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May 08, 2012

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Everyone knows business majors are the biggest dumbasses on campus.

It is impossible to have a discussion concerning majors and the value of college degrees if people to not understand normal and log-normal distributions.
being a CEO is a log-normal pursuit the same as being a successful pop musician or author.

However, being a computer program or engineer is a normally distributed career. You will not be rich but you will probably not be poor.

when are you going to talk about the next episode of "Girls"?

'Painter of Light' Thomas Kinkade died of accidental alcohol and Valium overdose, autopsy report reveals

* Coroner's report said famous painter died from 'accidental' overdose of alcohol and Valium
* Also said that Kinkade suffered from heart condition


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2141093/Painter-Light-Thomas-Kinkade-died-accidental-alcohol-Valium-overdose.html#ixzz1uHqFYBi4

Half Sigma, how much of the unemployment in Manhattan right now among young men in their 20s would you characterize as voluntary unemployment?

In other words, the labor market in North Dakota is very tight, there is tremendous demand for all sorts of young men in jobs that require a college degree and jobs that don't require a college degree.

But if you look at the unemployed young men in Manhattan that could easily get jobs in North Dakota, almost none make the move to North Dakota

I think it is a function first of all of optimism bias, many of the unemployed in Manhattan think they can get lucky and snag a great job so they are sticking around, and also a function of the amenities of Manhattan. It may be more fun to be unemployed in Manhattan than to be fully employed in North Dakota

Does society need to do more to pressure the unemployed to move to a new location in order to take any available job, or are we doing the right thing by allowing people to live in the cities that they want to live in, even if it means unemployment?

While happy to see college is for business majors, I can only say

THAT has NOT really done much good in the USA.

"It’s business and NOT gender studies."

As I explained before, even though 80% of students are not majoring in the liberal arts, ALL freshmen and sophomore undergrads have to take liberal arts heavy gened classes. Most liberal arts professors' teaching time isn't spent teaching liberal arts majors. Their time is spent teaching gened classes to students who, overwhelmingly, are not majoring in the liberal arts.

The gened is a waste of resources because the intelligent students have already mastered liberal arts courses such as English, History, and Government in high school and the dumb undergrads shouldn't be in college to begin with.

Solution: Copy the British/Australian college system which junks all gened requirements in favor of a three year degree that only focuses on the student's chosen major.

The benefits of importing the British approach over here would be that:

1) American students would enter the workforce 2 to 3 years earlier than they normally would (it can take 4 to 6 years to graduate under America's current 120 credit degree requirements)

2) Most liberal arts professors would out of jobs since their Philosophy 101 classrooms would be empty.

3) Students would become more economically valuable to employers because their education would be more specialized once the distraction of knocking gened pre-requisites is removed.

Less about college, more about "Girls". I want my episode 4 review.

On the subject of college, does anybody know if a 115 IQ is too stupid to be an engineer?

Computer Science departments are relatively new, and its graduates are much younger than the more established majors (say economics, math, art history, etc) You should first filter people by age and redo the stats, and see if you get the same numbers. If you want to do it right, you should also control by background. (say by parent's income)

CS will come on top of many of those majors.

"are we doing the right thing by allowing people to live in the cities that they want to live in,"

Still a free country.

In Siggy's temporary absence I'll give a review of episode 4 of "Girls."

Adam, Hannah's ugly-but-built, sorta-Beta boyfriend, seems to be turning into what is known in the TV industry as a "breakout character," in other words a secondary character who becomes a focus of attention and overshadows the primary characters. Think of Fonzie on "Happy Days." He's also getting progressively less Beta. In the beginning of the episode he texts Hannah a photo of his schwantzstucker wrapped in squirrel fur (!), only to text her a moment later to tell her that it was meant for someone else. Ignoring Marnie's advice not to respond, Hannah texts a topless photo of herself to Adam. [Editorial note: there are some actresses who probably would be better off not going topless. Lena Dunham is one of them.]

Toward the end of the episode, Hannah goes to Adam's apartment to break up with him. She does not go through with it. One of the things that helps change her mind is Adam's matter-of-fact statement that he Spanked the Monkey to Hannah's topless photo. Adam acted so cool and unemotional to Hannah's abortive breakup that he has clearly passed over the line into Alpha-dom.

