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September 09, 2011

Comments

Welcome back-----third world life style.

Well, there aren't any taxes when your just paying cash to people on the side of the road with a truck full of potatoes. Also, I bet many of these farmers are not complying with the sometimes onerous regulatory costs placed on farms.

Maybe all those economists employed by the state can enlighten us why there are no significant economies of scale in the particular case of agriculture...

Most our local farms are run by Hmoungs, little compact guys who can work the fields much more energetically than big out of shape white people. Then, will succeeding generations of Hmoungs really want to take over, or will they pursue those finance degrees instead?

Then there are the small time organic farmers..one of the most energetic just quit and sold her place, because she couldn't keep up the work, and apparently had no *partner* or kids to help or take over.

Farming is hard!

It seems like the big advantage here is cutting out the middle man. Rather than the produce being shipped to factories, processed there, and then shipped to supermarkets where it's bought by consumers, people are growing food at home or buying it directly from the growers, and doing some of the storing and processing themselves. And, of course, it's likely that there are fewer embedded taxes in the sale of this produce, since a significant amount of the production is off the government's radar.

Eastern KY has always been poor. The only industrial jobs you could ever get there was as a coal miner. Mechanization, not offshoring, is what killed most of those jobs.

Plenty of people have been canning and pickling their entire lives. Farmers markets are a new development, but it's really just centralizing the roadside stands that have been around forever.

I think you're reading too much into this story.

Nothing tastes better than what you grow on your own land, or what you slaughter behind the woodshed.

These people will find themselves on the receiving end of an EPA raid in short order...

This is city folk thinking. If you grew up in a really rural area like I did, you think it's weird and not normal if you *don't* grow any of your food. Land is the cheapest thing and everyone's got a lot more back yard than they can use so why would you not have a garden or a greenhouse? The effort on a lot of vegetables etc is minimal and it will mostly just grow on its own so you end up with almost free stuff as long as you have the land.

In a rural area, the difference usually is that the richer people will have even larger gardens and they can grow even more of their food than the poor people. In the city, you have to be well off to afford a large garden but my parents are a farmer (from family with a lot of land tho) and a schoolteacher and I still grew up with several acres of apple trees and berry bushes and other stuff.

Very small farms have double in number the last few years. Folks retire to hobby farms, etc. Also, maybe SWPL demand for unusual stuff.

Eastern Kentucky has always been third world.

Easter Kentcuky is the poorest part of America and has no NAMs. How's that possiible?

Maybe some all Mexican border counties or reservatons are poorer, but not by much. I read a piece on an East Indian doctor working there who said the people were poorer than where he came from in India. Eastern Kentucky is hell on earth.

Farmer's markets are an end run around value transferance activity. Food goes directly from the producers to the consumers without all the middlemen and tax men getting a cut. Blogger Charles Hugh Smith has written extensively about "the end of paying work" The underground ecnomy is growing rapidly right now. Another popular activity is antique and scrap picking. A guy can make more money from 2 hrs. of going through garbage dumpsters than from working all day at Wal-mart. Demand for on the books labor is very low and may remain low, but people still need to eat.

"Easter Kentcuky is the poorest part of America and has no NAMs. How's that possiible?"

Racism has its uses. Keeping the NAMs out probably cuts down on already high crime levels. Keeping the Jews out (present company excepted) makes sure they can keep on keeping the NAMs out. ;)

Can someone help me understand here?

The fine folks who live in Eastern Kentucky are White anglo saxon protestants. They have very high rates of alcoholism, dysfunction, and very low incomes.

At the same time, the Jat Sikhs who move from India to Canada seem to have relatively low rates of substance abuse, low rates of dysfunction and upper middle incomes.

As per the lessons of HBD, IQ correlates to income. Can we thus conclude that the white anglo saxon protestants in Eastern Kentucky just happen to have very low IQs compared to other white anglo saxon protestants, or is there something in the culture of Eastern Kentucky that causes this.

