George Zimmerman - Trayvon Martin incident, take 2

The more I think about this story, the more annoyed I get.

The MSM is happily spinning this as large racist white man shoots skinny innocent unarmed black kid, but the story could easily be fat unathletic Hispanic man shoots black football player in self-defense after being attacked and beaten.

The MSM has certainly done a crappy job about telling us anything about the individuals involved. I think they fear to look to closely because they might find that the more they look into the facts, the more it looks like self-defense.

Here’s a Chicago Tribute story about Zimmerman which doesn’t have much information.

From what I gather about George Zimmerman, he’s half white and half Hispanic. I don’t know anything about the exact Hispanic ethnicity of his mother. People have said he is Cuban, but is that based on a well-sourced news story or merely the assumption that there are lots of Cubans in Florida? Zimmerman looks too Mestizo, in my opinion, to be half white and half Cuban. If his last name sounded Spanish instead of German or Jewish, everyone would have said he was an Hispanic and this would not be spun as a "racist" white committing a "hate crime."

By all accounts, Zimmerman is fat, but I have no idea what the source is for his actual weight or size. And then there have been accounts of Trayvon only weighing 140 lbs, but I have no idea where that came from. Did the coroners weigh the dead body and release it to the public? Doubtful. Is his family purposely understating his weight in order to make him appear to be a victim? Probably. Other accounts said that Trayvon is six feet tall and 160 lbs. Big enough, and strong and aggressive enough with his football training, to beat up a fat guy who doesn’t exercise much. Not that I know anything about Trayvon’s exercise routines.

Zimmerman seems to be what some would call a loser. He did not graduate from college. He “aspired” to work in law enforcement, but obviously wasn’t considered qualified enough to get any sort of real job in law enforcement, so as a hobby he patrolled his gated community, an activity in which he was overzealous (because he had nothing else going on to give his life meaning), but he also helped to catch a real thief, and most of his neighbors didn’t mind his activities.

The article says he was married to “Shellie Nicole Dean, a cosmetologist” but there’s no information about whether he’s still married and if not what happened to the marriage. [Update: a commenter says they are still married.] He’s at least alpha enough to get married. As a burly Hispanic man who was arrested once for getting into a bar fight, he has more machismo than a skinny Asian guy.

It’s not clear to me if he’s a homeowner or if he lives with his parents, or even if he has a job. [Update: Based on info that he is still married, I suspect he lives in the house with his wife, and that his parents' names may have appeared on the deed or mortgage because they helped him buy the house (not uncommon), but that has given people the false impression that he lives with his parents.]

Zimmerman certainly doesn't represent the "white racist elite" who run the country.

Less is known about Trayvon. Apparently he has no criminal record and he didn’t commit any crimes that day, at least not before he got into a fight with Zimmerman. However, he was not a nice kid. He was suspended from school (according to CBS News), and you don’t get suspended from school by being the nice angelic kid the media is making him out to be.

The more I think about the more it seems to me like the following happened:

Zimmerman seeks a black kid he’s never seen before walking around the gated community wearing a hoodie. If people don’t get why the kid looks “suspicious” to Zimmerman then they are being purposely dense.

Zimmerman, rather stupidly, gets out of his car and asks the guy “what are you doing here?” or something like that. He asks this in a manner that Trayvon finds offensive, and Trayvon responds by attacking Zimmerman. Trayvon is stronger than Zimmerman (despite weighing less because Trayvon lifts weights with the high school football team while Zimmerman is just fat) and an aggressive fighter. Zimmerman gets scared, after being punched and knocked to the ground, and shoots him.

* * *

Kyle Rogers at the Charleston Examiner does a good job presenting Zimmerman’s side of the story.

Comments

[JP]

"obviously wasn’t considered qualified enough to get any sort of real job in law enforcement"

He should have played up his NAM roots!

[Scipio Africanus]

Trayvon *ran from Zimmerman* (while Zimmerman was in his car) initially, and thought he'd lost him. Then Zimmerman caught up to him again.

The kid was on the phone with his girlfriend as this was happening and she's said that he was scared and ran from Zimmerman while he was on the phone with her.