Hannah has started a new job doing clerical work at a law firm. She is struggling with using simple office software, in what may be a subtle dig at the impracticality of liberal arts college. What is not subtle is the way that the obese, late-middle-aged head lawyer has his hands all over her. Two somewhat older women who work in the firm (one played by Leslie Arpin, the writer whose supposedly "racist" tweets created a tempest in a teapot) tell Hannah that they too are the targets of the lawyer's roaming hands, but they put up with because he's a very easygoing and generous boss. Can you imagine a show written by men making this point? Feminist groups would be demanding that all the writers have their _cojones_ cut off and fed to wolves.

Shoshanna runs into a young man that she had been friends with when they were counselors at a Jewish summer camp some years earlier. One thing leads to another and he ends up performing an act of oral gratification on Shoshanna. [Editorial note: the scene is filmed from the side, with Shoshanna wearing a bra. Like her co-star Allison Williams, Zosia Mamet undoubtedly has a no-nudity clause in her contract. Damn.] She then suggests that they have sex, but the young man declines when she tells him she's a virgin. [Editorial note: considering what had just happened, Shoshanna is a "virgin" only in a technical sense.]

Jemma takes the two girls she babysits to the park. She briefly loses them when she gets preoccupied with a Norma Rae-style speech to several other nannies, trying to get them to organize for better pay. Jemma is worried that she'll get fired for her oversight, but the girls' unemployed middle-aged father (who seems to be involved in some sort of possibly criminal activity) doesn't seem to care. Whether Dad and Jemma will get romantically involved remains to be seen.

Charlie, Marnie's Beta-Nice-Guy boyfriend, along with a friend of his, swipes Hannah's diary. While performing a musical number in a hipster club at the end of the episode, in front of the four girls, Charlie engages in what must be one of the most passive aggressive, ultimate Beta forms of revenge imaginable by reading aloud passages from the diary in which Hannah wonders why Marnie doesn't dump such a pathetic mangina and get a real man. Hannah is shocked that her private writings are getting a public airing, and for her part Marnie is furious at Hannah for harboring such thoughts. In fact, Marnie throws her drink on Hannah and storms out of the club.

So, what we learned from the episode is that:

1. Adam is not a Beta at all, but a cool, confident, unapologetic Alpha. He's obviously cheating on Hannah, having given her HPV and sending her a vulgar text meant for another woman.
2. Hannah is basically a doormat, a young female George Constanza as Steve Sailer has said. She is willing to tolerate a cheating boyfriend and a lecherous boss.
3. For all the hoopla about sexual harassment in the workplace, two women (Hannah's older co-workers) will accept it because the boss lets them come in late and buys them gifts.
4. Marnie's Nice Guy boyfriend is not merely a Beta, but a few steps below an Omega.

Copying the British/Australian college system sounds great, but how well prepared are the students in those schools?

Regardless of what US students major in, far too many of them are functionally illiterate and have serious deficiencies in math. I say this as someone who teaches in a "nonselective" university. I agree that "dumb undergraduates shouldn't be in college," but what is to be done with them?

Great review Peter, but one problem: " Adam is not a Beta at all, but a cool, confident, unapologetic Alpha. He's obviously cheating on Hannah, having given her HPV and sending her a vulgar text meant for another woman."

That isn't it. Can't you see what he is doing? He is using "game" on her, right down to the mispelling of "sry". There is no other woman and he is very much a beta.

"Can't you see what he is doing? He is using "game" on her, right down to the mispelling of "sry". There is no other woman and he is very much a beta."

You most likely are correct about there being no other woman. His second text indeed was a prime example of Game in action. Nonetheless, his handling of the breakup attempt was pure Alpha.

"Regardless of what US students major in, far too many of them are functionally illiterate and have serious deficiencies in math. I say this as someone who teaches in a "nonselective" university. I agree that "dumb undergraduates shouldn't be in college," but what is to be done with them?"

"Non-selective" is equivalent to a low Cal State (like Dominguez Hills and Northridge), right? Presumably the average of the SAT-M is around 500.

