Big Problem at CUNY: too many Asians

There’s a NY Times article (from a few days ago) about a big problem at the five “best” CUNY schools. With an accompanying graph. Because they have become more competitive, the percent of black enrollment has declined significantly. Even Hispanic enrollment is down since 2001.

But guess what. The percent of non-Hispanic white enrollment is also down since 2001!

What has happened is that Asian enrollment has skyrocketed, and along with increasing Asian enrollment comes much higher SAT scores of admitted students.

The declining non-Hipsanic white enrollment has created great angst among liberals because the wrong minority is benefiting from it. Asians are the minority that elite liberal whites hate.

Comments

[Peter]

My first thought was that the low tuition of the CUNY colleges makes them just too good of a deal to pass up for Asian students. The low tuition is less of a draw for blacks and Hispanics, because those who can qualify for admission to one of the top 5 CUNY colleges can get ample financial aid offers from more prestigious institutions.

But ... under this line of reasoning, the top CUNY colleges should be seeing increasing white enrollments, as like Asians, they have a harder time getting financial aid. The fact that white enrollments are declining means that there are other factors at play.

[HS: NYC whites are divided among elite whites who wouldn't send their kids to a CUNY, and prole whites who aren't college material at all. Middle class whites have moved to Long Island and New Jersey. Most of the CUNY white enrollment are probably immigrants from the former Soviet Union. Guido whites from Staten Island attend CSI, which is not considered one of the top five CUNYs]

[Alvin Jones]

Half Sigma
you are correct.

Another side effect of the changing demographics at CUNY is a dramatic decline in the crime rate at most CUNY campuses.

Even putting aside race for a minute, young men with high SAT scores just plain commit less crime than young men with lower SAT scores.

But changing demographics are of course the largest part of it. Even in Japan, where the number of NAMs is exceptionally low, NAMs commit a disproportionately large share of the violent crime. If you google it, you will see that the NAMs just murdered a pretty young female Irish Exchange student in Tokyo.

[Eugenick]

I for one welcome our slanty-eyed, yellow overlords! At least they won't take any nonsense from NAMs.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Asians are the minority that elite liberal whites hate."

A wee bit hypocritical of them considering their positions about other minority groups, eh?

More seriously, and as I have told you before, the reason white liberals will normally display overt racist attitudes only against Asians is because Asians are the non-white group SWPLs cannot covertly racially segregate themselves from. Racial segregation is a major reason why SWPLs view NAM criminality with such indifference. SWPLs have segregated themselves so well from NAMs in areas like the Hamptons that black and Hispanic crime is only a minor conern for them.

Sure, an occasional SWPL will be picked off by a black criminal, but, thanks to he miracle of gentrification, zoning laws, overly expensive private schools, and harsher sentencing of criminals, the SWPLs have achieved an overall level of racial segregation that would have impressed Bull Conner. If you look at the demographics of the Hamptons or photos of Obama's campaign headquarters staff, you would think those demographics had been personally designed by a Grand Dragon of the KKKlan.

However, SWPLs can't segregate themselves so easily from Asians. This is due to the fact the income and intelligence based barriers SWPLs covertly erect to keep out all but a few token blacks and Hispanics (such as expensive private schools and zoning laws) can be surmounted by intelligent and high earning Asians.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"The fact that white enrollments are declining means that there are other factors at play."

White college students will not attend a college that has too many Asians in it. This is why the Ivys have covert Asian quotas. They know if they let in too many Asians, desirable white students will apply to more racially homogenous schools.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

Btw, I am going to have to take sides with the SWPLs over Asian immigrants (despite the massive hypocrisy on the part of SWPldom) because Western civilization can only prosper under white people and because Asian immigrants are driving up the cost of living for upper middle and higher class whites.

However, in order to argue in favor of whites only immigration and a non-white *emigration* policy, I need to point something out.

Ethnic Genetic Interests (and any related "Genetic Similarity"/Tribalism arguments) is the scientifically WRONG reason for justifying maintaining white majorities in Western nations.

EGI/Genetic Similarity/Triablism has failed to persuade other white people on immigration policy because they are logically incoherent because they are ANTI-Darwinian, and the arguments in favor of EGI.

Under evolutionary theory, the purpose of Darwinian evolution is to have living organism pass on beneficial COMBINATIONS of CHARACTERISTICS and ABILITIES that let them thrive in their specific environment.

The reason EGI/Tribalism is an incoherent argument for pro-white policies is because EGI/Tribalism defeats the purpose of Darwinian evolution/adaptation. Under EGI, subgroups are supposed to remain similar to their predecessor groups.

EGI cannot be compatible with Darwinism as Darwin himself explained his theory of evolution because EGI defeats the purpose of Darwinism because Darwinism depends on more and more beneficial combinations of abilities. If similarity WERE the purpose of evolution, then evolution wouldn't be evolution. "Evolution" in an EGI biological system would simply be asexual cloning of offspring. If asexual cloning were the point of evolution, then sexual reproduction and unicellular life would never have come into existence.

As far as race is concerned with human beings, the CORRECT reason for race realism is because the various continental scale races have different combinations of MENTAL abilities that make them more suitable for living in certain types of civilizations than in others.

And differing MENTAL abilities is where the race debate actually revolves around because nobody disputes that the externally visible physical differences between races have are biological based.

As concerns immigration policy, the reason race should be a justification for whites only immigration and non-white emigration is because Western civilization is dependent upon white MENTAL abilities/characteristics and combinations of mental abilities/characteristics.

What this implies for immigration and emigration policy is that white people and their descendents will assimilate better into a Western country than non-whites will because their mental abilities mesh with a Western country's culture better than a non-white person's mental abilities will.

Once one accepts white people assimilate better into Western culture then do nonwhites do, it then becomes easy to argue in favor of whites only immigration and non-whites only emigration.

Another way to look at race is this way:

Race = A race is a combination of abilities and characteristics.

Culture = A culture is how the abilities of a population are ORGANIZED.

Because racial MENTAL abilities differ, cultures will also differ because different people with certain MENTAL abilities require that their CULTURE be organized in different ways.

Therefore, in order to maintain Western CULTURE, white RACIAL abilities must be the center of Western culture, and so too must maintaining a successful white population.

Now, a defender of EGI/Tribalism could argue because races that are more similar to each other also share similar racial abilities, that EGI is still valid.

However, again, EGI is NOT a valid basis for race realism, because when you seek out someone for a sexual relationship you seek out (consciously or unconsciously) someone with traits you feel will be beneficial to potential offspring, not ones that are necessarily similar to your own.

Again, ABILITY and Characteristics are why race is important, not similarity.

Also, EGI is not compatible with Galtonian Eugenics because the purpose of Galtonian Eugenics is to enhance certain ABILITIES in the existing population, and NOT to keep the population's abilities the same.

Darwin and Galton (not the anti-Darwin EGI/Tribalism) must be the basis of race realist immigration policy.

