Prenatal Nondiscrimination Act

This has to be one of the dumbest laws ever considered by Congress.

This law is unenforceable. As long as the mother isn’t stupid enough to tell her doctor the true reason for getting an abortion, then she still gets to have one. This might prevent some really stupid woman from getting an abortion, but that’s exactly the type of woman who shouldn’t be reproducing anyway.

Aslo, let’s mock the name. Republicans, in choosing that name, have obviously bought into the left-wing propaganda that discrimination is the second-most evil thing in the world after racism.

I wish Republicans would focus on real issues, like doing something to head off the future student loan crisis. Or maybe even doing something to limit immigration.

Comments

[Gilbert]

"As long as the mother isn’t stupid enough to tell her doctor the true reason for getting an abortion, then she still gets to have one. This might prevent some really stupid woman from getting an abortion, but that’s exactly the type of woman who shouldn’t be reproducing anyway."

Uhhh... so they WILL be reproducing, if they can't get an abortion.

[jeanne]

It's just election-year grandstanding for the religious right. No harm, no gain, except for the perceived insult to Asian immigrants. Oh well!

[Anonymous]

You're way off, this is one of the best things GOP has done in a long time.

The liberals look like complete morons trying to defend killing babies based on their gender.

[Dan]

Half - gotta disagree with you there. Matter of fact, I think this is one of your most wrong posts.

Sex-selective abortion is by an enormous margin the most f-ed up thing about East Asia and India. Its sick on a case-by-case basis but its also sick on a societal level because you have these utterly messed up societies with hundreds of millions more males than females.

I agree that the problem is not going to instantly fixed by a law that you can get around, but laws matter a lot. Laws educate and impact culture. They strongly help set norms. Cousin marriage was outlawed in the west when it was common. Now it rare, but the norm elsewhere in the world where such laws have never been made.

This f-ed up thing happening here needs to be nipped in the bud. Its otherwise only going to grow with growing Asian populations and maybe even catch on among the broader culture.

Although I agree that the name is dumb. How about the Female Feticide Prevention Act?

[Dan]

Half, something like 77% of the US population supports this law.

In this instance you are on the very hard left of the spectrum.

[av]

Republicans won't focus on the real issues because they're unthinkingly committed to liberalism. Because right-liberalism is inherently contradictory the attempt to achieve right-wing ends such limiting abortion by the left-wing means of banning sex-bias and race-bias abortions is doomed to failure.

The same failure can be seen in Republican attempts to prove they're not racist because of commitments to procedural equality.

[Steve]

Exactly HS. What an irresponsible waste of time this is.

[Turambar]

"This has to be one of the dumbest laws"

Not while the sugar Nazi's are on the prowl.

[Bartholemew]

half,
i believe that we should step back and look at the data before taking a stand one way or the other on the issue of sex selective abortions.

i may be mistaken here, but i think that the people on this blog as a group are in favor of traditionalism here in the united states and also in favor of an increase in the average iq of the american citizenry over time

does a united states population with dramatically more high iq asian males and dramatically fewer asian females advance the interests of traditionalism and does it advance the interests of raising the iq of the usa ?

[Dr. Anonymous]

Actually this is troubling since Republicans were always suppose to support less government intervention in our lives. This is the first step in having more government oversight in reproduction and it is a slippery slope from there. Eventually government will start issuing permits and quotas based on the sex ratio.

Additionally, once abortion is repealed and banned the ratio of bastard births of NAMs and illegal immigrants should skyrocket. Further leading to crime, poverty and growth of the welfare tumor.

[not too late]

"As long as the mother isn’t stupid enough to tell her doctor the true reason for getting an abortion, then she still gets to have one."

Uh huh, but she will be having it in a nasty abortion clinic rather than a first class hospital. No sane doc is going to risk his license for this BS even if he agrees with it. Very few doctors even do abortions.

[RandyB]

On your last paragraph -- I call my political outlook "paleo-Republican." Gerald Ford. Dwight Eisenhower. Nixon without the personal issues. Reagan without the insincere speechifying to the Religious Right.

[Dan]

I used to derive a sense of American superiority re asian nations on this.

"For all the problems we have, at least we don't have sex selective abortion against girl fetuses in the US of A!"

crap.

[Bill]

Laws like this will seem quaint when technology enables people to basically create designer babies.

[TangoMan]

"This has to be one of the dumbest laws ever considered by Congress."
------

On the contrary, this has little to do with governance and everything to do with political gamesmanship.