I suppose these non-selective students are like red dwarfs in the landscape of tertiary education: common and unnoticed. In contrast, a school Duke will be like Vega, a bright star well-known by anyone with a modicum of general knowledge.

I remember about 2/3 of college students in California attend a Cal State. I suppose that I do not appreciate the proportion of college students in non-selective/less selective institutions.

I was friendly with an Art history major in law school. She went to a liberal arts college, comes from money, was recruited to play a preppy sport (but never did), and snatched up an old money boyfriend while there. They'll be just fine in life.

"Copying the British/Australian college system sounds great, but how well prepared are the students in those schools?"

Not bad, actually. When American PISA scores are broken down by race, white students perform better than most other European nations.

"I agree that "dumb undergraduates shouldn't be in college," but what is to be done with them?"

http://www.city-journal.org/2011/21_4_skilled-labor.html

But things look very different to Karen Wright, the CEO of Ariel Corporation in Mount Vernon, Ohio. Wright’s biggest problem isn’t a lack of work; it’s a lack of skilled workers. “We have a very skilled workforce, but they are getting older,” says Wright, who employs 1,200 people at three Ohio factories. “I don’t know where we are going to find replacements.”

snip

Driving the skilled-labor shortage is a remarkable resurgence in American manufacturing. Since 2009, the number of job openings in manufacturing has been rising, with average annual earnings of $73,000, well above the average earnings in education, health services, and many other fields, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data.

"On the subject of college, does anybody know if a 115 IQ is too stupid to be an engineer?"

No because even difficult college courses are not pure tests of IQ. Memorization and studying hard can take mediocre students pretty far. Rote memorization and explaining problems as simply as possible is how Jaime Escalante got his low IQ NAM class to ace AP Calculus.

However, a student with a 115 IQ would have to study much longer and have to rely more on rote memorization than higher IQ students. Even 110 IQ could probably pull off an engineering degree.

If you have a kid who is in the 110-115 range, and you want them to get into a good paying career track, try giving them an iPad 3, load all sorts of science and math training apps onto it, and tell them that you'll let them get away with Cs and Bs in their non-math and science grade school classes if they will practice math and science problems on their iPad regularly.

That way, if they go to a decent state school (or better) they will be ready for 200 and 300 level STEM courses. Solving Math problems regularly would also be good practice if you want them to be accountants.

define "decent": I went to a state school and I got a 3.0 GPA in upper division STEM courses because I was lazy (and I possess a 1400 level intellect). At least I didn't apply myself.

"define "decent":"

Avg Math & Verbal score of at least 1100. Good enough?

good enough, it was in the mid 1050s were I attended.

At least one of my instructors had an IQ of 150, based on his GRE scores 1995 (and that they are over the Triple Nine Societies entrance criterion)

Peter,

I believe what he means is that Adam is not a "natural" alpha, only an emulating alpha.

If you read Roissy, and you implemet it correctely, you will appear alpha and maybe get alpha results, but it isn't "who you are."

people are forgetting the engineering programs are weed out programs. I find it odd that liberal arts types where everyone makes an "A" are telling people to go into engineering. Engineering programs are notorious for weeding out most of the starting freshmen. Why else go people believe that the freshmen level mechanics class is held in an auditorium but the senior level design classes are held in 30 person classrooms.

I'm trying to be an engineer now and I definitely feel like i am being "weeded out". My IQ is somewhere between 115-120 but actually that is misleading because I have a real high verbal IQ that covers up how stupid I am at math.

I can understand the material (with the help of tutors) and pass the tests but can do no more. I'm only getting C's and D's.

Do any engineering schools accept crappy students as long as they have passed all their courses? That is my only hope.

Otis, you should have tried to leverage your verbal intelligence and be a liberal arts major at a prestigious college. (Liberal arts is only good at prestigious institutions).

I did get a liberal arts degree. I am back in school now because my history degree is worthless in the new economy

Perhaps you verbal intelligence is in 750-800 range of the current SAT; I only gave the estimate since you said it was high. I guess it shows how much verbal intelligence is valued (via monetary compensation) by the marketplace (without the synergy of verbal intelligence with Ivy League credentials and connections), but I certainly appreciate the intellectual skills and abilities of competent historians. I too can commiserate because my cognitive profile is verbally skewed (although not as skewed as yours since I have fairly decent quant ability, but not the work ethic to persevere in engineering) and I graduated from a state school that isn't "decent".

