The real Trayvon Martin story comes out

Reported a short while ago in the Orlando Sentinel:

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened, but that night, Feb. 26, and in later meetings he described and re-enacted for police what he says happened.

In his version of events, he had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.

* * *

Zimmerman also claims that Martin tried to take his gun.

And there’s an account from the 13-year-old witness:

In addition, an eyewitness, 13-year-old Austin Brown, told police he saw a man fitting Zimmerman's description lying on the grass moaning and crying for help just seconds before he heard the gunshot that killed Martin.

The latter paragraph confirms my hunch that Zimmerman was on the ground and not in a position to run away, thus the “stand your ground” law is irrelevant, Zimmerman’s actions would be self defense in any jurisdiction.

Comments

[Anon E. Mouse]

It looks like its all going to come down to how the fight started which this doesnt really say anything new about. It also doesnt mention his girlfriend who is the main witness saying that Zimmerman started the fight.

[AllanF]

Shocked... but not surprised.

So, who's more culpable for the mob? The media with all their grossly biased reporting of only half the story, or the politicians that should have known better and waived everyone off?

While the media may not have had immediate access to Zimmerman or the reasons for Trayvon's suspension or the police report or the toxicology report, politicians certainly could have gotten access to it, or called people that could. A couple discretely placed phone calls by the Florida AG to a couple high-level news organizations could have nipped this in the bud.

Did politicians see a chance to impugn "Stand Your Ground" legislation, and decide to let it run, facts be damned? Did they not even give it that much thought, just wanting to make sure they were on the right side of the mob?

[Anon E. Mouse]

Somewhere I saw someone say that the gun had a full magazine and an empty chamber, which meant only one bullet was fired but also that the chamber was prevented from reloading most likely because someone (Martin) had his hand on the gun. Thats something I think theyd also be able to prove with other forensic evidence.

[scott]

Once he got on top of him and started pounding Zimmerman, it's self defense. Zimmerman might have been a jerk for following him but you don't get to punch people in the face, then get on top of them and keep hitting them, and expect to be the victim. If he sucker punched a creepy guy following him, that would be one thing. But to get on top and keep hitting?

[Peter]

IF this story is true, middle-class men should be motivated to go out and strengthen their bodies and even acquire some fighting skills.

[HS: It would be easier to just not get involved.]

[Eric Cartman]

Oh shit, here we go! It's on!
Race War! Race War! Race War! Race wars on everybody! It's going down!

[Peter]

"IF this story is true, middle-class men should be motivated to go out and strengthen their bodies and even acquire some fighting skills.

[HS: It would be easier to just not get involved.]"

Well of course, but sometimes that's not a choice.

What I am going to say is absolute heresy in the blogosphere, but it is my very carefully reasoned opinion that black men are ***NOT*** naturally more muscular/higher testosterone/stronger/better street fighters/whatever than men of other races. If the current story is true, George Zimmerman had no excuse for being physically abused by a skinny teenager. And had he been stronger or fitter, none of this would have happened.

Again, assuming everything we've heard is true, this should be a wakeup call to middle class men.

[Wade Nichols]

"IF this story is true, middle-class men should be motivated to go out and strengthen their bodies and even acquire some fighting skills."

How much time do YOU spend in the gym, considering all the comments you post on several blogs every day?

[HS: He sounds like a pretty strong guy based on his blog posts. It's not unheard of. I know a guy who's extremely strong and works out a lot, but he's also into nerdy pursuits. (However, he also gets lots of sex.)]

[Mark]

"IF this story is true, middle-class men should be motivated to go out and strengthen their bodies and even acquire some fighting skills."

The punch that knocks you out or to the ground is usually the one that you don't expect or see coming, not necessarily the hardest punch. It would be especially hard to see from a black figure in the dark.

[jeanne]

Not to state the obvious, but the trend among youts is to kick whitey's head in. This was the goal of #knockoutking last summer. It's not merely a matter of getting punched in the nose.

