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August 02, 2011

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link not working HS

[HS: Fixed.]

the link to the article isn't working

LOL that she trots out the usual canard that the tests are biased against poor blacks.

"She described a schism between some White teachers and the school’s largely African-American administration. The administrators, she said, mistook her stance that her students were being set up to fail for a belief that they were incapable of succeeding."

Ya see, if you believe the kids can't pass because they're genetically incapable, then you're a raciss'. Far better to cheat than to bear that odium!

And what's most telling is that Atlanta has a TON of suburban schools in middle-class areas that have a 60-85% black student body. These schools have absolutely DISMAL results on standardized tests, even though they are very well-equipped and clean, normally on par with suburban "white" schools.

This explodes the myth of "blacks do poorly in school because they attend crumbling schools." Data also shows that blacks in Atlanta perform much better in school when spread out as thinly as possible across many disparate schools.

GA State SAT average for blacks: 852/1600
GA State SAT average for all: 941/1600
GA State average household income: $63,000

Westlake High (97% black)
SAT average for blacks - 890/1600
SAT average for school - 884/1600
Avg. Household Income: $53,000

Decatur High (48% black)
SAT average for blacks - 867/1600
SAT average for school - 1064/1600
Avg. Household Income - $67,000

North Cobb High (30% black)
SAT average for blacks - 918/1600
SAT average for school - 970/1600
Avg. Household Income - $70,000

Lakeside High (29% black)
SAT average for blacks - 901/1600
SAT average for school - 1069/1600
Avg. Household Income - $96,000

Roswell High (15% black)
SAT average for blacks - 984/1600
SAT average for school - 1118/1600
Avg. Household Income - $115,000

Star's Mill High (8% black)
SAT average for blacks - 1016/1600
SAT average for school - 1084/1600
Avg. Household Income - $86,000

Walton High (4% black)
SAT average for blacks - 956/1600
SAT average for school - 1142/1600
Avg. Household Income - $130,000


The article attempts to blame the cheating on NCLB and thus GWB, but the fact is that cheating was widespread long before NCLB. Check out this article by John Cannell who exposed and tried (and failed) to stop cheating on state tests in the 1980s and 90s: http://www.tegr.org/Review/Articles/vol1/Lake_Woebegon__Twenty_Years_Later_1_.htm

"Why do stupid children need high self-esteem?"

Black children are well known to have high self-esteem, as good as or better than whites.

"Why do stupid children need high self-esteem?"

Everyone needs a high self-esteem. If we are going to care about happiness then we should care about self-esteem. People need to feel valuable and appreciated.

Status anxiety might kill you, or make you kill other people. Ingroup favoritism is healthy, because it frames any status struggle categorically. When you lose and are not the fastest man in town, you cheer for the fastest guy in your town, if he doesn't win you cheer for fastest man in your county, then for the fastest guy in your country and so forth.

If there aren't no ingroups for you to belong into, then it's you against everyone else, and if you are not the fastest, most important person, then screw you. Importance of racial identity is revealed by the amount of cheering that a frenchman (yuck!) Lemaitre gets.

The failure of American (USA) identity is revealed by the fact that most people (excluding americans if that is possible) can't tell if Usain Bolt, Tyson Gay are Citizens of the USA or not, and if they or one of them is not, where are they from?

"Data also shows that blacks in Atlanta perform much better in school when spread out as thinly as possible across many disparate schools."

Arrow pointing in wrong direction.

Data show that high performing blacks choose to go to schools with a lower percentage of black students.

If we moved the low performing blacks to whiter schools, they would not do better. However, higher performing blacks figure out how to get there on their own. These groups are different people.

[HS: Agreed. The type of black parent who would choose to live in a nearly all-white neighborhood is an atypical black person, so the abilities of the average black child shouldn't be judged on the basis of these atypical blacks who probably have higher IQ than most other blacks and pass on their higher-IQ genes to their children.]

"Importance of racial identity is revealed by the amount of cheering that a frenchman (yuck!) Lemaitre gets. "

We're Americans, we don't pay attention to track and field.

"Everyone needs a high self-esteem."

False. Everyone needs a self-esteem that corresponds with their personal qualities and achievements. High self-esteem is the product, not the cause, of high achievement.

People should feel valuable IF they have done something of value. People who have done nothing should, correctly, feel worthless. People should feel appreciated IF they have done something worthy of appreciation. People who have done nothing should, correctly, feel unappreciated.

Trying to raise the self-esteem of the ignoble, vicious, ignorant, lazy, and worthless is a futile effort in any event, since such people know they have done nothing to deserve praise.

"High self-esteem is the product, not the cause, of high achievement."