If anything, I think the Stand Your Ground law applies to Trayvon's fear of this obviously grown man essentially accosting him.

I get the feeling that you think Trayvon should have treated Zimmerman with the deference and respect that should be reserved for cops. But this guy wasn't a cop. Trayvon was certainly afraid and unsure of of what was going on, tried to remove himself from the situation by running first, and then tried to defend himself once Zimmerman attacked him first. He just didn't have a gun adn the other guy did, so now he's dead.

[HS: No, what I think is that Trayvon shouldn't have started a fight, if that's what happened. And it's common sense to always show deference and respect for someone who looks mean. When I see scary black people on the street, I show them respect by crossing the street and not trying to get their attention.]

[Thedcam]

The debate can rage on but the biggest tragedy is how many people are buying up all the hoodies they can, boooooo to hoodies, hoodies stink!!!

[Pussy Galore]

off topic: this PJ Media article sheds light on how mediocrities like Michelle Obama get a degree at places like Harvard:

http://pjmedia.com/blog/affirmative-action-and-radical-politics/

[AllanF]

Heinlein predicted this. An armed society is a polite society.

I think if Trayvon had not been so sure of his physical size differential, or Zimmerman so sure of his superior firepower, both men would have been more decorous in their interaction with the other, and therefore less chance for an escalation in order to "save face."

So once again, liberals and their ill-conceived good intentions have made society worse for it.

[Jehu]

Your narrative is probably pretty close to the truth, and is likely the reason that the cops didn't charge him in the first place. It doesn't contradict any of the known facts, unlike the MSM narrative.

It's also likely that a substantial portion of Zimmerman's net worth is locked up in his house, and that he's highly motivated to prevent his neighborhood from going downhill. Accordingly, he probably deliberately calibrated his speech to MT to make it clear that he was unwelcome in his neighborhood, counting on his gun to give him tactical dominance in case MT chimped out when confronted. Basically two people playing the hawk strategy ending badly. It's unlikely that Zimmerman threw the first punch---what with the injuries to the back of the head, that screams sucker punch, probably after Zimmerman said his peace and was turning to leave.

[MRM]

Which does the media bury faster: this NAM on NAM shooting or the spree shooter in France turning out to be a Muslim?

[Patrick]

[HS: No, what I think is that Trayvon shouldn't have started a fight, if that's what happened. And it's common sense to always show deference and respect for someone who looks mean. When I see scary black people on the street, I show them respect by crossing the street and not trying to get their attention.]

HalfSigma, in your lifetime, have you ever been directly or indirectly victimized by a black person before?

[HS: Yes.]

[Peter]

Why is everyone assuming that Zimmerman is a fat, out-of-shape blob? He may well be a naturally burly sort of man who is fit and very strong. I see guys like that at the gym all the time, they're the sort who'll bench 315 for multiple reps while not even breaking a sweat. Sorry, but I do not believe that he was in any danger of being physically overpowered or beaten by Martin.

On a different note, the fact that Zimmerman wasn't able to get a job in law enforcement means precisely nothing. Even when the economy's strong there are usually hundreds of applicants for every police job.

[HS: This is an issue of looking at known facts in a light more favorable to Zimmerman, because I am tired of the MSM imagining facts that make Zimmerman seem like some Klu Klux Klansman.

Until there some evidence otherwise (like he worked out a lot at the gym or he played sports), it's reasonable to assume that a Jewish Mestizo who weighs a lot is probably just fat.]

[Anon E. Mouse]

I think its pretty obvious he was too fat to be a cop. No cops start out that fat

[famously nameless]

I'm glad you clarified the Cuban issue. He clearly is NOT. His "Hispanic" mother is likely an 'india' from Mexico, one of the Central American countries, or the higher Andean regions.
What also mindboggles me is how the media makes it sound like blacks are defenseless sheep constantly picked on, when in fact the only thing they have in common with sheep is hair texture.

