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June 14, 2012

Comments

Some believe that doing meanile work will:
1) Make one humble
2) Bring one closer to "the people"

I believe the opposite. My meanial part time job in high school taught me:

1) Meanial jobs are really easy, its just the pay that sucks

2) Proles are retarded fuck ups who deserve everything they get

Kind of like how I wasn't racist until I graduated and actually met minorities, then realized how fucked up they are.

To be honest WoW or Starcraft is probably better training for an upper-class career than menial labor. There's a little bit more responsibility and subservience learned in the latter, which is useful to a successful job (subservience less importance the higher skilled the job though). But WoW teaches you social coordination, long-term planning, strategic thinking, and organization

I think that after doing some menial jobs, you will be much more diligent and uncomplaining if/when a good job comes your way. I've been grateful my whole career since then!

Charles Murray convinced me that a big problem today is that so many people have a really thick bubble with no connection to people outside their class.

A few weeks in a pizza joint around low-future-orientation coworkers will convince most people that societal norms and law and order are very important. Certain people *need* a lot of rules and structure.

"Some believe that doing meanile work will:
1) Make one humble
2) Bring one closer to the 'people'"

It sounds like you are a little misled, asdf. Most people today have a god awful work ethic.

"1) Meanial jobs are really easy, its just the pay that sucks"

Once again, your poor work ethic is what causes many of the problems. You've also misspelled Menial, which strictly means an unskilled and easy job such as spelling words correctly.

"2) Proles are retarded fuck ups who deserve everything they get"

Perhaps, but then again the country consisted almost completely of proles before the second world war with a small percentage of almost indistinguishable middle class. Also, any idiot can be admitted into a mediocre college and get a crappy desk job. It can take a lot of skill and risk for a "High Prole" job.

"Kind of like how I wasn't racist until I graduated and actually met minorities, then realized how fucked up they are."

Now I feel you are just a troll. There are plenty of whites that are demented, trashy, and moronic. The United states isn't a land equal opportunity and the disparity will increase with time. Minorities don't commit crimes simply because they are minorities. It all depends on background, morals and attitude (which frankly, your attitude is awful).

The best place to learn job skills is on a job! Duh.

Schools certainly don't teach job skills. What are these unemployed teenagers doing over the summer, anyway?

What would you have them do? Take courses or something?

My parents were obsessed with having me do menial jobs so I would develop a "strong work ethic" and "learn the value of a dollar." Unfortunately, all those jobs really do is condition you to take on shit projects without complaining. I was five years into my career before I realized I was spending all my time doing projects that needed to be done but that would never enhance my skills such that I could advance in my company.

5. Hardly anyone white shops retail anymore. In the past, lots of teens got summer jobs at Macy's or the like.

[HS: I was at Pottery Barn on Sunday, and the majority of the shoppers seemed white to me.]

Thank god for piggy and all those links he provides. We'd have to find all that stuff on our own.

Bob Jones -> I can come to the defense of asdf here. I know it sounds over-the-top, difficult to believe or arrogant, but it's true: "proles" and "menial laborers" are, overwhelmingly, stupid brutes. They totally deserve to work as slaves. Of course there are exceptions here and there (the occasional high-IQ dude who could not get a better job), but we're talking averages.

They are not unhappy beings engaged in a class struggle and deserving pity and compassion. The liberal media lies.

If you feel you have egalitarian, romanticist or liberal impulses, go into contact with the individuals you idealize: you'll soon become again a racist right-winger.

One of the few areas where seasonal work is still the norm is local government. City parks and public works departments, along with county and state parks and forests, hire many of their empoyees on a seasonal basis, and pay relatively well. It's a foot in the door for a career with decent pay and good benefits. It's also notably white, especially compared to private equivalents such as landscaping and construction.

Lower class families need the money.

Even for a middle-class family, having the 17 year old work in the summer can make a significant difference in family finances.

For upper-middle class families, the summer job is one of the few things that gets you out of Charles Murray's "bubble".

Upper class families can line their kids up with a cushy internship, which will teach the kids job/social skills.

At the core of liberalism (which is Christianity without Jesus) is the emotional belief that people low on the social ladder (poor people, blacks, women...) are morally superior to people high on the social ladder: cooler, more respectable, more deserving of empathy, with more "soul", etc.

Once you realize (and you need real-life experience: books are not enough) that this belief is wrong, i.e. that a rich man can be more respectable than a poor man, you become immune to liberalism.