Once they get him down, they kick or stomp on the skull. This could cause brain damage if not death.

So it's worth it to not let it get that far, even if shooting seems like overreaction to the Facebook lynch mobs.

[rightwingnut]

And the 'grieving' mother seeks trademarks on Trayvon Martin for use on "Digital materials, namely, CDs and DVDs featuring Trayvon Martin," and other products.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/trayvon-martin-trademarks-769123

For a moment I was beginning to think everything in America was about race, but now that the 'grieving' mother has filed for trademark, all is well: It's about making a buck (and the lawyers).

[AllanF]

"[HS: It would be easier to just not get involved.]"

And let the thugs win.

And don't try to save your neighborhood, just move to a better one. I'm sure that suits the bankers, real estate developers, and property tax man just fine. But what's it do for the middle class? Or are they supposed to man up?

[HS: They should get behind the HBD movement.]

[Peter]

"The punch that knocks you out or to the ground is usually the one that you don't expect or see coming, not necessarily the hardest punch. It would be especially hard to see from a black figure in the dark."

If you're confronting an unknown person under possibly suspicious circumstances, for example a hoodie-wearing teen that's wandering around your gated community at night, you don't let him get within punching range.

[Turambar]

Sweet- I wonder if this will precipitate a split between blacks and hispanics. Black have already lost to Teh Gheys, and maybe their hand is being overplayed here.

The election of Barack Obama was really an anomaly on this glide path to being superseded as Number One minority.

[J1]

"Did politicians see a chance to impugn "Stand Your Ground" legislation, and decide to let it run, facts be damned?"

Yes. That's exactly what they did.

[myron cohen]

All this focus on the physical mechanics of the confrontation obscures the larger, more important point about the current reality of relations between U.S. blacks and everyone else. The #1 operating law of black life these days is: "nobody can talk to me." This applies to women as well as men, and to employed, middle-class blacks as well as to dropouts and street types. It has nothing to do with traditional slurs, or with tone of voice or "rudeness." Blacks demand to be exempt from questioning by non-blacks, period. If you haven't realized this yet, it's because you're "successful," and have a routine consisting mostly of going from safe suburb to glass tower and back, and doing your shopping by catalogue or over the web. Hell, I wouldn't know this stuff myself if I hadn't fallen off the success track long ago.

[MightyMartian]

To Rightwingnut,

You know the family has a website where one can make donations, all supposedly in the name of justice. Now she's trademarking her dead son's likeness. The picture is becoming crystal clear now. There's financial incentive to keep this whole notion of "Zimmerman killing poor Trayvon because he was black". I knew when I saw his parents any given day making the media rounds singing the same sad diddy about their poor victimized son that everyone would be in for a rude awakening. With the donors already, this Trayvon Martin fund has probably netted thousands upon thousands. Where is this money really going? Also, I didn't know until I came in here that this kid was suspended for bringing weed to school????? The tide is finally turning, thank God!

[eLa]

I am under the impression that most hispanics can't stand blacks. Of course they unite to shake down whitey but that's about it.
Of course Trayvons actions are typical, this is what blacks do, pound peoples head into the cement, kick them when they're down, set them on fire. A white man will usually stop when his pponent is on the ground, maybe slowly but he'll stop. Blacks are savages and these new revelations will not make a bit of difference with the educated ones. Wake up white people.

[Severn]

>"What I am going to say is absolute heresy in the blogosphere, but it is my very carefully reasoned opinion that black men are ***NOT*** naturally more muscular/higher testosterone/stronger/better street fighters/whatever than men of other races."

I think it's safe to say that there are certain parts of the blogosphere where the notion that black men are to white men as the Predator was to Arnie is taken as unquestioned fact. But those parts are few and small, in my opinion. I'd guess that there may be no more than 4-6 people pushing this line.

[Severn]

>"his girlfriend who is the main witness saying that Zimmerman started the fight."

Martins girlfriend was not a witness and has no idea who started the fight. As his girlfriend she would not be a reliable witness in any case.

