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November 23, 2012

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It's not so odd. Detroit real estate is very cheap, and sooner or later the citys bound to experience a turnaround (in fact one may already be starting).

I enjoyed the picture too. Righteous beard. Guys like that are usually so intelligent, but they never put 2+2 together as far as people are concerned, as in, how did Detroit get so effed up in the first place. Do they have Asperger's or are they just deeply brainwashed?

America introduced a new paradigm: whites create civilization, blacks destroy all of our works, then whites come in and create civilization, then...

Good. I once said if young people could achieve absolute status in flyover country - Midwest America, instead of relative status in the coastal liberal cities, we would be better off economically and perhaps socially.

Is Detroit a real estate investment opportunity? The Patent Office just opened up a branch there.

In a decade or so, Detroit will have become gentrified with lots of organic health markets and yoga studios. Many young, intelligent, artistic, idealistic and educated folks are moving there. Brooklyn, Oakland and other former crappy dumps are just too pricey. Detroit is the next frontier for hipsters to make stuff happen, which will then cause real estate prices to skyrocket. Buy real estate there now while it's dirt cheap.

21st century pioneer spirit lives on in whites.

Detroit has to become somewhat pleasant before it can have property values high enough to keep out undesirables. So what happens then?

Is the plan just to have the area be so suffused with fringe hipsterism that noone else can bear to live there? That would put a definite upper limit of detroit rejuvenation.

The newgeography article has an absurd libertarian bent (wouldnt it be great to put a two story beehive in a residential neighborhood? Anything less would be rank government oppression!). Its libertarianism and the liberalization of the real estate market that destroyed (or at least vastly accelerated the decline of) cities like Detroit. Letting anyone with the cash buy from anyone willing to sell it to them and then letting the owners do whatever they want is no foundation for a community worth living in.

Peter says:
"It's not so odd. Detroit real estate is very cheap, and sooner or later the citys bound to experience a turnaround (in fact one may already be starting)."

doubtful
Nothing of financial significance ever happens unless the 1% throw their money into an idea. The elites are obviously not investing in Detroit. They are putting their money elsewhere.

Drole Prole is spot on. This is the exact pattern of gentrification that has happened in cities worldwide. As unlikely as Detroit seems for this transformation, so did NYC's meatpacking district or Sydney's The Rocks or Toronto's Cabbagetown at one point.

"As cheap as it is to buy real estate in Detroit, it still doesn't make sense. Why not buy real estate that's almost-as-cheap in a small town in the middle-of-nowhere that isn't invested with the lumpenproletariat?"

Because there's a chance that the same geographic advantages that made Detroit a boom town once will make it one once again. Not so much for a middle-of-nowhere small town.

On 4chan's /k/ (weapons) and /pol/ (politically incorrect politics) boards this past summer, they discussed for about a few weeks the possibility and plan of purchasing cheap real estate and run-down housing in the middle of the worst sections of Detroit. They wanted to establish a compound base of operations and defend their territory to eventually build a Utopian city. They called it "Operation: Take Back Detroit." Was entertaining and very fascinating.

Here is the link to the google doc of the plan:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MyF733vW4FCspuyX2YWPjYPCgdJJLGR49TfslWUM4xA/edit?pli=1#heading=h.laz5igdy2sqa

Bumblefuck, Nowhere does not have the same potential as Detroit.

Here is another take on what happened and is happening with Detroit, which I'm pretty sure that 90% of the people who frequent this site will strongly disagree with:

http://www.economic-undertow.com/2012/11/22/japan-detroit/

Anyway, while responding to the comments, the blogger makes the sensible point that there is lots of industrial waste within the city, which, along with the lack of jobs, means that the land there may well be a bad deal even if given away.

Can you free ride off these guys? Say buy a derelict propert near their activities and wait?

People investing in Detroit are throwing their money away. NYC was clearly going places: lots of global rich people moving in, with the NYPD made into basically, the private police force for wealthy global people. Everyone could see that coming, and the investment and corporate money flowing into Times Square was both contingent on, and part of the process of electing Rudy Guiliani.

Given the large amounts of money and investment flowing into NYC as the major urban area for the global rich on the Eastern Seaboard, investing in the Meatpacking district, Alphabet City, Tribeca, Battery Park, etc was not a huge gamble. That was all near/around where money was pouring in, and isolated in Manhattan from lots and lots of Black people. No one say, believed that it was wise to pour money into the South Bronx, just a convenient subway ride away from Central Manhattan. Or lovely Harlem.

San Francisco, Westside LA, and other urban areas gentrified all had lots of rich people coming in and pricing out Blacks and the resulting violence. That's not in the cards for Detroit.

