDS, intellectuals, etc. while conservatives worship cops, soldiers, people from Israel, and, as you've no doubt noticed, rich people."

Liberals worship victims and thinkers. Conservatives worship warriors and winners.

It's the geek-jock divide. ;)

"$200000 is a middle class salary. Billionaires prefer Obama."

Yup. People with net worth of $1 to $10 Million voted for McCain. That category includes everyone from an old couple who owns their own house and has a healthy but not astounding 401k, to a guy with a McMansion and his own thriving dental practice/local construction company. People with a net worth over $10 Million voted for Obama. These are the very wealthy who don't really need regular income to get by.
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2008/10/13/the-rich-support-mccain-the-super-rich-support-obama/

I think our problem is more zombies than vampires. As such the rich are friends with the quant-literate and nondelusional at present. It's Dracula & Van Helsing vs. Planet Z.

"Poor proles in Texas" are defined less by their poverty than their stupidity and/or insanity -and the hallmark is less a position on taxes in 2011 than the focus on desiring a "balanced budget ammendment".

Dubya,
I think conservatives like soldiers and cops because they feel like generally they are performing the proper functions of government which, as Locke put it, would be the protection of life, liberty and property. Though, in the case of the military, there may be a certain primitive flag-waving patriotism involved. I'm not saying patriotism is a bad thing; it could go either way.

"“The Bayou Trilogy,” by Daniel Woodrell"

Woodrell is the author of "Winter Bone," which was made into an indie film that got a Best Picture nomination last year. From the parts of "Winter Bone" I could read on line, he's a good writer, one who specializes in Ozark Scots-Irish rednecks. In general, Obama has pretty good taste in fiction. I've noticed that Obama likes to read quality books about Midwestern small towners, either to try to figure them out or to get in touch with his Kansas roots.

"Class warfare is and always has been the rich pitting the lower classes against the middle classes to protect their own wealth and status."

Not necessarily, much of the middle class unprovoked of its own volition wages war against the working class. While the owning class* can and does enter said warfare the game is more accurately described as a negotiation instead of a war. The owning class leverages their best alternatives to negotiated agreements that undermine the numbers of the working class, such as outsourcing, proliferation of robotics, and hiring cheap immigrant labor. They also pull the zone of possible agreement in their favor over time. This creates a scenario where the owning class could simply dictate the demands of a "negotiation". A worldwide minimum wage comparable to America's and allowing the developing world to have greater independence and freedom would effectively undermine some BATNAs of the owning class while the ZOPA in said negotiations would be fair for all parties involved.

"Looking at the entire country, rich people are more Republican."

Are rich people looking at the entire country? One should also note that FDR was considered a traitor to his class.

"The rich go crazy whenever capital gains increases are threatened. "

Who are doing the threatening? Other rich people.

Again, my tax proposal is the best: if you have a net worth greater than $10 million, then you will pay a 15-30% tax on all of your wealth, including unrealized capital gains.

Such a tax policy will steadily erode the business and capital base of the Democratic Party.

These are for the most part projections and calculations of our psychologies, anyways. We're all probably doomed, regardless of what ideology holds sway. "Democrats" "Republicans" -even "people worth more than $10 million", these are macrosocial populations that we walk around having emotional reactions to. It's not that different from having passions about the weather or the surrounding geography.

some rich people may love Obama--but it's the poor and stupid who adore him.

"In general, Obama has pretty good taste in fiction. I've noticed that Obama likes to read quality books about Midwestern small towners,"


It is still fiction. What non-fiction does he read? At some point, adults have to deal with reality. Obama should hire someone like Inductivist, 'Ron Guhname' to dose him daily with the reality of who people are and what they believe.

map,

Subject to such a high tax rate set at a relatively low net worth, people affected would be insane not to give up their citizenship, take their money and move elsewhere. There would also be relatively little incentive for hard work. I suspect it would accelerate the U.S.'s transition to banana republic.

Mark,

I mention the police, especially, because at one time I too looked up to them as brave souls who stood between "us" and "them" In my eyes, they were protectors willing to put their lives on the line just to keep the law-abiding safe. That was my attitude about the cops until I had a couple of bad encounters with two highly unprofessional sheriff deputies over a period of just a few months.

I believe that both were trying their best to provoke me into saying or doing something that would have given them an excuse to escalate the situation. During the last encounter, I was told to get out of my vehicle. Keep in mind that these were minor offenses related to my license plate. In both cases I was polite to the officers, who were rude and provocative. If I had taken the bait, I have no doubt they would have arrested me and possibly used one of their "non-lethal" weapons in the process.

