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March 20, 2012

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How typical of elite whites to try to railroad an innocent hispanic man!

It was not a case of "NAM kills NAM". Dude was a "neighborhood watch captain". That is W-H-I-T-E if every something was!

These cases never end well for the NAMs. They make the "victim" out to be a saint (I'm surprised that he's not an honor roll student rather than being suspended), but invariably they're shown to be just another thug.

This black probably acted in the way you said not to in your arrest proof discussion. Basically he couldn't submit to another man's authority even momentarily which is why these incidents happen so often with blacks.

NAM shall not kill NAM.

Admittedly, I haven't followed this case, but wasn't Zimmerman a full grown man who had 100 pounds on the deceased? Was he justified in believing his life was in imminent danger (I believe Florida is a "Stand Your Ground" state)?

[HS: 100 pounds of fat, and a black kid who's a junior in high school and on the football team can probably beat up most fat white/Hispanic men.]

"This incident also demonstrates why it's a bad idea to carry a gun around for "self-defense." There's too high of a risk of using it in a manner that gets you convicted of murder. "

Nah, that's not true. Switzerland and Finland are full of guns but have low murder rates.

I've been packing my pistol with my concealed license for years and I've never felt compelled to pull it on anyone since I haven't anointed myself as the neighborhood crime fighter and arbiter of justice and since I'm not ready to shoot someone over a minor perceived slight like a middle finger in traffic.

I think the 911 tape with Zimmerman was pretty damning. The 911 operator told him to stand down and to desist from pursuing the "suspect". The rules of his own neighborhood watch forbade Zimmerman from carrying a gun or pursuing any suspicious persons.

[HS: It takes two idiots to start a fight. When one of the idiots has a gun, it's a recipe for someone getting shot.]

You're against carrying a gun for self-defense as a personal decision. Out of interest, are you against it being legal to carry one?

"Hispanic" is not a race. Why are you deliberately conflating these things?

If we accept that "white" colloquially means "European-derived," It's quite possible he has LESS non-European DNA than yourself, given your partially Semitic background. That doesn't disqualify you from being identified as "white," so why should the fact that he might speak Spanish and have a minority portion of Amerindian DNA disqualify him (particularly if theories of pre-Columbian European habitation of the New World hold true)?

Additionally, there are many purely Germanic-derived whites living in South America who can rightly be labeled "Hispanic," such as Gisele Bundchen.

And your folk-logic "it takes two idiots to start a fight" is truly stupid. Most of the time there is simply one aggressor. If you get shot and killed on the streets of New York, would you have us to assume that you idiotically got yourself in a fight and therefor are culpable in your own killing? Yeah, I didn't think so.

The stand your ground law in Florida can be pretty tough to deal with, speaking as a criminal prosecutor in the central Florida area. There will be a pretrial hearing in which both sides present evidence. If the judge is convinced by the greater weight of evidence, then it will basically take the case out of a jury's hands. If the state goes forward, a judgement of acquittal will be entered after the state presents it's case.

Who the judge is will be very important. Since on appeal, the courts will give great weight to the trial court's ruling, which ever way the judge rules on the stand your ground motion will likely stand.

Being that state circuit court judges are elected officials, my bet is:

1. State attorney files manslaughter charges.
2. At a SYG hearing, the judge rules that the shooter was not legally standing his ground.
3. Jury of his peers will find him not guilty because of they will still be instructed on the favorable self defense instructions.

@HS: "I think that Zimmerman believed he was shooting a bad guy, but evidence points to a jury not seeing it that way."

It appears that Zimmerman provoked a confrontation. I think once you start shit, you should lose the benefit of the doubt. If you shoot an unarmed man, YOU should have to PROVE that your life was ACTUALLY in danger and that deadly force was the ONLY option open to you. "I was really scared for my life" shouldn't be an excuse, no matter how sincerely you believe it. If that standard bothers you, don't go around picking fights.

@HS: "It takes two idiots to start a fight."

It takes people two to HAVE a fight, but one idiot can start it all by themselves. There's no moral equivalency between being assaulted and defending yourself from an assault.

