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December 30, 2011

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I lived with my parents for a year after graduation, but a reversed situation (my Dad was sick and I had to help with that). I had pretty good autonomy but it was annoying sometimes.

Rent seems like a really big expense when you are 22 and entry level, but if your successful then by 30 it will be a much smaller part of your income (assuming you live in modest areas and in modest apartments).

The main reason to live on your own is to have sex with who you want when you want, which has pretty much always been the case.

Also I was NYC suburbs so while the hour train commute sucked it wasn't too bad.

I love the idea of living with my parents, but certain realities make it extremely undesirable. Geography isn't too much of an issue.

I think the best you can hope for, if you don't have your own place, is to get a girlfriend with her own place. Just don't be embarrassed about the fact that you live with your parents. If confronted, state it matter of factly, and that you are happy with your choice, and perhaps that your family asked you to, your parents need help getting around, etc.

Womanizing will be difficult - some girls live with their parents, some are uncomfortable having sex with their roommates around, and most notably, it's harder to get into a girl's place early on than it is to invite her to your own place.

Good advice, HS. Living with your parents is a fine choice if you can carve out some space and if you don't drive each other crazy (maybe that's a big "if" for some people). Of course, your parents may impose some silly rules like no overnight visitors, but, with all the money you're saving, you can always go to a motel for a quicky or a pleasant weekend. Or they may insist that, you know, you actually DO something rather that drink beer or play video games all day. But if they'll accept your being a full-time student as "doing something," you can blow seven or eight years pursuing an advanced degree in a field like like art history and still have a fun time. Maybe you can even hit them up for tuition and a stipend. "Why yes, young Brett is living at home while continuing his education with graduate studies in medieval Italian literature at East Podunk State. Isn't that wonderful!"

-- (6) Living with one’s parents can be demotivating because life is pretty inexpensive if you have free rent. What’s the point of working? --

I never got beer money.

"But if they'll accept your being a full-time student as "doing something," you can blow seven or eight years pursuing an advanced degree in a field like like art history and still have a fun time. Maybe you can even hit them up for tuition and a stipend."

Unless Mom and Dad are truly clueless, this isn't going to be a workable strategy. They're more likely to insist that their son or daughter study something more marketable or get a job.

[HS: Most parent's don't read conservative blogs. They probably think all education is really good.]

The best of all worlds is when your parents pay for you to rent your own place, and also provide spending money and pay your tuition!

But seriously, even when I was in that sweet situation, I knew it couldn't last forever, and that knowledge was my motivation to finish my degree and start my career. Especially motivating was when she said, "if you can't get a job, you can go on welfare and move in with me." Gaaah, I'd rather have joined the Foreign Legion than do that!

I recently graduated from college and I'm living with my parents. All I have to say is that, whatever faults your parents may have, you know what to expect out of them (unless they're alcoholic). During my time in college, I roomed with a number of different people. A lot of them were nice, fine college students, but my first roommate was an antisocial, very rude freak who did nothing but nap during the day and play video games all night (I never wondered why we was getting a 2.0). Another roommate was a Nazi when it came to having a clean room, and wanted no noise beyond 9:00pm. Another one was a psychopathic kleptomaniac, who stole $1200+ from the rest of us before we found out and got it back.

Landlords aren't especially nice either. I lived in a cottage by myself last summer. Since I had no car, and the landlords didn't want their Mexican maids to deal with my laundry, I had to walk 30 minutes uphill in the California summer sun and pay about $20 to get my clothing washed. It was well within their right, I suppose, but it was a raw, raw deal, since I didn't know about how laundry was supposed to work until after I moved in.

In general, the American populace seems to be getting more and more dysgenic, inhospitable and shortchanging as the years pass, and the experiences I listed above were in relatively upscale settings. If you can bear living with your parents, it's important to note that the random man on the street is not likely to be any easier to live with.

@ Davver, The game community, whose judgement I trust resolutely, all agree that if you can't get laid living at your parents house you aren't going to improve TOO much just by moving out into a crappy apartment. I agree that living with ones parents can sap the confidence and ambition, but if a girl wants to have sex with you she will do it in your parents house, in a car, in some woods, her parents, anywhere you can think of really.

My story- I lived with my parents for about 1 year after graduation in spring 2009. I brought a couple girls there (against parents express wishes), and for some others i went to their place. It wasn't ideal but it was tolerable. Not like I was getting Roissy levels of pussy anyway.

I had a blue collar gig, then a unpaid internship that didn't pan out at all, and then a temp job from a good agency, but there was no real expectation from my father for me to move out because there was a sort of understanding that the jobs I had were not serious jobs and i had not "really started" yet (meanwhile, my mom was thrilled i lived at home). I blew almost every dollar i made at the bars and an apple computer.