[Gary]

Just heard the 911 call, he does say "fin coons" found some info on him here http://completecriminalchecks.com/results.php?firstname=George&lastname=Zimmerman&location=all&sex_offender=on&court_records=on&doc_records=on&arrest_records=on

[Peter]

"Until there some evidence otherwise (like he worked out a lot at the gym or he played sports), it's reasonable to assume that a Jewish Mestizo who weighs a lot is probably just fat."

His ethnicity is irrelevant. Would you assume that a 240-pound black man is all fast-twitch muscle with minimal body fat?

As I mentioned, guys built like the way I suspect Zimmerman is built are a dime a dozen. You'll see them in weight rooms, biker bars, construction sites, and so on. They may not have much speed or endurance, there's no way Zimmerman could have caught Martin in a sustained foot chase, but they've got ample strength. More than enough to overpower a teenager they outweigh by almost 100 pounds.

[Georgia Resident]

[Until there some evidence otherwise (like he worked out a lot at the gym or he played sports), it's reasonable to assume that a Jewish Mestizo who weighs a lot is probably just fat.]

Is "Zimmermann" a Jewish name? All the Zimmermanns (admittedly few) I've known have looked very Germanic/Nordic.

[Lexus Liberal]

3/4 of young Americans do not qualify for service in the military due to physical unfitness, criminal record or lack of education(GED).

I'm assuming the qualifications for law enforcement is similar, so it's pretty dire and pathetic that the pool of eligible candidates are only 25%. This predicament is going to be a national security issue in the future.

[AllanF]

Hey don't forget the part where Trayvon ran when Zimmerman asked him what he was up to.

Let's see:
1) guy in hoodie the busy-body has never seen before when questioned/confronted runs away
2) pursuit of suspicious individual ensues, against the "advice" of the 911 operator (puh-leeze, these people are not officers in any way and are trained to council the serfs to always give-in. Would Zimmerman's actions be regarded any differently if he were a plain-clothes officer? I've seen YouTubes of plain-clothes cops pulling guns on nothing more criminal than speeding motorists)
3) Zimmerman upon catching-up to suspicious person starts getting his ass-whooped (between catching up and the whooping we don't know what happened)
4) Zimmerman, quickly in over his head shoots and kills the suspicious person in claimed self-defense (we don't know from how far away or from what angle)

I blame the adoptive(?) parents. If his name were Gonzales, this would have never made it past the police blotter in the local weekly.

[HS: The advice from the 911 operator was good advice. It would have avoided him getting beaten up and in the situation where he felt the need to shoot.]

[Haven't picked a nickname yet]

Yeah, Zimmerman was pretty clearly the bad guy in this one. He *shot* the kid, shot him dead, and there's no reason to think that Trayvon intended any harm at all.

Careful with this one, HS. I get that you're trying to reframe it in a way different from the "black martyr to racism" paradigm, but looking for ways to make Zimmerman a good guy probably isn't the way to go. Zimmerman, by all accounts, was a little bit of a nut.

[Conquistador]

"I think its pretty obvious he was too fat to be a cop. No cops start out that fat." - Anon E. Mouse

I recently took a police entrance exam and you'd be shocked at how many fat guys were there. I'd even say a majority of the applicants were overweight/fat. The few who looked decent were in their late 20's to early 30's. I suspect this crowd were the type who partied throughout their youth and now have little to show for it. Basically a lot of dregs apply for police jobs.

[Pussy Galore]

Siggie, has View from the Right been silenced? Do you know what this message means?

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/

[HS: Probably just an honest IT error involving PHP, but I emailed Lawrence to find out.]

[Patrick]

[HS: Yes.]

I appreciate your honesty. Would you mind elaborating as to what degree?

And as for the Martin-Zimmerman dispute, ignore race for a moment.

Don't you have an inherent problem with the fact that one guy went out of his way to approach another in an accusatory manner, without any probable cause of a crime having been committed (and against the commands of a 911 operator), and that this resulted in the latter party dead and unarmed, and the armed, instigating person claiming self defense?

