NY Times article about too many Asians getting into Stuyvesant

Earlier this weekend, the NY Times published an article about the “problem” of Asians scoring too high on the entrance exam for Stuyvesant and other “specialized” NYC high schools.

Of course, HBD denialism is in full force, because the high Asian scores are strictly explained as result of Asians studying too much, and this is bad for Asians (because they waste their childhood studying for tests) and bad for blacks (because… well I’m not sure why it’s bad for blacks, because if studying is bad, and blacks aren’t doing it, then that should be good for blacks).

There are those who have the opinion that if the truth of HBD were widely known, this would be really bad for blacks, because they would give up or get low self esteem or something like that. But it seems to me that blacks already believe in HBD and are aware that they aren’t as smart as Asians, which is why they don’t bother, and why the NAACP prefers to sue the state over the admissions test rather than tell black parents that they should make their kids study harder.

I think that to blacks, HBD is equivalent to the n-word. Blacks relish in calling each other “nigger” while they get outrageously angry at any white person who dares to say the word “nigger.” It’s the same thing with HBD. Among themselves, blacks behave consistent with the belief that they aren’t as smart as whites or Asians, but get outraged at any white person who dares to hold to publicly state that, or even those that dare to publicly state that blacks should just study harder.

Will the issue over testing finally wake Asians up to the fact that blacks are their enemies, and any political party that is the friend of blacks, such as the Democratic Party, is the enemy of Asians?

* * *

Regarding the issue of whether or not studying helps, I am sure that the obsessive Asian studying is boosting their scores by at least half a standard deviation and maybe even a whole standard deviation over whites, which makes it more difficult for white kids to get into Stuyvesant. But blacks are so far behind Asians with respect to their average genetic intelligence that there is no amount of studying they could ever do to make up the IQ gap.

Comments

[Georgia Resident]

Of course, personality traits that make people more inclined to study, like conscientousness, are also at least moderately heritable, so saying that, on average, one group doesn't try as hard as another can still have HBD implications.

[Peter]

My reasoned guess is that relatively few people of any race believe in HBD. It's too easy to confuse the blogosphere with real life.

[helene edwards]

"get outrageously angry at any white person who dares to say the word “nigger.” speak to them at all.

[M Steinberg]

I noticed in the comments to a recent article on affirmative action in The Atlantic, that a number of dissenting comments were fro asian posters.

[Just Speculating]

"Will the issue over testing finally wake Asians up to the fact that blacks are their enemies, and any political party that is the friend of blacks, such as the Democratic Party, is the enemy of Asians?"

Yes, the real enemies of the Asians in this country are the 2 faced liberals, who say everything wrong about race, which has no effect on Asians whom they purportedly support with disgenunity. Of course, it would be with the exception of their policies, which has lessen their chances of being economically successful, in favor of Blacks who've yet demonstrated this capability.

[The Real Vince]

Democratic socialist Brian Barry's book WHY SOCIAL JUSTICE MATTERS has a thoughtful approach to effort and achievement which can be taken as: a person does not practice piano six hours in order to become good; she's so good that she practices six hours a day.

People do not do well on tests solely because they study; they study because they can reasonably expect to do well. If, alternatively, hours of study brought no appreciable gains, then why bother? Simple opportunity costs.

Jim can study for two hours and get an A on his chemistry final, or go to a party and risk a B- versus Frank who can study for 10 hours and get a B, or go to a party and get a gentleman's D (but he'll still pass because of lab participation and homework assignments).

[not too late]

"I am sure that the obsessive Asian studying is boosting their scores by at least half a standard deviation and maybe even a whole standard deviation over whites,"

Nah, probably less than a quarter. Those tests are very carefully designed and the test questions are tested for validity and reliability. So, no, you can't game the test with lots of studying. The questions are novel problem solving and hard to study for. They are not the kind of rote information or routine formulaic kind or straightforward questions. Studying helps a lot on spelling tests, but not on novel problem solving. A smart person who doesn't study his vocab will crash and burn but not on problem solving. A smart person who studies his vocab will ace his vocab, but that won't help him on problem solving.

[de Broglie]

@ not too late
Sigma said,
"I am sure that the obsessive Asian studying is boosting their scores by at least half a standard deviation and maybe even a whole standard deviation over whites,"

Any one who has taken a standardized test like the GMAT has to be aware that studying clearly increases your score. I think studying for the GMAT or SAT really allows you to be comfortable and perform at your peak level. However, I think Sigma was probably refering to a lifelong habit of studying. One does not simply solve math problems because one is clever. A lot of studying goes into being able to quickly identify problems and develop strategies. I think years of studying before the test is what really counts.

[S_McCoy]

Frankly I believe a large amount of black dysfunction is the result of whites coddling blacks: stop putting up their malarkey, call bs on all charges of racism and reward a few who crack the right skulls and I would wager a dramatic improvement in black behavior.

Of course that'll never happen so I'll continue to keep all wogs at arms length and never let them get too close behind me on the street.

[Bill]

"There are those who have the opinion that if the truth of HBD were widely known, this would be really bad for blacks, because they would give up or get low self esteem or something like that."

-

The outcome would be that American society treats blacks differently than whites.

I *hope* for a fair society where major racial and individual capabilities are understood to be affected by genes. In practice this means psychometric IQ and personality tests would the be main way of allocating educational and workforce opportunities. At the same time the elite would see themselves as responsible for the less fortunate yet not excuse or allow behavior obviously bad for society (note: bad for "society", not their own convenience).

Opponents fear a return to pre-civil rights or even antebellum norms where even high-IQ blacks (and certain others) are stuck in a permanent, disenfranchised underclass. They don't see a difference between it and traditional racist norms. I sympathize with this sentiment because frankly, even if the elites were on board the average person's "common sense" understanding HBD is too unsophisticated and emotional to support rational policies on the political level.

[uatu]

if republicans stopped sucking off jesus, asians/indian-americans would come over by the droves.

[de Broglie]

@uatu
It seems like the all the East Asian people I know, except for a Japanese guy, come from really Christian families. I don't think that is the problem.

[Jeff]

Support of Jesus doesn't hurt anybody.

[not too late]

"One does not simply solve math problems because one is clever."

Yes they do, especially the kind that are on a high school entrance test.

Those don't require fancy stuff like logarithms and trig. They just require reasoning and basic math, with the emphasis on reasoning. I had a book filled with super hard word problems for 5th and 6th graders. You had to have very good reading comprehension and problem solving to get those problems but only very basic math. Damned few kids could get those problems. Most adults would screw them up, too.

[Bilbo Baggins]

"if republicans stopped sucking off jesus, asians/indian-americans would come over by the droves."

I agree: Asians voted majority Republican as recently as 1992 for Bush 41 and are not as monolithically Democrat as blacks or even hispanics. A big reason they skew Democrat is because they live in predominantly blue states to begin with.