If you wannabee hipsters get prices out of Detroit, consider Gary, Indiana.

In fact, Gary might be a better choice because it is smaller and perhaps more manageable.

Those pics of empty lots in Detroit are exactly the same as in Gary.

The big problem with Gary is that the steel mills are still in business, clogging up the lakeshore and spewing stinkiness into the atmosphere.

I've neither visited Detroit nor researched the conditions there. But I've picked up bits and pieces from simply being literate. Detroit was a one trick pony. And the only trick it knew was cars. Does anyone really expect the Big Three to expand production in Detroit? Nope. They're too busy outsourcing.

Even if they expanded domestic production why do it there? By this time most of the skilled workers have already left. It has one of the worst crime rates in the country. It has one of the worst school systems in the country. And the government is dominated by blacks. Who in their right mind would want to locate a business in an area where they would be forced to hire illiterate criminals and pander to race hustlers? Maybe Tyson Foods might want to locate some low wage meatpacking plants there or something. Then they can fire the blacks and replace them with Mexicans. But that's about the only revitalization Detroit is going to get.

My recommendation is to avoid Detroit. If there are any decent people unfortunate enough to live there then the best they can do is leave. I wouldn't even worry about taking a loss on the house. At this point, its already lost. Waiting won't change that. I grew up in an environment similar to Detroit. If anyone else is living in a similar environment then leave. You don't want to do that to your children. As for the thugs, it's worth paying them welfare just to stay there and leave the rest of us the hell alone. I only wish the liberals could be forced to live there and enjoy the rich diversity that they're always celebrating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTQFtNLvcl8&playnext=1&list=PLPKAYDt0H2UfQXWVh23DqoR6ZGuGDIgJo&feature=results_video

Detroit is over. A bunch of hipsters moving there will not make a difference because there's not enough rich people to buy ...

artisan ice cream
artisan coffee
organic, local honey
organic, local vegetables
organic, local beer

And the hipsters who are making this won't be earning enough money from sales to support the other hipsters selling their crafted merch because the bulk of the buyers (that exist in places like NYC or CA) will not move to Detroit.

Detroit is over. Better places to move for the aspiring hipster who wants to do his own crafty merch ...

Salt Lake City, Utah
a small college town in Texas
a small college town in New Mexico
a small college town in Kansas

Detroit is over.

Colonialism can never work if the settlers are not allowed to shoot the dangerous native savages.

I'm with 'ode'. You can't compare Detroit to NYC, Toronot or Sydney - those cities were established metropolises that went thru bad patches. Detroit? Forget it. It STILL has 800 thou low IQ blacks - they are not going anywhere.

The only thing that will save Detroit is a society wide crisis the likes of which the US has never seen. An epidemic, maybe.

"NYC was clearly going places: lots of global rich people moving in, with the NYPD made into basically, the private police force for wealthy global people".

Why do Whites insist that only the wealthy can afford to have a NAM free neighborhood because the police force serves ONLY them?

If more Beta White guys would step up to the game and become Alpha, things would be different. The Liberals would just shut their mouths and let them eat their cake.

Quote: "As cheap as it is to buy real estate in Detroit, it still doesn't make sense. Why not buy real estate that's almost-as-cheap in a small town in the middle-of-nowhere that isn't invested with the lumpenproletariat?"

I guess people believe that once the black population drops below a certain level, businesses will start coming back to Detroit which will result in rising land values.

I've always been under the impression that white colonization of Southern Africa was different - the Boers/Voortrekkers moved into extremely lightly populated areas (especially the empty Cape area) and then blacks followed for technology, liquor and jobs.

Either way, the same thing will happen again in Detroit if any significant number of whites move there.

I change my mind. Detroit is a basketcase. the permaculture, diy, urban homesteaeding, etc element will increase over the years, but their numbers will remain tiny in foreseeable future. Showcasing the few pioneers makes for good stories that get people to read articles. I was going to type buy newspapers or magazines, but who buys either anymore? There are just some many more better alternative places in the US to live off the land.

@outlaw josey wales: "Is Detroit a real estate investment opportunity? The Patent Office just opened up a branch there."

I'm curious what kind of PTO work will be done at the new Detroit office. I suspect it's mostly clerical and forms processing. The office will be a jobs program for the local black females.

I read a Derby-like rule somewhere -- avoid living in a city that is dominated by black politicians. This rules out Detroit as a place to live or invest.

Has everyone missed that the dude pictured runs a 'soup kitchen'? He's just another naive do-gooder. Blacks will use him as another white resource, and he won't be allowed to make or keep any profit. As soon as he starts acting like a real business, they'll sue him for "discrimination." Holder's people might havce to pay him a visit. Have you folks fully clued yourselves into the nature of the game blacks are now running?