@Conquistador: "Basically he couldn't submit to another man's authority"

I don't disagree with the broader point, but it doesn't quite fit the facts of this case. Zimmerman had NO AUTHORITY. He was just a whack job with a gun and a God complex.

"It takes two idiots to start a fight." What makes you think so?

I think Zimmerman is half Cuban. Cubans are considered white because they usually vote Republican.

It's effectively illegal to use firearms for self-defense in Finland and Sweden. If you shoot a thug who broke into your home and had a gun aimed at your head, you still go to prison just as if you murdered an innocent person.

It is true that a very high percentage of homes in Sweden, Finland and Switzerland have guns,. But it is relatively hard for the underclass to obtain guns, because you need a license for hunting or sport shooting or as part of the militia, all which require some planning and effort. Since the guys with guns are responsible middle class and careful with their weapons, the black market is thin. I once heard a Moroccan drug-dealer from Scandinavia complaining that he couldn’t easily obtain a gun.

This might explain why guns don't increase the murder rate in those countries, which they probably do in America (though they might lower other types of crime). Of course a minor increase in murders is a small price to pay for freedom and the enjoyment men get from guns.

This is a local news story for me and I've tried to follow it as best I can, but the moment it become political the Sanford Police Dept tossed the decision to arrest Zimmerman to the State Attorney's Office.

Now, several protests and street vigils later they are going to go to a grand jury to make the decision. Everyone's afraid of the lynch mob, and there is a mob here demanding mob justice.

"Additionally, there are many purely Germanic-derived whites living in South America who can rightly be labeled "Hispanic," such as Gisele Bundchen."

This guy aint one of those cases. Just take a look at the guy. He'd qualify for all government handouts and nobody would raise an eyebrow.

"Just take a look at the guy. He'd qualify for all government handouts and nobody would raise an eyebrow."

Because as people who use "white" colloquially as Patrick does ignore the fact that many of the populations outside Europe that are genetically closest to European populations are found in the Middle East. This is particularly true of non-Muslim Middle Easterners (Turks, Christian Lebanese, Druze, non-Ashkenazi Jews).

"Also, news reports say that the cop reported that Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head and had grass on his back, so unless Zimmerman bloodied himself to fake the look of a fight, the most likely scenario is that Zimmerman (who appears to be a prolish loser) was overzealous in pursuing this kid, and the kid acted in a typically low-class black manner and attempted to assert his manhood by engaging in a physical altercation; god-forbid he lose face to a fat half-white half-Hispanic guy pretending to be a cop."

The kid was something like 140 pounds while Zimmerman was 240. Obviously Zimmerman had deliberately bloodied himself to make it look like self-defense.

HS,

Notice how the push from this is going to be anti-neighborhood watch and anti-conceal carry but no mention of hispanics.

"The shooter, George Zimmerman, looks Hispanic, but the MSM thinks he’s white"

Zimmerman - isn't that a Jewish name? Since his mother is Hispanic, does that make him Sephardic? Or does his mother need to be Jewish according to the descent laws? This is so confusing!

"On the other hand, if a bunch of Skinheads killed Mr. Zimmerman, then the same MSM would be saying that he was the Hispanic victim of a racist murder."

Of course! Instead of George Zimmerman, the media would refer to him as
Jorge Carpintero!

Wait, HS, didn't you say in a previous post that Florida Hispanics are essentially white? This guy looks like half of the Cuban guys I've seen in Miami. So, if you say that Cubans are white, then this guy is white. End of story.

--This incident also demonstrates why it's a bad idea to carry a gun around for "self-defense." There's too high of a risk of using it in a manner that gets you convicted of murder.--

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6...

--Everyone's afraid of the lynch mob, and there is a mob here demanding mob justice.--

And in Florida, duh bruthas had better watch out if dey gonna hab demselves a mob demandin' justus 'n shit...Nobody I know down there would neglect preparing for that sort of thing.

[HS: If the guy had just listened to the cops and not gotten out of his car and confronted the guy, he wouldn't be in this situation.]

[HS: If the guy had just listened to the cops and not gotten out of his car and confronted the guy, he wouldn't be in this situation.]

Well, he didn't and he solved a problem.