I predict Asians will start shifting toward the GOP as it gets less conservative on social issues over the next few decades and as Asians continue moving into flyover states. I don't know any Asian Democrats in states like Texas or Georgia, but I know plenty of Asian Republicans.

[not too late]

"if republicans stopped sucking off jesus, asians/indian-americans would come over by the droves."

Or maybe we just need more than two parties. The USA is more diverse than Europe, but we only have two major parties. That in itself is pretty ridiculous. If the conservative Christians had to work with something other than just Republicans or Democrats they would probably have their own parties like they do in Europe. Then their party or parties would have to form a coalition, likely with another conservative party like a secular party with a lot of Asians. Of course, if you are an elite who has to buy off politicians to get what you want, it is more expensive to buy off politicians in ten parties than in just two.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Of course, HBD denialism is in full force, because the high Asian scores are strictly explained as result of Asians studying too much, and this is bad for Asians (because they waster their childhood studying for tests) and bad for blacks"

1) Read between the lines: The Times isn't worried about blacks. This article is really addressing SWPL anxiety about Asians overrunning all of the elite prep schools/high schools in NY metro. Of course, the Times can't explicitly come out and say "Asians are hurting the elite white social scene". Instead they have to use blacks as a "dog whistle" to cover over their real anxiety.

"But it seems to me that blacks already believe in HBD and are aware that they aren’t as smart as Asians,"

2) Blacks are most likely to overestimate their own intelligence.

"Will the issue over testing finally wake Asians up to the fact that blacks are their enemies, and any political party that is the friend of blacks, such as the Democratic Party, is the enemy of Asians?"

3) Asians only vote Democrat at 60-40%. Sometimes they will evenly split their vote if the Democrats screw up badly enough.

4) Despite the teeny-weeny bit of racial hypocrisy on the part of the great, the noble, and the good of SWPLdom, I'm going to have to come down on the side of the SWPLs vis a vis of Asian immigration: There are too many Asian immigrants because they are driving up the cost of living in the best areas of the US for middle class and higher whites such as myself.

The Asians are driving up the value of the most desirable real estate in upper middle class areas because they're flooding the good private and public schools with their urchins.

As a result, the few remaining white majority private schools are now even more expensive because the middle and higher class whites are running out of non-NAM high schools to send their children to.

The Asians have driven high IQ white students out of elite schools in Northern Virginia, Cupertino and San Francisco. They also kill the social scene of neighborhoods and colleges they migrate into (Ward Connerly wrote about his off the record discussion with California state admission officials who feared Asian Californians would drive out all of the white students and kill the nightlife scene).

Some Asians in the neighborhood is not a big deal, but if there are so many that not even the successful whites can evade them, then we need to cut the flow off and start paying non-whites (yes, including Asians) to leave.

No further Asian immigration, thank you, if for no other reason than to save my own standard of living and so I don't eventually have to pay a million dollars a year to get my children into the last remaining private school in America that isn't 85% Asian.

[Kurtosis]

the blacks are hardly to blame. if offered such a sweet deal as AA does, would you decline it? i certainly wouldn't.

we will see that the asians will follow the jewish model: come to america, be successful and industrious (and be hated for it) but eventually assimilate into lazy americans, intermarry a lot, study useless things in college and live off of their well-to-do parents. i see this already en masse among younger jews i know, and the trend is picking up among asians.

jews and asians are stereotypically anti-social probably because of the high asperger's strain in their populations (high objective intelligence). but i hardly find a milieu full of jews and asians to be unpleasant. i rather like it.

[Kurtosis]

"No further Asian immigration, thank you, if for no other reason than to save my own standard of living and so I don't eventually have to pay a million dollars a year to get my children into the last remaining private school in America that isn't 85% Asian."

Quite true, but you are not likely to have your daughter raped by an asian or your son killed by an asian boy, that cho kid notwithstanding. Consider your alternatives in a world where zero-immigration just isn't going to happen.

[SFG]

I wonder if the Asians look at the last overachieving ethnic group and figure 'Gee, they all vote Democrat, must be good for us to do, too...'

[Meh]

"it seems to me that blacks already believe in HBD and are aware that they aren’t as smart as Asians"

Blacks are the classic example of "so dumb they don't know how dumb they are".

[Peter]

Whatever their flaws may be, at least Asians are calm and non-violent.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dcb_1351443776

[Chris]

The article claims the school is 72% asian. It is well past the tipping point.
I would not send my kids there.

They could improve the demographics by including an athletic component to this test. But they closed the door to change in 1972, I think I can guess why.

[asdf]

Losing a few slots to token blacks is the price Asians pay to keep America a "proposistion nation" rather then an ethnic state (like 99.9% of all historical countries including modern day Asia).

If whites all of a sudden developed racial conscious and decided America should primarily serve its white majority then Asians are up shits creek. They'd rather get 15% of the slots of Harvard then 0%.

[John]

"Will the issue over testing finally wake Asians up to the fact that blacks are their enemies, and any political party that is the friend of blacks, such as the Democratic Party, is the enemy of Asians?"

Seems a little extreme to declare them enemies...

[Just Speculating]

"If whites all of a sudden developed racial conscious and decided America should primarily serve its white majority then Asians are up shits creek. They'd rather get 15% of the slots of Harvard then 0%".

Ivy Leagues are a joke nowadays. Whites aren't missing anything at Harvard that the Asians are doing. Boring unsociable grinds in an over inflated school which produces unremarkable graduates. There are also more NAMs than ever before attending these schools. What does this tell you?

[Just Speculating]

@ TUJ

Your anger towards Asians is what I've been saying all along. Asians are parasitic just like NAMs, but are of a different species.

It's not going to stop until greedy Whites forego their lust for a quick buck. They are selling their souls to the rich Chinese. Just look at all the prime real estate in parts of NYC and California, the Chinese have a big stake and White real estate brokers have made off like bandits.

[asdf]

Kurtosis,

The difference with Jews is they are far less numerous, have no home country that could split their loyalty, and are basically "white".

SFG,

Asians tend to be very materialistic and status driven. They correctly note, especially in their urban coastal cities, that being a liberal is good for their career and social advancement so they become liberals. Lots of white people do it too.

[Kurtosis]

"Your anger towards Asians is what I've been saying all along. Asians are parasitic just like NAMs, but are of a different species."

Excuse me but what does that make the jews? everytime a goy transacts with a jew, he is hardly forced at gunpoint. if anything else, the violence historically flowed in the other direction. the jew got ahead in this world by dealing smarter and sharper. the asian is now doing the same thing, be he chinese or indian. big brains from ancient cultures.

maybe a stupid goy peasant may think of his wealthy jew neighbor as a parasite, but maybe he has just been outsmarted economically. the phenomenon we are observing has 2000 years worth of data points. there is no new science here.

[uatu]

@undiscoveredjew and @chris:

I can't think of an elite private school in the country that is majority asian. Stuy isn't private. TJ in NoVA isn't private either. In my experience in the DC area, private schools are looked down upon in the asian/indian community. Sending your asian/indian kid to one (like sidwell, landon, etc) is thought in asian/indian-amercian circles as 'trying too hard' and 'white-washing' your kids. I.E. why spend 50k for sidwell when Walt Whitman HS is free (those familiar to DC area schools will know what i mean).