The best historical parallel is the LBJ pig fucker gambit:

"When Lyndon Johnson ran for Congress, legend says, he wanted to spread the rumor that his opponent was a pig-fucker. Johnson's campaign manager said, "Lyndon, you know he doesn't do that!" Johnson replied, "I know. I just want to make him deny it."

The liberals are going on and on about the Republican War on Women so these guys turn the tables on them - "We Republicans want to stop liberals from killing baby girls and so let's put the issue to a vote" Lo and behold, liberals are now forced to stand up and declare that a law to prevent the snuffing out of baby girls doesn't deserve the support of liberals.

[Felix]

This law is good and necessary, and I just have three words: more Asian girls. Asian American males have yet to justify their presence in this country and all the professional jobs (read: zero sum) they take up by creating national wealth or scientific breakthroughs. Asian females on the other hand definitely, uhh...increase the wealth of the nation and thus if anything, Asian Americans should be having more daughters and fewer sons.

[RandomMedStudent]

How do Asian females increase the wealth of the nation?

[EdAngerJr]

Like HS said, how can this law be enforced? It can't be. It's bad posturing because no one buys it. It's a sop to people who already don't like abortion so they can pretend like they care about equal rights for women.

That said, aborting and killing girl babies is wack -
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/01/16/it%E2%80%99s-a-girl-the-three-deadliest-words-in-the-world/

[Kaz]

How often does this phenomena carry into America? I think they're overblowing this whole thing and making an embarrassment of the Asian community while doing it.

Just because a couple of Asian women want to go for the victim cash grab..

[Jimmi]

The Republicans know it is useless, but it will score a strategic victory for them because the Democrats would be forced to vote against it. Anyway, selective abortion is rare in the US. It is an issue in China only after one child policy was implemented, and in India, where poor parents couldn't afford their daughter's dowry .

[JayMan]

That's because today's Republican party is filled with idiots. I've known that for some time.

In fact, I just wrote a blog post about that very fact:

http://jayman.blog.com/2012/06/01/liberalism-hbd-population-and-solutions-for-the-future/

[rjarnold]

This is a stupid law for many reasons. Sex-selective abortion is not that common in the U.S. There is not a notable gender gap in any demographic and according to the 2000 Census, there were more Asian American females than males.

[Nope.]

They probably called it the non-discrimination act so dems were more likely to pass it.

[Jack]

this was strategy. Almost all americans support this ban, and it forces Democrats into a corner defending their left-wing feminist base. Now, all Democrats will need to account for their vote against this ban, and will STFU about their madeup war on women. It was never designed to "pass".

[IHTG]

"How do Asian females increase the wealth of the nation?"

By birthing the children of white nerds.

[Douglas Knight]

"obviously bought into the left-wing propaganda that discrimination is the second-most evil thing"

No, it's not at all obvious. Here are some other hypotheses on why they chose the word: to appeal to the left; to make it hard for the left to object.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"By birthing the children of white nerds."

1) That's not a benefit because Eurasian hybrids don't appear to have much apptitude in STEM or come across as especially intelligent. American STEM courses are filled with recent Asian immigrants, not Eurasian hybrids or third generation Asian Americans.

2) Most white nerds end up marrying white women. Not the hottest white women, but they can usually find a couple of white women to date before marrying one of them just because there are so many white women.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"does a united states population with dramatically more high iq asian males and dramatically fewer asian females advance the interests of traditionalism and does it advance the interests of raising the iq of the usa ?"

Culture & Civilization = How the abilities of a country's population are organized and utilized.

Race = A continental scale population with unique psychological abilities and characteristics that make them more suitable for some cultures than others.

American immigration policy should be whites only because Western civilization was built to use white psychological characteristics, not non-whites.

IQ isn't the only psychological trait that should be measured when determining immigration policy. It's also necessary for immigrants to have other cognitive traits that overlap with white Americans in order for whites to have neighborhoods where they will like to socialize and maintain. Because white Americans (and Europeans) will always prefer to socialize more with white people than Asian people, Asians should not be allowed to immigrate.

Whatever economic benefit Asians bring to the US economy can also be attained with white immigrants.

However, Asians can't replace the social and cultural foundatations of America that were designed for white social traits. Asians don't participate in group sports, attend religious services (which many secular white elites still attend because it's a good way for their children to meet good marriage partners), they don't engage in community activities like white people do, or have to many hobbies in common with whites.

And this isn't because the Asians are necessarily trying to harm America, but because their cognitive/psychological profile prevents them from assimilating into Western culture as smoothly as European immigrants have.

[m]

First Anon is correct: makes the Dems look like the hypocrits they are, pretending to care about women and girls.

