Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman update

WHAT MARTIN WAS CARRYING

According to Reuters:

At the time of the shooting, Trayvon Martin was not carrying identification - only $22, a cellphone, and the now familiar bag of candy and can of iced tea. His body, taken to the Volusia County Medical Examiner's office, was tagged as a John Doe.

Other information in that article is that Zimmerman is not a homeowner, but rather he was renting the condo.

ZIMMERMAN SAID “FUCKING COLD”

Wagist says CNN’s audio expert says Zimmerman said “fucking cold” referring to the temperatures that evening. He did not say “fucking coons.”

So I fail to see how this could be framed as a “hate” crime. The only time Zimmerman mentioned race was when the 911 operator asked Zimmerman the race of the suspicious person. Zimmerman was so politically correct that he didn’t even tell the police the guy's race until he was asked about it.

DETAILS AT WAGIST

Dan Linehan at Wagist has the best details yet of the timing and routes taken by Zimmerman and Martin.

The key points of his analysis:

1. Zimmerman and Martin had two confrontations. The first time near the entrance to the community:

Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?’ Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I’m not following you.’ He rolls his car windows up.

2. After this first conversation is when Zimmerman called the police.

3. After Martin ran away, he then received the phone call from DeeDee.

My own psychological analysis is that talking to his girlfriend made him want to prove his manhood by going back and teaching Zimmerman a lesson for following him and not properly respecting him.

4. Martin had plenty of time to reach his father’s girlfriend’s condo if he wanted to. Instead he went back to confront Zimmerman a second time.

The fact that Martin went back to confront Zimmerman when he had no valid reason for doing so (except to teach whitey a lesson for following him and pretending he's not) indicates to me the likelihood that Martin threw the first punch, not Zimmerman.

5. The blog post shows the location of the fight, and that’s the photo at the top of the blog post.

MACRANGER SAYS THAT ZIMMERAN WILL NOT BE CHARGED

MacRanger claims to have some inside knowledge, and he says that:

According to sources with knowledge of the progress of the special prosecutors investigation into the Trayvon Martin shooting, charges are not likely at this time against George Zimmerman.

For the same reason he was not charged in the first place. Three witnesses saw Zimmerman being beaten up. Prosecutors would lose that case in court.

Will there be riots when Florida announces this? Or will they never make an announcement and just let the issue linger out there?

* * *

It has been pointed out that MacRanger supposedly had inside info that Martin didn't have Skittles and iced tea on him, and that is in conflict with other police statements. This creates the impression that MacRanger is not a reliable source of inside info.

Comments

[Anonymous]

What happened to the candy and ice tea during the fight?

[Susan]

So if Zimmerman is not charged or arrested does that mean according to Flordia law Trayvon's parents can't sue? Is that why no one knew about
this case until one month after it happenned? Is this case about justice or money?

[KLO]

McRanger is also the same guy (or gal) who claimed that there was no evidence that Martin had Skittles and iced tea on him at the time of his death. As I pointed out in an earlier thread, Police Chief Bill Lee, who clearly believes the evidence does not support arresting Zimmerman, said that Martin did have Skittles and iced tea at the time of his death. Reuters is apparently confirming this. If MacRanger is such an insider, how could he have possibly gotten this wrong?

Even though I think, based on the evidence presented thus far, that Zimmerman should not be charged, it is strange that Zimmerman called the police after the first confrontation with Martin. Would a guy who is up to no good walk up to your car and ask you why you are following him? I assume the conversation was somewhat hostile, but still. People with a mind to commit a crime do not generally seek out confrontations with strangers. This is a strange case indeed.

[sabril]

"People with a mind to commit a crime do not generally seek out confrontations with strangers."

I disagree. In my experience, young black men are constantly seeking confrontations with strangers. If they sense that you might be "disrespecting" them, then look out.

Let me ask you this: Have you ever noticed that black people -- particularly young black people, and especially young black men have a tendency to walk unnecessarily slowly when they are crossing the street in front of a car?

It seems to me that when they do things like this, they are playing a subconscious dominance game. In fact, I suspect that it's not a coincidence that Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend shortly before he died. Probably his jungle instincts were screaming at him that he could not let another man dominate him in front of his girl.

[GMR]

Do people still really say "coon" as a racist insult? I mean, outside of movies set in the 1960s or something? I don't hang around people that use various racial epithets, so I don't know if this term is current or not. Or are the media still living in the 1960s when it comes to racial conflict?

[HS: Yes, the MSM is stuck in the 1960s.]

[AllanF]

My prediction is Zimmerman doesn't get charged with anything. Florida's TPTB will scape-goat the Stand Your Ground statute and try to redirect the mob's animus towards the statute. State legislators will be told the state will burn if they don't do something about the statute. Any and all street violence in the days after Zimmerman's non-arrest will be used as proof the state will burn. The legislators will fold on the statute like a cheap suit.

