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October 05, 2012

Comments

Well, they didn't really invent them, but videogames?

China is too big to be generalized. North and south difference (2000 miles apart) is as big as swedish vs greek.

Most Chinese you encountered in USA is out of Cantonese stock.

For expats experience, they feel more comfortable with northerners which are very similar to Manchurian, Mongolian, Korean in term of personality.

But at end, what we like or dislike will not determine what future will be as Anatoly Karlin said:

The world as it will be, not as we want it to be…

I share your affection for the Japanese, but I recognize that is basically on the same level as liking "diversity" when all you really want is a bunch of ethnic restaurants.

Chinese tend to be more gruff and blunt, whereas the Japanese are more reserved and polite. The culture is highly different from ours, and not to say ours is superior, but I bet you would find a lot of things weird or distasteful about it.

Read Dogs & Demons, Tales From the Dark Side of Japan by Alex Kerr.

Chinese -- generally the one's born in China or some others Asian countries where Chinese are from -- tend to be very selfish, cheap, showy and lacking in empathy. Dealing with Chinese landlords are a nightmare. They nickel and dime you for every little thing and deduct it from your deposit. They are very slow to make repairs, and when they finally make repairs, they do it cheaply and shoddily and sometimes have the audacity to make you pay for some or all the repairs. They are partly responsible for the increase in real estate and rental costs. Everyplace where there are lots of Chinese, say 10% or more, real estate costs have skyrocketed. It's because Chinese voraciously buy up real estate. Chinese businesses tend to sell shoddy schlock. I can't stand Chinese neighborhoods; they stink and are full of filth.

Japanese are the opposite.

Korean males are the most Alpha of the Asians. They tend to be aggressive and bullying. My hypothesis is their nearly 100% rate of male circumcision plays a role in their aggressive behavior. I notice they tend to be nice and agreeable if you stay on their good side, but if you wrong them in the slightest, they basically want to kill you. Koreans are like ghetto thug proles when mad. Again, circumcision has dulled their sexual pleasure, which leads to sexual frustration that is acted out in aggressive ways.

Japan and to a lesser extent Korea is unique for several reasons. The Japanese basically discarded their traditions and heritage for modernization purposes back in the 1800s. They chose to be more western like. They succeed in many key areas but not completely. Post WW2 that westernization was fully cemented.

Japan is a high trust society. China and India are not (to put it mildly). Low trust societies are not good at shifting from low-value labor to value added production.
Unfortunately a high-trust society does not prevent a political elite from promising unsustainable benefits to their voters (Japan, USA, Europe) so even Japan is in for a nasty ride, made all the worse by their lack of natural resources.

The only robot of any consequence would be one that allowed whites to live without physical fear of blacks. Since the Japanese are not known for being PC, perhaps they could turn themselves to the task. On the other hand, there was that video of a bunch of Tokyo cops cowering before a crazed American brotha, as if they'd already learned U.S.-style racial politesse.

It'd be interested to see patents per capita w/o software patents which are horribly abused in the US and don't reflect value creation.

Interesting! Half Sigma is a first rate blog. Your belief that Japan will be the wealthiest nation (per capita I presume) is not shared by Citi. Although I tend to agree with you assessment, here are the rankings of the wealthiest countries of 2050 on a per capita ppp basis. Singapore is ranked first and Japan is not even in the top ten. Personally, I can see why Korea is ranked so highly. Intuitively it has the potential of Japan, but the model makes too much out of the recent stellar growth rate. Remember, South Korea just recently became classified as a developed country. Singapore is a bad example because it is really just a financial city. It would be more accurate to compare it to London. I think Japan's lead in
robotics is a little overstated. A lot of automation will be merely better work process flows designed by advanced computer algorithms. Fanuc, the main Japanese robotics company, is number one in manipulator robots. However, GE divested from a joint venture with Fanuc in which Fanuc took the actual tool part of the business and GE took the automation system feedback part. The superior capital markets of the United States will probably lead to rapid automation once the automation technology further improves. However, there are many US companies poised to take advantage of the trend: GE, Rockwell Automation, Illinois Toolworks, and even Cisco Systems. On the side of personal robots there is iRobot and Boston Dynamics.

Here is the Citi rankings:
http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/cities/top-10-wealthiest-countries-in-2050/4708
I don't agree with PPP ranking methodology.

Japan had the good sense to avoid 'invade, invite, in hoc to the world.'

Though the in hoc part is questionable and about to be tested. They're in hoc to themselves. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.

Given the Japanese nature, I suspect it will largely be with an English stiff upper lip as the elderly nominally get shafted on their life savings, but no real harm done to their standard of living due to technology picking up the slack.

According to Wikipedia, the first digital camera was built in 1975 by Steve Sasson, an engineer at Eastman Kodak.

Of course the Japanese do deserve a lot of credit.

Japan is very good for its proles and bad for its upper classes. It's kind of like Charles Murray's hypothesis. The smart fraction agrees to all sorts of limits on their behavior and strict rules. This kind of sucks for them and is really boring, but it gives the lower classes a standard of conduct to live by.

The Japanese you meet outside of Japan are very different from the ones you meet living there. The ones outside of Japan are the more individual ones who left because they couldn't handle the stifling culture.