Putting it another way, are the problems of Eastern Kentucky genetic or cultural?

Here's a common sense proposal that would bring those industrial jobs back to the US: http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/a_scaled_tariff_would_help_bal.html

Libertarians: before you reflexively respond with your usual objections, read the comments on the article. Libertarians there already brought up those objections, and the author cogently refuted them.

City folk who come to the country to retire to a farm are probably second only to Californians who return after the first cold winter, in forms of entertainment to northern rural folk. This is far from a new trend, few people have the skill or diligence to grow more than a token amount of their yearly food requirements.

"Putting it another way, are the problems of Eastern Kentucky genetic or cultural?"

Both! These things feed on each other. Let's look at Ashkenazi intelligence: a cultural pressure for jobs that required high intelligence such as trade and banking resulted in selection for high intelligence.

Similarly, while WASPs tend to be brainy as ethnicities go, the ones born in Eastern Kentucky are descended from ones who didn't leave Eastern Kentucky, who tend to be the less brainy ones. The culture then becomes anti-intellectual and encourages the few smart people born there to leave. The reverse is true in Cambridge or Palo Alto.

You can't assume every population that's descended from the same ancestral group is going to be the same over time. It's sort of a leftover from the old 19th-century ideas of eternal essence of races and similar silliness. Scandinavians used to be Vikings, now they drive Volvos. Similarly, Jews have turned from mountain men into lawyers. I suspect the prophets would be rather nonplussed by Scarsdale. Conversely, Greeks have turned from cosmopolitan philosophers and traders into insular, conservative, family-oriented small businessmen here. It's one of the amusing paradoxes of Western culture that Athens and Jerusalem have switched places.

Good on ya Wencil.

"Putting it another way, are the problems of Eastern Kentucky genetic or cultural?"

Eastern Kentucky especially but all the surrounding coal fields are really bad. W. Virginia is the third whitest state, with the second highest obesity rate, and the lowest college graduation rate IIRC.

The Bajan Red Legs are descendants of Scottish indentured servants and are much poorer than black Bajans.

There is a documentary Scotland's Sugar Slaves. It's really interesting. In the documentray a black Caribbean intellectual explains the Red Legs as suffering from the effects of inbreeding. Maybe. I doubt it.

Culture matters, a lot. The particular time and place matter. I wouldn't be surprised if the children of Indian immigrants score higher than their parents.

IQ is not a thing which is measured. IQ is a measure.

If person A scores lower than person B, but the two live in very different cultures what can be said about the native ability of either? Nothing.

If both live in the same culture what can be said about the native ability of either? Nothing.

The HBD IQ this IQ that people don't know what they're talking about most of the time.

SFG,

"Keeping the Jews out (present company excepted)"

You are a Jew who lives in E. Kentucky? If that's right, what's the problem there? Is it the people? Did all the smart ones emigrate a long time ago or what?

Jaakkeli is right; on the countryside people have always grown crops, because it's rewarding to eat your own harvest, gardens look pretty, everyone's doing it and it's part of the lifestyle.

The only news here is that they are making bigger patches and selling output on farmer's market (expanding supply to higher demand). Earlier, food used to be so cheap in the supermarket that gardeners only sold economically insignificant amounts to relatives, neighbours and colleagues.

Isn't hunting a much better way to save money on your food budget?

Posted by: jaakkeli
"This is city folk thinking. If you grew up in a really rural area like I did, you think it's weird and not normal if you *don't* grow any of your food. Land is the cheapest thing and everyone's got a lot more back yard than they can use so why would you not have a garden or a greenhouse?"

Because the amount of pounds of produce you can yield relative to the amount hours you put into gardening is less than what you'd get if you simply got a normal job and then went to the grocery store.

or maybe I'm missing something here?