[Steve]

"Hate" is a pretty strong word there HS. Elite liberal whites may simply think that Asians can take care of themselves, while blacks and Hispanics need white help to get by. Paternalism.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

I'm going to keep attacking EGI in favor of Darwinism because it's impossible to make a race realist argument unless one can argue convincingly WHY race is important.

Another way to show why Darwinism is scientifically valid and EGI isn't scientifically valid.

Race is important because races have different mental characteristics and abilities that are more suited for certain civilizations and cultures than in others.

In EGI, people would only screen for and select sexual partners who are genetically similar to their immediate neighbors and family.

In Darwinism and Galtonism, people screen for and select sexual partners based on desireable CHARACTERISTICS and ABILITIES, not similarity. Women and men will marry outside their immediate village/neighborhood if men and women in other areas have CHARACTERISTICS and ABILITIES that they find desirable, even if their partner is not similar to themselves.

Women tend to seek men that have ABILITIES - and NOT similarity - like athleticism, social skills, money making ability that they would want to pass on to their children.

Likewise, men seek women with ABILITIES and CHARACTERISTICS - and NOT similarity - such as beauty (which tends to signal health and fertility) they would want to pass on to their children.

ABILITIES and CHARACTERISTICS are why Darwinism is real and EGI is false.

Do no use EGI as a justification for race realism (because EGI makes no sense in a Darwinian system).

Use Darwin and Galton instead to justify race realism.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

Btw, the reason the white nationalists/paleocons are proponents of the EGI (which is ironically not compatible with evolutionary theory) is because in computational genetics group selection theories such as EGI/genetic Tribalism lead to exterminating outgroups.

So, the idiot WNs and Paleos have been unsuccessfully using a scientifically and logically incoherent EGI/Similarity argument that is not compatible with Darwinian and Galtonian theory to justify restricting immigration because EGI and Genetic Similarity theories lead to arguments in favor of exterminating any outgroup.

This is why race realism is going nowhere with paleoconservatives and white nationalists who can't even explain why race is important.

[Mirco Romanato]

Sorry, it is not "hate", it is "fear".
Elite liberals fear the Asians because Asian are able to out-compete them. This is because they need quotas of Blacks and Hispanics. The favor the latter to exclude the former. Blacks and Hispanics are not a real danger to their control of Academia.
The distribution of IQ in NAMs in Academia guarantee the number of NAMs with an IQ high enough to outcompete the white liberals is tiny.
With East Asians this is not true.

[Peter]

"SWPLs have segregated themselves so well from NAMs in areas like the Hamptons"

Let's see ... the "Hill" in Southampton, the whole area along the Bridgehampton - Sag Harbor Road, the north end of East Hampton ... what's that about segregation from NAM's in the Hamptons?

[Peter A]

"Asians are the minority that elite liberal whites hate."

Except when they marry them, in increasing numbers.

Get serious, most elite liberal whites are pretty cool with Asians. Keeping blacks and hispanics out of CUNY without whites being held responsible for it is a feature, not a bug. It makes the school a far better place for the white kids who do get in. (As Alvin points out above).

Most elite whites don't believe that Asians can really outcompete them. When push comes to shove Asians are not agressive enough and will back down when confronted. That may not be true, but that's what most whites believe. They aren't scared of Asians, rightly or wrongly. It's mostly lower class whites who have issues with Asians.

[DaveJ]

Elite whites fear Asians for the same reasons they feared Jews before Jews became elite themselves. Because Asians threaten the frat boys and sons of elite families who would rather coast through school and work without trying hard.

[JayMan]

@Alvin Jones:

In Japan, Whites are "NAMs". ;)

The troublesome minorities need not be NAMs there as well (if they are SE Asian).

[Rocky Balboa]

asians are a threat to middle class and upper class whites because they can compete for professional jobs and university spots. elite whites, not so much..... to get into the elite usually takes strong verbal and social skills, which Asians tend to lack even in the 2nd generation.

Indians, whose verbal skills are quite good, are rocketing upward into the elite very quickly. yet their numbers (1% of the population) are currently too small to pose a major threat... yet.....

[Doug]

Right wingers and Republicans should be pushing for massive Chinese immigration, especially now before China develops and they no longer want to come here.

The Chinese are natural conservatives, don't tolerate PC bullshit, believe in HBD and aren't part of the racial spoils system. There high earning potential makes them net tax payers and enemies of socialism. Asian success in American makes farce of the narrative of minority underachievement due to discrimination.

The only thing that can save the country from a one party liberal democrat system as the white population dwindles is an influx from the massive Asian population centers. Let in 100 million East Asians. The economy would receive massive stimulus, especially the housing market. Crime would fall and cities would gentrify. An influx of doctors and healthcare workers will help keep healthcare costs down. Most likely unemployment would actually fall because the Chinese are natural businessmen and would create many new jobs.

Bias towards Christians (25 million in China, and half of Korea) and it will dampen the cultural disruption as well. If the Republicans push for this they win the votes of the Chinese community for the next 100 years, and save themselves from their now inevitable decline.

[Peter]

Girls episode 7 recap.

Most of the action takes place at an enormous warehouse party in Bushwick. While the girls are walking to the party Jessa gets a text from a number she doesn't recognize asking her what's up. She responds, not knowing to whom, with the address of the party and invites the sender of the text to come.

Charlie's and Ray's band "Questionable Goods" is one of the many bands performing at the party. Marnie feels a bit awkward about speaking to Charlie, their breakup having occurred just two weeks previously, but eventually she does so - only to be interrupted by Audrey, a bouncy brunette who is Charlie's new girlfriend. Marnie is aghast that Charlie has landed back on his feet so quickly.

Hannah sees Adam at the party ("the first time I've ever seen him with his shirt on") entertaining a group of lesbians. He calls out to her but she pretends not to hear. She then finds out from one of Adam's sapphic pals that he is an Alcoholics Anonymous member. The friend is surprised that Hannah didn't know about that side of Adam's life.

Shoshanna smokes what she thinks is pot but actually was crack. She starts freaking out, and Jessa enlists Ray to be her "guide" until the high ends. Shoshanna runs out of the party and Ray pursues her through the grim streets of Bushwick. Eventually he catches up to her, and Shoshanna - who had forgotten that he was supposed to be looking out for her - kicks him in the 'nads, thinking he was some random rapist. Embarrassed at what she's done, the no-longer-high Shoshanna says that she had taken a college course in sports massage (thinking it would help her meet athletes) and offers to massage Ray's injured area. Ray asks her in effect whether she wants to massage his _cojones_, which she promptly does, right out on the dark sidewalk.

Still extremely dismayed about Charlie's acquisition of a new girlfriend, Marnie tries to tell some random guy about her woes, but he isn't interested. She then spots Hannah's now-gay ex-boyfriend Elijah, who soon tells her that she's just as selfish as Hannah is. They insult each other, and Elijah ends up slapping Marnie right across the face.

