George Zimmerman’s father speaks

Robert Zimmerman gives exclusive interview with WOFL Fox 35. He says that Trayvon walked up to Zimmerman and asked “Do you have a fuckin’ problem?” George said “No, I don’t have a problem.” George started to reach for his cell phone, but Trayvon punched him in his nose, breaking his nose, and George was knocked to the ground, where Trayvon proceded to beat on him for a minute. Trayvon noticed George’s firearm. Trayvon then said “You’re going to die now” and continued to beat George. Finally, George was able to pull his pistol and shoot Trayvon point blank.

Comments

[Dextrology]

Man, I can't take this anymore, my head's gonna explode.

[g]

Will be interesting to find out what the record of Zimmerman's facial and head injuries are--it's been reported he sought treatment the following day and that's when the broken nose was confirmed, I guess. If he'd been beaten around the head, neck, face, there should have been a doctor or nurse who noted that.
Bruising often doesn't show up until the next day.

I think it's shoddy police work that he wasn't taken to the hospital or that the police didn't have a doctor come into the police dept. the night he was arrested so the doctor could examine him and make note of every aspect of his physical state.

[g]

I don't know the layout, the size of his townhouse neighborhood so if it's large, I can understand GZ's not knowing the name of the street he was nearest--recall the 911 person wanted the name of the street.

I have lived in my subdivision 16 years and still can't keep straight the names of parallel streets off the main road, even though I travel past them almost every day, but that's me, notoriously bad with names. As a neighborhood watch guy, I'd expect him to know the names of streets in his neighborhood unless it's much larger than I have imagined.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I think anybody who has a son looking at a voluntary manslaughter charge will make up all manner of stories for his kin. Why are you putting stock in this? Did you expect him to narc on his son?

[Bob]

Wouldn't there be any evidence of bodily harm on Zimmerman? If there was, why didn't the public know? Surely that Zimmerman was attacked and that he has a broken nose would constitute an important fact in the matter.

[Conquistador]

Trayvon had the right to do and say what he did. Zimmerman benefited from white privilege. Cracka got what he had coming.

[mikeca]

"He says that Trayvon walked up to Zimmerman and asked “Do you have a fuckin’ problem?” George said “No, I don’t have a problem.” George started to reach for his cell phone, but Trayvon punched him in his nose,..."

If this, or something close to it, is what actually happen, then Zimmerman should be charged and convicted of manslaughter. When confronted by the person he had been pursing, Zimmerman failed to identify himself as a neighborhood watch volunteer. Zimmerman failed to say he had already called the police.

Zimmerman says he reached for his cellphone and Martin punched him in the nose. Had Martin seen his gun? Did Martin think Zimmerman was reaching for his gun? Did Martin think Zimmerman was a common mugger trying to hold him up?

It is insane to have untrained, armed volunteers running around our neighborhoods pursing people they think look suspicious at night. How can you tell the muggers from the neighborhood watch vigilantes?

[Momus]

The footage showing Martin's father displaying a large neck tattoo adds context for me.

[ToServeMan]

It's hard for me to take these "defenders of George" seriously. At this point, George may as well come out of hiding long enough to do one exclusive interview and tell his side of things. I don't know what to believe about any of this anymore. I think hearing George;s version of events from George himself may put a lot of this in a better context.

[HS: His lawyer is not going to let him say anything.]

[Dexelpred]

Mikeca: That's a great theory, it's too bad it has no basis in the law. You don't lose the right of self-defense because you fail to identify yourself as a neighborhood watch volunteer.

[Severn]

>"When confronted by the person he had been pursing, Zimmerman failed to identify himself as a neighborhood watch volunteer."

None of that constitutes legal grounds for assaulting someone, let along for knocking them down, climbing on top, and continuing to beat on them.

Of course GZ could be lying. But if true his account exonerates him.

[Severn]

>"Did Martin think Zimmerman was a common mugger trying to hold him up?"

Possible, but unlikely. Martin had a cell phone. If he had believed that Zimmerman was a mugger/stalker/some sort of bad guy, he could could have dialed 911.

[icr]

>"Possible, but unlikely. Martin had a cell phone. If he had believed that Zimmerman was a mugger/stalker/some sort of bad guy, he could could have dialed 911."

Plus M. ran out of Z's sight and then returned to confront Z. If you're fearful of someone why would you escape and then return to confront him?

[g]

How about just a case of too much suspicion on both sides and too much testosterone and pride?

If indeed Zimmerman was walking away from Trayvon toward his vehicle, his back to Trayvon, the law in most states would say a reasonable response (from Trayvon) would have been to conclude that Z. posed no immediate threat. If the kid were still scared at that point, he could have taken off. This would presume that the guy walking away didn't have him tied and bound or something.

[mikeca]

Florida Statues 776.012 "Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force."

So you are walking through some strange neighborhood at night. Someone starts trying to follow you. You try to get away, but the person keeps trying to find you. You walk up to the person and ask him why he is following you. He gives you a totally non-responsive answer that gives no reason for his actions. Then you notice that he has a gun in his waist band. He starts to reach down. You think he is reaching for his gun.

Wouldn't a reasonable person assume that this stranger was about to draw his gun to rob him or worse? Doesn't this Florida statue authorize the use of non-deadly force, like punching him in nose, under those circumstances?

The point is that running around on the street at night chasing people with a gun in your waist band is extreme provocative. Anyone with any kind of training would know that. When confronted with the individual you had been chasing any trained person would know the first thing you do is identify yourself and explain why you are following them, not give evasive answers.