I read a piece on an East Indian doctor working there who said the people were poorer than where he came from in India. Eastern Kentucky is hell on earth.
______________________________________________

Well, that doctor is lying through his teeth. Eastern Kentucky folks do not engage in "open defecation," like some half of Indians and Pakistanis. Only someone defensive about his/her own Third-World roots could believe such lies.

And for whoever mentioned Sikhs in Canada, check out rates of incarceration and gang involvement for the Vancouver Sikh crowd. Only a very thin slice of Indians are high-IQ and the Sikhs, well. . . .

quote:
"The effort on a lot of vegetables etc is minimal and it will mostly just grow on its own so you end up with almost free stuff as long as you have the land."

I smell bull sh!t.
Without the aid of machinery or even draft animals to do the heavy work, growing enough food to feed yourself does NOT provide a decent standard of living. Actually I think there's a word for it and it's called subsistence farming...the lowest level of standard of living possible on this planet aside from living in a hunter / gathering based society aka the stone age. It's a common SWPL fantasy to think gardening is a viable alternative to our current modern food production methods.

well actually it's also wildly popular amongst the hippy eco-utopians
http://www.dancingrabbit.org/

They're not WASPs, they're mostly Scots-Irish.

They may literally be from England and are Protestant, but WASP usually refers to a higher-class group.

Albion's Seed is a must read for everyone who reads this blog. http://www.amazon.com/Albions-Seed-British-Folkways-Cultural/dp/0195069056/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1315664400&sr=1-1


HS, have you read it?

"Isn't hunting a much better way to save money on your food budget?"

Absolutely. Try it, you'll like it! And you can get simple and highly effective firearms quite cheaply these days, as well as the ammo. Can take care of 2 legged animals as well. But that is another comment...

"Because the amount of pounds of produce you can yield relative to the amount hours you put into gardening is less than what you'd get if you simply got a normal job and then went to the grocery store."

No, this isn't true at all, at least when you're talking about the "luxury" produce - not potatoes or wheat. If you're going to grow your own wheat, you might as well become farmer, but if you're going to grow your own apples or raspberries the effort really is minimal.

For example, when I was a small kid we decided that we wanted some raspberry bushes since all the old ones were kaput. The initial work was pretty minimal, you actually only buy a few plants and then wait for the plants to spread by cloning over the next few years. From then on it was a few hours of work cleaning the old dead plants every spring and for that we got hundreds and hundreds of pounds of raspberries every fall.

Of course we still had the work of picking them but the value here is well worth it unless you're very well off and maybe even then as you can simply hire some teenager to pick for you and you'll be saving money. We used to make what would now be about 30 euros per hour selling this stuff on the right days on the right spot - pretty damn good for teenagers and of course we paid no taxes. Of course if we had tried to turn it into a fulltime job we'd be stuck sitting selling stuff even on average rainy Wednesday noons and it would go down to 3 per hour but since this was extra income we would do it when the time was right.

When it comes to stuff like berries, the price you pay for them in a store is very much about the picking and the logistics that requires you to handle squishy stuff one small box at a time instead of stuff like potatoes that you can just throw at the back of a truck by the ton. It's a very simple opportunity for savings or a bit of extra money if you have the land for it. Actually, the actual berry growers all offered deals where you could show up and pick your own berries at a ridiculously lower price than you'd pay at a store - it's a good deal for them since so much of their cost is actually paying for the picking labour.

"Without the aid of machinery or even draft animals to do the heavy work, growing enough food to feed yourself does NOT provide a decent standard of living"

I never said it's worth it to grow enough to feed yourself. What's worth it is growing the stuff that's actually expensive relative to the effort which is basically anything that can't easily be converted to mass machine farming.

Most people get the bulk of their calories from stuff like wheat which is basically worthless to grow on your own backyard and then they add some more expensive vegetables, meat, fruit etc. That stuff is well worth growing on your own. When you add the point that if you're doing it for extra income, you can focus your selling on the hot spots at hot times instead of bulk selling and you'll really make good hourly wages for it.