No one outside of conservative bloggers will point out that Stand Your Ground didn't even matter in this situation, as it was a classic self-defense case in which Zimmerman would have been justified in shooting in any locale in any state in the union, except for those bastions of good manners and zero crime of NYC and Washington D.C.

[Patrick]

It was really stupid to link to a dubious site like that, HalfSigma. "MacRanger" is also peddling the fake nude photos of Obama's mother. Are you really so desperate to exonerate Zimmerman that you're taking bullshit "insider" claims at face value? Where's your skepticism?

At this point, there's NO WAY Zimmerman won't be charged with *something*. He's admitted to *lying* to Martin twice in the course of perusing him, he ignored the instructions of the dispatcher, and lamented about "assholes always getting away," -- indicating that he wasn't going to allow that to happen. At MINIMUM, these facts indicate that Zimmerman wasn't acting entirely in good faith, didn't exercise restraint, and made a series of choices which precipitated at least a negligent manslaughter on his part.

Even under Florida's permissive statutes, you can't claim self defense if you're in the act of committing a crime. If Zimmerman did try to illegally detain or apprehend Martin to hold for police, with Martin resisting and a fight ensuing, he may not have a legitimate claim to self defense.

His lies to Martin are monumentally important to this case. Had he simply said "I'm part of the neighborhood watch, what are you doing here?" it is likely that Martin would have answered that his father's girlfriend lives there, which could be verified, and would have diffused the situation.

Instead, Zimmerman's actions were entirely incongruent with what he told Martin. That's a situation that will instill panic in anybody dealing with a stranger. Zimmerman told Martin he's not following him, yet he was. Zimmerman told Martin he had "no problem" with him, when he manifestly DID have a problem with him.

You can't blame Martin for being highly wary of Zimmerman's behavior toward him, after it was clear that he was being lied to. It really looks as if Zimmerman was trying to exercise all the powers of a cop without any of the accountability and restraint of one.

[HS: 1. there is good reason to believe that those really are photos of Obama's mother, I've blogged about them before.

2. "Lying" to Martin is not a justification for Martin to start beating up Zimmerman, and "lying" to a criminal suspect is a good idea if you think the truth will cause him to get angry with you and a white lie will diffuse the situation.

3. We've already gone over the fact that Zimmerman did NOT ignore the 911 operator.

4. It's really bullshit that anyone thinks that Martin thinks Zimmerman was dangerous to him. He obviously looked to Martin like someone who lived in the complex who thought that a black gangster-looking guy in a hoodie was suspicious. This no doubt angered Martin that whitey thought he looked suspicious.]

[Forbes]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda...

In this world, dealing with the known facts as they present themselves is the best path forward. An unfortunate tragedy where we all can offer thoughts on how it should've otherwise ended. It didn't, that's why it's a tragedy.

So far, the physical evidence supports Zimmerman's story as told to the police. Everything else is speculative--it's called the narrative bias, an attempt to fill-in the blanks with a storyline that fits your own preconceived notion of how the events played out, in order to rationalize the outcome.

[Anonymous]

If Trayvon felt threatened by Zimmerman, he had ample time and ability to get back to the house he was staying at. He didn't. He doubled back and confronted Zimmerman again.

[Roach]

I think Wagist stuff's pretty good. I think there's a few other possibilities he neglects. One, I don't see how he got Zimmerman to position E. Two, it's possible since all those apartments look the same that Trayvon got lost trying to find where he was going.

FInally, I have no doubt based on all my life experience that Trayvon did not put up with his perceived disrespect at Zimmerman and started swiniging. It's in character for people like him.

[Judge Dredd]

Oh sure! I'm sure all those African Racist Apes are just glued to the TV waiting for more facts while they hunt down Zimmerman! Because we all know how Rational these Urban Apes are don't we?

Try teaching calculus to a chimpanzee instead! These damn Racist Darkies don't care about facts! They are just out for blood now!

Do yourselves a favor if you see diversity coming down the street, Shoot First and ask questions later! The Life you save will be your own!

[Camlost]

"His lies to Martin are monumentally important to this case. Had he simply said "I'm part of the neighborhood watch, what are you doing here?" it is likely that Martin would have answered that his father's girlfriend lives there, which could be verified, and would have diffused the situation. "

Yes, because black people are always sooooo forthright and cooperative with authority figures. (even the ones that get suspended for punching their school bus driver)

[kawokmali]

HS you don't have the same audience than Wagist, so you escaped the stupid biased bitch trashing the comment thread, LOL!

[Conquistador]

"Probably his jungle instincts were screaming at him that he could not let another man dominate him in front of his girl."

This is why women in places like Afghanistan are covered from head to toe and are rarely permitted outside the home. In crapistan much like the ghetto blood feuds over women are common. Since it's men that pay the price in these matters maybe we should be less judgmental towards these customs.

[Bernie]

"Even under Florida's permissive statutes, you can't claim self defense if you're in the act of committing a crime. If Zimmerman did try to illegally detain or apprehend Martin to hold for police, with Martin resisting and a fight ensuing, he may not have a legitimate claim to self defense."