[whiskey]

My guess is that a lot folks will be "stuck" -- not getting involved is not an option any more as cutbacks on welfare/etc cause raiding parties into the suburbs. Which underwater homeowners, with limited credit (not the gold-plated one needed for a new mortgage these days) and limited cash can't move out.

White flight bought social peace, but the peace bought by simply fleeing is come to an end. Flight is now impossible for most, who are stuck in place.

[CH]

"I think it's safe to say that there are certain parts of the blogosphere where the notion that black men are to white men as the Predator was to Arnie is taken as unquestioned fact. But those parts are few and small, in my opinion. I'd guess that there may be no more than 4-6 people pushing this line."

your strawkraken to the contrary, blacks really do have differences in physiology from whites. for example, black have more sensitive androgen receptors, which likely influences their muscularity and aggression levels.

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/55/9/1937.abstract?ijkey=bd15c629504d26ddeb8eb07e0a9cbc0a522df8ee&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

"The androgen receptor genotype was determined in the white blood cell DNA of 45 African-American, 39 non-Hispanic white, and 39 Asian (Chinese, Japanese) normal subjects and 68 patients with prostate cancer (57 whites), all of whom were residents of Los Angeles County. For each subject, we measured the number of repeats in the polymorphic CAG and GGC microsatellites of exon 1 of the androgen receptor gene. In normal subjects, the distributions of CAG and GGC microsatellites differed significantly among the races (two-sided P = 0.046 and <0.0005, respectively). The prevalence of short CAG alleles (<22 repeats) was highest (75%) in African-American males with the highest risk for prostate cancer, intermediate (62%) in intermediate-risk non-Hispanic whites, and lowest (49%) in Asians at very low risk for prostate cancer."

anyone who's seen a mixed race bball pickup game, or who has played backyard football with blacks, can attest to their greater muscle tone (particularly in the abs and delts) and their more explosive power. they can turn on a dime and accelerate like no white i've ever played with.

this is not to say that blacks are the strongest race (that honor, if strongman competitions are an indication, goes to nordics), only that they are more naturally ripped (at younger ages, before the american diet packs on the pounds) and are faster off the starting line.

[Severn]

>"your strawkraken to the contrary, blacks really do have differences in physiology from whites."

The two propositions are not mutually exclusive. It is possible for blacks (and Asians) to have physical differences from whites, and also for blacks and whites to have essentially equal strength and muscle mass and body fat percentage. For example, blacks tend to have more fast-twitch muscle then whites, who have more slow-twitch muscle than blacks. Being "ripped" has to do with percentage of body fat - if you have very little fat you will look "ripped". But black men do not have less body fat than white men.

>"anyone who's seen a mixed race bball pickup game, or who has played backyard football with blacks, can attest to their greater muscle tone"

I served in the Army with blacks, was friends with many of them, got into fistfights with many others, and I deny your claims of their greater muscle tone.

>"they are more naturally ripped (at younger ages, before the american diet packs on the pounds)"

What do you think they eat before they start eating the American diet?

I posted pics of some black guys at that other site. Were they "ripped" in your opinion? And they were African black guys - they sure were not eating the American diet.

[Anon E. Mouse]

Severn: "Martins girlfriend was not a witness and has no idea who started the fight. As his girlfriend she would not be a reliable witness in any case."

The girlfriend was on the phone with Martin when the altercation began. I dont how reliable she is as a person but I would imagine her being Martin's girlfriend creates less of an incentive lie than Zimmerman wanting to avoid jail time/lynch mobs.

[Severn]

>"The prevalence of short CAG alleles (<22 repeats) was highest (75%) in African-American males with the highest risk for prostate cancer, intermediate (62%) in intermediate-risk non-Hispanic whites, and lowest (49%) in Asians at very low risk for prostate cancer."

Correlation is not the same thing as causation. Black men have higher levels of estradiol, a female hormone. Perhaps that's what causes their higher rate of prostate cancer? Or perhaps it is due to any one of the scores of other differences between the races, or some combination of different factors.

