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April 14, 2012

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Around me you can find community colleges that are almost all white and even more so if you just want to knock out a couple basic classes before you transfer to a real school. Community college isn't a horrible idea, you just have to pay attention to who is in your class. Of course, it's also a nice way to teach liberal 18 year olds not everyone is exactly the same.

It depends on the community college. I went to a quality community college and then a quality state university. For lower division courses, you are better off in a community college. You don't need to take basic calculus from a Ph.D. I took it from an M.S. who patiently went over the problems with a class of 20 people. I took slightly more advanced courses at the state university tught by space cadet Ph.Ds who may have written great papers but couldn't teach one person calculus, much less 300.

For a lot of people, if you have access to a good comunity college, taking your basic courses there and then transfering might work out the best in terms of cost and quality. But my experience was in an almost all-white area in California 30 years ago, so it may not apply today.

I found a shred of inspiration in this video. Two older men, presumably faculty members, disregard their personal safety and wade right into the middle of the fray even though both appear to be past 60. They could have played it safe and waited for the campus police to arrive, breaking up gang melees surely isn't in their job descriptions, but they chose to intervene. I'm wondering if maybe they were military veterans or retired cops who went into teaching.

Why does YouTube always remove these videos of black misbehavior or hide them behind "mature content" filters.

There weren't many blacks at my community college, so I never saw anything like this. I HAVE seen fights like this from videos recorded at 4 year universities with a majority black student population. Anyway, my community college consisted main of Asians and whites. I got an AA in two years, and then moved on to a university to get my bachelors. No problems. I never saw any fights.

One of the all-time best fights was at the halftime of a football game between two black colleges down south. Shown on, I think, CNN ten years ago or so (before YouTube). The marching band from one college was a little slow getting off the field so the other school's marching band could perform, words were exchanged between bands and it erupted into a total brawl with band members bashing each other with trombones and saxophones, and rolling in the mud trashing their beautiful shiny satin uniforms, a real classic...

"Yet another example of why you don’t want to attend, or teach at, a community “college.”"

1) Community college is a good idea because it saves students tens of thousands of dollars in tuition dollars they would otherwise have to spend at a 4 year college. Even more and more intelligent high school seniors are going to community college first before transferring to a 4 year.

2) The reason intelligent high school students are going to community college is so they can skip useless, liberal arts gened classes that they already learned in high school.

Of course, if students could SKIP the gened courses at 4 year colleges and focus strictly on their majors under a 60 credit curriculum, then they wouldn't bother with community college, students would graduate and enter the workforce two to three years earlier than would under the current ~120 degree system, they would save two to three years worth of college tuition, and tens of thousands of liberal arts professors who teach liberal arts geneds like Sociology 101 would be out of work because the 80% of college students who are there to learn a vocation would skip the liberal arts gened.

So why don't you support a 60 credit degree? It would make the rationale for going to a community college obsolete.

The invention of the hi-def cell phone camera is having an enormous impact on the world.

To make you feel better, I'm sure some of your tax dollars found their way into scholarship programs for these upstanding future leaders.

This is just a particular implementation of the general principle to check the NAM population at ANY school you're thinking about.

Someone should start a blog solely showcasing black people being violent.

[HS: I recommend Lawrence Auster's blog.]

As others point out it's not the institution that's the problem but the demographics. I've taken classes at a CC and the problem is mostly lazy slackers attending not so much anything else. However there was an incident where a Mexican gang banger looking dude got really pissed at his grade and began to get confrontational with the teacher until he stormed out fuming.

Sorry, Sig - based on the coverage it's 100% clear that it's blacks fighting. "St. Louis", "community college", "women fighting", "while holding her young daughter", "pile of people rolled around in the bushes while throwing punches at each other".

Anyone with half a brain does not need a video to picture exactly who is doing it and how. This behavior is absolutely typical.

I've watched this video three times and I still have absolutely no clue as to whom was fighting with whom. And of course there's no way of telling what caused the whole melee.

"Someone should start a blog solely showcasing black people being violent."

Stuff Black People Don't Like is pretty close.

Does it make sense to go to a CC for two years before transferring to the flagship state U? Or will the two years at the CC permanently taint one's respectability?

I don't get why you think you can extrapolate a point about "black people" rather than just community college students. If these were black people having a brawl at UPenn I'd be more open to your point.

The problem is that not only is there virtually no filter -- grades, economics, or criminal background -- for attending community college nowadays, there are actually incentives for the uneducable to attend. Welfare reform has pushed many unemployable parents into CC, and the CCs offer easy financial aid that can assist with living expenses. Community college is a rainbow of dysfunctional, below-average-intelligence people.

Community colleges often serve good purposes. The one near where I live near Dallas has a complete nursing program. And as others mentioned above, you can pick up many transferable credits at community colleges before transferring to a state university. This can save a lot of money, and I think most employers won't hold this against you.

But how these colleges are perhaps more important - or at least they could be - is for 2 year degrees. Manufacturing companies across the US complain constantly that they can't find enough trained employees. The community colleges could do a better job of providing this training. We need more vocational training like they have in Germany.