The unknown recipient of Jessa's text shows up, and it turns out to be none other than Jeff, the father of the girls she babysits. He's alone in town because his wife is visiting her mother with the girls. They talk in a very easygoing way for a while, unfortunately Jeff ends up getting knocked out by a couple of bikers after Jessa thoughtlessly drops a bottle of wine on them from a balcony. At the hospital, where Jeff is waiting to be treated for his injuries, and where they see a female drug addict demanding Vicodin, Jeff is humiliated and very upset about what he'll tell his wife. He asks Jessa to come back to his apartment with him and spend the night, but Jessa declines. For practically the first time in the series she looks dead serious.

Hannah finally talks to Adam, and he takes her on a hunt for scrap metal for one of his projects, Hannah riding on the handlebars of his bicycle. He's riding quite recklessly through a railyard (Bushwick Terminal, I believe) when Hannah begs him to stop. He does, and Hannah goes flying off the bicycle and falls on her face. She isn't injured. Marnie then comes up in a taxi, she and Hannah having texted, and she starts angrily berating Adam for being a pervert and cruel to Hannah. This prompts a heart-to-heart discussion between Hannah and Adam. He says that he always was willing to be her boyfriend but didn't think that was what she wanted. When Hannah asks him why he never told her about being in AA, he says that she never asked. The episode ends with Hannah, Adam, and Marnie (and Adam's bicycle) in the taxi. Marnie looks disgusted, and Hannah is smiling.

As I see it, this episode strengthens the relationship between Hannah and Adam. His belonging to AA (he's participated since age 17) shows a more serious side to him, and he and Hannah now are more clear about what each expects from the other. It looks like there is now a budding relationship between Ray and Shoshanna. Jessa has finally started taking things seriously, though it's not clear whether she'll be able to keep her nanny job. As for Marnie, well, it is VERY satisfying to see that uptight Ice Princess get her comeuppance, and from multiple angles.

Note: there are a couple of topless women, but they are random chix at the party.

[Peter]

By the way, if Girls isn't your cup of tea, I've found another interesting show:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borgen_%28TV_series%29

It's being shown on Link TV and all the episodes can be streamed for free at linktv.org. I know, the last interesting fiction about Danish politics was Hamlet, and that was something like 500 years ago, but Borgen is superbly written and well-paced.

While given the show's nature there is no nudity, the (subtitled) swear words aren't censored. Link TV is one of the very few free cable channels that doesn't censor its shows.

[Peter]

By the way, if my recap of Girls episode 7 seems a bit disjointed, it's because I've been drinking 101-proof Wild Turkey for the last couple of hours. Also, because I have a cold, I took a double dose of generic NyQuil.

I'm also on a (slight) guilt trip for taking pleasure in seeing Marnie's humiliation. Okay, she's not a particularly pleasant sort, but she's also 24 years old, and we've all made mistakes at that age.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Hatred" is too strong a word to describe elite white opinion of Asian immigrants, but I've heard much too many sharp comments from upper middle and upper class whites about Asians to conclude anything other than elite whites are getting increasingly irritated with Asian immigrants.

To be sure, they certainly aren't ready to support a ban on Asian immigration but it's clear there is, to some degree, increasing tension.

"asians are a threat to middle class and upper class whites because they can compete for professional jobs and university spots. elite whites, not so much..... to get into the elite usually takes strong verbal and social skills, which Asians tend to lack even in the 2nd generation."

Of course elite whites don't have some (low level) hostility against Asians. That's why elite universities don't have barely disguised quotas on Asian immigrants at such elite watering country clubs as Harvard, Yale, and Princeton.

"Indians, whose verbal skills are quite good, are rocketing upward into the elite very quickly. yet their numbers (1% of the population) are currently too small to pose a major threat... yet....."

I'm not sure about other commentators here, but from what I've seen and heard, Indians are getting noticed in a more and more negative way by the well to do set.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Elite liberals fear the Asians because Asian are able to out-compete them."

There is the issue of competition for spots at increasingly expensive private schools, elite colleges, and jobs, but it's more than just competition that's driving low level SWPL hostility to Asians.

It's also the fact that Asians are forcing SWPLs to move out of their communities and driving up the cost of (already too high) housing that's causing friction between the two.

The reason Asians are driving elite whites out of their neighborhoods is because there's a limit to how much social interaction different ethnic groups with different psychological profiles can interact with one another on a day to day basis.

This psychological incompatibility is why whites can't stand being around Asians if the Asian population passes a certain threshold. For instance, white elites tend to be athletic and outdoors oriented. Asians don't participate (much) in sports elite whites love such as rowing, lacrosse or hiking. Asians don't have much interest in the arts, fashion, cuisine, literature, and cinema that elite whites do.

As a final insult to SWPL sensibilities, Asians are too financially wealthy an immigrant group to justify funding for ethnic "uplift" organizations. Thus, there is no social status to be gained by helping Asians because they don't need any liberal social programs gospel (unlike certain other ethnic groups).

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Right wingers and Republicans should be pushing for massive Chinese immigration, especially now before China develops and they no longer want to come here."

No more Asian immigrants because Western civilization is designed to utilize white psychological abilities, not Asian psychological traits. Western culture and civilization depends on individualism, creativity, and boldness, qualities Asians are woefully lacking in.

At a more local level, Asians drive up the cost of living for white Americans because they make private schools, neighborhoods, and universities unusable if there are too many of them.

For example, if ten years ago, an upper middle class neighborhood went from having ten private high schools that were all majority white to only four today because of Asian immigrants, then upper middle class whites will have suffered a sizable decline in their quality of living. European immigrants would not have caused this much decline in life quality because white Americans would (consciously or unconsciously) be much more socially comfortable sending their children to a school where the majority of students are recent European immigrants. Whites, because of differing psychological abilities, need to be around other white people in order to build a sense of community.

100% whites only immigration and large cash payments to nonwhites in exchange for their turning in their citizenship (a la Eduardo Saverin) is the only logical pro-American position.

[Asian]

That's retarded, they don't hate them, they just don't care about them one way or another. Liberal elites like losers. Since Asians aren't social losers in America, you don't get liberal kudos for helping them. It's that simple.

But HATE???? That's just retarded.

No offense, Half, but your reasoning is just dumb. According to you, Asians are minorities, so what could explain the liberal indifference to them if not some kind of special hate? But liberals only help minorities when they are social losers. I would suggest you have an extremely superficial grasp of liberal motivations if you can write a simplistic analysis like this.

[Otis the Sweaty]

My review of Girls 7:

Peter did get a few things wrong and backwards, probably because of the drinking and syzurp he mentioned.

There were 2 key events/themes/revelations/whatever in this ep:

1. We see that Adam is an alcoholic and his behavior towards Hannah was not all, or not mainly, fake alpha game but rather were the actions of a guy who thought Hannah didn't want anything but sex from him. This whole season we have assumed that Adam was using Hannah, but from Adam's point of view it has been Hannah using him. Very interesting twist.