When I got a career track job right away moved out to a 2bdr apt with a roommate. I now live 20 minutes away from my parents who have a 6bdr home to themselves and wont rent out any rooms, even though they complain about money. Part of me woul like to move back to save the money but i like the additional independence (and the way better logistics)

At age 27 any game with a decent personality should still be able to get laid if still living at home and having financial troubles.

At age 35+ it's a little different.

Let me understand something: there is no longer any social stigma attached to being a suburban girl who professionally spreads her legs and sucks cocks on camera for everyone to see. But in an economy with few if any jobs for men, it's still contemptible to live with one's parents. I get it.

[HS: That seems to be correct.]

"Most parent's don't read conservative blogs. They probably think all education is really good." Half Sigma


That's what bothers me about the people who disparage struggling college grads. Many of them come from prole families who didn't know the importance of attending the right schools. That same "useless" degree from Harvard has no problem opening doors and enabling access to lucrative career tracks.

When I was in my 20's I totally slacked off. At age 31, I looked back at the past decade and felt a tremendous amount of guilt for wasting my life away. But the story does have a happy ending. I have turned my guilt into a motivating force to make up for lost time. I'm pushing things into overdrive now. I have never been more productive.

My savings rate is probably 4 times the rate of a normal person of the same age / income bracket as me. Living with your parents can either be a bad thing or a good thing it just all depends what you plan on using the cheaper cost of living for:
1) slacking off
2) saving money

If you choose option 2) for ten years and you'll have enough money to buy a small house free and clear. Your friends will be jealous, especially the married ones. *wink*

It's not that living with your parents means girls won't have sex with you, as much as living with your parents means that you won't MEET girls in the first place. You aren't nearly as motivated to go out.

"But if your goal it to work in finance, that means living in New York City or perhaps southwest Connecticut where there are a lot of hedge funds."

New York has the biggest concentration of finance jobs, but they're found all over the country. In fact, they're steadily getting more dispersed.

[HS: Most parent's don't read conservative blogs. They probably think all education is really good.]

I really, really do not believe that only people who read conservative blogs know about the declining value of most non-STEM college degrees, it's pretty much common knowledge by now. Mostly it's just young people with It-Can't-Happen-to-Me syndrome who remain deluded.

"It is usually less expensive to own rather than rent the same-sized dwelling, primarily because the government subsidizes you with tax breaks. "

Let me try to clarify this. It is true that, as a homeowner, you get to deduct your mortgage interest and property taxes, IF you forgo the standard deduction in favor of itemizing your deductions. Homeownership is no guarantee that this puts you ahead. You usually need to have significant charitable deductions or a pretty expensive house.

But a landlord gets to deduct ALL expenses associated with the property: interest, taxes, insurance, maintenance, AND claim a hefty deduction for depreciation. This last is only deferred, although there are ways to get out from under the tax bill later. Yes, the landlord gets these deductions, not you, but this inevitably makes general rents lower than they would otherwise be.

In general, landlords are trying to achieve a break even cash flow, which means that as a renter you are paying the principal of your landlord's mortgage payment, the accumulation of which the landlord keeps. But the landlord already has substantial equity tied up in the house, and is assuming all the risks associated with fluctuations in housing prices, etc. Given the pathetic returns of the stock market, this is not a bad deal for us landlords, but be aware of what's at stake.

All of which is to say that buying only makes financial sense (as opposed to personal sense) if you are settled enough in your location and income that you can stay in the house long term, or rent it out yourself when you leave.

[HS: But when you own, the you don't get taxed on your imputed rental income, which weights in favor of owning.]

"there is no longer any social stigma attached to being a suburban girl who professionally spreads her legs and sucks cocks on camera for everyone to see."

Who are we talking about?

Good response, Academy. That's the only way owning beats renting.

Your next move? Work, Save aggresively, and build capital. This = options. Do this for a down payment on a house if nothing else more profitable presents itself.

Hey Jay: How does it affect your dating/social life? I had to live at home during college and think it was a terrible start in life that I'm still paying penalties for.

"(5) Not all parents give their children space. My mother likes to hover around me whenever I’m in their house, and I don’t like it."

If only you'd stop jumping on the couch, eating the Play-Doh, and picking on your sister.

"Let me understand something: there is no longer any social stigma attached to being a suburban girl who professionally spreads her legs and sucks cocks on camera for everyone to see"

What's your point? Are you really complaining?

And all kidding aside, virtually all sex workers are from prole backgrounds.

Thanks for responding, HS. As always, I very much appreciate your insights.