What crime is Zimmerman guilty of?

There is zero indication that Zimmerman tried to apprehend Martin or even laid a finger on him. In fact, he tried to avoid a confrontation by walking away when Trayvon challenged him.

Unless some new evidence comes out - or unless they just want to pacify the blacks - there is simply no crime to charge Zimmerman with.

I saw Martin's lawyer last night and he was still claiming the ABC news tape showed no injuries on Zimmerman and that Martin was attacked by Zimmerman. In other words, there is likely zero evidence to support his cause.

[Steve]

"Have you ever noticed ... tendency to walk unnecessarily slowly when they are crossing the street in front of a car?"

Yes, and I admit your interpretation has occurred to me too.

[Alexander]

Hey! Not all of us walk unnecessarily slow when crossing the street in front of a car! You better believe I'm going to be hauling ass because I'm not trying to be roadkill!! Not all of us are confrontational either. I'm not a fighter in no means or stretch of the imagination. Nor am I following blindly behind most of "my people" who are screaming that GZ is a racist and should be arrested.

As I really look at the facts in this case, TM is not the good kid everyone is making him out to be. I know it's wrong to speak ill of the dead but I think TM was bad news. He was suspended three times in one year. I tend to think if you dig some more, these are probably not his only ones. With each suspension, I notice that when confronted, his excuse was "it wasn't me." When confronted about the women's jewelry and burglary tool, he was said to have said, "It belonged to a friend of his." The same is true with the pipe and pot found on him. Then he was truant and late for classes. Then he hits a bus driver. Also, and I'm surprised no one else has picked up on this, the whole reason Trayvon was staying with the dad at the gated community was because the mom sent him to live with his dad after the unlucky 3rd suspension. What that tells me is that TM's mom had had enough of her wild son and felt she could no longer handle him or his behavior. With all of this that we know of, I'm suppose to believe that this young man was just minding his business when big bad GZ just shoots him for no reason at all. Yeah....right.

[Doug1]

Patrick---

If Zimmerman did try to illegally detain or apprehend Martin to hold for police, with Martin resisting and a fight ensuing, he may not have a legitimate claim to self defense.

There’s absolutely zero evidence that that’s what happened.

It also makes no sense that he would try to do that. Trayvon Martin was 6’2” and 160lbs and an in shape student athlete to George Zimmerman’s 5’9 or 5’8 at 170lbs according to his black friend. What Zimmerman had been trying to do was keep Trayvon in sight until the police arrived so he could tell them where Trayvon was. That was almost the whole content of his 911 call.

Trayvon wasn’t scared of Zimmerman. He felt dissed by him, slugged him and knocked him to the ground with a single punch and was beating him up.

Zimmerman shouldn't be arrested on current evidence.

[Twain]

" It's really bullshit that anyone thinks that Martin thinks Zimmerman was dangerous to him. "

Right, If I am scared of someone following me and think they might harm me, I will leave the area as fast as possible. I won't confront them, especially if I am unarmed.

[icr]

Very bright guy discovers that racial differences are not reducible to IQ:
http://occidentalascent.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/a-gaping-whole-in-the-masters-evolutionary-theory/

[D.H.]

HS, I want to bring this to your readers attention in case someone wants to try it. Mathematica and other computer math packages have discrete Fourier transform functions (DFT). A DFT could be done on a know voice recording of Zimmerman and the portion of the 911 tape where he is yelling for help. There should be certain frequencies that are amplified by the geometry of the airway and sinus passages that would be unique to Zimmerman regardless of whether he is yelling or speaking normally. The DFT of the normal and yelling voice could be compared to see if there are certain frequency peaks that are common to both of them.

I am just putting this out there. I am not going to do it because I can see this degenerating into a several day project.

[Demosthenese]

The perspective offered by this group being uniquely situated at the scene is helpfull. I am not a local or a known quantity here and I respect the existing principals wariness regarding drop-ins.
I have searched many sites looking for information regarding the actual act of firing the weapon. It seems not to be available. Just hoping for some help. It doesn't seem to be something mentioned on any of the media outlets. Exactly how the weapon was introduced and fired looks to be somewhat of a mystery. Maybe the proximity of your group members to the location might shed some light on the subject we don't get in the national media. I have no opinion formed regarding who is at fault considering that I don't have all the facts. Any information or informed speculation would be appreciated. Just an interested bystander.

[Bubba Gump]

What is this site, Klan-Watch Nation...

[Dragon Horse]

Maybe blacks don't need middle class culture, they just need Jewish CULTURE LIKE Drake (half black and Jewish and a famous rapper).

http://vimeo.com/39912287

YOu want to see a half black kids bar mitvah here you go.

[Torn and Frayed]

The reason Trayvon didn't go home was that he was probably lost. All the houses in that complex no doubt looked the same. It was night and in the rain (plus homey had probably smoked a joint) so he was most likely trying to orient himself and figure out which house was his father's.

This doesn't mean Zimmerman is guilty of course but does explain what was going on that night.