"And I thank the Japanese for Final Fantasy XI, a really awesome computer game like World of Warcraft, but better. When the U.S. government creates a game for unemployed people to play to make money, we should hire Square Enix to program us something like Final Fantasy XI. "

I rather have unemployed people submit themselves to a form of house arrest with a stipend. They are permitted to move within a 5 mile radius during working hours for food and exercise (if they like to run). They could read whatever they they such as Wikipedia articles, history books, scientific journal articles, and intellectually stimulating blogs like Half Sigma, instead of playing games. A game would be too much of a prison for some intellectually curious people

Japanese people are really the salt of the earth; they have fewer NAMs or proles in Japan.

I lived in Japan for 9 years and Taiwan for one. I have spent time in Mainland China as well as S.E. Asia. Chinese, Japanese, and Korean character are indeed quite different from each other. I am comfortable around all three ethnic groups.

It is certainly true that the Japanese and Koreans are beginning to innovate rather than just copy. And it is nice that it is recognized on a blog such as this one. This is because both economies have moved up the techno-economic ladder that they must innovate if they are to continue to enjoy relative economic prosperity. Also, both countries lack natural resources as well as have aging populations. These are also impetus for technological innovation.

The Chinese are simply further behind on the curve. Hence, they do not innovate much. However, once they move up the ladder, they will also be forced to innovate as well. In time, they will innovate as well.

"Japan is in for a nasty ride, made all the worse by their lack of natural resources"

I believed this for a long, long time, but it is not very true. Japan is fairly well-positioned among the world's nations. Which is to say they have substantial challenges whereas much of the world is effed.

The Japanese debt problem is small compared to our own. It is all domestic debt, meaning Japanese lending to other Japanese. If they offer a haircut on that debt it will not be a disaster. Some Japanese old people will have a smaller (but still substantial) pile of money but they are old and don't need a fortune.

Remember, Japan is still a lender to the world including America. They hold a lot of US Treasuries, which they can sell if they need to.

Japan is an exporter extraordinaire and therefore they have plenty of options to get hard currency from whoever has it in the future to buy whatever they need.

Appreciating Japanese exports, I myself have a Japanese wife and we have four hapa kids. She just turned 31 and barring an unfortunate accident we'll be having more I imagine. What was that? You asked if she is thinner than before we had four children? Funny you should ask, because, yes. Yes she is.

(not trolling)

Drole Prole you nailed it with the Chinese. And not to mention that they make horrible bosses (unethical and tyrannical) and lousy professors (explain things in a half-assed way).
Sigma, you and I have very similar views regarding the "Japanese vs Chinese". Chinese people seem to be on a perpetual cocaine rush, and, I apologize for sounding like some PETA wacko, but I can't get over how the Chinese treat their animals; it's sickening.
Regarding the Japanese: Yes, as someone stated above, Japanese culture can be stifling, but what I like is that they value modesty, integrity and saving face -- the polar opposite of NAM (in particular, Black) values.

There's a reason there were virtually no rapes, murders and riots after the recent Japanese tsunami.

Japanese people are very polite and reserved. They wear different masks for different occasions, and and are often very inscrutable. A lot of people dislike this, but I personally enjoy polite, indirect behavior and manners. Of all the races in the world, they are undoubtedly the most altruistic to their own kind. There was no looting after the tsunamis in Japan last year the way there was in New Orleans after Katrina.

The downside is that their highly socialized culture can be too overbearing for them, which is why in part so many of their men stay at home these days. Their in-group altruism can also make them cold to foreigners (except Americans, I think, because I think they respect us), or utterly vicious as we saw in WWII.

Chinese people are also more introverted than Americans, but they're usually more socially awkward. The Japanese people exhibit tremendous social grace and control, whereas Chinese people are often just weird. Chinese people are often hard to converse with, and the natural flow of a conversation or the process of opening up to someone as you know them better are often hard for them to get.

What's interesting is that, while socially awkward, they can also be horribly treacherous. Chinese history abounds with Machiavellians par excellence, not the least of which was Mao.

Koreans are the easiest for white people to relate to. They're more blunt and emotional. The downside is that they're often unbearably rude and direct. When they're nice, however, they're exceptionally warm and passionate.

"Korean males are the most Alpha of the Asians. They tend to be aggressive and bullying. My hypothesis is their nearly 100% rate of male circumcision plays a role in their aggressive behavior"

If I remember correctly, the South Koreans started circumcising en masse after American troops arrived. (Evidence: it's done frequently in South Korea, not North Korea.) The Japanese stereotypes of rowdy, angry Koreans go back before the Korean War, so I think the pugnaciousness of Koreans probably isn't tied to circumcision.

As a musician, I don't thank the Japanese for karaoke. But I did like our copycat America's Funniest Home Videos. Both were simple, prosaic ideas, that originated in Japan.

I also liked their Extreme Elimination show on Spike, though it was the American voiceovers that made that, IMO.

"I also really LIKE most of the Japanese people that I’ve met. I feel completely the opposite way about Chinese people."

This is the way Neal Stephenson describes them in Cryptonomicon. Chinese are sinister and aggressive; Japanese are cultured and seek approval; Filipinos run an absurd and chaotic country. (The WWII segments were different, of course.)

I admire the way they've given the UN the two finger salute and refused to accept large numbers of unassimilable groups.

Black_Rose,

Perfect. Destroy free enterprise so that "citizens" need the dole. Limit their movement to a tiny radius. Tell them what few activities are allowed. Worry that they feel imprisoned. No wonder you don't care that East Germany was a giant trap. You're an aspiring prison warden.

***Since the Japanese are not known for being PC***

Indeed, not many US economists would have written an article like this one.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-04-16/news/9102030765_1_ethnic-industrial-blacks-and-hispanics

Also, Japanese movies have been influential on the US.