If you don't, then you also shouldn't have any problem with the actions of Trevor Dooley, who is black, and who happened to shoot and kill a white man under the same rationale that you seem willing to absolve Zimmerman with:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2012/03/22/pkg-kaye-dooley-stand-ground-fl.cnn

Both brought a gun to a non-fight. Both instigated and escalated tensions with a stranger, and both claimed self-defense when they shot and killed that other person. Both of the deceased were simply minding their own business when a hothead with a gun and an authoritarian complex came to play enforcer.

What's the difference between David James and Trayvon Martin?

[HS: I've already said a zillion times that Zimmerman was stupid for confronting the guy. But Zimmerman being stupid doesn't mean that he's the most evil "white" person to ever live since Hitler, or that Trayvon didn't contribute to the problem by starting a fist fight.

Accusing Trayvon of being a thug who doesn't belong in the neighborhood (probably what happened) doesn't mean Trayvon is allowed to attack Zimmerman.]

[asdf]

"The Boondocks" covered this. It's called a "n*gger moment." Youtube it.

[Odds]

I honestly am hoping the black community gets a little more riled up about this. I am anxious to see something come to the forefront of this mockery of Political Correctness.

[Bernie]

One thing that does not get mentioned is that Zimmerman was bleeding from a head wound. The black kid did something to make the Hispanic fear for his life.

In any event, if this was just another black killing a non-black it would be a small local news story with no headlines.

[From Home]

Finally an article saying what I've been saying for weeks now. I live near the area and my wife personally knows both George and his wife (He's still married btw). I have wondered since the beginning if Trayvon was indeed scared and running away from George, why he didnt run home? The gated community is not that large and could easily be traversed in a matter of minutes, especially when running. So why didn't he just run home, unless he was lost and couldn't remember where his dad's condo was, thus he was walking condo to condo looking to see something familiar. In that case he would look even more "suspicious".

[Park Slope Pubby]

It's very tribal. The blacks are upset becuase a white person killed a black person. (I realize he may be Mexican, but he has a white name.)

The weird part is white people. White people do not get upset publically when a black person kills one of their own. In this case, they stand up for the black person, even though he was killed by a white person. I understand about white guilt and everything else, but both sides end up being (publically) on the same side: pro-black, anti-white.

White people are amazingly untribal. How does this end? I really don't know.

[Ian]

This reminds me of some other non-scandals of recent years:

* The Jenna Six: a gang of black thugs knocked down a white kid and kicked his face until his eyes swollen, and, horrors, got jail time for it. Oh, the inhumanity.

* A black guy is seen breaking into a ritzy house, and a cop comes by and asks him questions about what he is doing (failing to recognize him as THE Henry Louis Gates). Oh, the vile racism that stains the land.

* A black guy gets fired for lateness and stealing, and responds by killing eight former coworkers. But it turns out he claims to have, at some point, seen a "racial epithet" written on the bathroom wall. THIS NATION'S WHITE SUPREMACY IS THE WORST THING IN WORLD HISTORY.

[Conquistador]

"White people are amazingly untribal." - Park Slope Pubby

When a middle class white is denied entry into an elite white country club he identifies with the "oppressed" non-whites.

[Remnant]

It looks like Zimmerman was certainly being attacked. He also had a track record of stopping some crimes in his (increasingly crime-ridden) neighborhood. Get the following article out to others:

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

[helene edwards]

Peter, since you feel you know so much about black youth, what are the chances Trayvon called Zimmerman "motherfucker"?

[Big Don]

MSM is failing to mention that this incident happened around midnite, not the most innocent time for a hooded teenager to bee lurking in an upscale neighborhood. How about did he have any gang tattoos? Where's the security cam video from the convenience store showing Trayvon actually bought the Skittles, as opposed to shoplifting them?? Like, where's the receipt (the store would have a record)...?? Anything that might indicate he's a lowlife DAFNPOS has been covered up....

[jay]

Cosmetologist is a real prole white woman job. If you are employed in show biz, you are a makeup artist.

[Good Times]

I hope this shooting of some troublemaker of the darker hue leads to some more fun this summer.