I know we are doomed when I read comments such as "Fetzen's" that don't offer the opinion that teenage work is overrated but, instead, offers the opinion that so-called "menial" work is punishment for low-lifes that deserve it.

What rubbish.

I think "menial" work is worthwhile... not only is it a way out of Murray's bubble but it teaches (to those willing to learn) the need to respect other people (don't piss on the bathroom sink at Burger King) as well as the reward that comes from hard work (I was promoted to a management position at McD's when I was 17 back in the 70s - that hard work led not only to a raise but the responsibility that comes with keys and hire/fire authority and lessons learned from same).

Also, there are people that are not capable of high-skill work. I'd much rather them work in low-skill jobs than to languish on welfare with little better to do than cause trouble. Making an effort to pay one's own way through honest work is worthy of respect.

I see too many people who treat the menials as beneath them... I hold these people as beneath contempt. I have way more respect for the guys that collect my garbage and tend my lawn.

In response to Fetzen, many proles I have seen are people deserving of pity. I've seen a large amount of elderly people and disabled people working low level jobs. The fact is, prole is a very general term that seems to have been warped from people that are working class to poor trashy people that are committed to causing trouble and have no goals. That being said, there's a massive difference between an aircraft mechanic (or even an engineer in some cases) and an urban poor person that might work in fast-food.

If there is anything I am really worried about, it is the basic lack of morals and complete dependency that most people have. I'm sure that within time, the children of most middles will likely become proles. Also, our society doesn't hand out awards for intelligence. It is a sad fact that we give millions of dollars people that are not only undeserving, but classless. It is most upsetting when the media portrays such poor behavior and ethics as socially acceptable.

Two more reasons there are fewer summer jobs -- outsourcing and minimum wage.

Fetzen: "At the core of liberalism ..."

No, that's not it. The core of liberalism, before about 1990, was that people who start out at the lower end of the spectrum are excused from making an effort. That's why blacks speak their own language. Since then, it has added an even more pernicious element, which is that youth alone confers value, which is why today's kids will crumble or act out if they're told they did something wrong. How this relates to the existence of the summer job I'm not sure. In the '70's, just about the best summer job you could have in San Francisco was working at a canning plant (big wages), but those plants disappeared somewhere in the '80's.

"And teens often don’t take their jobs seriously anyway." - Good behavior of this type doesn't spring up out of the ground, without youth employment it doesn't necessarily form in the first place. the bls data shows american born hispanics actually faring the worst against immigrant labor.

"What’s the value of teens doing menial work when they should be acquiring real job skills" - building Good work behavior, building social networks and resumes, and most importantly, not having the cheap labor here and all of its assorted failings.

My theory is that you started out with the proposition that Mexicans = bad, and came up with various explanations for the decline in summer jobs that would support your proposition.

Bob Jones,

Most proles are drugged out semi-retards who have a hard time showing up on time for a shift and making it thru said shift sober. Your average prole lasted about two-three months at my job, then got fired and went to work some other low wage job in the mall where they fucked up just as bad. They are rude, liars, and entirely unreliable human beings.

One doesn't really learn anything at a menial job. It's a mind killer. One would learn more useful things reading for fun, or develop ones body better going to the gym. Even socializing with other right side of the bell curve people would be better in terms of teaching extroversion and future networking skills. I worked those jobs because I had to, but I would not wish it on my own kids.

Half, isn't it interesting that in Manhattan proximity to subway stations doesn't lead to violent attacks by nams but in other cities it does. in chicago "Youths" take the red line to the water tower place station and exit that station. From there it is just a three block walk to Streeterville to do their attacks. in atlanta once they built a subway stop to buckhead the attacks started. buckhead used to be the fanciest shopping in the south.

Kind of the equivalent of having a subway stop right at rodeo drive in los angeles. There is something of a civil war going on in Los Angeles right now between two groups of wealthy liberals. Those that live in Beverly Hills are fighting as hard as they can to prevent the subway from opening up in Beverly Hills. While transit oriented liberals are fighting to have them open the station in beverly hills. Interesting times for those in Los Angeles.

Of course if they do build the station in beverly hills it will of course play out exactly like streeterville or buckhead

subway stops lead to attacks in most cities but not in nyc, in nyc for example area around lexington avenue subway stops are not dangerous

What people are realizing is how much life is built on status, on where we fall on the social hierarchy. That's what matters.