"George Lucas has acknowledged influence of The Hidden Fortress on Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope,[6] particularly in the technique of telling the story from the perspective of the film's lowliest characters, C-3PO and R2-D2.[7][8] Kurosawa's use of frame wipes (sometimes cleverly hidden by motion within the frame) as a transition device also influenced Star Wars. Lucas' original plot outline for Star Wars also had a strong resemblance to the plot of The Hidden Fortress.[9]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Fortress

[HS: I thought Star Wars was based on the Lord of the Rings and the Hitchcock movie The 39 Steps.]

Ditto that!

The Japanese also invented:

+ flash memory
+ the CD-ROM (jointly with Philips)
+ the Walkman
+ the VCR
+ instant noodles
+ the pocket calculator
+ the quartz wristwatch

Japanese people are polite, neat, honest and civic-minded while mainland Chinese people are rude, obnoxious, crooked and ruthlessly selfish.

-MV

Oh, I almost forgot. Japanese people have class. All mainline Chinese are low-class proles. High-IQ and future time orientated, yes, but proles none the less.

MV

A Japanese staid with me in 8th grade. She couldn't pass the college entrance exams in Japan so she wanted to go to school here in Les Etats-Unis Merdeux.

Japan, like almost every no-US country, admits or denies admission based exclusively on test scores.

It is inevitable that such countries will be more productive than the US.

The US rewards the pushy cheerleader type with mediocre test scores. This is true both in college admissions and grades and on the job. Pushy cheerleader types are grossly overrepresented among US executives. Flag-wavers who think Ayn Rand was actually a "philosopher" are also overrepresented.

"Japan is a high trust society. China and India are not (to put it mildly)."

There was that infamous incident recently of an injured girl in the street in China that no one helped (apparently, they were afraid of getting sued, which is common there). She lay crying until another car ran her over and killed her.

"+ the Walkman"

Sony was the Apple, Inc. of the '80s, and the Walkman was the iPod of the '80s. Might have been the first Asian brand that was considered cool and high quality in the US (that or Toyota's Lexus).

"According to Wikipedia, the first digital camera was built in 1975 by Steve Sasson, an engineer at Eastman Kodak."

Kodak may not have done the best job at embracing digital (or at avoiding bankruptcy), but has recognized the importance of diversity: http://www.kodak.com/ek/US/en/About_Kodak_Top/Global_Sustainability/Global_Diversity.htm

"Perfect. Destroy free enterprise so that "citizens" need the dole. Limit their movement to a tiny radius. Tell them what few activities are allowed. Worry that they feel imprisoned. No wonder you don't care that East Germany was a giant trap. You're an aspiring prison warden."

Living in an alleged "prison state" like East Germany wasn't so bad -- just keep the NAMs out so it wouldn't be like Chino.

I don't know what HBDers prefer, but I suppose if they really believed in HBD, they would prefer to live in the East German "prison state" than a NAM-infested ghetto in the US.

HS I agree the Japanese are great. But according to the internet white American's invented the Digital Camera and the Liquid crystal display (Blue Ray was indeed invented by a Japanese)

http://inventors.about.com/od/lstartinventions/a/LCD.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Sasson

A lot of product that people think the Japanese "invented" were commercialized by Japanese companies but based on American/European research.

Agree with MV. Chinese are most low-class proles with high-IQ and future orientation, which is deadly combination threatening non-Chinese proles.

This might explain their success because they compete against bottom of the world. When everthing equal, high-IQ wins.

Great blog HS, this is the first comment I've left.

I think many of you are underestimating the difference that educational and economic differences make between the behaviour of the average Japanese and Chinese person. It would be better to compare the average Japanese person with the average Taiwanese person or Singaporean, or even HKer, to level the playing field. In this comparison, I agree there are still significant differences, but not so much in terms of actual kindness. I've often been shouted drinks by people I barely know in these places, and I find their behaviour much more sincere than with Japanese people who often promise things that they don't deliver, out of politeness. Also, I find the constant bowing and giggling of many Japanese people (even men!) to make it more difficult and awkward to converse with than the Chinese.

I think perhaps it's a subconscious resentfulness of China for their inevitable inheritance of the USA's global dominance that drives a lot of opinions here. In my country (Australia), which is better poised to ride with Chinese success and remain one of the relatively few Western countries with a GDP per capita comparable with or better than the best-performing Asian countries, we have much less reason to be upset!

The Japanese like fast cars, Formula One, MotoGp and World Superbike. That is why they are the best Asians. They actually like a lot of the same stuff that badass white men, those of us who would have been mounted cavalry or adventurers (or still are), such as myself, like. Honda V12 engine - awesome; driven by Senna in 1991 - amongst the highest level of man and machine ever achieved. Brilliant.

Repost:

The Japanese are responsible for inventing...

Flat-panel display, floppy disk, digital SLR camera, video cassette, camcorder, pocket calculators, portal music players (Walkman), quartz wrist watch, high-speed passenger train and CDs (Jointly developed by Sony and Philips).

Not to mention this in the near future.

World's First 8K Ultra High Definition Display

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U7e_quvkPQ

[HS: I thought Star Wars was based on the Lord of the Rings and the Hitchcock movie The 39 Steps.]