"Bumblefuck, Nowhere does not have the same potential as Detroit."

Let me know how your uh, investment works out in Motown. PS, hire your own cops.

Slightly OT, an amazing real-time experiment is underway in central Marin County as a McDonald's has gone from Mexican to Black management. Result: what had been an efficient operation with quick service now takes forever to get two cars through the drive-through. A peak through the window shows that a staff which had been 70% Mex-30% white is now 2/3 black, with all supervisors (the "blue shirts") being black. Now takes 15 min. to get a single cup of coffee. Just incredible incompetence. Will be fascinating to see how long people will put up with it. Anyone seen this? Is this a Sharpton-type mau-mau that's being replicated across the country?

"San Francisco, Westside LA, and other urban areas gentrified all had lots of rich people coming in and pricing out Blacks and the resulting violence. That's not in the cards for Detroit."

Gentrification has been studied to death, and I've read a lot those studies, both for work and personal interest. Wealthy people moving in is the LAST stage of the gentrification process. The START is exactly what you see in Detroit - young artist types seeking cheap space. The area starts getting a little groovy, trendy types (and gay people) start coming around, the rents start going up, and THEN the real money comes. Then the area starts getting boring. Rich, but boring.

Always, in the beginning, people wonder why on earth those weird kids want to live in such a shit neighbourhood.

Kris,

"Detroit is over. A bunch of hipsters moving there will not make a difference because there's not enough rich people to buy ...

artisan ice cream
artisan coffee
organic, local honey
organic, local vegetables
organic, local beer

And the hipsters who are making this won't be earning enough money from sales to support the other hipsters selling their crafted merch because the bulk of the buyers (that exist in places like NYC or CA) will not move to Detroit."

Have you considered the possibility of making stuff in Detroit and... wait for it... selling it to people who live elsewhere? That's what made Detroit a boom town in the first place. That's what might make it a boom town again.

And the stuff you make doesn't need to be organic foods and beverages. It can be high-end bicycles, skate boards, baby carriages, and even maybe custom cars -- stuff that can be profitably sold to hipsters and wealthy SWPLs around the country, if the quality and cachet is high enough.

"I read a Derby-like rule somewhere -- avoid living in a city that is dominated by black politicians."

Interim solution: find a local version of Corey Booker and back him, while using the legal system to get rid of corrupt current pols. Longer term solution will come with demographic change. There are plenty of middle class white kids in suburban Detroit who will want to move to the city after a tipping point has been reached.

"It can be high-end bicycles, skate boards, baby carriages, and even maybe custom cars -- stuff that can be profitably sold to hipsters and wealthy SWPLs around the country, if the quality and cachet is high enough."

Thanks to new 3-D printing facilities which take up less area than traditional manufacturing sites it will be increasingly possible to develop niche manufacturing in smaller neighborhoods without overwhelming the local scene.


Always, in the beginning, people wonder why on earth those weird kids want to live in such a shit neighbourhood.

Posted by: Candleflame3 | November 24, 2012 at 06:39 PM

yeah, but Detroit isn't just a crappy neighborhood. If a city is otherwise pretty okay and hipsters start moving into a crappy neighborhood then there are police and policies etc that support the new gentrifiers. Detroit is rotten to the core in terms of problems and the people who make the problems. Think of it as a large family. If you marry into a large family and one of the siblings is a mess, it is still workable. You don't have to deal with him much and the other family members think he is fried, too. However, when the parents and the rest all suck and your spouse is the only good one in the lot, then no, you have to spend the holidays with you family.

I grew up near Detroit and have lived in Detroit for a few years. I have known a lot of white people who didn't grow up in Detroit but were very proud to tell you they lived in the city and its not that bad. They all moved once they had children.

The metro area has a number of alternatives for local hipsters. Plenty of places where you can buy organic food, go to an art fair, or do whatever they do in Portlandia. Detroit only has one advantage over these other cities "diversity." So for a Michigan hipster who can't move New York or San Francisco and has to stay in their home state the choice is, live where you want to live or where you want to tell people you live.

Dave in Hackensack please give it up, Detroit's not going to gentrify successfully. Just this week they have Kwame Kilpatrick back in court:

http://www.freep.com/article/20121118/NEWS0102/311180238/Holiday-break-interrupts-testimony-on-shakedowns-in-Kwame-Kilpatrick-corruption-trial

The blacks in Detroit would GLADLY vote him back into office if they could, just like Marion Barry.