It is funny reading TUJ's comments when WASP gentiles were saying the exact same thing about jews 70 years ago. Pot calling kettle black.

And regarding the weighting of athletic recruiting, asian/indian-americans are clued up on that as well. While I was not recruited athletically for college, my siblings were (and therefore attended much better undergrad schools than i did) because i found out just how powerful it was. Granted we wont be recruited in football, basketball, or baseball (unless we're jeremy lin) but there are a hell of a lot of other sports that get some slots at elite universities in the US.

My generation (20-40)'s asian/indian-american children are/will be pushed in athletics, that I have no doubt about.

TUJ is right that the NYT doesn't really care for blacks and elite public/magnet school admissions but echoing the fear that SWPL's and jews like TUJ have.

[not too late]

"If whites all of a sudden developed racial conscious and decided America should primarily serve its white majority then Asians are up shits creek. They'd rather get 15% of the slots of Harvard then 0%."

This whole line of reasoning makes no sense. If Asians are so awesome, why do they need Harvard? They could build something better in their own countries. Whites don't think they are up a creek if some other group doesn't deign to accept them. Whites just take off and do their own thing. Why don't Asians? What do they need whites for?

[Kurtosis]

"The difference with Jews is they are far less numerous,"

True

"...have no home country that could split their loyalty,"

I'll leave it to the board to decide whether this is entirely true.

[Sanjuro]

"Ivy Leagues are a joke nowadays. Whites aren't missing anything at Harvard that the Asians are doing. Boring unsociable grinds in an over inflated school which produces unremarkable graduates. There are also more NAMs than ever before attending these schools. What does this tell you?"

Indeed. Yale is certainly no longer the school of minds as great as it's past luminaries such as Josiah Gibbs (19th. C. Physicist spec. in thermodynamics, big influence on Einstein). Harvard is full of "fill in the blank - studies" charlatans like Obama pal Henry Gates, who push the NAM agenda and love under qualified NAM students. Obama's record at Harvard, or lack thereof, speaks volumes against the school. Princeton recruited showman Cornell West from Harvard: no comment is thus necessary for Pton!

Unremarkable is the watchword - in place of the genius of a Gibbs, we have empty suits like the gigolo John Kerry and Obama. Legions of AA NAM ivy grads like Michelle Obama ready to market their diversity snake oil to SWPL suckers. Vapid bankers who need the country club street cred of an ivy so they can gain entry into an avocation which contributes zilch to the sum of human knowledge.

The Oxbridge schools should be ranked higher than HYP: Oxford and Cambridge are still rather strict meritocracies in which academic performance governs admissions (and extracurricular activities are irrelevant, so "well rounded" over-achievers need not apply). A laser fine focus on studies relevant to one's major also helps STEM students at Oxbridge, by eliminating often superfluous gen ed classes.

[Hunter]

"The Asians are driving up the value of the most desirable real estate in upper middle class areas because they're flooding the good private and public schools with their urchins.

As a result, the few remaining white majority private schools are now even more expensive because the middle and higher class whites are running out of non-NAM high schools to send their children to."

Why not allow free association and give people the choice to exclude whomever they want - Asians or Swedes or Jews or Dominicans or whomever it might be - from their schools, neighborhoods, etc.?

[NAM Lurker]

Based on what "Bill" said (and TUJ's comment in the other post asking why Whites should help improve the performance of Blacks), if one is a high-IQ NAM (yeah, I know that for most of you that's an oxymoron) who accepts HBD, what's the most prudent political strategy? It doesn't seem like they'd have much to gain from taking an openly pro-HBD position. In terms of reproduction, given the small pool of high-IQ NAMs, it would also seem detrimental to be openly pro-HBD since you would be pretty much destroying your chances with potential non-NAM mates (reversion to the mean).

Have any the major Black conservatives (Sowell, Walter Williams, Justice Thomas, etc.) taken an openly pro-HBD position?

[Anon]

If blacks want more kids in the elite schools they should just demand that the schools only accept students from the boroughs in which they are located. That way Brooklyn will get a large number of blacks as the SWPLs in Brooklyn either don't have kids or wouldn't send them to a NAM school. Bronx science would be all hispanic. Queens would get all the Asians. Staten Island tech would get the whites of Staten Island. Harlem would be a problem, but just invent a new grievance of "geographic racism" forcing kids from Harlem to go all the way to Stuyvesant in lower Manhattan and demand a new school for northern Manhattan.

[Matthew Wolfinbarger]

Asians rightly see working class whites and big business as enemies, though I certainly agree that Asians tend to be relatively blind to the threats posed by poor blacks and Hispanics. At least when it comes to blacks, I think some of this is due to regional bias. Blacks on the west coast have substantially higher IQs than blacks in the South or mid-Atlantic, possibly by 10 points or more. This obviously would affect one's perception of blacks. I also tend to think that California Hispanics have higher IQs than Texas Hispanics, though this gap isn't quite as large as the regional gap for blacks (I would peg it at 3-5 points).

The white working class really does dislike Asians, and if anything, they hate successful blacks and Hispanics even more than the poor ones. Business almost certainly does discriminate against Asians; anyone who is different or socially left of center has a harder time getting a job, and this is a bigger problem in the U.S. than in other industrialized countries. Also, while the community and law enforcement, for example, have become far more tolerant in the last 30 years, business has actually become more socially right-wing (I believe this is one reason for our economic problems).

[asdf]

not too late,

Whites have capital, Asians don't. Most Asian nations were until recently very poor, and some still are relatively. This has been changing and will change more over the next two decades. Eventually Asians won't need whites anymore, at which point I expect this whole facade to peal away.

[asdf]

NAM Lurker,

The most prudent strategy is to become a race hustler or AA beneficiary. Like Obama or "Roger Too White".

[asdf]

Sanjuro,

HYP is about power and wealth. Advancements in human knowledge can just be stolen, Asians do it all the time. Power and wealth means dominance.

[jeanne]

"if republicans stopped sucking off jesus,"

If RR win and do a passable job, you will see such a shift. IMHO they are doing an admirable job of focusing their campaign on the economy, borrowing Newt's tactics to wrest control of the debate.

I don't think you can ask for any more than that.

[IHTG]

"It is funny reading TUJ's comments when WASP gentiles were saying the exact same thing about jews 70 years ago."

He sounds like a true patriot to me.

[justreal]

It's not white people's job to provide educations for East Asians. East Asians come to America and every other European-made country to take advantage of the institutions European people made. We are told East Asians have such high IQs and work hard, then why can't they make their own schools?

Yes, you can prepare for the SAT, PSAT or ACT and get higher scores. There are test prep organizations in East Asian neighborhoods, some of them are funded by the Chinese government. But East Asians would like us to believe they naturally got those high scores without test prep. There is also tremendous pressure to get excellent scores by East Asian parents.