Lucas originally wanted to adapt Flash Gordon into a movie, but eventually came up with his own intellectual property. Lucas adopted a lot of ideas, themes and imagery from different sources. There are plenty of Japanese elements in Star Wars:

* Vader's helmet resembles a Samurai kabuto helm.
* Jedi comes from Jidaigeki (means period drama).
* The Jedi themselves are reminiscent of Zen monks.
* The Emperor's actor admitted that his character's guttural voice comes

And so forth.

What's interesting is that the Japanese are very culturally creative, at least compared to other Asians. The Chinese have a long history and a rich literary tradition, but Korean, Vietnamese, Mongolian, among other Asian cultures, are very parochial. Only a few experts and academics really seem to be fascinated by them. Modern Korean cinema is somewhat popular among Americans, but I don't think too many people really care about mid 15th century Korean literature.

As an American of Chinese descent, I recognize the negative role that hypercompetivness plays in my interpersonal relationships. I wonder if there is a drug for this? A 1 billion+ market for such a drug would surely entice the large pharmaceuticals?

"mainland Chinese people are rude, obnoxious, crooked and ruthlessly selfish."

What about ethnic Chinese people from Taiwan (ie, yer Jeremy Lin types)? Most Taiwanese Chinese are put off by Mainlanders and view Mainland China with suspicion generally.

About Koreans - their men have to do 2 years of compulsory military service, which is serious business due to the looming threat from the north. It's a common and formative experience for Korean men, and I wonder how it affects Korean cultural male personality traits. I also wonder whether you would find similarities in that regard between Koreans and Israelis.

Taiwanese are ethnic Chinese who are civic minded like the Japanese but more extroverted. As a society, the Taiwanese are in another place and on another shore now -- in the Buddhistic sense, demonstrated by the fact that their birthrate is one of the lowest in the world, and was the absolute lowest in the world for a couple years iirc.

Mainland Chinese are the Albanians of Asia. It's no coincidence that Communist Albania was Europe's only openly Maoist state; kindred spirits seek each other out in the turbulent world. The mainland Chinese are an ancestrally strife-ridden, turbulent, and clannish people, psychiatrically fragmented further by Maoism, and finally done in by the post-Maoist moral vacuum. Despite the presence of a handful of genuinely creative individuals in Chinese history, the national spirit is prole at heart. There is no aristocratic sensibility in China; the historical and mythological archetype from the dawn of Chinese history to Mao Tse Tung is the literally unwashed peasant rebel leader seizing the mandate of heaven and becoming emperor draped in the finest silks. That said, theoretically China can develop a softer personality by following Taiwan's spiritual example.

Back in 2006 the Prime Minister of Japan looked upon his nation and self-congratulatingly praised his nation for possessing "one civilization, one language, one culture and one race." There was no furor from the mainstream Japanese media. The Japanese do not fuck around when it comes to preserving their racially homogenous monoculture. Japan is a nation that discovered Nietzsche 200 years before Nietzsche; a Japanese philosopher stated that "A real samurai does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death," which should really be Japan's official motto.

Tokugawa is a bit of a one-trick pony. With his Aggressive and Protective traits, he is good for combat bonuses and quick promotions, but not much else. His UU, the Samurai, is quite strong, but not useful past the Renaissance era. Verdict: while Toku is strong as a warmonger, his lack of economic traits condemns him to be a one-dimensional warmonger.

"As an American of Chinese descent, I recognize the negative role that hypercompetivness plays in my interpersonal relationships. I wonder if there is a drug for this?"

Yes, it's called opium.

"Korean males are the most Alpha of the Asians."

I sort of agree, but the Chinese are far more boorish and willing to brawl with blacks than Korean men, and Korean men account for one-fifth of the global market for men's cosmetics.

If we count homo clothing and hairstyles, the percentage of Korean men in vogue soars. It's amazing to see how many Korean men relapse into "flower men" as soon as their military service is up.

Quote: "Japanese men are going to be inventing robots that will transform the world and make Japan the world’s richest nation"

Not unless they do something about their low birthrates.

A good comparision between the modern day Japanese and Chinese is comparing them with the Europeans and Ashkenazi Jews of the past.

The Japanese are like the Europeans with a sense of honor and creative ability. The Chinese are arrogantly cunning and money oriented like the Ashkenazi Jews of the past.

Japan is a top-notch country and I've gotten along better with the Japanese I've known than just about anyone else. Most of the technologies attributed to Japan in this thread were developed in other countries. I think Japan is being credited because they've been so successful at manufacturing the products based on those technologies.

Black_Rose

Is North Korea not a prison state? It's NAM-free! Sure, NKs may be fleeing to CHINA, but East Germans fled constantly too. Would you move to NK to avoid NAMs?

If Japanese are superior, then why did they have to receive civilization from Han Chinese? The Kimono is a copy of Han clothing. Even sushi is not invented by the Japanese. Sushi has its origin in South East Asia. The Japanese word for sushi (鮨) comes from the Han language.

No, I wanted to make a comparison between a US NAM-infested ghetto (e.g. Compton or Aurora, Colorado) and East Germany, which was relatively prosperous; I didn't want to talk about getting away from NAMs in general, only the specific cases of locales in the US were NAMs demographically predominate.

I actually socialize with Hispanics and a few black parishioners (and some Filipinos, but they not normally considered "NAMs" since they do not underachieve in the US although they score in the mid 80s in IQ in Richard Lynn's surveys of global intelligence); I refuse to refer to my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ that I know personally in my words or thoughts with the derogatory epithet "NAM". I respect them and do not regard them with opprobrium, and I have no desire to avoid them. Perhaps, due to self-selection of Church events, they may be the "good" type of Hispanics as these people are highly religious and sincere with their faith -- maybe, if it can be quantified, greater than 90th percentile, relative to the US population in general -- and would be expected to behave different from the general population. Well, the Venerable Half Sigma would not be impressed with their occupations since some are in teaching and nursing (low middle class and prole), and no one there is an E (since Es are concentrated in financial and technological centers).