"Minorities don't commit crimes simply because they are minorities. It all depends on background, morals and attitude (which frankly, your attitude is awful)."

You are a clueless fuck. That is all...

I agree with asdf. My parents owned a fast food business once and the prole employees were mostly bad. The same goes for the teenagers. Full of entitlement, bad work ethic, constantly stole, some of the worst pieces of shit I've come across. Where as the best employees were immigrants (mostly Mexicans). They worked hard, took pride in everything they did, and were grateful to even have a job. I can understand why businessmen support mass immigration. I don't agree but I can understand.

@ wencil

NYC was a crime ridden hell hole in the 70's, 80's, and early 90's. The subway was a very dangerous place. The city was on the verge of becoming another Detroit. It was only a tough on crime, anti-welfare, anti-NAM, mayor like Giuliani who saved it.

When I was young, my father's friend opened a restaurant with her retirement money and I worked for her over the summers. While the money was nice, I wouldn't recommend that today's youth take on low-wage jobs.

Their time would be better spent identifying a service they can provide for people and learning entrepreneurial skills. Low-class kids would especially benefit from this approach. All working at McDonald's over the summer will do for them is teach them to have a slave mentality that will limit their opportunities in life.

"he emotional belief that people low on the social ladder (poor people, blacks, women...) are morally superior to people high on the social ladder: cooler, more respectable, more deserving of empathy, with more 'soul', etc."

And more authentic. I basically agree, although I'm not sure I would use the phrase "social ladder."

One thing I've noticed about Leftists is that in any conflict between first world people and third world people, they always take the side of the less advanced people, if they take a side at all.

Perhaps the most stunning example of this is gay activists who side with the Arabs in the Arab/Israeli conflict. Given that Arabs treat gays terribly; and given that Israel is extremely tolerant of gays, you would think that gay activists would come out differently.


There is still a lot of Summer based demand:

1. Much employment exists because it is summer- camp counselors, youth coaching, tutoring, life guard.

2. Some of it becomes available because of summer conditions- lawn service, painting, window washing, various outdoor maintenance.

3. Summer driven activity- more ice cream sold, hot dog stands being crowded, baseball stadiums full, parks active, more night activity because things are open late.

4. Staffing. I got my second summer job just to cover people rotating out for their vacations or others just leaving entirely to do some summer activity.

----

I like typical clueless Jezebel analysis:
"Some kids are simply too busy doing things like taking classes or going to camp or frantically volunteering in an effort to beef up their resumes and get into college."

Yes that's why the black teen unemployment rate is so high- they are busy volunteering.

I suggest that a lot of these commenters worried that taking on menial work will give teens a slave mentality. The popular culture itself gives children the sense that they are minor deities. To know the value of labor at the most basic level is an important insight for building leadership in industry.

I currently changed engineering jobs to a company that ACTUALLY makes something important (whereas my previous employer sold rainbows and unicorns). It is clear that the level of humility and respect for the lowest worker is more common in this type of industry.

My previous employer promoted so many mediocrities and and had a lot of made up titles to make people feel important. I am realizing what BS it all was now that I actually make something real.

I agree with asdf that: They are rude, liars, and entirely unreliable human beings. And I add lazy and generally worthless.

tisket, Firepower, and Turambar - nice.

Two reasons:

For about 10-15 years, when times were good, teens didn't want the jobs so the jobs that were essentially fake jobs, "created" jobs, for their own kids were discontinued and now that times are more difficult they don't exist any anymore for others.

Being we are in severe recession and the fact that many of the teens' summer jobs were just fake jobs that were created to give a kids an hour or two of work for six to eight hours pay, these tasks are now being completed by existing employees cutting the additional wage expense out.

The parts of Brooklyn that White People Like:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303734204577466912130264168.html?mod=WSJ_NY_MIDDLELEADNewsCollection

Bed-frickin'-Stuy?!? Who would have thunk it.

Lots of empathy and social intelligence on display in the comments here. Nice work, folks.

There are a lot of costs to the last years of high school: class pictures, yearbook, class rings, prom, driver's license, first dates, graduation parties... That's what summer (or year round part time) jobs are for.

Someone mentioned that upper middle class families set their kids up with cushy internships instead of menial labor.

I can attest to that.

I was raised in an upper middle class household. In high school, a great faction of my friends were getting summer jobs foolishly thinking they would be beneficial to them in the future. I knew I would be bored at a summer job, so I pulled some strings and got myself an internship in the field of genetics (which, coincidentally, is how I found out about HBD).