I'm sure a lot of folks who've "assault the police" and resisted arrest did so because the cops deliberately angered them, knowing that people do dumb things when they're mad. I would imagine that black people are more likely to give in to the urge to get unruly, and that might be the reason that so many of them find themselves in jail cells with sore heads

There are a lot of bad cops.

You don't get it nebbish, the U.S. wouldn't allow these people to give up their citizenship and take their money and move elsewhere. Also, the point is (or a point) that these uber-rich don't work that hard for their money, anyway.

And finally, money isn't their motivation for their activity, anyway. Do you think Rush Limbaugh or Michael Jordan (who I just saw in a commercial) work for the money?

Nebbish,

"Subject to such a high tax rate set at a relatively low net worth, people affected would be insane not to give up their citizenship, take their money and move elsewhere."

Frankly, Neb, I don't care. Let them go. There is nothing I cannot stand more than a rich progressive like Warren Buffett demanding the rest of us pay exorbitant taxes while he isolates 99% of his net worth from the Feds. It's the same type of progressive that insists on diversity for everyone except himself.

Who cares what he or people like him produce? What good is that production when income taxes, or outsourcing, or white flight make the fruits of that production unattainable?

And you know what? I bet you he won't leave. I bet he won;t take his money with him. I bet he will then shut his mouth and pay his taxes like everyone else. We already have a society where the top earners already pay the vast majority of taxes. No one has "gone Galt." What's left is getting the balance of the rich, Democrat crooks to feel the heel of the jackboot on their necks. Maybe then they will less inclined to opine on matters.

Since Gadhaffi has been overthrown by a Muslim electorate that's more genocidal than he is I'll cross post what I just wrote at UR here:

Moldbug: "Choose Empire"

Hamas: "Choose Democracy"

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/liveblog/libya-aug-22-2011-0244

Monday, August 22, 2011 - 00:44 - Libya

Hamas welcomes the revolution freeing Tripoli and congratulates Libyans on the great victory they have achieved, Sami Abu Zuhri, a spokesman for Hamas, said in a short statement to the press on Monday.

Hamas wishes that this victory is a turning point in the history of the Libyan towards freedom and prosperity, Abu Zuhri added.

"Have you read "Red State, Blue State, Rich State, Poor State"? Because it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about, as evidenced by yahoo-linker above. Poorer states (Ed Glaeser would say states that industrialized later) are more Republican than rich states, but within those states richer people are to the right of poorer people. Looking at the entire country, rich people are more Republican.

Posted by: TGGP | August 19, 2011 at 10:20 PM"

I'm amused you're of the opinion facts, evidence, and logic are any match for Sigma's theorizing which consists of baseless assumptions, self serving moralizing, and rumor mongering.

More seriously, yes, Gelman is correct that richer whites vote Republican (not that facts will change Sigma's opinion, mind you...)

Interestingly, according to the Pew Research Center the only white voters who voted a plurality (47% Obama to 43% McCain) for Obama were whites earning 30K or less.

Why a plurality of poor whites voted Obama, your guess is as good as mine.

But the fact poor whites voted 4% more for Obama than McCain would explain why Pat Buchanan's pitchforkers and Sam Francis' "Middle American Radicals" never materialized: They were too busy voting Democrat to listen to paleoconservative appeals for racial unity.

This is why White Nationalism, Ron Paul paleolibertarianism and paleoconservatism are going nowhere; a plurality of the WN/Paleocon target demographic voted Obama.

I suppose my ill-made point was that the threshold of $10M for such a high wealth tax is too low to avoid collateral damage among the higher end of the income-dependent, upper middle class striver set among whom will still be found some conservatives. It's the problem of the Obama and Buffett income tax plans from the reverse direction. Their "wealthy" income tax thresholds (particularly Obama's) are so low that they will disproportionately hit the middle class without doing much of anything to the really wealthy, as you have also gathered since you are proposing a wealth tax to get around this. But your wealth tax threshold is too low to avoid a similar outcome. People with billions won't be hurt as much or as fast as people with $20M, who will be reduced to the threshold level in a few years.

Posted by: Pussy Galore
"some rich people may love Obama--but it's the poor and stupid who adore him."

I think you're onto something here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

rich people don't want their taxes raised, they want their middle class competitors' taxes raised

Uh, nebbish -- it's not as if map and my wealth tax plans are close enough to being implemented that we need to argue about the details. This is more about having a comeback to wealthy people who say they aren't paying enough taxes and who want to increase the INCOME tax. As long as wealthy people keep their mouth's shut and don't attack the middle-class, we're fine with not attacking them.

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