The young adults I know don't seem to have prole conservative values; a few are overtly pro-life (as I am too, although in a less fervent, abstract philosophical sense, but most certainly not politically pro-life), but none seem to be heavily invested in the economic Republican Party. (If I actually had to do something that would violate my personal integrity such as voting for a Republican or in a bourgeois election in general to considered pro-life, then fuck it -- I am not pro-life.)

I use the term "NAM" as an impersonal demographic term on HBD websites; I would not apply it as an ethnic label to describe any acquaintances.

Yes, Jews are terrible people and White Gentiles are great people. That should be the main point of every thread.

Note that just like the Chinese, Jews have never invented anything important.

"I also really LIKE most of the Japanese people that I’ve met. I feel completely the opposite way about Chinese people. Most Chinese people seem to be weird in a way that’s hard to explain. While Japanese people are probably more introverted than the average white American, they aren’t introverted in a way that seems unfriendly or hostile."

Simple: The Japanese are, on the whole, reserved, while most Chinese are just rude.

"Not unless they do something about their low birthrates."

The Japanese have an innate advantage in that they haven't compounded their native population decline by bringing in fast-breeding, hostile foreigners. Low birthrates shouldn't necessarily be extrapolated into the future. My guess is that as Japan becomes less crowded and the cost of living goes down, their birthrates will rise to replacement level.

The only potential problem is their post WWII treaty-imposed dependence on the US for military support. If the US decides to put the same pressure on Japan that we've put on all our European dependents to open the borders, there won't be a whole lot the Japanese can do about it. While it may be less politically correct than forcing multiculturalism on Europe (because unlike the Europeans, the Japanese aren't white), I could easily see the US pulling strings to force open borders on Japan to curry favor with allies in southeast Asia, or perhaps even further afield.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19827287

Stem cells made from skin have become "grandparents" after generations of life were created in experiments by scientists in Japan.

Very true, Chinese tend to be prolish. They are very loud. My theory for why they talk loudly because they are hard of hearing due to being surrounded by loud talkers. Being hard of hearing, they have to talk loudly to be heard, which causes further hearing damage, which requires talking louder to be heard...

Black_Rose

Do you think it's reasonable that NK citizens are not allowed to leave NK?

Do you think it's reasonable that many Cuban citizens are only allowed to leave if their families are held hostage?

If the answer to either question is no, then why was it reasonable that many EGs were not allowed to leave? What was so different about that particular country that shooting people who tried to go was OK with you?

Sigma's fawning nipponophilia nor wariness of the Chinese are nothing new. They seem to be a historical Western trait. The Japanese are a childlike race, polite but ultimately infantile.

Rudyard Kipling wrote about it over a century ago in "From Sea to Sea"

"As in Nagasaki, the town was full of babies, and as in Nagasaki, every one smiled except the Chinamen. I do not like Chinamen. There was something in their faces which I could not understand, though it was familiar enough.

‘The Chinaman’s a native,’ I said. ‘That’s the look on a native’s face, but the Jap isn’t a native, and he isn’t a Sahib either. What is it?’ The Professor considered the surging street for a while.

‘The Chinaman’s an old man when he’s young, just as a native is; but the Jap is a child all his life. Think how grown-up people look among children. That’s the look that’s puzzling you.’

I dare not say that the Professor is right, but to my eyes it seemed he spoke sooth. As the knowledge of good and evil sets its mark upon the face of a grown man of Our people, so something I did not understand had marked the faces of the Chinamen. They had no kinship with the crowd beyond that which a man has to children.

‘They are the superior race,’ said the Professor, ethnologically.

‘They can’t be. They don’t know how to enjoy life,’ I answered immorally. ‘And, anyway, their art isn’t human.’

‘What does it matter?’ said the Professor. ‘Here’s a shop full of the wrecks of old Japan. Let’s go in and look.’ We went in, but I want somebody to solve the Chinese question for me. It’s too large to handle alone."

I do find Japanese porn to be lacking. The women look plain and fobby; I seldom I find them sexy compared to Japanese American porn stars. Must be the diet or something in the environment that makes Japanese Americans look different from Japanese born in Japan. 9 times of 10, just by looking at a japanese without hearing them speka, I can tell if they are from the US or Japan. To throw a monkey wrench into the equation, Japanese from Brazil are a mystery to me that I shall explore further soon.

[HS: High-fat high-protein food like Big Macs cause the American-born Japanese women to have bigger breasts.]

amploid:

"It would be better to compare the average Japanese person with the average Taiwanese person or Singaporean, or even HKer"

I agree. There is a huge difference between mainland Chinese and ethnic Chinese elsewhere.

anyasian:
"What about ethnic Chinese people from Taiwan"

Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore have an entirely different cultural dynamic than the mainland and I'd guess that this is probably because of Mao simply because I see a similar type of dog-eat-dog depravity in people from post-Soviet states.

I suppose for an American observing mainland China here are other cultural differences that amplify the apparent lack of community and trust. The Japanese obviously have a high-trust, honor-based society and yet many acceptable practices seem depraved to westerners. So if Japan had endured 30 years of totalitarian socialism, the resulting mess of a culture would probably be worse than Eastern Europe.