[g]

"So you are walking through some strange neighborhood at night. Someone starts trying to follow you. You try to get away, but the person keeps trying to find you."
________
Seems logical until you see the pics of the complex from an aerial view: it should be easy to disappear from view and lose the guy, esp. at night, but giving the benefit of doubt to the kid, yes, this would scare anyone.

*************************************************

"You walk up to the person and ask him why he is following you. He gives you a totally non-responsive answer that gives no reason for his actions. Then you notice that he has a gun in his waist band. He starts to reach down. You think he is reaching for his gun."
____________
Doesn't make sense because if you are scared, then you'd not "walk up to the person." If you are not scared and are confrontational, you would.

******************************************

"Wouldn't a reasonable person assume that this stranger was about to draw his gun to rob him or worse? Doesn't this Florida statue authorize the use of non-deadly force, like punching him in nose, under those circumstances?"

Yes, if you see the person who has been following reach for something, it's reasonable to think he might be reaching for a weapon. However, this presumes you were not afraid enough of him to begin with since you approached him.
Yes, though, a guy reaching for something would be reason to hit him.

_____

Bottom line and since there are no witnesses, we'll likely never know as the physical evidence is unlikely to tell us: if GZ was walking away from the kid after the confrontation, walking to his vehicle, then there was no reason for the kid to continue the confrontation.

If GZ is lying about walking back to his SUV, if the kid saw the weapon in GZ's belt while they were face-to-face, or if GZ was brandishing it, then it's totally logical for the kid to have concluded his life was in danger and he would have hit him, gotten him down, and whomped on him.

If GZ was brandishing the weapon, that's a different situation than the kid seeing the weapon in the holster on GZ's belt from a criminal charge point of view, I do believe.

What if something even crazier happened, given GZ's over-reactions? What if he pulled his gun on the kid, told him, "The police are on their way. Don't move; I am holding you until they come"? Presumably, they were coming after GZ's call telling which entrance he was near.

[Doug1]

mikeca--

The father says the gun didn't become visible until George Zimmerman was struggling with Trayvon on top of him to get himself completely on the grass, notably his head so Trayvon couldn't keep bashing it against the sidewalk.

Further as soon as Trayvon saw the gun he told George he was gonna die now. That's when Zimmerman grabbed the gun and shot Trayvon.

Completely justified self defense.

[mikeca]

"The father says the gun didn't become visible until George Zimmerman was struggling with Trayvon on top of him to get himself completely on the grass, notably his head so Trayvon couldn't keep bashing it against the sidewalk."

That is what GZ says. Trayvon didn't try to take the gun away from GZ until after they had been struggling for a while, but that does not mean Trayvon had not seen the gun earlier.

According to some news reports, which of course may not be accurate, GZ was carrying the gun in a holster placed on his waistband. Even if this holster was concealed inside the waistband (GZ had a concealed weapons permit), it is possible that Trayvon could have seen this earlier.

Since Trayvon is dead, we will never know his side of the story.

The point remains, GZ was acting in a suspicious manner by pursuing a stranger at night. When confronted by the stranger and asked what he was doing, he gave a non-responsive answer that did not explain his actions or defuse any justifiable suspicious about his actions.

[GZ was NOT pursuing Travyon. Pursuing implies a foot chase. GZ ovbserved Trayvon from his car. Trayvon ran away. GZ got out of his car to look around, but never actually spotted Trayvon and ran after him. It was Trayvon who returned to accost GZ. And there's no reason a guy driving around in his own complex should look suspicious. The ghetto-looking kid in a high-prole subdivision is the person who looks suspicious.]

[mikeca]

[GZ was NOT pursuing Travyon. Pursuing implies a foot chase. GZ ovbserved Trayvon from his car. Trayvon ran away. GZ got out of his car to look around, but never actually spotted Trayvon and ran after him. ...]

GZ was apparently initially following Travyon in his SUV. At some point he lost track of Travyon and got out of the vehicle to search for him. The police dispatcher on GZ's 911 call asked GZ if he was following Travyon and GZ affirmed that he was. The police dispatcher told him that was not necessary and the police would handle it. GZ said OK.

According to Travyon's girlfriend, who Travyon was talking to on his cell phone, Travyon saw a strange man trying to follow him. He first tried to run away and hide, but the stranger continued to search for him on foot.

GZ was definitely following Travyon. He said so on the 911 call. When Travyon tried to run and hide, GZ got out to search for him on foot. In my book that means GZ was pursing Travyon.

[It was Trayvon who returned to accost GZ.]

Travyon ran and hide from GZ, but GZ got out of his car and search for him on foot. At that point Travyon decided this guy was not going to give up easily and to confront him and ask him what he was doing.

[And there's no reason a guy driving around in his own complex should look suspicious. The ghetto-looking kid in a high-prole subdivision is the person who looks suspicious.]

And exactly how is Travyon suppose to know that GZ lived in that subdivision?

The point is GZ's actions were suspicious to any stranger that did not know he was a neighborhood watch volunteer. GZ had never seen Travyon before and therefore should have known his action would look suspicious to him.

It makes no difference what Travyon looked like or what you think he looked like. GZ was acting in a suspicious manner.

[Conquistador]

mikeca

Are you female by any chance? You seem to be projecting your rape fears onto Travyon....

[mikeca]

"Are you female by any chance? You seem to be projecting your rape fears onto Travyon...."

Nope.