[whiskey]

From what I've read, Zimmerman is Hispanic, adopted by a Jewish man. Gay or not, I don't know, but no adoptive mother has shown up. He was adopted speaking Spanish, according to his adoptive father. Hence the name, and looking Mestizo.

Cops did not charge Zimmerman, despite a dead Black juvenile. Suggesting strongly: a. Physical evidence backing up Zimmerman's story of a fight and being knocked down, firing upwards; b. a long criminal history as a juvenile for Martin. I have seen it reported that Martin did not live with his mother, because of gang involvement, and was staying with an aunt, not his father's girlfriend who lived in the complex and was reportedly not at home at the time.

This is ginned up to create riots ala England (so Obama can use street violence threat to gain power/votes and have in the back pocket martial law aka a self-coup like Fujimori of Peru if need be), and also remove self-defense laws and CCW from White people. Which other White people love, because it makes safety and security something as Sailer notes "only the right sort" of White person has, and no other "wrong sort of White person" has. Which is the point.

I'm sure we will get riots over this. Which is the point. Every time before Black riots have won concessions. This time? Probably not, a strategic over-reach.

[Patrick]

[HS: I've already said a zillion times that Zimmerman was stupid for confronting the guy. But Zimmerman being stupid doesn't mean that he's the most evil "white" person to ever live since Hitler, or that Trayvon didn't contribute to the problem by starting a fist fight.

Accusing Trayvon of being a thug who doesn't belong in the neighborhood (probably what happened) doesn't mean Trayvon is allowed to attack Zimmerman.]

What a nonsense straw man, reverse Godwin cop-out. Nobody is saying he's Hitler, they're saying he pursued and unlawfully killed a kid without sufficient reason and lied about it.

The only basis you have for the claim that there was a "fist fight" or that Martin "attacked" Zimmerman is Zimmerman himself, the only party to the altercation who isn't dead, and who presumably wishes to avoid a murder conviction by claiming self defense.

[HS: There was clearly a fight. Multiple witnesses said there was a fight. Zimmerman had blood on his face.]

[not too late]

"Zimmerman, by all accounts, was a little bit of a nut."

And hispanic.

[Anon E. Mouse]

Conquistador:"I recently took a police entrance exam and you'd be shocked at how many fat guys were there. I'd even say a majority of the applicants were overweight/fat. The few who looked decent were in their late 20's to early 30's. I suspect this crowd were the type who partied throughout their youth and now have little to show for it. Basically a lot of dregs apply for police jobs."

Was this before or after the physical tests? I dont know much about it but from what I do know is that police departments have physical requirements involving running a certain distance in a certain time that basically whipes out all of the fat people from contention.

Gary: "Just heard the 911 call, he does say "fin coons" found some info on him here"

Im too lazy to listen to the tapes but it seems like its one of those top down processing ("http://www.alleydog.com/glossary/definition.php?term=Top-Down%20Processing) things like people that find messages by playing songs backwords. Does anyone even say 'coon' anymore? If this is supposed to be an expression of the inner primordial racism of this man then hes not going to be searching his brain for obsolete synonyms.

[Good Times]

"I'm sure we will get riots over this. Which is the point. Every time before Black riots have won concessions. This time? Probably not, a strategic over-reach."

I can't wait!

[Christian zimmerman]

For all those that assume that Zimmerman is a jewish name you should know that 99% of people with that name such as myself are German Christians just thought I would educate you on that thanks.

[Becker]

The only two people who really know what happened are Zimmerman and the now deceased Martin. If the police had arrested Zimmerman, I doubt we'd be hearing about this now. Zimmerman himself probably wishes he'd been arrested at this point.

From what I have read and understand Mr. Martin had a right to be in the gated community as he was visiting someone who lived there. That alone makes it seem as if Zimmerman over-reacted.

The real anger from the black community is more about the lack of action by the police after the event - - not simply the event itself and that is totally understandable.

I can only hope we are able to get a clear idea of what truly transpired once this is all out in the open.

[Conquistador]

@ Anon E. Mouse

Yes this was before the physical examination. I'm sure the fatsos get weeded out when the running/push ups begin. Another thing I noted was the amount of trashy looking people with tattoos taking the exams. I was one of the few that actually looked normal but applying for the same job as these low class types made me feel like a loser.