Nicolai:
"Japan, like almost every no-US country, admits or denies admission based exclusively on test scores.

It is inevitable that such countries will be more productive than the US."

One would think so, but one would be wrong. Of countries with populations larger than 10 million, the U.S. is still the most productive country in the world and this holds true whether looking at GDP per capita, GDP per worker or even GDP per hour worked.

Considering that 30% of the country is made of ethnic groups that tend to be less competitive wherever they are found in the world, this is an absolutely reality.

If we make demographically consistent comparisons, adjusting for age and ethnicity, the success of the U.S. relative to the rest of the world is nothing short of amazing.

It's a shame that the party is now winding down so rapidly. Oh, well. The USA was a good thing while it lasted.

-MV

MV

I understand your point. But there are a few factors that make it less of a miracle.

First, the US has had some advantages in natural resources, large population and business friendly economics.

Second, America's population was self selected. On average, even NAMs were the best their native countries had to offer. Much has been made of how poorly the US does on TIMMS but if you break the US into its components you'll find that nearly every one of them outperforms their counterparts overseas. White Americans are the best whites in the world. Black Americans are the best blacks in the world. Hispanics are the best hispanics in the world. It's just that even the best blacks and hispanics perform poorly enough to knock the US average down to the bottom of the pile academically.

And, third, an economy can tolerate a certain percentage of low skill, education & IQ workers without affecting its productivity. There are garbage collectors, bus drivers, waitresses and janitors in Japan, too. And they're probably much smarter than the ones in the US. But does it really matter? No, because the jobs have to be done and they can be done just as easily by someone with an IQ of 80 as 105.

But the situation is changing. Whites are, on average, older and make up a larger percentage of the workforce. As boomers retire and jobs require more intelligence, education, skill, etc the growing numbers of NAMs will start to really hurt US competitiveness. The US never needed immigrants to "do the jobs Americans wouldn't do". But the growing number of jobs that require intelligence is starting to make the growing number of NAMs without it a real liability.

"and this holds true whether looking at GDP per capita, GDP per worker or even GDP per hour worked"

I am suspicious of PPP adjustments.

The absurd expense of healthcare and education in the US compared to "poorer" countries like Germany and the enormous amount of crap Americans consume (which is all part of GDP) may not be properly adjusted for.

A much better measure than GDP per capita is median household income per capita. Here only Luxembourg leads the US.

The US does have an enormous advantage in natural resources, especially arable/habitable land (an advantage it has over Canada and Australia).

The American born Chinese I've come across are mostly well mannered and polite. Definitely nice people for the most part.

"The American born Chinese I've come across are mostly well mannered and polite. Definitely nice people for the most part".

They lack the aggressive acumen of the Ashkenazi Jews and the creative ability of White gentiles. Being nice and polite in America aren't respected qualities.

"There are garbage collectors, bus drivers, waitresses and janitors in Japan, too. And they're probably much smarter than the ones in the US. But does it really matter? No, because the jobs have to be done and they can be done just as easily by someone with an IQ of 80 as 105".

True. In Japan, the UPS and Fedex guys will redeliver your packages on the same day if they see that your business wasn't open early in the morning when they were making their rounds. Here in America, these same companies have low IQ NAM drivers who are either rude or stupid and feel too entitled to give a damn about anything. If they miss you, tough luck. You need to go to the nearest pickup station to fetch your stuff.

Reading the comments, the Japanese are effective in exporting what they believe of themselves. I don't think there is much difference between East Asian groups. Genetically they are very similar, much more than European ethnic groups. I think what people see as differences can be attributed to the style of government East Asian countries adopted from Europe and how East Asians lived within those systems. In the late 1800s the British Empire was rising at the same time Japan was Westernizing. Japan sent delegates to Great Britain to study it's system of government and adopted it. During the first half of the 1900s the Soviet Union was on an upswing eventually covering more territory than any other nation. At the same time China was Westernizing and decided to adopt the Soviet style of government. You can look at each East Asian country and see at a certain point in their development they adopted a Eurpean style government that at the time had the wind at it's back. East Asians are very status concious. They bandwagon like no one else.

The personal stereo was invented by Andreas Pavel, digital camera by Steven Sasson, high-speed passenger train developed in Europe, flat-panel display developed in the US, floppy disk created by IBM, and hand-held calculator by Texas Instruments.

"The American born Chinese I've come across are mostly well mannered and polite. Definitely nice people for the most part." -- Vic

I sort of agree. Some of the Chinese behaviors is obviously environmental. China is a country full of peasants clawing each others' eyes out. When they come here they're still intense but not as vicious. Although that reaction to the Wallace girl at UCLA was definitely over the top.

Interesting. In my experience introverted North Europeans like Germans and Finns tend to get on well with Japanese. Irish, Italians, and Jews prefer the Chinese. Kissinger for example thought the Chinese leaders - like Zhou En Lai - he met were brilliant and that the Japanese were "prosaic, obtuse, unworthy of his sustained attention." and "little Sony salesmen." Most Americans, I suspect, find Chinese much easier to relate to than Japanese. I certainly do.

"nd some Filipinos, but they not normally considered "NAMs" since they do not underachieve in the US although they score in the mid 80s in IQ in Richard Lynn's surveys of global intelligence"

Are they ethnic Filipinos? A lot of "Filipino" immigrants to the US, like a lot of "Vietnamese", are actually ethnic Chinese. I suspect that is why Filipinos in the US do better than you might expect.