2. Creepy unemployed dad has been using "nice guy" game on Jessa. He had me fooled. I thought he was just an affable loser and it was Jessa trying to seduce him. Instead she was just doing the typical hot girl tease thing and he was being a creepy middle aged perv.

So kudos to the show for getting two surprise twists in the same episode.

Also in this episode: Apparently Marnie has always been a selfish bitch, which isn't too much of a surprise. Also, Charlie isn't and never was a beta, he's just a nice guy.

I didn't realize how short Shoshanna was. I had assumed she was about 5'10 but she looks like she might be closer to 5'3.

Jessa gets more beautiful every episode.

This show really isn't that funny. It does have a few laugh out loud moments in each episode, usually from something Hannah says, but most of the jokes fall flat and are the same type of Apatow brand "loser humor" that you would see in movies such as "Role Models". This is a great show for it's negative portrayal of women but lacks the funniness to ever get more than a cult following.

[Secret of NAM]

Just tax the rich more to make up for any fraud. These are just normal people trying to stick it to the undeserving rich who have stolen so much more than these people ever will. C'mon, you're the blogger who wants to put the whole middle class on FOODSTAMPS. This is just the 99% gettin' they some.

[drole prole]

SWPLs are openly 'racist' towards Asians because Asians aren't overly sensitive to 'racists' comments like other races esp blacks. When openly made fun of for being Asian, Asians often joke along.

[WRB]

I did some test prep teaching and I knew many Asian students. I was not impressed. These kids are under house arrest even during the vacation; they study while others travel or have social life.

Given a White and an Oriental student with equal SAT scores, the White one will usually be the smarter one.

[Otis the Sweaty]

"So, the idiot WNs and Paleos have been unsuccessfully using a scientifically and logically incoherent EGI/Similarity argument that is not compatible with Darwinian and Galtonian theory to justify restricting immigration because EGI and Genetic Similarity theories lead to arguments in favor of exterminating any outgroup."

Most Paleocons and WNs think very highly of Arabs and Asians so your theory doesn't make sense.

[RandomMedStudent]

It is to be expected that SWPLs and upper middle class Whites have more tension with Asians than with NAMs. There simply aren't that many NAMs where they live or go to school. The NAMs that are there also tend to have adopted white middle class behavioral patterns (NAMs that act NAM-ish do not do well). Asians, on the other hand, form a rather large minority. Indeed, in my ivy league medical school class, Asians slightly outnumber whites. Furthermore, with Asians, the less Americanized tend to do better at school than the more Americanized Asians. Thus, there simply are more things to be ruffled about Asians.

[RandomMedStudent]

East Asians are very status conscious but appear to lack a deep understanding of what gives a person status in America. Many East Asian parents assume that the rules are the same in America as they are in Asia - hence the focus on learning to play the violin (sports are much more useful), over-focusing on middle school level standardized tests and the PSAT (it does make sense to focus on the SAT however), and assuming that going to a university with smart students will give their children status (Ivy League is prestigious only partly because kids there tend to be smart).

As HS pointed out, upper class whites do not go to CUNY. They'd much rather go to an expensive liberal arts university in some town in New England. CUNY is supposed to be where middle class NYCers come to study. As there are not much middle class whites in NYC, it is only natural that CUNY will become Asian dominated.

[superdestroyer]

PeterA,

Any upper middle class white who believes that the can outcompete the Asians is a fool. All you have to go is look at how Asians are overrepresented in every Ivy League university and at the top high schools.

Why do you think the rich white kids have virtually abandon engineering, science, and health care for careers. The white kids cannot outcompete the Asians in those fields. That is why all of the white kids want to be actors, producers, literary agents, or freelance writers.

[Peter]

"Peter did get a few things wrong and backwards, probably because of the drinking and syzurp he mentioned ... We see that Adam is an alcoholic and his behavior towards Hannah was not all, or not mainly, fake alpha game but rather were the actions of a guy who thought Hannah didn't want anything but sex from him."

That is right. Adam said in effect that he thought Hannah was having sex with him in order to write about it in her journal.
It is now easier to understand why Adam was so cool under pressure when Hannah tried to break up with him a couple of episodes ago. I thought at the time it was a highly Alpha move, saying little and letting Hannah talk herself out of her decision. Now, though, the obvious reason is that Adam at the time wasn't getting much out of the relationship except occasional casual sex, which he probably could have gotten elsewhere, hence his coolness.

Speaking of Adam, his dancing with a group of lesbians in this episode gave rise to a major blooper, when Jessa remarks that he's attracting lesbians "like he owns a Home Depot." First of all, not that long ago I worked as a vendor inside many Home Depot stores and never noticed that they attracted lesbians. You can be 100% that it's the sort of thing I **would** have noticed. Secondly, Jessa is 24 years old, and just returned to the United States after two years post-college wandering around Europe and Asia. The chances that she would ever have been in a Home Depot, or would know anything about the stores, are close to zero.

[Te]

Liberals hate Asians because Asians prove that capitalism is a meritocracy, thus undermining the entire liberal Marxist ideology. Asians often come to America as poor disenfranchised racial minorities, yet through hard work and intelligence become rich, and don't need some white liberal savior to do it. This is anathema to liberals and makes liberals look not only wrong, but irrelevant.

So the real question is not why do liberals hate Asians, but why do liberals hate capitalism? I suspect it's because as rich as some liberals are, there's always the occasional prole who is even richer.

[WencilAr]

Half Sigma,

My understanding is that after two generations in the United States, Northeast Asians tend to intermarry with the white population.

Take as the starting premise that my goal is for the USA to still exist in 100 years, and to be the wealthiest and most powerful country.

Take as a starting premise that the USA can attract immigrants from China and Korea with an average genetic population IQ of 110. That is to say that the mean IQ that these Asian immigrants to the USA revert to over the years is 110.

Accept my premise that in 100 years in the USA those people whose ancestors are from Korea and China will fully intermarry with those people whose ancestors are from Europe. The resulting hybrid population will have an average IQ of 105. Those people will make up much of the elite of the USA.

to me, this outcome for the USA is quite attractive.

Now, I can fully understand that the above scenario is not that attractive to those Asian parents that want to keep their children's bloodline pure. I can fully understand that the above scenario is not attractive to those whites that want to keep their children's bloodline pure.

But for the rest of us, really what is the negative to a hybridized genetically high IQ elite for the USA?

[CamelCaseRob]

"No more Asian immigrants because Western civilization is designed to utilize white psychological abilities, not Asian psychological traits. Western culture and civilization depends on individualism, creativity, and boldness, qualities Asians are woefully lacking in." - TUJ

I'll take, not 100 million, but 300 million, NE Asians, if we can get the smart ones. They are a civil people, which is very important, and their women are much less fat than white women. Plus, only a small percentage of the population needs to be creative and bold for a civilization to survive.