Look, I don't want to overturn R v. W but if you look at the turn of events over the years, you see that the religious right has been right about abortion: it HAS reached the stage where people can get abortions in the 3rd trimester when babies are viable, and Obama purposefully chose a governor, K. Sebelius, a person who enthusiastically support that, to be his HHS Secretary.

A baby can be the length of birth canal away from being born a healthy baby and still the feminists think it okay to kill it. It's maniacal.

[Man Mountain Molehill]

I vote Republican because I want low taxes, limited government and strong defense. What do I get?
Flag burning amendments, creationism and school prayer. And now this nonsense.

We are the bokest nation in history. How about focusing on the economy, doods?

[Richard]

OT, but what about Zimmerman being back in jail? Turns out he got caught because him and his wife are simply proles who aren't very smart.

"The motion shows that Shelley Zimmerman testified on April 20 that she didn't know how much money was raised through Zimmerman's paypal donations, and "to [her] knowledge" they wouldn't be able to afford a bond payment. In transcripts from recorded conversations that took place while George was still in jail a week before, George instructs Shelley to go to the bank and take control of his account. In another call, Shelley is at the bank and the teller takes the phone to get a security code from George so he could authorize Shelley's control of the account. Shelley even says at one point, "Not going to say any personal information since it's recorded." It does appear that the Zimmermans did speak in some kind of "code," like the prosectors said yesterday. Bank statements show the family had access to $135,000 in cash on the day before the bond hearing, but their conversations never speak in denominations over $100. "

Why did they try to hide this? If he wasn't going to run, you get the bond many back anyway, right? So why bother lying about this?

Also, did he think he could possibly get away with it? If he doesn't get convicted, he's set for life anyway. People will pay millions to hear his story and if he has difficulties I'm sure a lot of right wingers will be happy to help him out as a victim of a left wing lynching.

None of Zimmerman's actions here make any sense. The only explanation is that he's a prole with an IQ of 95 or so.

[lincolnty]

I would answer, yes, the interests of the USA are served by allowing all of the Asians living in the USA to abort their females.

Here is why. Asian males living in the USA will have to compete hard for the very limited supply of Asian females here in the USA.

Since I am a strong believer in "value transference" I have to note that very few asian males work in the value transference professions. Most Asian males actually create value.

Asian females generally choose which Asian males to marry on the basis mainly of income. Ie the Asian males with the highest income tend to be able to attract Asian females and the Asian males with low incomes don't

So you have a system where a large number of Asian males will work as hard as they can to earn the highest possible income in order to attract one of the small number of Asian females. This means Asian males actually creating more value and paying more income taxes.

The harder the Asian males have to compete the more they will contribute to society

So sex selective abortions are good for value creation

[JayMan]

I will add that I will edit my blog post to include a link to this one, as this demonstrates my point about today's Republicans so elegantly.

[John]

"'By birthing the children of white nerds.'

1) That's not a benefit because Eurasian hybrids don't appear to have much apptitude in STEM or come across as especially intelligent. American STEM courses are filled with recent Asian immigrants, not Eurasian hybrids or third generation Asian Americans."

I'd bet that the typical child of a white nerd and an Asian woman is more intelligent than average, particularly at math.

"2) Most white nerds end up marrying white women. Not the hottest white women, but they can usually find a couple of white women to date before marrying one of them just because there are so many white women."

True, but increasing the supply of women makes men better off. Some nerds will marry an Asian woman, while others will get a higher quality white woman then they would have otherwise.

I'll also throw out my opinion that half white-half Asian women are often smoking hot.

[IHTG]

"That's not a benefit because Eurasian hybrids don't appear to have much apptitude in STEM or come across as especially intelligent."

Maybe not, but hybrids who are children of nerds probably do inherit their dad's smarts.

"American STEM courses are filled with recent Asian immigrants, not Eurasian hybrids or third generation Asian Americans."

Not sure if there are enough Eurasians in the US yet to "fill" anything.

[Blank]

Sig, check this out:

Interracial affair with black guy ends marriage between UK's two most powerful Jewish families, the Rothdchilds and the Goldsmiths:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2153789/Rothschild-heiresss-marriage-Goldsmith-scion--falls-rapper-called-Jay-Electronica.html

[Bill]

However, Asians can't replace the social and cultural foundatations of America that were designed for white social traits. Asians don't participate in group sports, attend religious services (which many secular white elites still attend because it's a good way for their children to meet good marriage partners), they don't engage in community activities like white people do, or have to many hobbies in common with whites.