I couldn't agree more. I think this also explains part of why typical high school education and typical jobs suck. In the case
of high school, you are doing contrived exercises and not building, imagining, or discovering anything new. In the office job area, you are
A cog in a machine with a narrowly defined role. Your work is far removed from the final result, and your output may not have value independent of your firm. Contrast this with, say, farm labor which is immediately and visibly rewarding.

I give credit to onestdv for some of these ideas.

"Data also shows that blacks in Atlanta perform much better in school when spread out as thinly as possible across many disparate schools."

Arrow pointing in wrong direction.

Data show that high performing blacks choose to go to schools with a lower percentage of black students."

It can be both.

Even if you take ONLY the low-performing blacks as a group, it is better to spread them out across many different white majority schools. They're more likely to adhere to white norms and will absorb middle class values better than they would in a majority black school where regression to the mean kicks in.

Black leaders know this. This is why they cry "apartheid!!" and "segregration" every time whites push to have neighborhood schools and/or end the busing of blacks to distribute them across school systems.


But no, it was definitely excessive when I said that blacks perform "much better" when spread across majority white schools - they're still limited by their IQ and won't come close to white achievement - by they will adhere to education-friendly cultural norms and concentrate much better.

"We're Americans, we don't pay attention to track and field." But if you don't, who in God's name does?

Blacks do indeed have higher self esteem, showing some of the conventional wisdom on the cause of low achievement is wrong:

"The poor academic and economic achievement of black people is often blamed on low self-esteem, the result of discrimination from birth and endless negative stereotypes. But the most definitive study on the subject now contradicts this belief: black teenagers do not have lower self-esteem than whites, but higher....

The study also shows that black self-esteem has not risen over time. The theory of many psychologists was that as blacks gained in civil liberties, their self-esteem would rise. But the study shows it has never been low."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/jun/04/anthonybrowne.sarahryle

Psychologist Thomas Bouchard, one of the most important hereditarian researchers, says that the reality of non-low black self-esteem was long a taboo subject in psychology:

"One of the great dangers in the psychology of individual differences is self-censorship. For example, when I was a student, it was widely accepted that black self-esteem was much lower than white self-esteem, and that was a cause of differences in achievement between the two groups. Now that's been completely overturned—there is virtually no racial difference in self-esteem. But people had enormous amounts of data [showing this] that they didn't publish because it did not fit the prevailing belief system. How much wasted effort was generated by the flawed self-esteem work as an explanation of the black-white IQ difference?"

Source: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2009/07/thomas-bouchard-against-group-think-and.html

I believe lots of data on racial differences in IQ have not been published for similar reasons.

I proposed a solution to address this problem the last time the issue of school performance was raised:

http://www.halfsigma.com/2011/07/hbd-vouchers-and-republicans.html?cid=6a00d8341bf6ae53ef015433c53ee2970c#comment-6a00d8341bf6ae53ef015433c53ee2970c

"That [tabla rasa] assumption has lead to teachers in bad areas to be unfairly burdened with unrealistic demands to do the impossible and unjustly blamed when they fail, as well as highly incentivizing systemic cheating as preferable to being financially and professionally penalized for failure to do what cannot be done."


The sentiment the teacher expresses here is an implicit acknowledgement that her task was impossible due to the students she was given, but she displays the level of compassion and dedication you would WANT in a teacher.

Does anybody who believes in HBD blame her, really?

She's not single-handedly going to reform the Pennsylvania school system to treat this issue equitably and intelligently, and she also doesn't have the ego and brass balls to posture like celebrity education-grifter Michelle Rhee, who's preferred solution to poor student performance was to bitch at teachers.

So what can she do given the hand she'd been dealt?

She knew they were screwed anyway. Her comparatively difficult situation factored neither in her treatment as a professional nor a person who simply was trying to make the best of a bad situation.

She's done the best thing she could, which is come forward with her admission of wrongdoing, and explain the nihilistic frustration that boneheaded school reform has produced.

She knows better than anyone that the low-IQ students she was expected to turn into average performers gain *nothing* in their repeated test failures and that their needs for a useful and purposeful education also benefit society by keeping them out of jail and teenage pregnancy. This is what I believed she meant by the self-esteem remark.

Its not that she wants cocky ingrates, she just wants them to believe that there's still a place in society for them (i.e. something to lose) despite not being very intelligent.

Discovery of a trade, hobby, or other such interests in the course of a broader practical education opens those avenues and provides good reason for socialization.

Even stupid people want a reason to be respected.

Bearing a child or brandishing a gun are two ways which such people often command respect that have dreadful consequences for our society.