[Just Speculating]

"The white working class really does dislike Asians, and if anything, they hate successful blacks and Hispanics even more than the poor ones".

Proles don't like anyone except themselves and the Republicans.

"If Asians are so awesome, why do they need Harvard? They could build something better in their own countries. Whites don't think they are up a creek if some other group doesn't deign to accept them".

I was in a Spanish class filled with Asians which is suprisingly rare. Everyone who isn't, even NAMs, for the most part have dropped out to avoid them. They study a foreign language like a STEM subject, with a grinding mentality and no passion. They are boring to the core when it comes to cultural discussions.

[Matthew Wolfinbarger]

justreal--
That's just a bunch of bull. There's all kinds of reasons East Asians are behind that have nothing to do with genetic inferiority. Most of it is that East Asia did not have the same luck historically as western Europe did (for that matter, Eastern Europe also was historically unfortunate).

[Kurtosis]

"It's not white people's job to provide educations for East Asians. East Asians come to America and every other European-made country to take advantage of the institutions European people made. We are told East Asians have such high IQs and work hard, then why can't they make their own schools?

Yes, you can prepare for the SAT, PSAT or ACT and get higher scores. There are test prep organizations in East Asian neighborhoods, some of them are funded by the Chinese government. But East Asians would like us to believe they naturally got those high scores without test prep. There is also tremendous pressure to get excellent scores by East Asian parents."

While it is true that these asians are better off than if they stayed home, it is not as if we do not gain. The people they directly displace for jobs and homes lose, but the other 95% gain from voluntary economic association with them. the okinawans who lose their farmland to US military base are offset by the many others who run bars and clubs and brothels, so to speak.

And if you think test prep is the only reason asian kids do well, you sound more like an hbd denier than any silly liberal.

[asdf]

I think in the absence of Asians you'd see STEM wages and prestige go up and then more whites would go into STEM. It's not that whites won't do it, they just won't do it given prevailing wages and conditions (which while a premium aren't much of a premium). Such conditions are the result of the fact that poor desperate Asians will put up with anything to not go back to their filthy poor countries. It's basic market power. We have enough high IQ whites to fill these STEM jobs.

[Just Speculating]

"It is funny reading TUJ's comments when WASP gentiles were saying the exact same thing about jews 70 years ago."

Jews are White. Jews were always part of the Western concious. Asians are not. Jews have proven that they are able to contribute to society despite a history of anti-Semitism. Asians have been better off, suffered less discrimination, but have not come close to any Jewish achievement in America.

[Matthew Wolfinbarger]

Immigrant Asians do tend to be on the boring side, also North Chinese and Japanese are more boring, i.e. more culturally conservative. But Koreans, Americanized South Chinese and Vietnamese all seem to be smart and hard-working as well as fun loving, if a bit underhanded (I have noticed this with those of South/East Euro descent and Jews as well--all the stuff about white ethnics, Jews, and Asians being sneaky/underhanded/monetarily amoral is not just racist garbage, it seems to be true to a large extent). Filipinos and Cambodians are also fun loving, and at least the ones who get to the U.S.A. seem to be at least as smart as whites, on average, as well as somewhat harder working. Though again, they are prone to underhandedness, even more so than Viet/Korean/South Chinese.

[Kurtosis]

i wonder how many of these commenters actually work in STEM.

[Anthony]

Asians, besides being smarter, are more conformist and more conscientious than whites.

The conformity is why most Asian countries are poorer than countries filled with people who aren't as smart, on average: there aren't nearly as many creative people to come up with new things to make or new ways to do things, and if someone powerful comes up with a new *bad* way to do things, the whole society can go down *really* ruinous dead ends like the Cultural Revolution.

The conscientiousness tends to exaggerate the effects of conformity, both for good and for bad. Most admissions "aptitude" tests aren't 100% g-loaded, and much of the residual measures conscientiousness in studying the subject matter. So from the POV of an HBD-aware admissions officer, the fact that the tests are not entirely g-loaded is a feature, not a bug - who wants to spend effort on a smart person who won't do anything with it? But since the residual is (mostly) conscientiousness-linked, Asians will be able to do better on it (on average) than whites, and will end up with a higher gap in scores than the gap in IQs.

[HS: Japan is wealthy and so is Singapore.]

[.]

After reading all these comments on the issue, I've come to the conclusion that I don't give a damn. Who wants kids in the first place?

[Black_Rose]

"

I think in the absence of Asians you'd see STEM wages and prestige go up and then more whites would go into STEM. It's not that whites won't do it, they just won't do it given prevailing wages and conditions (which while a premium aren't much of a premium). Such conditions are the result of the fact that poor desperate Asians will put up with anything to not go back to their filthy poor countries. It's basic market power. We have enough high IQ whites to fill these STEM jobs."

I guess the relatively low wages of STEM fields and its commensurately low prestige (even though it is still regarded highly for low middle class people) gives the Venerable Half Sigma's Value Transference theory some credence: STEM is not conducive to value transference activities despite the relatively high-g floor for proficiency; hence it has low prestige among the elite.

is asdf's reasoning is correct, then in the STEM fields, wages and prestige raise and fall in tandem. But it seems there is a limit to the demand (from employers) of STEM jobs and a ceiling for STEM compensation due to limited demand and lack of value transference. I don't see how fewer foreigners would improve working conditions for STEM grad students (such as not having to work a 60 hour week) or increase the available tenure track positions for STEM PhDs.

[asdf]

Kurtosism,

I assume most, especially if you add any kind of financial engineering professions.

[Matthew Wolfinbarger]

Anthony, I disagree. Asians are conformist because their cultures haven't advanced as much as the West has. Japan is still stuck in the 1950s, China in the 19th century or earlier, and even culturally more open South Korea has only recently (20 years) escaped dictatorship. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore are all limited by their small land areas.

More generally speaking, I think that whites just aren't as great as pro-white people claim they are--all whites have is OK genetics and a lot of historical luck. Northeast and Central East (say between 25 and 40 N, excluding Japan which I would lump with the north thanks to it being an island*) has a *huge* advantage in IQ and conscientiousness over whites, I'd say 2/3 SD in each. Vietnamese are still probably around 1/3 SD over whites, Cambodians and Filipinos about equal (though still some edge in conscientiousness), with only the Hmong, Thais, Indonesians, and Malaysians slightly trailing whites.

When it comes to blacks and Hispanics, the actual genetically based gaps are probably only about have as large as the observed ones (putting blacks at 92/93 and Hispanics at around 95). Blacks also have a disadvantage in conscientiousness, though they also have advantages in entertainment, which if you enjoy and kind of rock, blues, or jazz is no small thing. Hispanics are also reasonably good in grind-it-out jobs like the trades and low-level retail management. Though I am against further unfiltered Hispanic immigration, I believe America is better off for Hispanics; construction, auto work, plumbing, and retail goods (not just stoop labor ones, see above about low-level retail management) would all be substantially more expensive without Hispanics.