-

I don't buy that Asian immigrants couldn't support "Western Civilization" because they aren't white.

Religion and civic participation aren't white-exclusive genetic traits. Northern Europe one of the least religious places on Earth. East Asia too, but consider 43% of South Koreans have embraced Christianity.

Eastern Europe is not terribly civic minded. By contrast did you see Japan after Fukishima?

China, unfortunately, seems quite clannish and materialistic but it's basically a multi-ethnic society barely held together by an oppressive state and the promise of economic growth. Sounds kind of familiar.

[not too late]

"That's because today's Republican party is filled with idiots. I've known that for some time."

True, but they are cheaper to maintain than the idiots that the Democrat party is filled with.

[jewamongyou]

If they'd simply bar immigration from countries where sex-based abortion is common (or limit it only to females) then this would help protect our society from lopsided gender ratios.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"I'd bet that the typical child of a white nerd and an Asian woman is more intelligent than average, particularly at math."

Their IQ should only be 101.5 - 102.5 (depending whether Asian IQ is 103 or 105).

And I've met many Eurasians in college and they don't seem to be very scientifically oriented or prone to major in STEM.

"I'll also throw out my opinion that half white-half Asian women are often smoking hot."

They're not hideous, but they're definitely less attractive than fully white girls. For one, Eurasian girls have fewer curves because they inherited the small (almost non-existent) Asian woman breast size.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Maybe not, but hybrids who are children of nerds probably do inherit their dad's smarts."

I haven't seen much evidence for Eurasian mathematical/scientific aptitude at college and if you look at pictures of STEM students, you'll see the Asian students typically are fully Asian, not mixed European.

Third generation Asians also become less academically dynamic because they study less than first and second generation immigrants.

There's no reason to believe hybridization of animal biological organism brings about a synergistic effect in terms of traits.

It's possible European and Asian cognitive traits don't synergize because they operate in different ways that don't make for an impressive match.

"Not sure if there are enough Eurasians in the US yet to "fill" anything."

The ones I knew didn't even major in STEM much or study all that hard. Anecdotal, yes, but so far they haven't accomplished much in the hard sciences.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"I don't buy that Asian immigrants couldn't support "Western Civilization" because they aren't white."

They won't and never will assimilate into Western culture and society as well as white immigrants can and do because Western culture was designed to use white psychological abilities.

They were adapted for a different social environment than European peoples were, and that is why Western culture depends on the white race, not the Asian race.

Psychological profiles are why whites have to move when there are too many Asians in their neighborhood. Asians aren't funny like white people, they aren't as creative, they aren't as individualistic, they aren't as interested in the outdoors, they as interested in or tend to play the same sports, and on and on. This is isn't an intentional fault on the part of the Asians, it's just that there is a limit to how many Asians most white people can stand to socialize with without changing their neighborhoods culture. There's no real way to change this situation because socialization depends on hardwired psychological profiles that can't be changed too much.

EUROPEAN immigrants, on the other hand, don't force white people out of their neighborhoods because European immigrants have cognitive profiles that make them inherently more adapted to a Western nation like America.

Because whites assimilate the best, 100% of all immigration spots should be reserved for white immigrants, not as a matter of malice but as a matter of efficiency and pragmatism.

Whites need to be able to socialize with other white people who share a common set of mental abilities in order for whites to maintain Western culture.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Interracial affair with black guy ends marriage between UK's two most powerful Jewish families, the Rothdchilds and the Goldsmiths:"

I don't know about the Goldsmiths, but the Rothschilds are no longer ethnically Jewish in any meaningful way aside from their last names. Genetically, the Rothschild are Anglo-Saxon. Look up pictures of the Rothschild members and they almost all look like they could be immediate relatives of Kate Middleton.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Religion and civic participation aren't white-exclusive genetic traits."

Asians participate in different ways than whites do because they evolved differing social abilities. How often do Asian immigrants (even third generation) participate in community service activities like whites do?

"Northern Europe one of the least religious places on Earth."

Northern Europe is still culturally Christian in terms of its mindset and morality (the Enlightenment is, in many ways, Christianity sans Christ).

"Eastern Europe is not terribly civic minded."

Depends where in Eastern Europe you look. Central European states like the Czech Republic are civic minded. So too are the Balts.

Russians aren't very civic minded, but there's no inherent reason why Russians couldn't become civic minded because Slavs (especially Russians) have a substantial amount of genetic input from Scandinavia, one of the most civic minded regions on earth. Russia's culture just hasn't been conducive to bringing out this characteristic because it's been subjected to too many wars and political chaos (even centuries before the Communist era and WWII when Russia was invaded by Mongols).