You don't need much quantitative intelligence to be an excellent historian, but it certainly requires more than reciting esoteric facts as one needs to critically analyze nuanced and complex arguments (a highly verbally loaded skill).

Otis, get out of engineering and go into medicine. Medicine is purely memorization and pattern recognition. If you have high verbal ability, you'll be fine there, and doctors make between $150k-$350k. If doctor-level training sounds like too much (four years med school, 3-7 years of $50k residency, then maybe 2-3 years of $50k fellowship, all while carrying $150k-$200k in debt), you can go the physician assistant route, and cut your earning potential in half, but also be ready for work after two years of study and two years of internship.

You'll have to finish your medical school pre-requisiste. Look into postbac programs if you want to do that in a structured environment, or you can knock them out piecemeal at the local Big State school or community college.

There's also the possibility of Computer Science or Accounting.

can I get into medical school with my horrible grades?

I was initially going to do computer science but reading halfsigma talked me out of that

Otis, if you are getting Cs and Ds then you have no chance. You'll have to go back to school AGAIN if you want to get into med school.

I also have a useless Philosophy BA (no regrets) and thought about becoming an electrician...blue collar but most would think I'm a SWPL nonetheless.

[HS: You can become a hipster artisan electrician in Brooklyn.]

CS and Accounting are your least bad options.

Although CS & Accounting aren't exactly terrible options either. It's just that Med school is probably out of the question with your grades.

"Otis, get out of engineering and go into medicine. Medicine is purely memorization and pattern recognition. If you have high verbal ability, you'll be fine there, and doctors make between $150k-$350k. If doctor-level training sounds like too much (four years med school, 3-7 years of $50k residency, then maybe 2-3 years of $50k fellowship, all while carrying $150k-$200k in debt), you can go the physician assistant route, and cut your earning potential in half, but also be ready for work after two years of study and two years of internship."

Medicine is hell for people who do it solely for $$$. Maybe super-study strivers, who have been pushed to become MDs since age 5, can convince themselves that the prestige/$$$ is worth it, but if you are a normal human, you will regret it.

If you have at least a passing interest in some aspect of anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, etc., then, yes, medicine might be a good choice -- one of my (male) friends became a nurse after working for a few years in IT, but he loves exercise and sports medicine, and read medical journal articles on resistance training in his spare time; he now works in an orthopedic clinic.

Accounting is not so bad. As HS has said, there are old accountants, and while accounting is grinding and boring, the truth is that if you can add, subtract, divide, and multiply, you are smart enough to be an accountant.

I am an engineer and my mental profile is verbally skewed, as I scored 140 points higher on my SAT verbal than on my SAT math. Although it was a challenging four years, I wasn't overwhelmed, especially after I had finished the weed-out courses and had the chance to focus on the 'softer' areas (zoning and permitting, urban planning, contracting law) that interested me -- I certainly wasn't going to focus on the more quantitatively demanding areas like structural engineering or mechanics. However, if you cannot pass your pre-reqs with at least Bs and Cs (vector calculus, calculus-based physics, thermodynamics...), you will have a hard time.

Unlike many engineers, I love working with people, which, I suppose, helps smooth over any weaknesses I might have in more technical areas.

You could also try toughing it out through the weed out classes to get into your engineering program.

There is a lot of memorization in medicine, but it is not purely reliant on that because of the gray areas in diagnosis and treatment (which will always exist - new modalities just throw up new problems). There are points at which one must apply logic, but to get there, one needs a lot of background knowledge.

A career in medicine may not suit everyone who has already been out of college for a few years, especially if they still lack some of the premedical requirements. A postbacc premed course could take a couple of years. Following that would be a minimum of 7 years of training just to be a poorly compensated general practitioner. Since general practice doesn't suit everyone, a person considering medicine should really assume that he will spend 8-10 years in training. After training, it's not like one would start earning "big bucks" immediately. It takes time to build up a clinical practice. If part of a private group, it takes anywhere from 3-5 years (occasionally longer) to become an equity partner, and there may be large buy-ins to shoulder on top of the onerous medical school loans.