[Dextrology]

I agree with the previous comment. As a black man, I care not so much that a Hispanic-white-mulatto-multicultural-Cuban-German-Sephardic-Jew-Mexican killed a black boy, I care that the Sanford police department apparently didn't give a fuck for about three weeks and then only started investigating when the media got involved. And the shooter is still walking free.

[Severn]

>"Nobody is saying [Zimmerman]'s Hitler, they're saying he pursued and unlawfully killed a kid without sufficient reason and lied about it."

I'm not dismissing that theory out of hand, but I'd like to hear some evidence to support it. Is there any?

[Gerald]

"The more I think about the more it seems to me like the following happened."

Sir you are lying. Based on the cell phone records, for which transcripts exist, Martin didn't attack Zimmerman because Zimmerman offended him. Martin was terrified of Zimmerman, perceiving Zimmerman to be a criminal intended to do him harm. And since Zimmerman was chasing him using his car, at night and in the rain - again facts which 911 tapes and the cell phone transcripts prove - what else was Martin supposed to think?

Martin didn't attack Zimmerman because Zimmerman "dissed him." At the very best possible scenario (for Zimmerman, and by the way, Zimmerman's story to the police has already been discredited by the cell phone transcripts, not that you are ever going to admit that) Martin chose to "get Zimmerman before Zimmerman got him." (Keep in mind: trying to get away was of to no avail, because Zimmerman had a car, Martin was on foot, and Zimmerman had already successfully chased down the fleeing Martin once.)

And as you keep pointing out, yes, Zimmerman is Hispanic. Well, you are aware that Hispanics victimize blacks in violent crimes all the time. The idea that a black person should never have any legitimate reason to fear being a crime victim of a nonblack person is ridiculous.

P.S. Being suspended from school does not make you a violent criminal. The fact that Zimmerman assaulted a police officer is far more relevant. But I see that you chose to omit that information also.

[HS: In other words, you say that Zimmerman looked suspicious to Martin, so Martin attacked him FIRST. Hmm, isn't that RACIST to attack an Hispanic man like that for no reason like that just because they look suspicious to you?

Second, there's no recording of Martin's cell phone conversation with hit girlfriend, the idea that he was "terrified" is conjecture and spin. If he was so scared, why didn't he run away instead of trying to beat him up?]

[sestamibi]

Christian Zimmerman--

Most often one can tell by the number of n's at the end. Zimmermann is most likely German, while Zimmerman is more likely (but not always!) Jewish.

I'm Jewish with a last name (which has numerous spelling variations) that is also of German origin (although my ancestry is mostly Russian and Eastern European), and I have met namesakes of both Lutheran and Catholic flavor.

My first name also is a common one among Jewish men of my age bracket as well, yet last summer I met a man about my age with whom I shared both first and last names (spelled the same way too!) and he was Catholic. As Cab Calloway once said, "one never knows, do one?"

And then of course, there was that Jewish guy Robert Zimmerman from Hibbing, MN, who was so distraught over the whole thing that he put it all behind him by becoming Bob Dylan.

[destructure]

HS writes, "The MSM has certainly done a crappy job about telling us anything about the individuals involved."

The MSM is misrepresenting evidence so I made an FAQ. It's well-documented.

http://destructure.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/trayvon-martin-faq/
.
.
There's no reason to think Zimmerman followed Trayvon after 911 asked him to stop.

http://destructure.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/what-if-zimmerman-didnt-ignore-911/
.
.
The police report lists Trayvon at 6’0 & 160 lbs. The report lists Zimmerman at 5’9 but doesn’t include his weight. He doesn't look as heavy as some are claiming.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

[Peter A]

"He’s at least alpha enough to get married."

Nothing "alpha" about that whatsoever. Especially since you haven't seen his wife, who could be a fat cow. He's not an omega, that's about as much as we know.

[Flico]

You have something against proles, Jay?

[Flico]

No, I still don't get why the victim looked "suspicious", which he probably did not anyhow, and I'm not being intentionally dense.