[Doug]

"No more Asian immigrants because Western civilization is designed to utilize white psychological abilities, not Asian psychological traits. Western culture and civilization depends on individualism, creativity, and boldness, qualities Asians are woefully lacking in."

Of course consider countries with a majority Chinese population, a minority white SWPL population and a government based on Western classical liberalism. Countries like Hong Kong, Singapore and pre-Maoist Shanghai. As everyone knows they're nothing more than simmering hellholes with backwards economies and chaos in the streets.

[BlogRaju]

"Indians, whose verbal skills are quite good, are rocketing upward into the elite very quickly. yet their numbers (1% of the population) are currently too small to pose a major threat... yet....." ---Rocky Balboa

"I'm not sure about other commentators here, but from what I've seen and heard, Indians are getting noticed in a more and more negative way by the well to do set."
---The Undiscovered Jew

Oh no! My people are being noticed in an increasingly negative way! Does that mean I will get some free government goodies soon?

Indians might have better verbal skills than East Asians because Indians who move to the USA attended schools that taught all courses in English.

I don't know about the SWPLs, but two conservative states elected "Indian" governors, the children of Indian immigrants.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

OT,

The college tuition scam is getting more headlines. I'd like to see Sigma continue posting on education reform that will serve two purposes. The first purpose of education reform is to use the college tuition crisis to as a way to sneak in college reforms at the state and national level that will defund and disband most American liberal arts departments and deal a possibly crippling defeat to a major relay node in the leftist feedback loop. Ideally, if our policiies are implemented, there will be no liberal arts departments or classes left in the country and every course offering in the country will be either STEM or business related.

The second purpose is to make college cheaper. While HBDers have been focusing on how stupid liberal arts majors are to major in a field that won't lead to a solid income, don't forget that even STEM majors will eventually not be able to pay off their student loan bills because college tuition is inflating faster than health care premiums.

So, here are three more policies I want to see Sigma promote (NOTE: all of these policies can be imposed against the will of American universities by legislation written by Congress or state legislatures because the Congress and states provide the funding the colleges need to exist):

1) Go Nixon on Academia with Tuition Price Controls.

Tuition is inflating faster than health care. Someone just projected that if current trends continue, in 18 years private school tuition will be over $118,000 per year. Even putting aside the ideological bent of US colleges, the federal government needs to rein in prices via regulations that require colleges start cutting tuition by x%. The colleges are destroying the American middle class with their out of control tuition tax hikes (even for STEM majors) and the Feds and state governments need to step in and bring tuition back under control.

Also since Sigma approves of price controls to keep health insurance under control, I think he should also support price controls for college tuition to make college more affordable to the middle class.

2) Import British/Australian style curriculum.

In Britain and Australia there are no gened requirements. Instead, college students study only courses relevant to their fields. Because there are no gened ed reqs in Britain and Australia, students there graduate in three years.

In America, most non-lib arts majors don't see classes relevant to their career until their junior or senior years because they are forced to take classes such as philosophy and english literature that they already learned in high school. So the first two years of their college life is a waste in terms of career preparation. In addition they get saddled with an extra two to three years of college debt.

If American college students could skip the entire gened requirements, they would cut their tuition bills in half because they would spend fewer years in college and they would be more valuable to employers because they will have had a career oriented education.

Another benefit of importing British/Australian curriculum would be that there would be mass layoffs of liberal arts teachers because most liberal arts teachers spend their time teaching gened requirements to non-lib arts freshmen and sophomores because there are relatively few liberal arts majors.

Without gened requirements, most liberal arts professors would have nothing to teach and their departments would be either severely cut back or be eliminated entirely. Let's send these guys to the unemployment line by importing the British/Australian education system.

3) Force colleges to offer all of their liberal arts classes online to further drive out liberal arts professors into bankruptcy.

While one could argue that business and STEM classes could also be taught online, the advantage attending STEM and business classes in a brick and mortar facility is that the brick and mortar schools are great ways to build future career networks and friendships. For example, Larry Page wouldn't have gotten the same benefit from online Stanford classes that he got from attending class with Sergey Brin.

The liberal arts, on the other hand, provide negative economic value to most of their graduates and they are the departments most thoroughly infested with every strain of liberalism.

Time to cut off the money supply to the liberal arts tumor.

[Jack]

As an upper middle class white, hoping beyond hope to stay that way, my attitude toward asians is one of suspicious condescension. It is true that they compete with middle and upper class whites for spots at elite universities and prep schools (all of which were built by whites). They can be nice but tend to be sneaky too. They are extremely status-conscious and would love nothing more than to take our best jobs and women, complaining when they don't have access to those things. They don't bring much to the table besides rote memorizing and math skills. I have no problem with us using them as engineers and doctors, but they're trying to get into things like law (where there's already too much competition) where they have no business.

If Ivies have an Asian quota it's unofficial, based on legacy and athletes (almost all white). Personally I have no problem with white kids who play squash and lax getting into Ivies with 200 pts lower SAT than another geeky Asian. Asians have more than enough spots at Ivies, and they need to pay their dues in this society instead of asking for the top of everything.

[eggwhite]

Where is there evidence that the liberal elites hate Asians? I see a certain indifference, but not hate, am I missing something? Generally, I think liberal elites hate regular White folks much more than Asians

[alex]

Asians seem to be genetically less likely to engage in prosocial behavior - http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/2330-niceness-dna-scientists-find.html

It certainly correlates with my experience, and may be be one reason Universities are less interested in Asians. Asians are less likely to donate after graduation, less likely to get involved in community life, etc

[Peter A]

Any upper middle class white who believes that the can outcompete the Asians is a fool.

Maybe we are fools, but most of us think that way, which was my point. We don't hate Asians because we don't see them as a real threat. I am pretty confident though that Asians cannot compete with Ashkenazi Jews.

Why do you think the rich white kids have virtually abandon engineering, science, and health care for careers.

Because those are shitty beta careers. You work hard, and you get little status and mediocre pay. Upper class whites don't want those jobs. The fact that Asians are taking those jobs demonstrates they are not competing successfully. I know a number of Jews who started as engineers and are now working as lawyers making 3x the salary they did as engineers. They were certainly smart enough to be engineers, but it is a dead end path. Whites still dominate Big Law, I-Banking, Political Consulting, Hollywood, etc. I suppose Asians are making inroads in hedge funds and IT/software development. In Silicon Valley I would imagine there is more White-Asian tension because that is a field where Asians really do pose a threat to white status. Don't know if that is really the case though.

[Rocky Balboa]

East Asians are a major threat in university admissions, but unthreatening to elite whites in other arenas.

East Asians aren't ladies men, not especially athletic, generally tend to not get promoted to management track, are low crime rate, and are deferential to authority. They also have pretty women. That's not going to make elite whites scared of them.

Indians are similar to East Asians, but more likely to get promoted to management track. This generates more ire. Indian women also are not that accessible to white men.