Of course they cheat. Their jobs depend on it. Teachers can be fired if student test scores are too low, because nobody wants to admit that test scores have a lot more to do with student IQ than with the quality of the teacher.

If you knew that you would be fired from your job if you couldn't pass a test that wasn't even a legitimate assessment of your ability, wouldn't you be tempted to cheat?

"Trying to raise the self-esteem of the ignoble, vicious, ignorant, lazy, and worthless is a futile effort in any event, since such people know they have done nothing to deserve praise."

In my experience, these folks tend to have self-esteem by the boatload. Thinking highly of themselves comes quite naturally.

"The type of black parent who would choose to live in a nearly all-white neighborhood is an atypical black person"

Not all black students who attend mainly white schools live in white neighborhoods, and vice-versa. School district boundaries don't always coincide with neighborhood racial lines.

Case in point: my elementary school. Back then, which was when humans were just starting to evolve opposable thumbs, the school served an almost all-white Joe Sixpack neighborhood. About 10% of the students were black, however, because the district boundaries included a small (just a couple of blocks) black neighborhood on the edge of the city's downtown area. I don't know whether that was intentional or not.

"teacher cheating is commonplace throughout the United States and not limited to Atlanta."

Of course. Particularly because grade inflation (hello, IV League undergrads) is, fundamentally, the same form of cheating.

*Discovery of a trade, hobby, or other such interests*

Except, are they even smart enough to do that? At an average IQ of 85 are they capable of doing anything that gives them a chance to be middle class, or are they doomed to living in poverty or on state support, or replaced by cheaper automation? For all intents and purposes, nobody wants to admit that this segment of the population regardless of race is doomed, and that those one standard deviation above them aren't going to reap the benefits of the American dream either. If anything, it simply fuels the socialism that those on the right have been fighting for years while arguably justifying a welfare state.

Ghetto people exhibit that "spurious aristocracy" attitude that Tom Wolfe noted decades ago. the behavioral and material aspects of it are called "game" and "bling". Loads and loads of self esteem projection there.

Did anyone click on the Guardian article on black self esteem? Anti-racism advocates now belieev there must eb even more discrimination against blacks since their self esteem is higher than whites but they score lower. They just can't see that big elephant in the room.

Protect the narrative at all costs!!!

"For all intents and purposes, nobody wants to admit that this segment of the population regardless of race is doomed, and that those one standard deviation above them aren't going to reap the benefits of the American dream either."

Exactly right. Conservatives refuse to face this fact because it implies that free markets don't work. We've created a technologically advanced society that for the most part does not really need people with IQs below 95-100 for anything. We could easily automate most of their jobs, yet we keep on pretending there is something meaningful for them to do. Liberals want to pretend that these people are trainable, conservatives want to pretend they are lazy. No one wants to deal with the hard facts.

"Even if you take ONLY the low-performing blacks as a group, it is better to spread them out across many different white majority schools. They're more likely to adhere to white norms and will absorb middle class values better than they would in a majority black school where regression to the mean kicks in."

Well, that's great for the low-performing blacks, but how does it help the white kids in the white-majority schools? Ooops, not at all, and in fact it hurts them.

It is NOT my kid's job to transmit "white norms" and "white middle class values" to ghetto trash.

"It is NOT my kid's job to transmit "white norms" and "white middle class values" to ghetto trash."

Yeah, no duh. I agree.

I wasn't advocating having your or my children responsible for transmitting any values to low-performing kids.

I was pointing out a specific instance where data supports one point of Half Sigma's HBD argument in regards to education - that lower IQ kids (especially blacks) need indoctrination on middle-class (white) values just as much as they need to learn the ABC's and the three R's.

Peter A,

How do you propose "dealing" with them?

Average people aren't going to like having jobs and paying taxes so stupid people can do nothing all day. And bleeding hearts will regard giving them low status service jobs as "exploitation".

"I wasn't advocating having your or my children responsible for transmitting any values to low-performing kids."

Really? Seems to me that was exactly what you were advocating.

You said "it is better" (i.e., this is your preferred course of action) "to spread them out across many different white majority schools" (i.e., where my kids are) because "they're more likely to adhere to white norms and will absorb middle class values better than they would in a majority black school" (i.e., you think stupid black kids can and should learn middle class norms and values through proximity to my kids).

Back away from it now, if you want, but that's plainly what you said.

"Average people aren't going to like having jobs and paying taxes so stupid people can do nothing all day. And bleeding hearts will regard giving them low status service jobs as "exploitation"."

That is true davver. So what is your solution? There probably is no easy solution. One thing I do know is that immigration certainly isn't helping.

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