Some animals are also pretty minimally easy. For example we sometimes had turkeys which basically meant buying a few young ones from a hatchery, keeping them in a small cage for a while and then just letting them roam around for the summer while occasionally dropping some turkey feed in a bowl. We first thought we would fence some unused land for them but it turned out that they just stuck around and didn't wander very far so we did basically nothing for them. In the end it was some very cheap turkey meat for an utterly minimal effort and not that much money spent on turkey feed as they'd even eat on their own when they had plenty of space to roam - well worth doing if you have the empty acres.

oh, come on. People have hobby farms for fun. Gardening is enjoyable for some people. Yes, they sell the excess cheap or can it. They do it first because they like it. The fact that it is cheap is a distant second.

Re: alcoholism in eastern Kentucky.

The rate of alcoholism seems to be higher among caucasians from the northern fringes of Europe such as Scotland, Ireland, Norway, Sweden and also in Russia. My theory is that humans were originally mostly all vulnerable to alcoholism, but it didn't matter if they weren't practicing agriculture. Once agriculture caught on then people figured out how to make enough alcohol for alcoholism to become a problem. So in the last 10,000 years in much of Europe and Asia people began to evolve genetic protections from alcoholism (probably different mechanisms in Europe than in east Asia). The people in the northern fringes of Europe perhaps have been farming for a few thousand years less than people further south, so they haven't had as much time to evolve protection.

This theory explains the extremely high rates of alcoholism in aboriginal peoples around the world who are descended directly from hunter/gatherers. It would also explain why women are less vulnerable, since the evolutionary pressure on women would be higher since they bear and care for infants. Infants of alcoholic mothers would have a lot less chance of surviving in primitive agricultural society.

If the people in eastern Kentucky are descended from Scots this might help explain the alcoholism. Also, as others have suggested, the population may be depleted since anyone smart/functional enough to move away has probably done so. In Scotland itself the rate of alcoholism is really quite appalling in the present day. Possibly the non-alcoholic people were more likely to emigrate to Canada, Australia, etc. (though plenty of alcoholics emigrated as well, to be sure). The decline of religion might be a factor to, since the old style Scots Presbyterians were strict teetotalers.

I don't think there is a correlation between alcoholism and intelligence. A lot of famous novelists and poets are alcoholic. The first prime minister of Canada was an alcoholic from Scotland. I think a community/country can function pretty well if up to maybe about 20% of the population is alcoholic. If you get upwards of 50% alcoholic the wheels start coming off and the whole community becomes dysfunctional, at least judging by the native communities in Canada.

****Because all the jobs created by the industrial revolution are either moving to China and India, or are reserved for children of the rich, poor people are reverting to pre-industrial ways. ****

If true... this is... AWESOME!!

This month's Harper's has a piece by a Vermont schoolteacher who says many of his kids have parents who can no longer afford to be farmers.

E. Kentucky is essentially the white version of the Mississippi Delta. Both featured raw materials that had no value added (cotton in the MS Delta, coal in EKY, just raw extraction, and shipping of material out of the region. Both were backbreaking labor, but low skill. Both featured large landowners and company towns, some of which paid in company scrip, thus limited exposure to normal civil and economic life. A life like that leads to low education, low initiative, servileness, a sense of hopelessness and a poverty of imagination, amongst other things. What E KY has that takes it to another level is the sheer scale of environmental degradation and exposure to toxicity (not that the pesticide world of the Delta doesn't either). You can sneer at the enviro angle all you want, but would YOU live in such a cesspool, regardless of who your neighbors were? Hell no. Notice that the parts of the South that SWPLs have moved to do not have near the levels of such destruction (western North Carolina, parts of E. TN and N. Ga., etc.) Few go to coal counties for their back to the land utopia. Can you imagine literally dynamiting off your own homeland? I'm not going into the issue of energy sources, but seriously, who the hell is willing to live in that? I suspect that the higher IQ people left at least a couple of generations ago.