Non-elite whites do face economic competition from East Asians.

[Zimriel]

Peter writes - First of all, not that long ago I worked as a vendor inside many Home Depot stores and never noticed that they attracted lesbians. You can be 100% that it's the sort of thing I **would** have noticed. Secondly, Jessa is 24 years old, and just returned to the United States after two years post-college wandering around Europe and Asia. The chances that she would ever have been in a Home Depot, or would know anything about the stores, are close to zero.

So in other words... a girl ignorant about Home Depot makes a mistaken assumption about Home Depot. That doesn't strike me as much of a blooper. Plot hole, maybe.

[superdestroyer]

Peter A,

There is a little career field called Therapy Physicists. For many years is just required a masters degree from a state school and a two year residience. After being credentialed, a therapy physicist could make more than $200K while living where you want. Yet, white guys have left the field and it is hard to find a therapy physicists who can speak English.

Whites who want to compete in log-normal career field such as law that requires a law degree from a top 14 school or I-Banking that requires a degree from a top five MBA program (and where there are many Asians) is a fools errand.

Most of the white kids who think they will be successful in Hollywood or consulting are the failures who were afraid to be a physician making $400K.

And jews are abandoning the technical fields just like the rest of whites.

Once again, anyone who thinks that they can outhustle a culture that is built on group support, long-term planning, and hard work is a fool. My guess is that very few drunken frat boys stand a chance competing against asisans for educational opportunities, careers, etc.

[RandomMedStudent]

Peter A wrote:
"Why do you think the rich white kids have virtually abandon engineering, science, and health care for careers.

Because those are shitty beta careers. You work hard, and you get little status and mediocre pay. Upper class whites don't want those jobs. The fact that Asians are taking those jobs demonstrates they are not competing successfully"

Now, it is true that people who work in STEM fields tend to be beta, but you appear to over-estimate the returns to working in "alpha" fields such as law, business, and hollywood. Law is not less shitty than medicine. If you go to one of the top 6 law schools, you mostly become upper middle class (as with medical school). A few become big law partners, but those are a few, just like super docs are rare. A JD from a non top-14 law school is basically like a liberal arts degree. Business (including I-banking) is tremendously high risk. Hollywood is even more so. Of course, the top players in law, business, and hollywood attain much greater social influence than the top players in STEM fields, but one cannot say an individual is making a bad choice by going into engineering or medicine.

[RandomMedStudent]

Of course, if you are "upper class," it doesn't make sense to go into STEM fields. These jobs require great amount of work and will not raise your status much beyond what you already have. An upper class young person would rather go into something businessy like consulting, banking, or coporate law since they have money, or something fun like acting or writing.

[nebbish]

Peter A: "I am pretty confident though that Asians cannot compete with Ashkenazi Jews."

I am Ashkenazi, and I'm not sure I agree with you. The difference in average IQ between Ashkenazim and the highly selected Asians that are in the U.S. is not so great. Of course, the profile of verbal vs. visuo-spatial strength is different, and Ashkenazi verbal skew probably does help with success in the log-normal career fields you cited. However, internal drive and willingness to work hard are not trivial, and I think that Asians have the edge in those qualities over Ashkenazim, not least because the Ashkenazim are farther from their immigrant roots. Also, by virtue of the fact that all of the desirable career fields you cited have log-normal outcome distributions, most Ashkenazim and gentile whites who attempt them also fail out before reaching the highest/equity partnership levels. Plenty of intelligent and talented whites and Ashkenazim are forced into competition with Asians in the careers you describe as "dead-end."

[Te]

"Whites still dominate Big Law, I-Banking, Political Consulting, Hollywood, etc"

What these fields have in common is they all involve value transference and nepotism. America has way too many of these dead weight occupations and that's why its in decline. Asians by contrast work in fields like medicine engineering; meritocratic fields that actually create value and add something to society.

Whites are good at making money. Asians are good at EARNING it.

[Matt in RTP]

Is medicine really as meritocratic as engineering? I think one of the reasons it appeals to the unimaginative and risk averse so much is that once you pass the hurdle of med school admittance, you can be a pretty poor doctor and still get a comfy sinecure for having been in the top 20% of med school applicants at age 22.

[JonR]

SWPLs aren't the same as groups such as preppies, yuppies, etc. in professional fields that Asians are in as well.

SWPLs generally don't row or play lacrosse. They are generally unathletic and didn't really play traditional sports. They usually do something like cycling if they do sports. And they don't tend to earn MBAs or other professional degrees. If they get a Master's it's usually in libarts.

[nebbish]

Matt in RTP,

Medicine may not be as meritocratic as engineering, but it is moreso than law. For obtaining residency positions, where one attends medical school is less important than grades and USMLE scores, although it still has some impact. There is also the threat of malpractice suits, and younger physicians have to contend with periodic specialty board recertification, which is now pretty much the norm across specialties.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"I'll take, not 100 million, but 300 million, NE Asians, if we can get the smart ones."

Oh, please.

Even you don't REALLY believe Asians are culturally interchangeable with whites.

If your entire city were taken over by Asians to the point where you were the only white person left, you would move in a second to one of the last remaining white citys because you unconsciously understand social interactions with whites will always be more productive and natural than they will ever be with Asians.

No more Asians regardless of intelligence because their other psycholigical traits will always prevent them from assimilating into American (and European) culture as well as white immigrants.

Culture depends on other psychological characteristics and abilities aside from raw IQ levels. American and Western culture is designed to utilize WHITE cognitive abilities, not Asian cognitive abilities.

On a more individual level, whites prefer to socialize with other white people because their overlapping mental characteristics mean they share more hobbies, sports, perspective, and emotional empathy with other whites, not Asians. Too many Asians breaks down American culture and sense of community because whites can only interact with a minimal threshold of Asians.

Culture depends on race and is inseparable from race because culture is how a population's abilities are utilized and organized. Since Asians and whites have different psychological profiles, Asian immigrants will change Western culture.

Therefore in order to preserve American culture, whites only whites should be allowed to apply to immigrate to the United States and all other white nations and current non-white immigrants should be encouraged to follow Eduardo Saverin's lead by offering them large cash buyouts in exchange for turning in their citizenship/green cards.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"SWPLs aren't the same as groups such as preppies, yuppies, etc. in professional fields that Asians are in as well.

SWPLs generally don't row or play lacrosse. They are generally unathletic and didn't really play traditional sports. They usually do something like cycling if they do sports."

The same principle holds true for bike riding SWPLs: Asians don't participate much in SWPL hobbies like cycling because of their psychological characteristics, and this difference is always going to prevent SWPLs, and preppies, and yuppies, and all other white Americans, from sharing the same satisfaction in the same cultural niche as they share with other whites.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Whites still dominate Big Law, I-Banking, Political Consulting, Hollywood, etc"

Only a minority of upper class whites are in these fields. And political consulting is not an elite occupation like business consulting is.