And anybody who thinks Asian immigration is bad, or that Jewish and Southern/Eastern European immigration were bad, has their head up their @$$.

*Japan's insularity and persistent cultural conservatism, IMO, have a lot to do with it being an island nation. A lot of the cultural right-wing crap in the U.S. also has a lot to do with England and the Celtic countries (who make up America's core ethnic stock) being islands. The U.K. itself is more culturally moderate now, to an extent, thanks to its proximity to Europe. I am not sure exactly how Canada and Australia have escaped cultural backwardness, given their having Anglo-Celtic ethnic cores. It may have to do with the particular subgroups who came to America, such as the Puritans and Scots-Irish, who are culturally right-wing.

[Aaron]

"Will the issue over testing finally wake Asians up to the fact that blacks are their enemies, and any political party that is the friend of blacks, such as the Democratic Party, is the enemy of Asians?"

Asians are actually less Democratic than blacks, Hispanics, or Jews. They voted 62 percent for Obama in 2008 and voted Republican for president in the 1990s, while blacks voted 90%+ for Obama and Bill Clinton, and while Jews voted 78% for Obama and similarly high for Clinton, Gore, and Kerry:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/331888/changing-demographics-and-gop-michael-barone

[asdf]

Matthew,

Your numbers don't actually match up with anything we know.

http://www.sq.4mg.com/IQgap.htm

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Based on what "Bill" said (and TUJ's comment in the other post asking why Whites should help improve the performance of Blacks), if one is a high-IQ NAM (yeah, I know that for most of you that's an oxymoron) who accepts HBD, what's the most prudent political strategy?"

Not that I'm expecting NAMs to embrace HBD, but their best strategy would be to embrace policies that minimize how much disruption minorities cause whites (such as sterilization of criminals) because the less whites have to deal with average non-white tendencies the more likely they would be willing to deal with the above average blacks as individuals.

They could also embrace eugenics to improve the black gene pool. According to the book "I the Name of Eugenics" WEB Dubois supported eugenics and openly stated blacks were behind whites in evolutionary terms.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Why not allow free association and give people the choice to exclude whomever they want - Asians or Swedes or Jews or Dominicans or whomever it might be - from their schools, neighborhoods, etc.?"

I don't care about free association of small rural localities because I have no interest in living in some inbred militia group; I want pro-white demographic policies imposed by the federal government on all 50 states that will expand the white American population in the least morally objectionable ways possible.

[HS: That would be unconstitutional, so it's not going to happen.]

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"It is funny reading TUJ's comments when WASP gentiles were saying the exact same thing about jews 70 years ago. Pot calling kettle black."

Jews aren't comparable to Asian immigrants because there aren't 2 billion Ashkenazim potential immigrants for us to import and because the Jews are genetically white (Ashkenazi are descended from Hellenic era Jews who converted Greeks, Romans, and Anatolian Turks to Judaism).

The genetic relationship between white gentiles and Ashkenazi is similar to upper caste Indians to their surrounding Indian population: like upper caste Indians, Jews are a genetically related subset of Europeans that developed high intelligence because they were reproductively isolated from the surrounding population due to the Roman Empire outlawing conversion to Judaism 1500 years ago (which is the same time the flow of European DNA into Jews largely came to an end) and thanks to Jews occupying niche jobs that selected for higher intelligence.

Physically, Jews aren't easily distinguishable from other Europeans (Nazi Germany famously put used a fully Jewish model to portray the "Ideal Aryan Soldier" in a Wehrmacht recruitment poster). In general, Jews look like short European brunettes and are harder to distinguish from Northern Europeans than Southern Europeans.

There's also the fact Christianity is a breakaway sect of Judaism and much of Europe's philosophical foundation is based on Jewish theological foundations.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Asians rightly see working class whites and big business as enemies,"

I don't agree that Asians are hostile to whites. East Asians will often Anglicize their first names to make it easier for white Americans to pronounce their names.

The problem with Asian immigrants is that they don't assimilate as well as white immigrants because Asian psychological profiles don't fit as well in European social/political/cultural settings as well as European immigrants do.

Since cultural compatibility lies on a spectrum, Asians are more assimilable than NAMs but not as assimilable as white immigrants. Since whites make better immigrants, we should not allow Asians to immigrate in order to preserve the culture.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"And anybody who thinks Asian immigration is bad, or that Jewish and Southern/Eastern European immigration were bad, has their head up their @$$."

Asian immigration is bad because culture comes from race and Asian aren't interchangeable with whites for evolutionary reasons.

Culture is directly linked to race because the various races through trial and error set up cultures that were most compatible with their own race's evolved characteristics.

Asians don't have the same psychological profile as whites, and this means that too many Asians will destroy the culture of America just as too many Asians in California has culturally destroyed large portions of California because they aren't, albeit, the effect hasn't been as bad as Mexican immigration.

Only whites should be allowed to American because whites assimilate better in Western nations than non-whites.

[HS: Do you know any Japanese-Americans? They are very much just like whites in the way they behave.]

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"That's just a bunch of bull. There's all kinds of reasons East Asians are behind that have nothing to do with genetic inferiority. Most of it is that East Asia did not have the same luck historically as western Europe did (for that matter, Eastern Europe also was historically unfortunate)."

China was wealthy for many centuries before the 20th century but they never produced scientific geniuses like the Europeans did.

Since there is no Asian equivalent to the best European minds like Newton, Gauss, and Euler, we can conclude that Asian cognitive abilities are not as advanced as European cognitive abilities.

[HS: Or they just arrived a few hundred years too late to the Renaissance and then the Industrial Revolution. Really, you are jumping to unwarranted conclusions.]

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"[HS: Japan is wealthy and so is Singapore.]"

We have very little immigration from Japan, in part, because Japan is wealthy. I believe we only get 1000 Japanese immigrants a year. However, it may take decades for the rest of Asia to catch up with Japan, and we shouldn't wait for Asia to become wealthier to implement whites only immigration and end Asian immigration to white nations.

[HS: Most Japanese have no desire to move the the U.S. for the same reason that most Americans have no desire to move to Japan.]

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"While it is true that these asians are better off than if they stayed home, it is not as if we do not gain. The people they directly displace for jobs and homes lose,"

You're underestimating the damage large amounts of Asian immigration causes to Western nations. Asians assimilate best when they are surrounded by other white people. But if there is too much Asian immigration, they start racially balkanazing the country and never assimilate because they revert back to their cultural norms.

When they start balkanazing they start destroying white standards of living because whites have to give up old neighborhoods and cities and move to fewer and fewer areas of the country that are white.