I've worked in different levels of agriculture at various times in my life. Organic farming is possible, but not the SWPL dream they imagine it to be. There is no way that anyone can farm 5 acres, much less 50 or more, organically without serious labor and equipment inputs. Soil building and management is a year round job. It takes a combination of top grade soil conditions, real scientific knowledge that keeps up with the latest research, a real work ethic, and luck. It is not subsistence farming in any way, and anyone who is doing real production on an organic farm better have their act together. It is much harder than row cropping BT corn.

"got a normal job"

What's a normal job E? What's normal today isn't what was normal 250 years ago AND isn't what IS normal at all.

E is a manufactured human, that is not human.

@SFG
You are correct, it is both, the culture pushes out the driven, forward thinking and high IQ members of the population. Leaving the low IQ to continue the cycle.
I am from Eastern Kentucky and a regular reader here for years. This is my first post.
Also, there is AK Steel, Ashland Oil, CSX Railroad and several shipping companies along the Ohio River, in N.E. Kentucky.
You will find very few coal mines in the Greenup, Carter, Boyd and Lewis Counties portion of the state.

Nicolai Yezhov:
"If person A scores lower than person B, but the two live in very different cultures what can be said about the native ability of either? Nothing.

If both live in the same culture what can be said about the native ability of either? Nothing.

The HBD IQ this IQ that people don't know what they're talking about most of the time."

Oh, the irony!

If a person claims that comparing IQs tells absolutely nothing about native ability, what can be said of this person? A lot.

@E Growing all your food versus a few kinds of vegetables is completely different. It doesn't take that much effort to grow greens, tomatoes, herbs, or squashes. I wouldn't be able to live off that, but that doesn't mean it isn't an economical use of my time to grow some of my food. This isn't a dichotomy.

The East Indian doctor is perhaps referring to the particular home he grew up in when he compares the poverty he saw where he came from to the poverty in Eastern Kentucky. If life in the Appalachian foothills were more poverty-stricken than that of the lower castes in urban or rural India, we would have heard about that by now. I don't think obesity is a major health problem among the poor in India, and I don't think that's because they all have Stairmasters at home. In short, the guy is full of shit.

I think some commenters are missing the point that -- in addition to providing a supplementary food source -- the gardening described in the article is something that its practioners generally enjoy. I suspect that very few of these people were indifferent to gardening for years but grudgingly got into it to avoid starvation. They evidiently like it AND it supplements their income.

I realize the commment was somewhat tongue in cheek, but claiming that Jews are being kept out of E. Kentucky implies that there are Jews who are trying to get into E. Kentucky . . .

E., Did you read what you quoted? jaakkeli is talking about vegetables, not corn or wheat.

@Reality

Tell me more about Sikhs. They are often promoted as the enemies of Muslims.

"Putting it another way, are the problems of Eastern Kentucky genetic or cultural?"

Go there and give an IQ test to a sufficiently sized random sample. If they have an average IQ that's fairly close to the white mean, the problems are most likely a result of culture/lack of economic opportunity. Plenty of countries in Eastern Europe are very poor, due to decades of communism, but usually have national average IQs similar to those of other white nations. Poland actually does better than the US in scholastic achievement despite spending a fraction as much per pupil (because they have very few NAMs to bring down the average).
The poverty of a society/region is probably a less reliable indicator of the overall IQ than relative poverty within a society. For example, East Asian countries have typically been very poor, despite the relatively high IQs of their residents. The majority of residents have lived in deplorable conditions. Yet in western countries East Asians tend to achieve levels of wealth at or above the white mean, consistent with their average IQ.
That said, I've been to Eastern Kentucky. While they are indeed very poor, and have very high rates (for whites) of welfare dependency, it's not the chaotic, squalid sort of place one typically finds in the third world, or in a typical NAM neighborhood.