"In my experience introverted North Europeans like Germans and Finns tend to get on well with Japanese. Irish, Italians, and Jews prefer the Chinese".

There is a certain truth to this. But I think Asians in general find the Nordish Whites to be more cogenial. They tend to be more reserved and stoic just like them. Medish types tend to be the opposite, but can relate well with the Chinese because of ancient legacies.

"They lack the aggressive acumen of the Ashkenazi Jews and the creative ability of White gentiles."

Ashkenazi Jews can be plenty creative. There are 50 to 100 times as many White gentiles as there are Ashkenazim in the world, and by necessity, they will undertake a larger share of productive academic and technical work.

I think the current love that white people have for Japan is more about not being Chinese than it has to do with anything Japanese.

White people love Japan because in doing so they can avoid being accused of being racist against Asians. Remember white people hated Japan in the eighties when Japan looked like it was going to take over the world.

But white people are more comfortable with Japan because they are a smaller country with a lot less people and white people tend to think that they are in controll of Japan where as china is a rogue nation.

"Being nice and polite in America aren't respected qualities."

They may not be respected qualities but are useful in the non prole business world which most American born Chinese are a part of. I mean who would you rather deal with, American born or Chinese born?

Ashkenazis were always known for their sharp acumen and aggressiveness. Combined with their intelligence are the reasons why Jews dominate in many facets of American life.

There is this pervasive link between Jews and Asians being the "New Jews". I don't see it. Asians lack the aggressive and chutzpah alpha qualities that have made Jews the successful group they are in this land of opportunity. Most people also forget that Jews suffered anti-semitism in the past and overcame many odds to become an outstanding group.

Jewish success largely is a result of ethnic networking, their relationship with the larger community around them and the larger community usually being less ethnocentric. Jews haven't had success on their own. Even the state of Isreal was created by the British and Americans. You would have to go back thousands of years to find an example of Jews having an independent civilization and it only lasted a few decades. Jews generally don't like doing the day to day things that keep a civilization going and would rather sit at the top of society or be a gatekeeper. East Asians don't need others to have a functioning society however in the modern world they would fall far behind quickly if they didn't take and utilize the knowledge European and Jewish people produce. They are dependent on Western sources to maintain modernity.

"Ashkenazis were always known for their sharp acumen and aggressiveness. Combined with their intelligence are the reasons why Jews dominate in many facets of American life."

Chinese aren't at all like Jews. Jews are extroverted, individualistic, and imaginative.

Chinese are super hierarchical, have almost no personality, and get quickly lost if they have to think outside the box.

Recent Chinese immigrants are arguably like older Jews in the sense they are stingy with money. But American Jews now enjoy spending money more than their immigrant ancestors, so even the "stingy with money" stereotype no longer holds a lot of water.

"I don't think there is much difference between East Asian groups. Genetically they are very similar, much more than European ethnic groups. I think what people see as differences can be attributed to the style of government East Asian countries adopted from Europe and how East Asians lived within those systems."

In general, it's hard to tell if genetically related groups are culturally different because of genetic tendencies or because their cultural arrangement brings out their group's inherent abilities in different ways.

In terms of cultural differences, Japan is probably more orderly than China because Japan is much less corrupt than China is. However, Japan's cultural advantage over China happened recently. Throughout most of history China was the better organized imperial power and Japan was split apart by feudal warlordism.

"The personal stereo was invented by Andreas Pavel, digital camera by Steven Sasson, high-speed passenger train developed in Europe, flat-panel display developed in the US, floppy disk created by IBM, and hand-held calculator by Texas Instruments."

Does this mean Asian manufacturers are value transferers if they can only copy ideas already invented by Western geniuses?

[HS: No, engineering is value creation work. And furthermore, there is not a single discovery or invention, anymore, that doesn't build upon someone else's previous work. And you are cherrypicking a few examples. We'd be worse off without Japanese ingenuity and inventiveness.]

"If the US decides to put the same pressure on Japan that we've put on all our European dependents to open the borders,"

The US didn't pressure Europe to let in nonwhite immigrants.

The Europeans opened the door on their own volition to attract low cost labor to make up for the manpower lost in WWI and WWII and because of white colonial guilt.

I like comments like "just like the Chinese, the Jews have never invented anything important."

Like the Jews, the Chinese don't give two $hits what you think of them.

[HS: Sabril was being ironic, because it's so well known that Jews have disproportionate representation in Nobel Prizes won and so many of history's most famous scientists were Jewish.]

@Just Speculating

The first wave of japanese immigrants in Brazil overcame alot too. From wiki(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Brazilian):

"The Japanese immigrants appeared to the Brazilian government as undesirable and non-assimilable immigrants. As Asian, they did not contribute to the "whitening" process of the Brazilian people as desired by the ruling Brazilian elite. In this process of forced assimilation the Japanese, more than any other immigrant group, suffered the ethno-cultural persecution imposed during this period.[21]"


Today they make up less than 1% of the population, but are 14% of student population of University of São Paulo.

"Most people also forget that Jews suffered anti-semitism in the past and overcame many odds to become an outstanding group."

Don't forget the highly prevalent anti-Jap sentiment during WWII. Americans were really anti-Asians before the 1960s. The Japanese in Hawaii have done really well and have risen up the ranks in politics, law and other fields of great influence.

Just Speculating is an anti Nihonite.