And don't forget this blog on the lovely events going on in the Motor City:

http://detroitisstillcrap.blogspot.com/

Candleflame3,

Thanks for your explanation of how gentrification gets started. I was puzzled about this, and wondered who would be brave enough, or foolish enough, to be the first to move into a bad area.

Not Too Late has explained why this process is unlikely to happen in a place as bad as Detroit. It has happened in parts of my own city, i.e. Sydney, Australia, but none of those areas were anything like Detroit.

"The blacks in Detroit would GLADLY vote him back into office if they could, just like Marion Barry."

And yet, Marion Barry's DC has been gentrifying, despite that: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/18/us/18dc.html?pagewanted=1&_r=4&ref=sabrinatavernise

"yeah, but Detroit isn't just a crappy neighborhood"

The same thing could have been said about NYC's Lower East Side, as recently as the early 90s. It was a dangerous shithole of a nightmare neighbourhood.

True, once it becomes apparent that a neighbourhood is gentrifying, it gets better support. Because higher property values mean higher taxes - don't want to slay that golden goose! And because by that stage many of the previous residents have been priced out and have moved on.

But at the young-starving-artist stage, it's still just a shit neighbourhood. That's why the artist types can afford to live there - no one else wants to.

"yeah, but Detroit isn't just a crappy neighborhood"

The same thing could have been said about NYC's Lower East Side, as recently as the early 90s. It was a dangerous shithole of a nightmare neighbourhood.


Posted by: Candleflame3 | November 25, 2012 at 09:43 PM


No, it is not the same. NYC didn't have elected officials like Detroit has. There were tons of smart people left in NYC. The whole city was not crap. So, moving into crappy neighborhoods can work when you still have functioning government. Detroit doesn't have that.

"And yet, Marion Barry's DC has been gentrifying, despite that: " -- daveinhackensack

If DC ever outsources government the way Detroit outsourced cars then it's screwed because there won't be any reason to stay there. As it is, there's plenty of money to be made in Washington.

[HS: The federal government is huge and keeps growing (Any shrinkage had to do with replacing "employees" with "contractors" who still work in the same buildings.) The black people in the ghettos in DC aren't smart enough to do these government jobs.]

The federal government was huge ten years ago too, and yet in the last 10 years, as the article notes, the white population in DC increased by 31% and the black population decreased by 11%. The difference isn't so much the number of federal workers and contractors over that time period as it is the number of those who have decided to live in DC.

I took a quick look at the blog of Patrick Crouch, the Detroit urban farmer you refer to Half Sigma.

The whole racial angle of what ios happening in Detroit is totally, 100% lost on SWPLs like Crouch.

For example: in his blog, he takes a trip to Burlington Vermont. This is what he has to say about the Great Replacement afoot in all white countries :


"""""
it would be pretty easy to think that burlington is all white city without much diversity if you just stay in the downtown area. the bus is another story. i was surprised by how many languages were spoken. burlington is a refugee resettlement community, and while this has made for some difficult transitions for it’s traditionally white community, certainly makes for a more interesting community.

venturing out of downtown and into the old north end neighborhood the community seemed to get more diverse with ethnic markets and restaurants around and more folks out sitting on porches talking. there was also some pretty funky colored homes. """""

It's no wonder that in Vermont, the sate with the fewest negroes, white people voted more than any other state for the negro; while in Mississippi, the state with the most negroes, white people voted more than any other state against Obama.

It is white people like Crouch who are enabling the population replacement fanatics. I spit on him.

Sincerely,

- Arturo

crimesofthetimes,com

"No, it is not the same. NYC didn't have elected officials like Detroit has. There were tons of smart people left in NYC. "

At the time that the LSE was a slum, pre-gentrification, NYC was in terrible shape, nearly bankrupt and rife with corruption.

"the financial crisis, high crime rates, and damage from the blackouts led to a widespread belief that New York City was in irreversible decline. By the end of the 1970s, nearly a million people had left since the '50s, a population loss that would not be recouped for another twenty years" - wikipedia

Remember "Escape from New York", in 1981? Back then, that was a plausible future scenario for NYC. Yet, gentrification still happened.

What is sad here is the fact that MOST of these comments in reference to Patrick Crouch are highly uninformed and way off base. I live in Detroit and work with Patrick on food issues. His work is significant, and it is more based in equity and justice than you folks know.

Patrick and I fall on different sides of some ideas, but I respect him for his intelligence and COMMITMENT to racial justice. He is a staunch opponent to gentrification, as opposed to someone like myself, a Detroit black man, who doesn't see some gentrification as an issue.

Folks need to know the whole story before shooting off your mouths. If you look at life through evil eyes you will always see the devil. We have some good people working hard to fix what a few have made bad, and Patrick is one of them.

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