Asian immigration should be opposed on HBD grounds. Whites only immigration is the only sensible policy alternative.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"I can't think of an elite private school in the country that is majority asian. Stuy isn't private. TJ in NoVA isn't private either. In my experience in the DC area, private schools are looked down upon in the asian/indian community. Sending your asian/indian kid to one (like sidwell, landon, etc) is thought in asian/indian-amercian circles as 'trying too hard' and 'white-washing' your kids. I.E. why spend 50k for sidwell when Walt Whitman HS is free (those familiar to DC area schools will know what i mean)."

This is even worse for whites than being driven out of private schools (which must be happening in some parts of the country because private schools can't use tuition as a screen against wealthy Asian applicants like they can against NAMs).

If Thomas Jefferson and similar elite public schools force smart white Americans to leave because there are too many Asians then that means white Americans have to pay out more money for private school tuition while Asians get to attend free public schools at the expense of white tax payers.

Why should my property taxes go to subsidize high quality public schools for Asians that I, like other upper middle and upper class whites, wouldn't send my own children to due to their being too many Asian students?

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"I don't see how fewer foreigners would improve working conditions for STEM grad students (such as not having to work a 60 hour week) or increase the available tenure track positions for STEM PhDs."

Fewer foreign students would raise wages for white American STEM students. Of course, white immigrants would also compete for jobs with other white Americans to.

The major reason to oppose Asian immigration is that Asian immigrants bring evolutionary compatibility issues that European immigrants don't.

European immigrants are less likely to drive whites out of neighborhoods and high quality public and private schools because white Americans can interact more smoothly with European immigrants than any other race.

Speaking for myself, if a good public school becomes 85% European immigrant I wouldn't pull my kids out because Europeans are more psychologically compatible with American civilization than Asians. If the school becomes 85% Asian then I would have to withdraw them from such an abomination of a school.

[NAM Lurker]

asdf, does your answer also apply to a world in which HBD were mainstream and could affect policy?

[Anon]

"The problem with Asian immigrants is that they don't assimilate as well as white immigrants because Asian psychological profiles don't fit as well in European social/political/cultural settings as well as European immigrants do."

No. The reason Asian immigrants don't assimilate as well is because they can see in the mirror that they are not white. To be a member of an ethnic group is to have an emotional attachment to the history of that group. Whites can integrate in that they can come to see American history as their history. My great grandparents came from Germany, but I don't give a damn about German history or see myself as a German. The history I identify with is American history--the Pilgrims, the Revolution, the Civil War, etc.. Asians, and Africans will never come to see that history as their history, and never come to have an emotional attachment to that history, because in your race you wear your history on your sleeve, as it were.

[asdf]

HS,

I lived in Japan and my best friend from HS was half white half Japanese. Yes, they are very different. Japanese Americans are usually Japanese that self selected out of Japanese society because their cognitive profile didn't match the rest of the Japanese. Even then you could see the genetic legacy in my friends attitudes.

[asdf]

NAM Lurker,

Obviously no. Your first and primary responsibility would be to deny the very HBD you based your career and personal life on.

[IHTG]

TUJ: The "Ideal German Soldier" model, Werner Goldberg, was half-Jewish. He did LOOK quite Jewish, to me at least.

[Matthew Wolfinbarger]

My biggest concerns about Asian immigration are (1) Tendency towards corruption [though this is an issue with white ethnics and Jews too, admittedly perhaps to a lesser extent], (2) The possibility that there are few major scientific advancements within our reach, making the flood of Asians into STEM a near zero sum game, and (3) Abuse of the H1b system to attract obedient Asian immigrants and further make workplaces more hostile to less conventional people [though this will take care of itself to an extent, Americanized Asians seem if anything more Continental European like in culture, i.e. more culturally liberal].

The corruption thing is my biggest concern, given the stagnation in Southern and Eastern Europe, Israel, and the East Asian democracies. Even white ethnics may be contributing to today's problems in the U.S.; a major part of cultural liberation, IMO, has been the de-Anglo-Saxonization of the U.S.A. since the mid-1960s. To put it shortly, non-Anglo-Saxon-Celtic peoples seem to believe in _The 48 Laws of Power_ more (Robert Greene, the author of The 48 Laws of Power, is himself is Jewish, Machiavelli was Italian).

The lack of potential scientific advances available hopefully is temporary--this appeared to be the case in the 1970s but was followed by the digital revolution in the 1980s and 1990s.

[asdf]

My last job was the first majority white job I ever worked at. Probably 80%+ white males in my department. Before and after that it's always been a mix, mostly Asian. Same was true growing up.

I'm going to echo TUJ in noting that it is unbelievably pleasant to be around people like yourself. Every interaction is more pleasant. We also were a lot more productive as a team and looked out for each others interests. We were "as one" so to speak. By contrast when I've worked on mixed race teams there have always been difficulties related to this. Miscommunications, mistrust, or simply that its way harder to be social in and out of the office.

Also, let's be honest, racism is still alive and well for non whites. If you get an Indian department head then the department soon becomes all Indian. So promotions and hiring take on a racial conflict angle because you know racial favoritism is going to be there. By contrast in the all white department there was none of this and it was much more merit based and cooperative.

So I wouldn't dismiss what TUJ is saying about cognitive profiles.

[Matthew Wolfinbarger]

My numbers regarding nonwhite IQs are just guesses, but they seem reasonable to me. I just doubt that 100 percent of the observed deficit in black and Hispanic IQ is genetic; 50% seems a more reasonable estimate on the face of it.

As for the Asian IQ numbers, one has to remember that Asians are still recovering from cultural backwardness; as I have stated earlier, East Asians seem to have clearly been less historically fortunate than Euros, and Northwest Euros in particular.

[asdf]

On another note the Asian cognitive profile is different in cultural contexts as well. For instance at my job I'm trying to get my boss fired for corruption. As a white person I see it as a moral issue. The Asians by contrast are very reluctant to question authority, even authority they know to be very wrong. Additional Asians does change the culture because they have different values.

[Matthew Wolfinbarger]

Seems to me that white views of Asians depend heavily on the environment that said whites grew up in. Whites who grew up around lots of Asians tend to be pro-Asian or at least not anti-Asian, whereas whites who grew up in near-all white environments see Asians as incorrigible foreigners. I'll admit I'm especially pro-Asian in part because, thanks to some dark-skinned Asian day care sitters who loved children a little too much, I was rather intimate with Asians at a very early age.

[Matthew Wolfinbarger]

asdf,
As I stated earlier Asians are definitely more on the Machiavellian side. But many whites seem to have this amoral outlook as well, especially younger whites and culturally more liberal whites, as well as, again stated earlier, white ethnics.

The massive increase in the use of narcotic pharmaceuticals and "medical" marijuana in the last 15 years also may be contributing to moral relativism.

On the other hand, I don't think moral relativism is a completely bad thing. Moral absolutism can lead to ideological, rigid thinking and therefore be crippling, both to individuals and organizations. Paleoconservative writer James Burnham (in the 1940s) wrote a whole book called _The Machiavellians: Defenders of Freedom_. The Founding Fathers also seem to have very Continental/Eastern views of power. Moral absolutists can be far too trusting of the powers that be--on the other hand, moral relativists may see it as in their interests to go along with corrupt people in power.