I don't understand all the commentators defending community colleges. In my state they are a joke. Most people who attend them don't end up at a four year university either.

Best to just try to stay away from large numbers low-IQ proles no matter where they may be. You are more likely to get into physical, mental and legal trouble just being around them. Having that sort of stress weighing down on you will diminish your quality of life a great deal and is not worth saving a few bucks on rent or on a mortgage. While driving down the road, I saw a low-IQ prole guy arguing with a lady (gf?). I decided to just not look anymore, lest I had to intervene at some point and get into physical, mental and/or legal trouble.

I saw this sort of thing quite frequently at my 50% black high school.

In the aftermath there would usually be little tumbleweeds of hair everywhere (from pulled out extensions and damaged weaves).

You're painting in much too broad strokes. The vast majority of community colleges, even those with Blacks, do not have this problem. Every now and then you strike out and have of these situations but it's pretty uncommon.

Another way in which CC might be beneficial is that students waste a lot of college getting drunk and going to sporting events. I can't remember who made this argument (Agnostic?), but some students might be better off living at home for a year or two and attending their local CC because of this. Then they can finish their degree at a 4yr without having wasted so much money and time. Of course, this depends on the quality of CC and 4yr colleges available. However, living at home at age 19 delays one's development in various ways, and people have to eventually learn how to make responsible choices for themselves.

A hypothesis: the heavy alcohol and sports culture at big universities actually strengthens the signal of a high GPA, since conscientiousness has to be extra high to fight the temptations.

Tip for everyone considering going to community college and transferring to a four-year institution:

The primary purpose of community colleges is to "cool-out" the expectations of students who are not financially, mentally, or organizationally prepared for 4-year college. The objective is to redirect students to 2-year programs in a skilled trade. However, most community colleges fail in this role- students in community colleges, on average, will not attain a 2-year degree, let alone a B.A. Certain classes and professors are employed to discourage and confuse students- indeed taking classes at community colleges can be MORE difficult than at other schools, because the quality of instruction is not uniform and grading policy is left to the whims of adjunct faculty who have been rejected from other institutions.
The only worse choice you can make is going to a private for-profit college which will saddle you with debt for life without anything to show for it.

I taught at Community Colleges for a while. I worked during the day at a job that required a statistics background so I started to teach statistics at night at a private college. The pay was OK, the classes were small, and the adult students wanted to learn. But then I decided since I was getting into computers I should teach computer science.

I learned that unlike math where it was easy to get a teaching job, I had to compete for computer jobs. This was a long time ago and I was in the PC revolution early (I had had an Altair) but I still needed to work my way up. I was told I had to teach a beginning course first at a Community College. Then with that on my resume I could get to teach better courses. And I could get to teach at Community Colleges in white areas.

So I began to teach a class at Contra Costa Community College which is near a black neighborhood and has a fairly large black student body.

The class was large - maybe 200 students. I taught in a two floor auditorium. I was expected to flunk out at least half of them. There were no entrance requirements.

The class was three hours as I remember, ending at ten. The first night to my amazement all the women stood up at nine thirty and walked out. They didn't ask permission. Indeed I had no idea what was going on.

There were so many rapes on campus that women always walked together in groups, They had orders from the administration to clear the parking lots by ten when they pulled down the security.

This was thirty years ago.

"And of course there's no way of telling what caused the whole melee."

Hysterical.

much of the race-denialism about the unsocial behavior of black people is here to stay because the long march through the institutions is over. the cultural marxists have won because they recognize that they cannot change minds, but can replace them with a new generation molded in their design (please do not let this launch into a jew-hating tangent here; i know the association with jews and marxism is irresistible for some).

there is some hope, however. the behavior of most blacks is so noxious that the "contact theory" can work for the race realists. i find that as my professional friends go further in their careers and have to deal with urban blacks or AA blacks launched into careers in which they are utterly unprepared, or perhaps black support staff in the billing office for physicians, etc., they start to realize some basic facts about blacks. they are less productive. they have greater cognitive limitations. they are all walking time bombs of racial lawsuits (there was a scam on wall street some years back where some lawyer targeted black employees of WS firms to launch these lawsuits for the quick payout -- we are not talking front office positions, of course -- we are talking about dead end back positions).

the handful of good, well-socialized and decent blacks i know well in my life cannot possibly justify the statistically robust risk of getting my business dragged under by taking on black labor. the same applies to non-white hispanics too, but that's for another day.

This is hardly a reason not to go to community college.

It may be a reason not to go to that particular community college, but most community college students do not behave like that.

"A hypothesis: the heavy alcohol and sports culture at big universities actually strengthens the signal of a high GPA,"

GPA has a moderate to weak correlation with job performance. Most studies show the correlation between job performance and GPA is only 0.33, not a whole lot better than hiring by pulling names out of a hat.

Btw, the correlation between job performance and IQ is 0.54.

Conscientiousness (i.e. being a workaholic) correlates better with income than IQ does.

In 1997 I was waiting to play in a largely black basketball game on the Berkeley campus. Suddenly a 4-on-4 melee broke out on the court. The black guy sitting next to me says, "black people are messed up, man."