Peter—

Adam isn’t cheating because we’ve had no indication that he’s ever promised fidelity or that Hannah even thinks he’s only doing her. That’s what she wants but not what she thinks.

Whether he’s alpha or not is debatable. Yes he treats Hannah in an alpha asshole way but then Hannah is a 4. A real alpha or a lesser alpha wouldn’t stoop to having regular sex with a Hannah, and I’m not one who sets ridiculous keyboard standards to being alpha. Now if Hannah looked like Marnie, who I think is probably a low 8 when she wears makeup, or Jemma (7.5), then yeah. But he couldn’t treat Marnie quite as badly as he does Hannah and have her stick around. He’s actually too much of an asshole. It’s also not clear he’s got enough social finesse to be an alpha. The most alpha guy in the show so far was the guy in the first or second episode who was mocking the girls about being snobs about McDonalds. He’s at least a lesser alpha and very possibly an alpha. He was teasing his girl masterfully in a dead on alpha way and she was giggling and eating it up big time.

Your point about how feminists would react if male writers had written the bits of dialog where the other two girls in the office counsel Hannah to just live with their boss’s groping because he’s easy going and give big gifts was spot on. I was expecting outrage over that but haven’t heard it. Haven’t looked for it either though.

Nah Marnie’s bf is a classic middle beta. He’s not an omega. Too good looking for that and he also isn’t totally socially awkward. He’d be a greater beta if he wasn’t so pathetically a suck up girl follower.

am I the only one who thinks Hannah has a cute face? She would actually be kinda hot if she wasn't such a fat pig.

Doug1,

Hannah's boyfriend is a good example of a guy who is a middle range beta whose nice guy actions make him a lesser beta but good game could make him a greater beta.

He has some ability. Look close and he has probably some of the funniest lines in the show. But he's poisoned by a feminist upbringing and oneitis.

Breaking up with Marnie, especially in this way, is very good for him. He will probably go through a game phase where he thinks all women are whores, then maybe in five years become a more complete man.

Asdf--

I basically agree with you though I think Marnie's bf is a middle beta, who could easily be a greater beta or maybe possibly borderline to lesser alpha if he'd read Roissy, and accept him on game and feminism (though not necessary his other political stances - though realism in one area tends to beget it in others.)

More about the WAR for programming talent.
The greatest, most high profile career out there.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/10/opinion/trapani-brogrammer-culture/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

HBDers are a sad bunch. Your constant dwelling about your high IQ and High SAT scores is to delude yourself in beleiving that you're not a failure. Bringing up high SATs scores does not mean anything if you dont have status and are not making a lot of money. For many in the HBD community, exams scores are like telling Al Bundy Stories: You constantly bring up your scores because that is your glory days to make up for your failed life. If HBDers have faith, things would change for them. You can succeed if you are not able to see beyond your present conditions. Most HBDers would chalk up faith as something low IQ prole babble, but it works. All leaders, Alpha Males, Businessman have a strong sense of faith despite the many issues confronting them.

Whether or not history or art history is better than CS de facto, CS is better de jure.

America is NOT a meritocracy. Free market capitalism in general is NOT a meritocracy.

Intel is headed by an econ undergrad MBA. Only one scientist has ever headed Pfizer. Its current CEO is McDonald's former chief council. What a joke.

For those engineers and CS people who believe in the free market capitalist ideology I have no sympathy. You're being ripped off and you like it.

counsel

Dear "Nicolai Yezhov" !
You wrote
"Whether or not history or art history is better than CS de facto, CS is better de jure."

In what sense, in what respect, do you you mean one is "better" than the other ?
Prestige ? In what circle ?
Money ?

Your truly, Florida resident.

> America is NOT a meritocracy. Free market capitalism in general is NOT a meritocracy.

Tell that to all the software developers living in gated commmunities and driving BMWs, you imbecile.

"Now if Hannah looked like Marnie, who I think is probably a low 8 when she wears makeup, or Jemma (7.5)"

No way Jose, that girl Jemma is way too pudgy to be a 7.5. She's got a pretty face but nothing else going for her. This is VERY typical of twenty-something American girls.