"China, unfortunately, seems quite clannish and materialistic but it's basically a multi-ethnic society"

90% of China is Han Chinese. It's a homogenous state with some minorities thrown into some provinces.

[RandomMedStudent]

There are plenty of Asians in the lower ranks of "value transferance" fields (investment banking, corporate law), just not as much as in computer science or medical school. They are largely absent from management roles in value transferance fields, mostly because there just aren't that many American-raised Asians middle aged or older, but probably also due to somewhat lower social skills and weaker social connections.

[fg;lkfsjl]

Half,

in this discussion you should distinguish between the high IQ betas and the low IQ betas.

Looking only at males from the traditional founding stock of the United States (Northeast European males) you can distinguish real differences in their focus.

The highest IQ founding stock male betas find themselves in competition with Ashkenazi males.

The lowest IQ founding stock male betas find themselves in competition with black males

Putting it another way, low IQ HBD aware betas are focused on denigrating blacks while the highest IQ HBD aware betas are focused on espousing their anti semetic viewpoint.

The issue of sex selective abortion is a hot button for only the higher IQ betas. Higher IQ betas imagine that they will get access to Asian females if they are not aborted.

The lower IQ betas understand that they won't be given access to these females and thus don't care either way about the issue

[PGT]

"True, but they are cheaper to maintain than the idiots that the Democrat party is filled with."

Less violent and better looking too.

[nebbish]

fg;lkfsjl,

An individual high IQ founding stock beta male is in competition with all other high IQ beta males in his geographical location including others of founding stock, white ethnics (Irish, Germans, Italians, Slavs) and potentially Ashkenazi beta males. Ashkenazi beta males make up less than 1% of the U.S. population (high IQ ones would be even rarer) and are found in abundance only in big cities like New York and Los Angeles and their surrounding suburbs. Flyover country high IQ beta males aren't likely to encounter them often. Moreover, Ashkenazi females also marry out. So if you're a founding stock high IQ beta concerned about competition from Ashkenazi betas, consider trying Ashkenazi females.

[nebbish]

TUJ,

Some of the Rotschilds are still ethnically Jewish. The head of the British Rothschild bank, Sir Evelyn de Rothschild, is fully Jewish. Kate Rothschild is one-quarter Jewish. Her mother is a Guiness, and her Rothschild father's mother was of British/German ancestry. Ben Goldsmith, her soon-to-be ex-husband is also one-quarter Jewish. His father, James Goldsmith, was half-Jewish and half-French. His mother, nee Annabelle Vane-Tempest-Stewart, is the sister of the Marquess of Londonderry.

[Bill]

@The Undiscovered Jew

Good you brought up Russia. You could push a cultural explanation of Russia... or you could use an HBD argument. Russians have never achieved democracy, nor are they close. 20+ years after the Cold War it is crony-capitalist, authoritarian, corrupt, cynical (suicidal even), and generally un-civic. There is probably more individualism thrown in compared to say... Japan, but does it matter? Looking closely Japanese are far closer to Scandinavian societal norms and outcomes (income, mild-mannered attitudes, general civic behavior, emphasis of quality of life over wealth, agnostic but not atheist views of religion, even lack of inventiveness compared to the rest of Europe) than Russians.

It's possible that under a Western European-style government Russians would less governable, while Japanese would be what--less entertaining at parties? Other than the assertion of "genetic input from Scandinavia" which has never manifested in Russian behavior, why do you present a cultural explanation for Russian un-Westernness and a genetic determinist explanation for Asian un-Westernness? I'm not denying that Asians are not distinct from Westerners, just that there are Asian countries than could clearly support European norms more than certain "white" populations could.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

Sigma, could you please drop comment moderation if you're going to be this slow to post comments?

[IHTG]

TUJ: Both Ben and Kate are 25% Jewish.

[Blank]

@TUJ

Why do you hate Asians so?

[JayMan]

There's no comparing Western Europe with Eastern Europe. (http://jayman.blog.com/2012/04/28/an-hbd-summary-of-the-foundations-of-modern-civilization/, http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.fr/2012/03/tsar-is-far.html) Each has had a different history, and different selective pressures and behave quite differently today with respect to civic mindedness.

As well, really, the problems with East Asians aren't E. Asians in general, but apparently, the Chinese. The Japanese don't seem to exhibit the clannishness that the Chinese do, and adapt much more readily to Western culture. Of course, they also don't seem to want to emigrate to America, so there you go.