My fiancee completed the dental hygiene program at a regional community college and now she makes $60,000 a year in an area where the average household income is well below that. We pay for a smallish apartment in the suburbs, new car, fairly regular travel, dog, numerous hobbies and so forth and still save $550 a week. I make about $33,000 per year.

The hygiene program was super competitive. The acceptance rate for it (and other dental hygienie programs at CC's) is lower than some Ivy League schools, then a quarter of the class fails out by the end of the first semester, with people crumbling under pressure right up to and through their board exams. Some women in her class with master's degrees said that the hygiene program was much more difficult. Now she works banker's hours and has a better standard of living than most of the people with bachelor's degrees we know.

Certainly community college is a waste of time for a lot of people, but some people's time in them is well spent.

By the way there were a ton a black people at this school, but there was never any real trouble with them while my fiancee was there. They'd congregate in a few halls and talk loudly but that's all.

In (most of) the UK and Australia, people do "deep" 3 year degrees in their subject, with no general education requirements. It is also doubtful whether such a high proportion of people as go to "college" in the US could manage this. Fewer people go to university in the UK and even here many of them do trivial courses.

However, to prepare for this people also do deeper study in preparation for their degree in secondary school, or they do the equivalent of junior and senior year of high school in what we call "college" (as opposed to university), which *is* actually fairly like a junior college or community college (some admit all ages; some are just for 16-19 year olds).

So that could be a model to adopt, or at least to be aware of.

Geezzz

If that is the educated segment of the Black Community what does it say about the many who are NOT pursuing a degree nor have a diploma?

Oh well....

"In the aftermath there would usually be little tumbleweeds of hair everywhere (from pulled out extensions and damaged weaves)."

Tumblin' Tumble Weeds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UiSMyyj-Ac

Community college in a mixed race area = distaster.

Community college in a white area = potentially useful.

Basically community colleges are filled with the typical people of your area. In big cities where 40% of the population is upper class and 60% are underclass you'll find that community colleges are zoos. Community colleges are fine in the the vast swaths of America where just about everyone is middle class.

I worked as a programmer at Malcolm X College, a community college in Chicago whose racial makeup you can imagine, when I was a white highschool nerd. Never had a lick of trouble there (can't say the same was true at my integrated high school in the suburbs).

The students were very poorly educated thanks to the Chicago public school system, but they were all there to try to get enough basic skills in order to get a job.

"In (most of) the UK and Australia, people do "deep" 3 year degrees in their subject, with no general education requirements. It is also doubtful whether such a high proportion of people as go to "college" in the US could manage this. Fewer people go to university in the UK and even here many of them do trivial courses.

However, to prepare for this people also do deeper study in preparation for their degree in secondary school, or they do the equivalent of junior and senior year of high school in what we call "college" (as opposed to university), which *is* actually fairly like a junior college or community college (some admit all ages; some are just for 16-19 year olds).

So that could be a model to adopt, or at least to be aware of."

This is exactly the model I'm looking for. If it were up to me, every college department not related to STEM and business would be eliminated because every non-STEM and non-business degree can be substituted with online instruction and reading liberal arts books on iPads (good business schools can't easily be replaced by online instruction because they provide excellent networking and teamwork building opportunities that often carry over well beyond college).

I want American universities to scrap their current curriculum and offer a much more specialized degree program free of gened courses for the following reasons:

1) Eliminating the gened would push the majority of US liberal arts professors into the unemployment lines. Mass layoffs of liberal arts professors would be a great thing because they are, at this point in time, loonier and more out of touch with the real world than the old hard left revolutionaries.

They would be fired because funding for college departments is based off of how much money the department brings into the university's budget. College departments bring in money by either producing high earning almumni, putting students in the seats, or attracting research dollars from either public or private investors.

Since the liberal arts don't bring attract much investment $$ or generating wealthy almumni, they can only be financially supported as long as undergraduates have to spend two to three years wasting their time and money on leftist dominated studies that were already taught in high school such as English 101, philosophy 101, sociology 101, History 101, etc.

If students (80% of whom are studying a vocationally oriented major, even if they don't see anything remotely related to their career interests until their junior year) could skip the gened as the British can, then these American students would abandon the leftist dominated liberal arts gened and leave the seats in Sociology 101 empty, thus leading to even more budget cuts in the humanities depts.

If you go to an American university, you'll notice that even now, with the student population being forced to take classes on subjects already learned in high school, that that the STEM and business schools all have the most modern buildings, while the buildings housing liberal arts classes are often old and out of date because the liberal arts don't have as many university dollars invested back into them.

A 60 credit degree would wipe out the jobs of a clear majority of screwball liberal arts professors.

2) Graduating earlier would save two to three years worth of tuition for American students.

3) A more specialized college degree system would make American students more valuable to employers who would save money training students to learn jobskills that should have been taught but weren't because too much time was spent on topics that were already mastered in high school, at least by the intelligent students.

4) I like the idea of making high school more vocationally focused.

5) I would also support guiding more blue collar white American students into more specialized blue collar training programs. US companies are facing critical shortages of specialized welders, pipe fitters, and other highly skilled mechanics.

These jobs actually pay extremely (often better than some STEM and business fields).

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