[Crop]

Martin was just a 160 lb kid defending himself against a 240 lb monster. He had to beat Zimmerman so badly he couldn't get up, because if man as big as Zimmerman got up after being punched, Martin would be toast. Pure self-defense on martin's part.

[Severn]

>"The girlfriend was on the phone with Martin when the altercation began."

No, I'm pretty sure she was not. She was on the phone with Martin shortly before the altercation began. She did not hear the two exchange words, let along blows. She is no position to describe the crucial seconds when the first blow was struck.

[JP]

"I would imagine her being Martin's girlfriend creates less of an incentive lie than Zimmerman wanting to avoid jail time/lynch mobs."

Yeah, she wouldn't like to become famous, or to advance the cause of her race, or out of sheer spite. Anything like that is unthinkable!

"black men are ***NOT*** naturally more muscular/higher testosterone/stronger/better street fighters/whatever than men of other races."

It ain't the size of the dog in the fight. It's the size of the fight in the dog. Blacks believe they must not ever, under any circumstances, submit to white authority. Whites are conditioned (race-whipped) not to confront blacks because that would commit the unforgivable sin of being raciss'. The two enter the contest unequally matched psychologically from the get-go.

[Crop]

"What I am going to say is absolute heresy in the blogosphere, but it is my very carefully reasoned opinion that black men are ***NOT*** naturally more muscular/higher testosterone/stronger/better street fighters/whatever than men of other races. If the current story is true, George Zimmerman had no excuse for being physically abused by a skinny teenager. And had he been stronger or fitter, none of this would have happened."

So many mistakes so little time.

First of all blacks are physically superior and higher testosterone. See the brilliant scholarship of J. phillipe Rushton (the greatest anthropologist of all time in my opinion).

HOWEVER, a 240 lb hulking muscle man like Zimmerman is far stronger than skinny little black near-child, so absolutely pathetic and humiliated that Zimmerman was so brutally beaten. He was a big bully who bit off more than he could chew and Martin was a million percent justified in defending himself and the only way Zimmerman could save face was through cold blooded murder with a gun.

Zimmerman getting stronger and fitter would not have helped any. He was already twice as strong as the kid, but the kid had more reach, speed, reaction time, and intellect.

[CH]

"What do you think they eat before they start eating the American diet?"

youthful metabolism in both blacks and whites defers weight gain from a carb-heavy diet. so you can get a pretty good idea of racial differences in muscular tone by looking at teenagers playing a game of pickup shirtless.

"I posted pics of some black guys at that other site. Were they "ripped" in your opinion?"

selectiveness bias is no argument. africa is the most genetically diverse place on the planet. i'm sure you'd have no trouble finding a pic or two of some fatty fat tribe.

[destructure]

Regarding the empty chamber but full magazine. That could simply be a failure to feed. A lot of those little guns won't cycle properly with light loads.

[Crop]

"this is not to say that blacks are the strongest race (that honor, if strongman competitions are an indication, goes to nordics), only that they are more naturally ripped (at younger ages, before the american diet packs on the pounds) and are faster off the starting line."

Whites dominate strongman competitions because they don't have the speed or coordination to do anything more physically complex than lift weights. People with real athletic talent pursue more prestigious and lucrative sports than lifting stuff.

I work in an occupation where there are virtually no blacks, but the only black I've seen was also the most muscular guy I've ever worked with, with massive arms and colossal pecks. And he was pure black, no detectable white ancestry. And my only black neighbor (also full-blooded) is also the most muscular guy on the street, always jogging with no shirt.

Now there are a lot of scrawny blacks too (east African Obama types); but west Africans have very thick bones and ample testosterone, giving rise to great muscle mass

[not too late]

What is with the white to black comparisons of strength when it should be mestizo to black comparison.

[Peter]

"Whites dominate strongman competitions because they don't have the speed or coordination to do anything more physically complex than lift weights. People with real athletic talent pursue more prestigious and lucrative sports than lifting stuff."