Nobody is "reverting" to anything here. People growing enough produce to sell it at farmers markets or roadside stands are farmers, not gardeners. Reporters at the NYT understand urban coastal culture and little else. Nothing they have to say about rural America should be taken seriously.

"The fine folks who live in Eastern Kentucky are White anglo saxon protestants."

The term WASP refers to elite, high church Northeastern Protestants, not Anglo-Protestants in general.

Northeastern WASPs are very intelligent. Judging by the GSS, Presbytyrians, Episcopalians and Unitarians clock in IQs in the 105-110 range, like Jews do.

"Keeping the Jews out (present company excepted) makes sure they can keep on keeping the NAMs out. ;)"

1) The Europeans exterminated most of their Jewish population and, yet, Judenfrei Europe still is importing NAMs.

2) I'm not aware of any evidence or documentation that Jews are responsible for importing NAM immigrants or that Jews support mass immigration in polls. Do you want to back up that allegation of disloyalty with evidence, asshole?

"As per the lessons of HBD, IQ correlates to income."

Conscientiousness (i.e. working hard) has a stronger correlation with income than does IQ because income obeys a power law distribution.

"I read a piece on an East Indian doctor working there who said the people were poorer than where he came from in India."

East Indian men are extremely defensive about where India stands compared to the West and Northeast Asia because they are insecure.

The women are generally pleasant to be around, though.

"Conversely, Greeks have turned from cosmopolitan philosophers and traders into insular, conservative, family-oriented small businessmen here."

Like Armenians, Greeks are actually very successful everywhere they work, except in their ancestral homelands.

These people will find themselves on the receiving end of an EPA raid in short order..."

EPAers conducting the raid may find themselves on the receiving end of a shotgun or a deer rifle. Of course that assumes that they have enough spares for their accidentally punctured tires that may constantly occur when traveling through rural areas to conduct such raids...

"You are a Jew who lives in E. Kentucky? If that's right, what's the problem there? Is it the people? Did all the smart ones emigrate a long time ago or what? "

No, just shooting my virtual mouth off after reading too much Sailer, methinks.


On reflection, I think if any Jews showed up there, the locals would probably think money was coming in and be happy. Not all stereotypes are negative.

"...or in a typical NAM neighborhood."

Nothing is as squalid or chaotic as a typical NAM neighborhood. Or NAMs themselves...


"I read a piece on an East Indian doctor working there who said the people were poorer than where he came from in India."

Yeah, all those rural Kentucky proles suck.

Good luck finding one in all of India like this nowhwereville Kentucky guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakota_Meyer

"If a person claims that comparing IQs tells absolutely nothing about native ability, what can be said of this person? A lot."

I am a automatic quailifier for the BGI CGU study Nanonymous. Are you?

https://www.cog-genomics.org/

Change the environment enough and the order of measured ability may change.

As usual the commenters on this blog and HS do not understand the difference between native ability and IQ. IQ is a measure. IQ is not measured, because IQ is not a thing liek height.

IQ is heritable within a certain range of environments. So what? It could be that that range of environments is better for some than others, just like the desert if better for cacti than it is for a redwoods.

How heritable is IQ over all environments past and present? Does IQ mean anything at all for pre-industrial populations? Is there any such thing as "native cognitive ability" or is it just putting words together and assuming they refer to something?

These are questions which Nanonymous cannot ask, becasue he cannot understand them. He prefers to rap and jive like a balck guy.

'Reporters at the NYT understand urban coastal culture and little else. Nothing they have to say about rural America should be taken seriously."

Amen. The East Coast has its own parochial/provincial attitudes that are hardly the stuff of wisdom. There's a reason why 2/3 of the country responds to "Massachusetts liberal", "washington mindset", etc so negatively in political campaigns.