"Don't forget the highly prevalent anti-Jap sentiment during WWII. Americans were really anti-Asians before the 1960s. The Japanese in Hawaii have done really well and have risen up the ranks in politics, law and other fields of great influence".

Jews dominate and/or control much of NYC and Hollywood. These are important areas of industry. Even Jews seem to dominate more in Silicon Valley than Asians do, who are clearly overrepresented in numbers there. How many well known Asian tech firms do we know of?

Who cares about Hawaii. Again, Asians have never been influential in America because they lack certain traits such as aggression and extroversion.

"Chinese aren't at all like Jews. Jews are extroverted, individualistic, and imaginative.

Chinese are super hierarchical, have almost no personality, and get quickly lost if they have to think outside the box".

They also lack aggression and influence which is why China was never a hegemonic world power given its size.

"Although that reaction to the Wallace girl at UCLA was definitely over the top."

The most hysterical reactions to Alexandra Wallace actually came from white liberals.

If you guys think the Japanese are impressive or even the Chinese, I can make a case that the Southern Europeans have beaten them to the punch, when it comes to humanistic endeavors and creativity in general. The climate of the Mediterranean on the Northern side was inducive to creativity, and many of the greatest thinkers and artists lived on that zone. It began with the Ancient Greeks and still lives on with modern day Italy and Spain.

All the eastern philosophical traditions have very little to offer when it comes to the progress of mankind. Confucius was a one trick pony and his ideas are rigid, which is another reason why Asians can't seem to think outside of the box. Western philosophy had various brilliant thinkers and the Medish stock were no slouches. The idea of a democracy and republic came from them.

Asian artwork never evolved independently, where as the Italian Renaissance made Western Art realistically possible. The Italian Ferrari and Maserati are much classier than any Japanese made luxury car.

Filipinos are a hybrid of Asians, Spanish and Negritos (like those found in Papua New Guinea). I've noticed Filipinos tend to be very prolish. Filipino parents treat their kids like shit; smacking them like rag dolls and verbally denigrating them endlessly and often laughing about it. As a consequence, many Filipinos suffer from abused child syndrome; that is, they sympathize with abusive father figures and are abusers themselves. Filipinos are very un-PC and are often racist. They are also very homophobic in the way Bubba from the deep South are homophobic. They operate on a primitive level and have a difficulty overriding the primitive urges with more developed human faculties. When I interact with Filipinos, I get sense that they have large egos yet feel inadequate. They often have a very grad sense of self, which they display overtly while implicitly demonstrating a sense of lacking.

It's easy to explain the behavior of Chinese immigrants in the U.S. They're inconsiderate, and a little paranoid, but they can predict consequences.

Foreign-born Chinese have zero consideration for anyone, perhaps other than their families. The only reason they won't run you over as you cross the street in front of them is that it would be terribly inconvenient for them if they got caught (and they probably overestimate their chances of getting caught). The same is true for their commercial behavior - they won't pay bills until their vendor threatens to cut them off or actually sues them - once there's an *actual* consequence for their poor behavior, they'll rectify it.

@ Anthony

And they have a lot of money. They're buying up expensive real estate that no one else can afford.

I've got nothing against genetic racial differences, but isn't part of the issue that the Chinese are currently poor, and the Japanese relatively rich? The Chinese are scraping to get more, the Japanese trying to conserve what they have. Each situation is going to produce a certain set of traits.

Also, the Japanese are nice to us because (a) they're afraid of China and (b) they're afraid of us--we *nuked* them, after all. Let's not forget Unit 731, the rape of Nanjing, or the contest to see who could behead the most civilians with a samurai sword. There is blood on everyone's hands.

Final Fantasy XI was so bad... although it could have been their mismanagement w.r.t. not stopping people from running bots in the game.

I personally hated how incredibly slow and reliant on joining a group to level past 15 or so the game was.

I have memories of my brother sitting spinning his screen for 3-4 hours straight waiting for a randomly timed spawn to show up (he did it several times over the course of a couple weeks since the creep had a 10% drop rate and would randomly spawn every 24 hours +/- 2 hours (which meant you had to wait for 4 hours to have any assurance of being there when it spawned)

Just bad

[HS: Or amazing that they were able to make Final Fantasy XI so compelling that people were willing to watch the screen for hours waiting for a monster to spawn so they would have a tiny percentage chance of getting better gear.]

" AMERICAN-BORN CHINESE

It’s very important for me to add that American-born Chinese, and especially second-generation American-born Chinese, have much better personalities than foreign-born Chinese."

I agree 100%. I am generally pro-Asian but I get along with Westernized Asians better than foreign ones. Plus the Westernized Asian women are more appealing all around--taller, less traditional, and also more into sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll which I am all for in spite of their leftist influence.

Incidentally, I think that people today are less likely to swallow the Left agenda whole b/c of cultural and social issues than in the past. Unfortunately, lots of people are still voting heavily Democratic for cultural and social reasons, which I think is stupid. All the more reason to get rid of the two-party system altogether--I doubt Jews, Asians, and other successful people who are some sort of minority would all be voting for the same morons if they had a choice. I don't see how upper-middle class Jews and Asians (and young upper-middle class white gentiles for that matter) have the same interests as dirt poor blacks and Hispanics. And successful blacks and Hispanics have largely the same interests as any other successful people, with the important exception of affirmative action. On the other hand, affirmative action doesn't help out poor blacks and Hispanics very much.

One last thing, I think that the low voter turnout of non-whites (esp. for Asians and better-off NAMs) is the feeling that neither party represents their interests.

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