[Kurtosis]

"On another note the Asian cognitive profile is different in cultural contexts as well. For instance at my job I'm trying to get my boss fired for corruption. As a white person I see it as a moral issue. The Asians by contrast are very reluctant to question authority, even authority they know to be very wrong. Additional Asians does change the culture because they have different values."

the first generation ones tend to be like this as you say, but by the second generation, they stupidly go to the wall for "moral" issues as you are. case in point: know one asian guy who is actually a military member (man bites dog, i know) who was retired/contractor and blew the whistle on a crooked unit in the national lab. they shitcanned him so fast it wasn't even funny. been out of work since. so, since aisans are so heavily first-generation, it's going to be a while before we can determine whether these traits are really genetic, or remediable with exposure to american culture.

[Kurtosis]

"Why should my property taxes go to subsidize high quality public schools for Asians that I, like other upper middle and upper class whites, wouldn't send my own children to due to their being too many Asian students?"

Many parents echo this thought. However, can a NAM taxpayer not say the same thing as his children are overwhelmingly unlikely to ever make it into a Stuy, BHS or TJ type school?

And I hardly think that 85% asians in a school is an abomination. The worst case scenario is that my child ends up dating/marrying an asian (which is what i see most with whites stuck in those environments). he will not be stabbed, shot or bullied. he may be pushed even harder academically.

having lived in many places, i have known many asians, many indians and many jews. if i can't be in an all-white area (outside of the redneck places and the survivalist places, are there any left?), these are all alternatives that i can EASILY live with. because i have also seen the alternatives to these groups. which many of you are forgetting.

[RandomMedStudent]

Basically all the supposed superior innovations of the white race (compared ot the Asian race) is all something achieved in the past 500 years or so; something happened (Renaissance?) in Europe in the last few hundred years that instigated a period of great progress and discovery.

Periods of innovation and discovery come and go. For a 1000 years after the fall of the Roman Empire, Europeans essentially "forgot" the technological innovations of Rome and regressed - this is the Dark Age. Romans had aqueducts to supply clean water to their homes and to flush their toilets; but it wasn't until the 1800s when citizens of London or Paris stopped dumping human waste on to the streets.

If one could go back to the world a 1000 years ago, it would easily seem that the Whites are mindless copiers who dogmatically follow Christianity and do not invent anything. Asians at that time were building great canals, inventing gun powder, and building great walls. It appears to me that Asia entered a dark age when Europe was breaking out of it; but I can't explain what drove those changes.

[justreal]

Matthew Wolfinbarger wrote "thanks to some dark-skinned Asian day care sitters who loved children a little too much, I was rather intimate with Asians at a very early age."

You didn't even have to write that. Most guessed already that your adoration of Asians had to do with sex. It usually does.

Kurtosis, all you look for in a person is if they don't kill you? Sadly, that is the attitude of many white people. They don't care about the future of white society as long as the psuedo-replacements are not murderous, petty thieves, batterers, rapists, and careless babymakers they are fine. The reality is East Asians and South Asians are no replacements for white people, they are their own people and they create different environments that are hostile to white people. East and South Asians move to white areas and have children. They are comfortable enough with what white people create that they actually have and raise kids IN white society. White people avoid East and South Asian areas and don't produce or raise kids in those environments. And that is without all the violence and dyfunction that comes with black or Latino people.

[IHTG]

"I'll admit I'm especially pro-Asian in part because, thanks to some dark-skinned Asian day care sitters who loved children a little too much, I was rather intimate with Asians at a very early age."

wat.

[Asian American Army veteran]

"The history I identify with is American history--the Pilgrims, the Revolution, the Civil War, etc.. Asians, and Africans will never come to see that history as their history, and never come to have an emotional attachment to that history, because in your race you wear your history on your sleeve, as it were."

Not true. I'm a 1st generation Asian American and I view American history as my history. My 'genetic' connection to the whole of American history, though, is my military service. No one is born an American soldier. One can only become a soldier by joining the Army, giving loyalty oaths, and undergoing deeply rooted rites of passage. Yet the American military is older than the American nation. The 1st president of the nation first commanded the nation's military in the Revolutionary War. The American military gave birth to the American nation, preserved it in war, and the nation has been guarded and shepherded by the military throughout.

I'm a 1st generation American according to my family's history, but my lineage in this country reaches back to before the founding of the nation according to my military's history. And as a veteran, the US Army is *my* Army.

So, if you want Americans across the racial spectrum to identify as full-blooded Americans, I suggest encouraging all Americans to serve in the military. An Asian American can't be a white American can't be a black American, but all can be military/veteran Americans. We are the essence of the country.

FYI, I'm also a Stuy grad.

[asdf]

Asian American Army veteran,

The military used to serve as a binding mechanism for all sorts of races and classes in America. I think it also got people into thinking of America as a thing rather then some strangers randomly stuck together.

Unfortunetly, today the military is mostly where poor people without options go and is considered very low status. We have perhaps lost something here.

[jasonrifkind]

"I don't care about free association of small rural localities because I have no interest in living in some inbred militia group"

Free association by definition means that you wouldn't live in a rural area with some inbred militia group if you didn't want to. It would mean upper middle and upper class whites could live in their own cities and enclaves and exclude whomever they wanted. Inbred hicks in militias could live in their own areas out in the boonies somewhere and exclude whomever they wanted.

[jasonrifkind]

"Whites can integrate in that they can come to see American history as their history. My great grandparents came from Germany, but I don't give a damn about German history or see myself as a German. The history I identify with is American history--the Pilgrims, the Revolution, the Civil War, etc.. Asians, and Africans will never come to see that history as their history, and never come to have an emotional attachment to that history, because in your race you wear your history on your sleeve, as it were."

This is actually just a variation of the "race is a social construct" or "race is only skin deep" idea. The actual history of "the Pilgrims, the Revolution, the Civil War, etc." was the history of a specific genetic group, not any and all whites. Divorcing this history from its actual specific genetic group, and attributing it more generally to white newcomers who weren't part of the history, was actually promoting a variation of the race (i.e. genetic grouping) is a "social construct" or only skin deep idea. It paved the way for what we see now where the history is universalized and generalized to an even larger circle of people.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Basically all the supposed superior innovations of the white race (compared ot the Asian race) is all something achieved in the past 500 years or so; something happened (Renaissance?) in Europe in the last few hundred years that instigated a period of great progress and discovery.

Periods of innovation and discovery come and go. For a 1000 years after the fall of the Roman Empire, Europeans essentially "forgot" the technological innovations of Rome and regressed - this is the Dark Age."

The Dark Ages constitute a 500 year decline of Europe, and even then, the decline wasn't uniform: Italy made it through the Dark Ages in good shape and Greek dominated Byzantium survived the Western Empire by 1000 years.

And even in antiquity, Europeans have demonstrated scientific genius that has surpassed Asians - who is the Asian equivalent to Archimedes?