By the time they're 20 or 21 most are already over the hill in terms of their physique. They've been to college and loaded up on alcohol and carbs. They refuse to lift weights. Many girls these days are already fat by 18 or 19. I see it all the time.

If you want thin, tight-bodied females you have to go for high school chicks. Girls in their twenties are extremely overrated by comparison. They've got nothing going for them besides makeup and expensive clothing. Their bodies are average and they're incredibly high maintenance compared to a hard-bodied 16 year old girl in the prime of her beauty. Meh, bleh.

Jemma's cynicism also detracts from her attractiveness; any youthful innocence and girlish naivety she may have once possessed are long gone.

Marnie is a 7, not an 8. She has a conventionally attractive face and is not overweight (though not fit or slim either). On the down side, she has a masculine air about her and a slightly mannish frame to match (tall and broad shouldered, look for it).

"For those engineers and CS people who believe in the free market capitalist ideology I have no sympathy. You're being ripped off and you like it."

Only we don't live under free market capitalism and haven't for a long time (if ever, arguably).

This is what the anti-capitalism crowd invariably fails to comprehend.

For instance, government-subsidized education? Where's the free market at work in that? Do you think the market for things like education and healthcare and housing and financial services and legal services would be identical if all present government involvement were to cease? No, of course not. It would be radically different.

Education was subsidized in the USSR as well.

@Otis -- if you're struggling this hard w/ an engineering undergrad, then you'll quickly fail as an engineer in the work place (that is if you can even get hired w/ poor grades). And, if you do get hired, your coworkers and bosses will quickly pick up the fact that you don't know what your doing; and you'll probably get laid off sooner rather than later.

I graduated Cum Laud in CS from a decent New England private college. I got hired as a software engineer right out of school by a large defense contractor at $30K per year (that was good money in 1986). Working as a software engineer was much more difficult than studying CS in college.

You should rethink your engineering degree and maybe change to nursing or accounting.

It's probably too late for an MD or DO degree for Otis. He's already working on his second Bachelors degree, so he's probably, what, 25 years old now. A switch to a post-bac pre-med degree and all the medical pre-reqs will probably take him three solid years, plus a year getting accepted into such a program, would put him at about 30 years old just starting medical school. And that's assuming he could score high enough on the MCAT to get accepted. Even if he did make a good MCAT score it'll be very difficult for him to get into a medical school; the limited number of slots and his age will work against him.

A med student here. There's plenty of medical students in my top tier medical school who are about 30, so age shouldn't be a big issue. I think a bigger problem is Otis's grades.

Medicine is quite different from engineering. As was pointed out earlier, medicine is more of a pattern recognition field.

RandomMedStudent,

Even if a 30 year-old guy can get into medical school, why would he want to? He wouldn't finish training until around his late 30's or early 40's. And given health care reform, he wouldn't be making the kind of money in practice that his predecessors did, but he would still have the crushing loans to repay. Not to mention that he would have to endure the miseries of residency (sleep deprivation and poor treatment from patients, nurses and attendings) when he is a decade older than his peers. Why would anyone subject himself to that?

"that girl Jemma is way too pudgy to be a 7.5. She's got a pretty face but nothing else going for her. This is VERY typical of twenty-something American girls"

She's not American.

Nebbish,

You are right that medical training is a long and an arduous process. I was not suggesting that Otis jump in - I was just pointing out that people do sometimes begin training at 30.

I think your view that health care reform will slash salaries is widely shared but not necessarily what will happen. The AMA has clearly supported universal health insurance, because in the current form of Obamacare, people will be FORCED to purchase health insurance. Sure, there will be more oversight and more cost control, but believe me that will be ways to go around the system.

As for residency sucking, it is largely true but there's a lot of variation. It really depends on the program and the specialty. Not all residencies are torturous, and medical students increasingly voting with their feet to place themselves in more life-style friendly residencies and specialties.

"She's not American."

Eh, she's from the Anglosphere. It's the same deal in UK/AUS/CAN/NZ.

Jemma is no higher than a 6. All of the girls on the show except for the little Jewish one are fat/out of shape.

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