My internship helped me land a well-paying college job in a biotech lab, whilst most of my menial-favoring friends found themselves relying solely on student loans.

Showing up on time and not being an asshole to the customers are the sort of job skills which are useful at almost all levels, and which are more easily learned at a summer job than in school.

It's also worth mentioning that child labor laws are so restrictive now that it's hardly worth hiring anyone under 18 anymore. They are not allowed to work except between 7AM and 7PM (9PM in the summer), which means they can't close at a restaurant that serves dinner or open one that serves breakfast, which means they're useless. Restaurants used to be the main employer of teenagers. No way a teen could work the jobs I had when I was a teen, which are at places that are still in business and which I know for a fact use Mexicans instead now.

For people who aren't plugged in socially to the good stuff and are capable of paying attention, the summer job is an opportunity to get a little cash and get used to the world of work.

Both are valuable.

The loss of this means we have a fair chance where many kids 18-22 have no work experience to speak off which is bad for employers and workers alike.

It also slows kids from getting adult trappings like a car and an apartment which again hurts the economy.

However we had better get used to it, the jobs loss will be permanent as most of the jobs will be be gone with various technological and economic changes. How an economy with chronic 50% youth unemployment like Europe has is supposed to function is beyond me.

From the experience of Europe and Japan, it doesn't.

People can't get enough resources to have kids at the income levels so they don't have them. The older idiots bring in new immigrants to replace them willing to invest less in their kids and unless they are expelled that society changes well, the results are bad.

In the long run the society has some combination of

becoming like the immigrants home (almost always inferior, people from good societies rarely emigrate) , is crapped out (only the rich and low investment people reproduce in numbers) and/or ages out to reach social carrying capacity.

To understand why predictions of Peak Oil have kept failing to materialize, see the two charts in this item from the FT's Lex Column a few years back: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/3/56ba9704-b916-11dc-bb66-0000779fd2ac.html#axzz1xyRpjFbz

Half sigma, there has been a lot of discussion about the proposed homeland for Euro Americans. One of the biggest benefits of such a home land would be that there would be a shortage of low skilled labor and as such low skilled labor would be priced higher as such Euro american teenagers could easily get summer jobs

There is a concensus here in the hbd blog o sphere that every ethnic group deserves its own ethnic homeland where that ethnic group can live free from large numbers of non ethnic group members.

Of course there will be some countries that are multi ethnic as well

There are many types of Euro Americans that might want to live in a nearly all Euro American homeland. First of all, Euro Americans that want to know that their children and grandchildren will marry only other Euro Americans and procreate with only other Euro Americans needs to live in a nearly all Euro American homeland. For obvious reasons, if you raise your children in a diverse neighbhorhood you will wind up with mixed great grandchildren, there is almost a certainty of that

Also, if you have children born with an IQ under 100, chances are those children will compete with low IQ immigrants for jobs. So those people here in the steve o sphere that expect to have children born with IQ under 100 also should live in the Euro American homeland.

There are plenty of other categories of Euro Americans that might want to live in the Euro American homeland.

But can we shift the discussion to the here and now?

Has anyone else on this blog been to St George Utah? St George is a nearly all Euro America bastion of traditional values. It seems to me that St George is almost identical to what the hypothetical Euro American homeland would look like.

Again, I bear no malice to those Euro Americans that want to live in a polyglot non traditionalist country. I just want to discuss the outlines of the proposed Euro American homeland and its benefits.

And of course Half Sigma you are a high IQ elite and you will want to live in an interesting place like NYC, the Euro American homeland would be of more interest to proles

"It's also worth mentioning that child labor laws are so restrictive now that it's hardly worth hiring anyone under 18 anymore. They are not allowed to work except between 7AM and 7PM (9PM in the summer), which means they can't close at a restaurant that serves dinner or open one that serves breakfast, which means they're useless. "

All true. There also are restrictions on the types of work that under-18's can do, which serve to make them less useful to employers. A deli or bagel shop or similar establishment can't hire them because they're unable to use slicers. In supermarkets, they're prohibited from using electric pallet movers. Any business that does deliveries, for example pharmacies, can't let under-18's operate motor vehicles and therefore may be less willing to hire them.

While we are on the topic of immigrants, why hasn't HS posted on Obama's new amnesty order?

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