[superdestroyer]

HS,

Notice how the African-American community does not care about innocent until proven guilty when the accused is a non-black shooting a black man?

[famously nameless]

Gerald wrote:
"Well, you are aware that Hispanics victimize blacks in violent crimes all the time"

In areas whereBlacks and Hispanics are in close proximity, Blacks do it much more to Hispanics; Hispanics are just less likely to complain about it.

[JP]

"The weird part is white people. White people do not get upset publically when a black person kills one of their own. In this case, they stand up for the black person, even though he was killed by a white person. I understand about white guilt and everything else, but both sides end up being (publically) on the same side: pro-black, anti-white.

White people are amazingly untribal."

White people are VERY tribal. But there's more than one tribe. SWPL liberals do not regard themselves as being in the same tribe as prole whites - in fact, SWPLs do everything they can to signal they are not in the prole white tribe. SWPL whites regard NAMs as an excellent instrument for controlling prole whites (divide and conquer). SWPL whites therefore do not complain when NAMs kill whites; if the white is a prole, the SWPLs think it is good, and if the white is a fellow SWPL, the SWPLs prefer to "take one for the team" rather than punish the NAMs (which would only redound to the benefit of the detested prole whites).

[HS: But NAM violence rarely impacts the wealthier SWPLs who live in enclaves free of low-class NAMs.]

[Scipio Africanus]

"If he was so scared, why didn't he run away instead of trying to beat him up?]"

It's becoming clear that you haven't really read up on this.

He tried to run away from him once, but then Zimmerman caught up with him, got out of his car and probably ran up on Martin. At that point, Martin probably said to himself "I'm being attacked by a scary-looking grown man. I'm not going to let him just kill me." Unfortunately that's what wound up happeneing.

[HS: I think it's unlikely that Zimmerman would "run up" on him like that.]

[JP]

"NAM violence rarely impacts the wealthier SWPLs who live in enclaves free of low-class NAMs"

Yes, that's exactly why the wealthy SWPLs side with the NAMs against the prole whites.

[Scipio Africanus]

"I think it's unlikely that Zimmerman would "run up" on him like that.]"

The guy who'd been arrested before for getting into it with a cop? [HS: When he was several years younger and drunk at a bar.] The guy who appointed himself the neighbrohood watchman and had called 911 dozens of times in the last 3 or 4 years? [HS: There had been a lot of crime at the housing complex, and he actually helped to catch a thief. Yes, he was overzealous, but that crimes were happening occasionally in his neighborhood was not a figment of his imagination.] The guy who, on the 911 phone call, had clearly made up his mind that Martin was up to good, and declared that "they always get away"? [HS: He never saw the guy before and he was dressed in a hoodie. Yes, Zimmernan is a prole and not an upper-class SWPL who knows the PC ways of expressing himself.]

It's unlikely that a person like that would not start things by approaching Martin in a scary, menacing way?

No, it's quite likely.

You've got it all backwards. Zimmerman was the out of control NAM/prole troublemaker here. [HS: There's no evidence of your scenario. There was a fight, and evidence suggests Travyon threw the first punch and was the better fighter.] But because he was the one with the gun, he's alive and Martin is dead. [HS: Otherwise Trayvon might have beat him to death. Of course, Trayvon probably would have just run away after giving Zimmarman a good beating, but who knows?]

[Peter]

While I don't carry a pistol myself due to New York State's highly restrictive permit laws,* from what I have read at many sources, being armed changes one's entire way of thinking. People who legally carry guns often get a sense of great competency, for lack of a better term, and feel far more capable of handling crisis situation than they would if unarmed. What makes it odd is that this feeling even extends to situations not involving crimes. For example - and yes, this is something I've actually read - an armed person will often feel more capable if another person collapses from a medical emergency even when lacking any medical training.

What this all means is that George Zimmerman might have been far more inclined to pursue Martin than he would have been if he were unarmed. Not just because he would have had an increased ability to defend himself if Martin attacked, but also because he would have felt more in charge of the situation. An unarmed Zimmerman most likely would have heeded the 911 operator's order not to proceed further.