The demotivation factor does weigh pretty heavy on me. I do wonder how much more motivated I would be to get a better job and make more money if I had the pressure of monthly rent payments to make, but at the same time, it seems somewhat pointless if all your extra labor is exclusively devoted towards raising money to give to some random jerk to pay for a service you're presently enjoying for free. It becomes a very hazy game of weighing a very unclear cost/benefit balance.

One thing I like about both parents and renting, as opposed to ownership, is the flexibility. It's true that living with my folks limits where I can work (though I live in a big, important city and my parents' place is in a great location), but buying a home in a bad location is even worse. I could leave my parents and move at any time, and if I was renting I could leave and move at any time. I'd hate to be tied down. I'm pretty spontaneous by nature, and I like having the freedom to pursue some new adventure should the opportunity arise.

As far as the sex thing goes, as the guy above said, there are lots of places you can do it. I usually have sex at the girl's house, but I've also done it in the car or the office or various other not-too-crazy places. Plus my parents take trips and stuff. There's always opportunities.

One thing to note is that hot girls have had their share of hot guys all throughout their lives. By the time they reach their mid 20's they want a guy who has it all so happy hunting gentlemen.

"(6) Living with one’s parents can be demotivating because life is pretty inexpensive if you have free rent. What’s the point of working?"

This is a good point. I lived with my Mom for a number of years, and while there were good reasons to do so (it wasn't strictly a financial necessity on my part), I think it definitely held me back professionally and socially. The main thing is that I was just too comfortable there.

By the way, I didn't have free rent. One reason I was there was to help support her and my sister, who has disabilities. Still, even with my contribution, it was cheaper and more comfortable for me to live with them than on my own, and I think that probably held me back to some degree.

Your current situation can't last.

Where's all this high future orientation high IQ people are supposed to have?

There's not much difference here between White Jay and some NAM on welfare, except for the indulgence of the parents.

Go to ND and get a job.

(6) Living with one’s parents can be demotivating because life is pretty inexpensive if you have free rent. What’s the point of working?
What's more demotivating than when you are forced to give majority of your income to the government (directly or indirectly)?
BTW, I live in one of Europe's socialistic paradises.

Sheila, you have a good job and a good family. What penalties are you talking about?

"Your current situation can't last.

Where's all this high future orientation high IQ people are supposed to have?"

It's a correlation, not an absolute rule. Look at all the chunky programmers.

"Go to ND and get a job."
And then you red-staters bitch about blue staters ruining the atmosphere of your hometowns... ;)

Now all you have to do is wait until your parents die and the whole place will be yours.


'I really, really do not believe that only people who read conservative blogs know about the declining value of most non-STEM college degrees, it's pretty much common knowledge by now. Mostly it's just young people with It-Can't-Happen-to-Me syndrome who remain deluded."

AKA dumb people who shouldn't be in college and can't pass STEM programs anyway.

Even back in the '80's when I was 17 and just starting college, I knew that nonsense degrees were a waste of time with no real upside. I started college in a STEM field but then about halfway through I married an older man who was working in a STEM field. After that I switched to something easy because I wouldn't have to be the main income earner and I could spend my extra time with him instead of studying. 23 years later, it has worked out great.

Stupid people make stupid decisions and don't notice obvious trends that even a 17 year old girl with a little sense could see.

I moved back in with my folks when I was 27 due to being deeply in debt. I lived there for about 4 years, paid off all of my debt (>$25k), most of a car, finished the last two years of college, and emerged debt-free with enough for a down payment on an FHA loan and a tidy sum in my 401(k). Living on my own I was saving almost nothing, paying a lot of credit card interest, and stuck in a decent-paying but dead-end blue collar job for want of a degree. It was the most miserable 4 years of my life but also the best personal and financial decision I ever made. Living with my parents, in my late 20s and early 30s, *was* the grown-up thing to do.

If you're in a situation where you're saving at best a few thousand a year there's a good chance you can save 3-5 times that if you're living with the folks. Paying off debt, saving for a home, whatever - all done 3-5 times as fast, thanks to fewer expenses.

Personal debt is is a huge problem in this country. Our declining affluence means that our old material expectations are now untenable. Anything that helps young adults get in a position where they can buy a home and start a family is good. So long as they aren't sitting in the basement playing Nintendo or surfing for porn it can be the wisest choice of all.

Life is a trade-off and a balancing act. One of my nephews has an engineering degree but he works on an assembly line with recent immigrants from Mexico. He had to go where the jobs are and take any job he could get. Outsourcing, immigration and automation are limiting the job opportunities. Living at home with parents puts a geographic handicap onto an already tough job market. Those who do live at home with parents should make an all-out effort at saving and investment.

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