On the Jew thread: there's lots of Southern stereotypes that have a basis in reality, but dislike of Jews is not one of them. Much of the Jewish community in this country was in the South until the big East Coast Ashkenazi arrival at the turn of the 20th century. While it's true that the upland south has never had many Jews, the lowland South (MS, Al, LA, etc) had sizable Jewish communities. When I was young, every town around me with at least 10,000 people had a synagogue. The Jewish decline in the South happened in the 70s and 80s with the decline in independent retail stores. Believe me, where I grew up, the town was sad to see the Jewish population decline.

"He prefers to rap and jive like a balck guy."

Yeah, those balck guys. Always wrapping and jiving...You dig?

The Undiscovered Jew wrote:
"The term WASP refers to elite, high church Northeastern Protestants, not Anglo-Protestants in general.

Northeastern WASPs are very intelligent. Judging by the GSS, Presbyterians, Episcopalians and Unitarians clock in IQs in the 105-110 range, like Jews do."

-------------------------------------------------
Presbyterians are much more likely to be of Scottish descent than Anglo Saxon.

Several people have mentioned that Anglo Saxons are more intelligent than people from Scotland and Ireland. Is there any evidence for this? I've never heard this suggestion before.

I don't know about Ireland, but a lot of scientists, inventors and explorers came out of Scotland, including James Watt, John Napier, Joseph Lister, Alexander Graham Bell, Sir Alexander Fleming, Alexander Mackenzie, Simon Fraser, etc.

I just read an article about how some of the empty land in Detroit is being used to grow food.

http://www.guernicamag.com/spotlight/1182/food_among_the_ruins/

"We're living in an economy where productivity is no longer the goal, employment is. That's because, on a very fundamental level, we have pretty much everything we need. America is productive enough that it could probably shelter, feed, educate, and even provide health care for its entire population with just a fraction of us actually working.

According to the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization, there is enough food produced to provide everyone in the world with 2,720 kilocalories per person per day. And that's even after America disposes of thousands of tons of crop and dairy just to keep market prices high. Meanwhile, American banks overloaded with foreclosed properties are demolishing vacant dwellings to get the empty houses off their books.

Our problem is not that we don't have enough stuff -- it's that we don't have enough ways for people to work and prove that they deserve this stuff."
http://www.rushkoff.com/blog/2011/9/7/cnncom-are-jobs-obsolete.html

Not Too Late,

Here are a bunch of Indian heroes.

http://ikashmir.net/kargilheroes/index.html

Just a start.

Peter, that is a list of great fighters who died. That describes tons of poor bastards who die. Meyer is a Medal of Honor winner for saving the lives of 36 fellow soldiers. He saved them at huge risk to himself, just because they were human beings. And he was a corporal!!! He wasn't an officer who is remembered because his family is so and so and connected. Read that list of Indian heroes. Sure they aren't total losers or unfaithful, but they also don't come from nowhere and their deeds were lauded because of their importance to the objective, not for saving fellow soldiers. It is a totally different thing.

Like jaakeli says, people don't grow crops in their backyard. Most people just grow a few tomatoes and peppers. A garden fork, mulch and a half dozen plants doesn't take long. If one has time then its worth it. If one doesn't then maybe not. Then, again, if you're that busy it might be worth taking the time.

My parents and grandparents always had a garden. My grandfather grew up on a farm and knew how to do it. He could easily feed a family on a tiny plot with minimum effort. One can get several harvests a year out of the same dirt if they know what to plant and when to plant it. Like anything else, it's quick and easy if you know what you're doing.

I second Johnny Rotten's comment about Jews in the south. They've always gotten along. Rumours to the contrary have more to do to with the prejudice of others than the prejudice of southerners. Then, again, the southern Jews have lived there for generations. They were a different batch than the northern marxists that sneaked in during the 1900s. I'm not sure how many old school southern Jews there are left. I've known a few. But some of the younger generation is screwed up just like everyone else.

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