Elite whites are more likely to transition to other fields after they graduate from college, but there are still plenty of elite children studying STEM.

Part of the reason Asians give the impression they are scientifically oriented than whites is because first and second generation Asians push more of their smart fraction into STEM fields, and to the other exclusion of other career paths, than whites do. Intelligent white students are still going into STEM, it's just that their talent pool is more evenly spread studying in less demanding fields that still pay as well as STEM fields (such as business) than Asians do. Third generation Asians don't seem very STEM oriented. Asians in STEM tend to be overwhelmingly first and second generation.

A similar phenomena happens with recent Eastern European and Jewish immigrants. Eastern Europeans and Jewish immigrants tend to study STEM in the US much more than native born European and Jewish Americans do.

Much of the reason for Asian overrepresntation in STEM is just due to intelligent native born students not pushing themselves as hard as first generation immigrants (including even Eastern European and Jewish immigrants).

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Whites are good at making money. Asians are good at EARNING it."

Asians are good at copying and rote memorizing innovations European people earned, but they can't come up with original ideas that will keep them ahead of whites.

If Asians are so good at "earning", why are they so far behind whites in Nobel Prizes (the highest Nobel winning Asian country, Japan, has only 16 Nobel wins in the hard sciences)?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Of course consider countries with a majority Chinese population, a minority white SWPL population and a government based on Western classical liberalism. Countries like Hong Kong, Singapore and pre-Maoist Shanghai. As everyone knows they're nothing more than simmering hellholes with backwards economies and chaos in the streets."

I didn't claim Asian nations were hellholes, I argued whites assimilated better into Western cultures than Asians do because Western culture is designed to utilize and optimize white psychological abilities.

If you were the last non-Asian person in your neighborhood, would you stay in the Asian city or move to a whiter city? If you would move to a whiter city, doesn't that mean that whites fit better with Western culture?

Do you want to go trick or treating with your kids in a neighborhood that's all Asian or all white?

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Once again, anyone who thinks that they can outhustle a culture that is built on group support, long-term planning, and hard work is a fool."

How is that consistent with the fact Europe easily beat Asia in reaching the industrial revolution? And where are Asia's Nobel Prizes? Japan, the biggest Asian winner of Nobels, has captured only 16 in the hard sciences:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country

[Peter A]

"Of course, if you are "upper class," it doesn't make sense to go into STEM fields. These jobs require great amount of work and will not raise your status much beyond what you already have"

Thank you. That is pretty much my point in a nutshell. It is true that the influx of Asians is going to make it very hard for lower middle class whites to climb the social ladder - because STEM fields are traditionally the way most lower class smart whites (smart blacks too, for that matter), or white immigrant groups, left the working class. That's going to be very difficult in the future. But elite whites don't care about that.

[superdestroyer]

Matt in RTP,

Medicine is a field where you went to medical school does not matter as much. Medicare/Medicaid reimburses all physicians the same for the same procedure. A Harvard Medical School physicians does not get to say "I am a Harvard Man, pay me more." It appears that the legal profession is exactly the opposite.

The reason medicine has lost its allute for upper class whites is that the field is dominated by Asians and the Asians can outhustle those upper middle class whites.

[RandomMedStudent]

Superdestroyer,

It is true that medicare/medicaid reimburses all physicians the same for the same procedure. However, it is NOT true that all procedures are equally lucrative, or that all insurance pays the same for the same services. As you might imagine, it is competitive to build a practice focused on lucrative procedures (particularly the things people pay directly without going through insurance). The primary benefit of going to Harvard Medical School as opposed to a random no-name U. medical school is the relative ease of getting into highly competitive training programs that can put your career on the fast track and the relative ease of attracting "desirable" patients. If you would like to become a plastic surgeon specializing in high-end nose jobs, then going to Harvard Medical School will help (but not guarantee) you get you there. There are doctors that net more than $1M and top medical school graduates are over-represented among these docs.

As for the pay-off of medicine not being high enough, probably less than 1% of the population could say that. You truly have to be "upper class (RICH)" or VERY talented in something else to turn down medical school because the payoffs are too small. Medical school is in fact dominated by the children of upper middle class people.

[V]

"But for the rest of us, really what is the negative to a hybridized genetically high IQ elite for the USA?"

You are assuming that the population 107-110 IQ NE Asians will readily breed with the Prole class of whites whose average IQ is 100.

Your second assumption is that the elite white average IQ is 100, which I also hypothesize to be wrong. Having gone to an elite secondary school, and having a cadre of high IQ friends, I would put the bare minimum elite white IQ at 110, and the average likely being around 115. Someone with a 110 IQ in elite circles will be viewed as functional, but not quick enough to warrant 'elite' intellectual status unless outside of the walls of elite institutions and therefore in comparison to the general population. If they have that status, it was likely inherited via family accomplishment.

Most 110 Asians will intermarry with 110 whites, but not with 100 IQ whites. I surmise that the Asians who tend to marry 100 IQ whites are the 100 IQ SE Asians.

Therefore, the balance sheet remains equal for elite whites, and therefore no impetus exists to intermarry with Asians. There is only the intermixing of races, which will generally be seen as a negative.

If 100 IQ whites can get 110 IQ Asians to marry them, then, yes, that's a genetic coup. They should probably strive for this if they can stomach the racial interbreeding. However, I contend that a prole population of intermixed white/Asians (likely identifying as Asian if anything at all) puts elite whites at extreme physical/political risk, and therefore I don't know why they would want this to occur. I really do think that the political forces driven by racial identification are a blind spot in the sense of power that the elite's currently maintain. Come to think of it, raising the prole IQ by even 5 points also threatens their status, even if living conditions as a whole would be better in American society. They would rather live with crime (even the horrific crime wrought by 80-95 IQ NAMs) than a threat to their position presented by a smarter prole class. In truth, breeding intelligence into the prole/lumpen-prole classes is the only way to truly increase 'equality' in society. This isn't what they want, though.

[V]

"I did some test prep teaching and I knew many Asian students. I was not impressed. These kids are under house arrest even during the vacation; they study while others travel or have social life... Given a White and an Oriental student with equal SAT scores, the White one will usually be the smarter one."

What was so unimpressive? Their discipline? The group social values that reinforce habits that cause them to very quickly increase their family position in 1-2 generations? Their high average group IQ? Their modesty, again reinforced by group values? The resultant civic mindedness? Their ability to co-operate?

I also taught test prep, as well as classroom, in Asia.

Your inability to be impressed comes off as sour-grapes. I mean, really, argue against Asians for a variety of practical reasons, but arguing against their group academic prowess is not a good target. It's impressive, and something to be modeled, albeit with some western humane adjustments to the academic culture. France embodies a good example of Asian academic culture modified for the west.