* = you can rest assured that if New York had more liberalized permit laws I'd be at the gun store in a flash. And no wimpy 9mm's for me; I subscribe to the starts-with-4 theory of handgun calibers.

[outlaw josey wales]

There are really two separate issues:

1) The media making it seem like this is white on black crime whereas in fact Zimmerman is not white. He's phenotypically Hispanic.

2) Evidence. I have seen precious little evidence as to what happened. Is it confirmed that Zimmerman shot this guy? If yes, then what is Zimmerman's affirmative defense (because otherwise it is some kind of murder)?

Why does no one even bother to look at the relevant statute? Florida law allows for a presumption of "reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself." This presumption is established by statute if there is unlawful entry into another person's home or vehicle. It does NOT apply if this occurs outside of the home, as is the case here. In that case 776.013(3) applies.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

Based on the paltry information we know of today, it seems like this should go to a grand jury for potential indictment.

[Matt in RTP]

Isn't the whole point of a gated community to avoid incidents like this?

When I finally buy my house, rest assured it will be in a development where the gate guards are lantern-jawed, ex-Delta Force commandos with black belts in BJJ and finely honed trigger discipline, not George Zimmermans.

[Jace_Monty]

Martin makes an excellent point. I thought the whole point of a gated community was to avoid the very things that seem to have set all of this in motion. What's the point of having a gated community if your place is broken into on so many occasions? I can somewhat relate to Zimmerman being mad as hell and not wanting to take it anymore. My home has been broken into on 15 different occasions. The cops do nothing!! Got so bad that I've said that the 16th time won't be the charm because I got a gun. If you even so much as bring your pinky toe in my yard, you're gonna be tasting lead and I don't care if you're black, purple, blue, white or any other colors in between. Zimmerman isn't innocent by no means but I get where he is coming from. As for anyone who says, "why don't you just move?" If I could afford to, I would. But since I can't, I gotta do what I gotta do, which is protect myself and my home.

[Major Variola]

A 6'3 footballer jumps a guy. Guy defends self with handy tools.

Either GZ punched himself in the face or evolution works.

[CheyenneP]

All of this seems futile to me. Suppose Trayvon's parents, Al Sharpton and such get their wish and George is arrested. There's a possibility he will be granted bail. If he makes his bail, once again, he's free...until his trial. People will be pissed and screaming "No Fair!!" about that. If he goes to trial, there is still the liklihood he could be found not guilty on all or nearly all charges he might be brought up on. Even if he's found guilty, what's the max he could face? My point is, no matter what happens, nobody is going to be fully satisfied with the outcome. More importantly, it won't bring Trayvon back. I'm not saying people should not get justice but the whole hoodie movement, these rallies that look like modern day lynch mobs...it's just overkill at this point.

[Conquistador]

Basic home buying advice.

1. Buy a house in an established community. This is important because you never know how a new area will turn up. My suburb was very promising but later suffered from over development which brought renters and low income housing into the area. Crime skyrocketed.

2. I don't care what your politics are but whenever you decide to buy a house make sure it's in a strongly conservative/republican area. Even SWPL New York hasn't voted for a Democrat mayor in 20 years after the city almost became Detroit.

[lil mike]

CheyenneP said: "Even if he's found guilty, what's the max he could face? My point is, no matter what happens, nobody is going to be fully satisfied with the outcome. More importantly, it won't bring Trayvon back. I'm not saying people should not get justice but the whole hoodie movement, these rallies that look like modern day lynch mobs..."

I was thinking along those same line, except I think in this case, there will be an arrest and jail time regardless of the evidence. We Americans are crazy when it comes to race, and I think from the Justice Dept on down they'll throw out every rule in the book to make sure they can grovel before the mob and show they got their pound of flesh.

[superdestroyer]

HS,

Why not make a big deal out of the death of Aliyah Shell http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-2-wounded-in-gage-park-shooting-20120317,0,1207128.story

A black girl killed by members of the Latin Kings does not help the SWPL score PC points.