@Wade Nichols

Not every person with a name of German origin is Jewish. Not every Jew has a name of German origin.

The real story here is a class issue, not a race one. The kid who was shot belongs to a group of people who have determined that they will forever form a lumpenproletariat. The shooter is a prole, by the look of things (gun-toting, severely overweight). These two groups will experience increasing animosity as the proles are gradually nickel-and-dimed down to underclass status by the elites, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see more violence of this sort in the future.

"If the guy had just listened to the cops and not gotten out of his car and confronted the guy, he wouldn't be in this situation."


Do you know how long police responses take? In some places unless it's an emergency the cops won't even show up for suspicious person calls. Plus the need for a neighborhood watch tells me crime might have been prevalent in the area. That's a guess on my part but where I live underwent a crime wave as well so I can sympathize with Zimmerman.

I heard him referred to as a "white Hispanic" on NPR. It was odd to add the "white". Most Hispanics in US are 60% white. So why throw in the "white". It was as if it must be the whiteness that made him shoot the black guy.

JHP said...

"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

---

It's better to be carried by 6 than be gang-raped by negros in prison.

@Norman

He doesn't look Half Cuban, not in the least.

"I think that Zimmerman believed he was shooting a bad guy, but evidence points to a jury not seeing it that way."

Zimmerman did shoot a bad guy. Trayvon attacked him from behind as he was walking back to his vehicle. Witnesses say Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman beating him just before the shot. They also said it was Zimmerman who was yelling for help and not Trayvon. Poor, little defenseless tray tray was 6'3.

http://goo.gl/GfuCY

I agree with Josh's prediction of how this plays out. It goes to trial to save political derriere. But ends in acquittal because jurors aren't elected. Trayvon may have been unarmed but it was still self defense.


"The shooter, George Zimmerman, looks Hispanic, but the MSM thinks he’s white "

The MSM doesn't think Zimmerman is white. Anyone can tell he's not exactly your garden variety gringo just by looking at him. It's just that they'd rather he be white for political reasons. But since he's not, they're going to make him an honorary white so they can bash those who aren't as 'progressive' and 'enlightened' as themselves. Not that they particularly care about enlightenment. This is raw, naked politics. There's an election coming up and BO is behind in the polls.

HS,

The FBI has a query page where one can look up crime statistics. 2009 is the last year that crime statistics are listed and the number of white teenagers (12-24 y/o) killed by blacks of any age for 2009 was 309 whereas the number of black teenagers killed by whites of any age was 162. Of course, Hispanics are included in the white category so the number of blacks killed by non-hispanic whites is lower.

If one adjusts for the relative size of the populations of blacks and whites, it is obvious that blacks are much more likely to kill white teenagers than whites killing black teenagers.

http://ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/ezashr/asp/off_display.asp

Also, the number of blacks killing black teenagers was 1702. Yet, on an NPR report, the report was talking about how blacks interacting with whites is very dangerous. http://www.npr.org/2012/03/20/149007488/trayvon-martin-a-tragic-death-and-a-lesson-learned

It should be obvious that the media is not driven by relative risks.

Hispanics and blacks don't get along. What else is new?

Speaking of things Floridian, have you see this funny video from Florida Atlantic University?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkm3BBbuUQ4

"These cases never end well for the NAMs."

On the contrary, they usually end well for the NAMS's. As is now customary, already the Feds are gearing up for a "violation of civil rights" prosecution. After a guilty plea or verdict (as with Rodney King or Oscar Grant), the family will get a big settlement. Half is correct about the likely motive force here. In the last ten years or so, young blacks will violently confront anyone who's merely looking at them. It's the "therapeutic alienation" that John McWhorter wrote about in "Losing the Race." I see this all the time in the Bay Area.

"The kid was something like 140 pounds while Zimmerman was 240."

If this is true, then Zimmerman's life is over. I yield to no one in my belief that blacks are both physically superior to whites and mystically competent at fighting. Nevertheless, with a 100 lb. weight advantage, just a bit of forward momentum knocks this kid off his feet. So I find it hard to believe a kid at such a disadvantage would take the chance without a friend around to help.

[HS: The "kid" was a football player, used to rough physical contact, probably all muscle, while Zimmerman is fat.]