Furthermore, SAT scores can be used to approximate IQ. Therefore, two non-LD students with identical scores will most often be comaprable in IQ. You infer that the white kid, who is hypothetically 'on vacation' while the Asian kid is studying, is smarter because he, according to you, achieves the same SAT score with less studying. It's impossible to prove either way, other than asserting that the IQ scores will likely be very close, but I hypothesize that this is utterly false. It's a myth that the SAT (particularly quantitative) can be mastered solely on the virtue of high intelligence (ie: without mastering the material through study). To achieve equal scores, both students will have to master the material through study. To my knowledge, there is no data that indicates that whites are more intellectually capable at either quantitative or verbal reasoning ability than are Asians. Quite the opposite, actually, when comparing the general populations. Elite comparison is another matter, but the general dynamics of intelligence as it relates to political/financial/academic power illustrates why white elites are reluctant to allow the general Asian population as much infiltration into our society as they allow NAMs.

[V]

"SWPLs aren't the same as groups such as preppies, yuppies, etc. in professional fields that Asians are in as well...SWPLs generally don't row or play lacrosse. They are generally unathletic and didn't really play traditional sports. They usually do something like cycling if they do sports. And they don't tend to earn MBAs or other professional degrees. If they get a Master's it's usually in libarts."

This is all false and obviously based on a stereotype of a 'limp wristed' liberal. You have to watch that, as you will otherwise be caught politically off-guard. SWPL's (liberals) are embodied through the full range of individual personalities. In today's society, that military looking jock math major that you know could also be the biggest liberal that you know. It's a strange type of person that cradle-to-grave liberal brainwashing can produce in a country with such a formerly strong (and residual) conservative culture.

Additionally, you are forgetting that the middle/middle upper class are the bastions of conservatism in this country, because their way of life is most directly threatened by NAMs. The upper class tend to be majority liberal, as they feel no direct cultural/political/criminal threat from NAMs, and view them as engaged in a noble struggle with which they can help (and therefore feel heroic while undermining the white lower/middle classes that are more of a threat). Therefore so are their prep school attending, lacrosse playing, rowing, yuppie offspring liberal.

[WRB]

"What was so unimpressive?"

If you understood what I wrote, you would not need to ask.
Like I said before, given a White and an Oriental student with equal SAT scores, the White one will usually be the smarter one.

[AE]

"Furthermore, SAT scores can be used to approximate IQ."

I don't understand how SAT scores approximate IQ. The verbal section measures your ability to differentiate between vocabulary words that you picked up from external sources. Similarly, the math section tests your ability to apply concepts that you've learned from classroom instruction.

If a bright student goes to a bad school with subpar curriculum, that student won't be able to achieve a high score regardless of his or her intellectual gifts. In many school districts where bright students are forced to follow the same watered-down curriculum that was designed for slower students, you see many kids who are very intelligent performing poorly on standardized tests.

Because there are so many other factors that influence a student's performance on the SATs, it can't seriously be used to measure someone's IQ.

[WRB]

"Because there are so many other factors that influence a student's performance on the SATs, it can't seriously be used to measure someone's IQ."

Agreed. The test prep industry exists because SAT scores can be improved while IQ stays the same.

[murf]

"Your inability to be impressed comes off as sour-grapes. I mean, really, argue against Asians for a variety of practical reasons, but arguing against their group academic prowess is not a good target. It's impressive, and something to be modeled, albeit with some western humane adjustments to the academic culture. France embodies a good example of Asian academic culture modified for the west"

Before lefties ruined our education model and before we where flooded with the equivalent of what is referred to here as "NAMs" as recently as just ten years ago Flemish kids regularly used to blow Japan, South-korea, Hong-Kong out of the water with their maths scores on the TIMSS/PISA...

The key to success certainly involves hard work (as a 17 yo I remember seeing my first differential equation on the black-board in high school, that's calculus III for you if I'm not wrong,). Of course this implies actually breaking some sweat and I have the impression the American white middle class feels it's sadism somehow to challenge kinds (and indeed most learned what failure meant at an early age in my time and place, perhaps in too fatalistic a manner back then).

What happened in Flanders is a prime example of how liberals can run amok. First, it was "discovered" that nowhere in the OECD the group difference between migrant and non-migrant scores was as pronounced (never mind that migrants in Flanders actually score higher than non-migrants in the rest of Western Europe!). Next, it was decided to hammer down this "unwarranted" variance. Math-heavy programmes were dismantled, much as the "elitist" Latin/Classical Greek programmes. Some pockets of academic resistance still remain, bust mostly the lefties had their crazy way with the system...

Just saying:
1) when discussing international IQ/TIMSS/... scores always standardize for demographics (which migrants in a given country).
2) no intrinsic reason why whites would not excell academically compared to SEAsians, but it will take hard work and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Just speculating]

"Asians are good at copying and rote memorizing innovations European people earned, but they can't come up with original ideas that will keep them ahead of whites".

Yes, East Asians still lag Whites in many areas of achievements that are based on original ideas. It should be a combination of cultural and genetic factors at play. I think cultural reasons are more of an issue. East Asians seem to lack curiosity. But I say the starkest contrast between East Asians and Westerners is how the former have almost abandoned humanism in favor of rapacious materialism, where as the latter still show a strong appreciation for Plato and Aristotle, and all the other great thinkers of the Western tradition. No one in China really gives a damn about Confucius and the other great philosophers anymore. When the curious Muslims abandoned Aristotle in favor of a strict inflexible and orthodoxical form of Islam, they pretty much destroyed the greatness of their civilization. Take note, Japan is the only East Asian country with a strong humanistic tendency in their education system. I can walk into a Japanese bookstore and find works of the great philosophers and writers from every cultural group in translation. This could be a reason why the Japanese are able to come up with some originality when compared to the less dynamic and perhaps less curious Chinese and Koreans.

[Just speculating]

"Liberals hate Asians because Asians prove that capitalism is a meritocracy, thus undermining the entire liberal Marxist ideology. Asians often come to America as poor disenfranchised racial minorities, yet through hard work and intelligence become rich, and don't need some white liberal savior to do it. This is anathema to liberals and makes liberals look not only wrong, but irrelevant".

Asians are the fastest socially upward mobile group that America has ever encountered. Many 1st generation Asians have become upper middle income earners despite having parents who were peasants with only a grade school education. It took the Eastern European Ashkenazim about 2 generations to get into an elite status. Irish and Italian catholics are still underrepresented in elite circles. The Liberals have promulgated the idealogy that racial minorities need social welfare in education, housing and other forms of handouts which of course have failed miserably or culminating in subpar results.

[Just speculating]

Liberals do not like East Asians for one particular reason, and it's the only reason where they can further their agenda. They can't use East Asians as victims of White racism to secure their power because they are antithetical to everything they believe in. If anything, I say the inscrutable East Asians would use liberal policies to further enhance their wealth and well being. Give them food stamps and affordable housing, and they will use it so their kids can secure a good education and well paying career. This is no suprise where many East Asians seem to have a lot disposable income without being in debt regardless of class they belong to.