"If one could go back to the world a 1000 years ago, it would easily seem that the Whites are mindless copiers who dogmatically follow Christianity and do not invent anything. Asians at that time were building great canals, inventing gun powder, and building great walls. It appears to me that Asia entered a dark age when Europe was breaking out of it; but I can't explain what drove those changes."

If Asians were as or more prosperous and socially developed as Europeans for the past 3000 years then why don't they produce scientific geniuses?

The answer must be that they are incapable of doing so if they've had 3 millennia and long stretches of prosperity to foment scientific genius. They've also produced no artistic genius, the sculptures of classical Greece alone dwarf anything produced in Asia.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"Free association by definition means that you wouldn't live in a rural area with some inbred militia group if you didn't want to. It would mean upper middle and upper class whites could live in their own cities and enclaves and exclude whomever they wanted."

I don't see why this should be favored by a nationwide white America demographic policy.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"[HS: That would be unconstitutional, so it's not going to happen.]"

We've had Supreme Courts interpret the constitution to allow state endorsed racial segregation and we've also had essentially whites only immigration for most of our history, especially during the Great Wave migration. , If whites really wanted to impose a white America demographic policy, they'd find a way to make it constitutional.

Anyway, a white America policy would be easy to achieve logistically and with minimal disruption; just paying non-whites $100,000 (or any sum over $50 large) per family member to leave and implement whites only immigration would lead to a massive improvement. It's more of an issue of whites not wanting to restore their demographics through sensible policies, not inability. Whites, after all, colonized all of these people we are letting in and had them eating out of our hands with only a relatively miniscule colonial force. If whites put their foot down it would quite simple to impose good policies.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"[HS: Do you know any Japanese-Americans? They are very much just like whites in the way they behave.]"

I know a number second and third generation Chinese and Korean Americans and I know that, while they make an effort to assimilate, their psychological profile is not as interchangeable with my white friends as the psychological profile of the white immigrants I know.

There's no way for me, and even SWPL whites, to form as meaningful relationships with assimilated Asians as we can with white immigrants. Associating with whites is just smoother and clicks more naturally.

I agree that there is probably an Asian threshold where whites can tolerate their environs being a certain percentage Asian without losing social cohesian. But once the "Asian threshold", so to speak is surpassed, you still wind up with ethnic balkanazition and a lower quality of life for more upscale and middle class whites.

The reality is that whites - even the always "caring" SWPLs who have a noticeable dislike of Asians - have a much higher "white threshold" than they do for Asians.

If elite public and public schools like TJ in NoVA and in San Francisco suddenly became 50% French immigrant that SWPLs would be pulling their children out of those public schools? If anything, they would be fighting to get into a French majority school in order to signal all important and soul nourishing social status.

[The Undiscovered Jew]

"This is actually just a variation of the "race is a social construct" or "race is only skin deep" idea. The actual history of "the Pilgrims, the Revolution, the Civil War, etc." was the history of a specific genetic group, not any and all whites. Divorcing this history from its actual specific genetic group,"

Where does this hostility to ethnic whites come from?

Could the WNs/paleoconservatives or whatever please shut the hell up; it's already hard enough to get any traction with HBD without you morons racially insulting Irish, Italian, Greek, white Cuban/Hispanic, Polish, and Eastern European Americans for not being "WASP".

[Asian American Army veteran]

asdf,

The "binding mechanism" of military service is still there. I agree too many Americans have lost sight of it, but not seeing it doesn't mean it's gone. The US Army heritage, writ in the American blood sacrificed in service of the country since before the founding, is etched as deep as ever.

Becoming an American soldier - earning one's acceptance in the essential American tribe - is a profound passage for a 1st generation American. It has been thus for white immigrants, newly freed blacks, and other marginalized striving Americans, along with Asian Americans.

For those today who evaluate military service as "very low status", I question how much they value their American citizenship. It's a litmus test for basic tribal loyalty to this country.

Last year, the Ivy League re-embraced ROTC. It was a step in the right direction.

[Kurtosis]

"Kurtosis, all you look for in a person is if they don't kill you? Sadly, that is the attitude of many white people. "

Perhaps it is sad, but life is not about ideal situations but the best of bad alternatives.

[Kurtosis]

"I know a number second and third generation Chinese and Korean Americans and I know that, while they make an effort to assimilate, their psychological profile is not as interchangeable with my white friends as the psychological profile of the white immigrants I know."

This is true. If there was no anti-asian prejudice and these people can grow up without chips on their shoulders, assimilation would happen overnight. similar problem with the jews. if anti-semitism disappeared, jews would assimilate completely. look at the disapora of the jew of china. no catholic church in china to orchestrate massive jew-hating, and in a few generations, the jews all but disappeared as a coherent ethnic unit in china. interbred to the point of indistinguishability. i work with a jew at work who is very conscious of these matters. i think it is a bit sad; it seems to detract so much from his enjoyment of life.

[asdf]

Asian American Army veteran,

Sadly, elites do not see themselves as American citizens and consider such "nationalistic" attitudes to be backward and low status. To be elite you should be cosmopolitan or global and not care about your own country.

[HS: This is true, especially for the liberal elites.]

[Just Speculating]

"If there was no anti-asian prejudice and these people can grow up without chips on their shoulders, assimilation would happen overnight".

What no one has talked about is that Asians are very prejudiced towards one another and the assimlated ones are hostile towards their own who are not. Further, a growing number of Asian women neither want to date nor marry their own men. Asian men have a hard time assimilating because of their less desirable physical features. Women of most races do not find them attractive. It would be better if Asians stay out of White nations and settle their tensions back home.

[Anon]

"I'm a 1st generation Asian American and I view American history as my history."
Seriously? I don't believe you. You seriously see, say, George Washington as part of "my" history and not part of what whites did? If I asked an Indian whether they saw Ghandi as part of their history or George Washington, they would surely see Ghandi as their history, and Washington as part of white American's history. Malcolm X was exactly right when he parodied integration for requiring Americans to have the same sense of history when he said "We didn't land on Plymouth Rock. Plymouth Rock landed on us." African-Americans will never, and should never, come to see the "white" history as their history. Proponents of integration fail to be able to put themselves in another's shoes and perceive how their identity is formed by their sense of their history and the lessons learned from it. To white readers, try this thought experiment, instead of seeing yourself as having whatever history you believe you have, try to imagine if your ancestors were slaves, and the emotional effect this has on you: brought to America in chains, hundreds of years of slavery, Jim Crow, civil rights etc. Such a radically different conception of ones history produces radically different values. In the case of African-Americans, it produces a deep belief in the power of the Federal government to improve your life and safeguard your freedoms. On the other hand, the white history of seeking freedom FROM government produces its distinctive right-leaning values. Values are not the universal a priori results of pure reason, a toxic belief in the Western world. Values are the lessons of history.

[asdf]

Anon,

There are some non-whites who come to view American history as their own. They are a minority but it is quite noble.