"The FBI has a query page where one can look up crime statistics."

don't get tricked, their definition of "white" includes Hispanics. Pinker uses this "white" homicide rate which includes Hispanics (4.8/100k) to incorrectly claim white American's are much more violent than Europeans. In fact, the non-Hispanic white homicide around the same as Europe at 2.2 murders per 100k.

...but wasn't Zimmerman a full grown man who had 100 pounds on the deceased? Was he justified in believing his life was in imminent danger (I believe Florida is a "Stand Your Ground" state)?

[HS: 100 pounds of fat, and a black kid who's a junior in high school and on the football team can probably beat up most fat white/Hispanic men.]

I also saw several news pieces (one quoting the decedent's father) that Martin was 6 ft 3 in tall.

Hispanic can be of any race, it is not an either white or Hispanic question. The answer is both.
I predict a conviction and life sentence for the suspect. He has no case for self defense.

Trayvon Martin was 6'3" or 6'4" yet weighed only 140 to 150 pounds. Far from being a rippling mass of rock-hard fast twitch muscle, the way the blogosphere fetishizes black men, he was basically a beanpole with an abnormally low amount of muscle. Not to mention 16 years old. I would say that the vast majority of adult men (not to mention a non-insignificant number of adult women) could overpower him with ease.

[HS: Um, what's the source for him being 6'4"?"]

@ Peter

When I was sixteen I used to be in fantastic shape probably the best shape I've ever been in due to athletics. I was also 6'2 and weighed 160. I had a lean but very fit body. I could have easily beat up some out of shape fat guy like Zimmerman.

"Was he justified in believing his life was in imminent danger (I believe Florida is a "Stand Your Ground" state)?"

Every fistfight puts your life in danger, no matter how big and tough you think you are.

[HS: That's why it's a bad idea to carry a gun for self-defense. The black football player probably would have just ran off after beating him up, but now he faces the possibility of life in prison, where the black inmates will do even worse to him.

But it's really hard to think about all that while some guy is kicking your ass.]

"That's why it's a bad idea to carry a gun for self-defense. The black football player probably would have just ran off after beating him up, but now he faces the possibility of life in prison, where the black inmates will do even worse to him."

What did I just say? I repeat,

*** Every fistfight puts your life in danger ***

Do I have to drag up all the stories of black savages beating white people TO DEATH?

There is no guarantee the thug is "just" going to hospitalize you with a beating and then run away. Better to carry a gun and take your chances with the jury than rely on some animal getting his bloodlust under control before he kills you.

Zimmerman was half white. Anyway, we have no knowledge on the officers' ethnicities in this article, yet it's assumed that they're white:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/i-ramarley-graham-mourners-chant-protest-teen-fatal-shooting-death-nypd-article-1.1049629

Not that ethnicity matters because killing innocents is wrong no matter what color they are.

[HS: Zimmerman may have been adopted, and therefore not half-white. He certainly doesn't look half-white half-Cuban. I knew a Cuban guy with a white ex-wife, and his kids looked white to me. It's not even clear to me that he looked non-white.]

"The black football player probably would have just ran off after beating him up, but now he faces the possibility of life in prison, where the black inmates will do even worse to him."

Do you mean a professional football player? If anything he'd be imposing his force and will onto the other inmates, not the other way around. This would be a guy who could hypothetically jump rope many minutes in a row at high intensity, lift hundreds of pounds, and run long distances to maintain his athletic ability.

"Hispanics and blacks don't get along. What else is new?"

Actually, I hear they get along quite well. Only in certain instances such as gangs fighting over territory do they not.

"It's effectively illegal to use firearms for self-defense in Finland and Sweden. If you shoot a thug who broke into your home and had a gun aimed at your head, you still go to prison just as if you murdered an innocent person. "

And that is why those countries are irrational. The "right" to life is taken far too seriously and interpreted far too broadly by some, which manifests into such ludicrously anti-justice laws such as these. Serial killers and their lawyers thinking that serial killers and burglars have a credible right to life is the height of arrogance. If someone is an immediate threat to one's life and property then of course they should take appropriate measures for self-defense.

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