I don't even know how to respond to such idiocy.

[Tanizaki]

I work in Orlando, live in Osceola, so this story is of course all over the place.

However, I got a little inside scoop today. I stopped by my parents' house, and my dad's secretary' husband works at the same company as Zimmerman. He reports that the day after the shooting, Zimmerman came into work with a huge gash running up and down the back of his head. "He looked like he was dragged behind a truck" was the quote from Dad's secretary.

[Conquistador]

Based on what I've observed I think blacks have higher testosterone levels but only when they are young. Maybe they evolved for a shorter and much more violent life span? Blacks tend to clam down a lot as they age. This is why you never hear about the crisis of middle age and elderly black men in prison.

[Severn]

>"you can get a pretty good idea of racial differences in muscular tone by looking at teenagers playing a game of pickup shirtless"

This one single anecdotal datapoint from your youth seems to be the sum total of your argument. If you tell me you were awed by the musculature of the (six? seven? ten?) black teens you played with, I'll believe you. But that fact is much less authoritative than you seem to think it is.

>"selectiveness bias is no argument. africa is the most genetically diverse place on the planet. i'm sure you'd have no trouble finding a pic or two of some fatty fat tribe."

Eh, you didn't even look at the pictures.

I googled "photos African tribesmen" and posted representative pictures. Go ahead and do the same search if you don't believe me. You'll find that pictures of Africans in Africa with tremendous muscles are very few and far between. I guess steroids have not made it to the Dark Continent yet.

[Peter A]

"Blacks tend to calm down a lot as they age"

Interesting point, Conquistador. Maybe that's why the stereotypical image of the benevolent old black uncle type has such wide currency in our culture, maybe it's based on fact. It may be true that as blacks age they become considerably less mean (whereas whites, for whatever reason, seem to become meaner as they age, even if less agressive).

[Te]

"I googled "photos African tribesmen" and posted representative pictures. Go ahead and do the same search if you don't believe me. You'll find that pictures of Africans in Africa with tremendous muscles are very few and far between. I guess steroids have not made it to the Dark Continent yet."

Africans are several malnourished Einstein. Why do you think the average height and IQ is so much lower than dark sinned African Americans.

[Severn]

>"Africans are several malnourished Einstein."

Look at some of the pictures in question, Einstein. They are not of severely malnourished people.

[Crop]

"Look at some of the pictures in question, Einstein. They are not of severely malnourished people."

You don't understand malnutrition. you think you have to look anorexic to qualify.
Did you know that Americans in the 1980s were malnourished by today's standards? That's why average height of even white elites increased couple centimeters since then, though this has largely been negated by immigration.

Trust me. EVERYONE born in Africa is malnourished. No matter how big or athletic they look, they would have been even better if born in the west.

[Charly smarjesse]

We as Americans parents neighbors teachers etc have been too tolerant concerning the culture of thug life gangsters. I wonder if trayvons parents feel any responsibility for accepting this behavior (ie) his tweets concerning women's vaginas and their elasticity and speaking the language of street criminals and drug dealers.the images of this young man we are led to believe are current.... Are not. I'm not saying that the consequences of his behavior justified the outcome I'm saying if you act like a gangsta you may be viewed by the public as a threat and may lose your ability to explain your faking it in time . Be careful america is tired .

[fred]

nolimitsnigga is Trevon's chosen name. We never heard about the witness who saw Zimmerman on the ground...meaning that Trevon returned and attacked him a second time. No truth is coming out.

The media show younger pictures of Trevon so he looks sweet and innocent. The media shows Zimmerman in a scowl. It is OJ in reverse. They thought Zimmerman was white. Zimmerman won't get a fair trial. Even Obama came out to say that if he had a son, it would look like Trevon.

Where was Jesse Jackson and Al Sharfton when the illegal alien shot the black kid in Los Angeles? No, they thought Zimmerman was white. He won't get a fair trial.