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December 17, 2012

Comments

The vise is tightening on preppers, goldbugs, libertarians and gun nuts.

I wouldn't be surprised to see extreme anti-government or "doomer" ideologies classified as a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder in the coming years, and assault firearms banned before the end of Obama's mandate.

If indeed you coined or significantly facilitated the "value creation" / "value transference" dichotomy, it's probably one of your better contributions, HS.

Here's a good piece about the pointlessness of doomsday prepping, with a focus on having a remote "bug-out" location:
http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2012/10/emergency-preparation-part-13-bug-out.html

Maybe the SWPL elites will eventually declare any deviation from liberal orthodoxy a grave mental illness requiring an extended stay in a re-education/mental health facility...just like in the old USSR.

Conservatives are walking into a trap (as always) and Half Sigma is leading them right into it.

Liberals are making noise about gun control, even though they know realistically it's a non starter. In response, Conservatives are demanding we lock up or otherwise confine the crazies and only take -their- guns away. To this, Liberals will say, ok fine, you win. And then with a wink they will simply deem the conservatives as crazy and lock them up and take their guns away.

There is a lot of "conservatism as a mental health issue" stuff already coming via Obamacare. This is really dangerous stuff, because once you're identified as crazy, -everything you do- becomes evidence that you are crazy.

What Conservatives should be doing is to go roissy on this issue and immediately turn the conversation to Obama's drone murders of children, liberal hollywood's ultra-violence (especially hit on D;Jango Unchained), and DIVORCE.

Nancy was batshit. And would everyone stop calling her "prole"? That has a specific meaning, which the commenters here regularly abuse, under HS's tutelage.

She was a farm girl apparently. Peter was from a working class New England Italian background. He is more prole than she. I think both were very bright, not just Peter, and that when she was young, she was extremely hot.

Hot and nuts. I think she had a muted form of autism which came out in full force in Adam.

I don't know what to do about such people - does anyone?

"I recently skimmed the book Antifragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, and I would say that preppers are practicing what Taleb would call “anti-fragility.” "

Do you like what you've read so far?

I've been thinking of buying the Kindle edition for my iPad because Taleb seems like he has HBD sympathies and he's creative.

The Idaho Statesmen is reporting the establishment of a Chinese colony in Idaho: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/12/31/1472023/chinese-company-eyes-boise.html

The colony will have residences and industry. Presumably it will incorporate into a city at some point and thus have a "legitimate" municipal government controlled by the Chinese.

The Scramble for Africa has begun, but this time we're the savage continent. The Chinese see that we're undergoing a demographic disaster (the collapse of the American ethnicity and the influx of random immigrants) and they want to grab their slice of the pie.

These Chinese colonies will be the core cities of the future America. People in the towns and farms will trade with the Chinese cities and the old American cities will dwindle in population as the productive members leave and the majority of blacks suffer from various forms of attrition. We're going to end up with a racial spectrum that goes from swarthy mestizo (mexican base with chinese, redneck, and black mixture) at the bottom to k-pop (Asian with a dose of white) at the top.

Is stockpiling guns the correct response? No, but at least it shows an awareness that something is happening. People who are making all of the "right" choices aren't going to have many, if any, descendants 200 years from now.

There's nothing crazy per se about being prepared for disaster. Mormons, who are probably psychologically healthier on average than any other group, are supposed to stockpile food. The reality is that our first world lifestyle is pretty fragile, and if there were an economic collapse, there would be chaos and violence in highly populated areas, because this sort of well-fed population density is unsustainable without the well-oiled machinery of a first world economy.

But an economic collapse doesn't mean a permanent Mad Max scenario. It means a period of chaos before the next economic order is established.

"I might add here that several readers criticize Half Sigma for pushing the phrase “value transference,” but Taleb makes up dozens of new words and phrases in every book he writes and he seems to get away with it, although in my opinion it makes his books very hard to read."

Erik Falkenstein calls him on it (and on much else -- he is not a fan): http://falkenblog.blogspot.com/2012/11/taleb-mishandles-fragility.html

HS, could you explain what, exactly, is the difference between your "value transference" and the concept of rent-seeking in economic theory? It seems that you have been pre-empted by Anne Krueger if you were simply trying to describe economic pursuits that aim only to change the distribution but not the stock of an economy's wealth. Is there some nuance of your theory that I am missing out on?

Speaking of Roissy's response to the Sandy Hook massacre, he tweeted a link to this today: http://mypostingcareer.com/forums/topic/6570-mass-murder-in-connecticut/page__st__40

Commenters there blame cite David Frum's anti-gun tweets and blame Jews in general for the gun-grabbing agitation. Would be interesting to hear TUJ's opinion on this. This looks like another example of "HBD" and Jews not mixing well.

"Prepers" are the militias of our generation. This massacre will do for preppers what the OKC bombing did for militias.

"...even taking them to local ranges"

Holy moly! That's going a little too far, don't you think, even if she was teaching them to shoot.

Nic, Half Sigma's concept includes voluntary transactions, whereas "rent-seeking" usually only refers to situations where the government is corrupting the market. So rent-seeking is thus a subset of value-transference. The same rent-seeking results can occur even without government interference. Thus a new word is needed, because "rent-seeking" is too strongly associated with government action.


[HS: There's also the fact that I don't consider renting a place to live, the standard dictionary meaning of "rent," to be a value transference activity so long as the prices are fair. People have to live somewhere, and I don't expect the person who owns the house to let someone live there for free.

So think of a Venn diagram in which there is some overlap of the two terms.]

"Conservatives are walking into a trap (as always) and Half Sigma is leading them right into it.

Liberals are making noise about gun control, even though they know realistically it's a non starter. In response, Conservatives are demanding we lock up or otherwise confine the crazies and only take -their- guns away. To this, Liberals will say, ok fine, you win. And then with a wink they will simply deem the conservatives as crazy and lock them up and take their guns away."

The Norwegian mass murderer made a similar argument in one of his court statements, if memory serves, noting that after WWII the leftist government classified some Nazi collaborators as insane and had them committed.

""Prepers" are the militias of our generation. This massacre will do for preppers what the OKC bombing did for militias."

Interesting comment, but I wonder about which way the arrow of causality points here. The OKC bombing happened on the anniversary of the federal assault on the Waco compound -- an assault that led to the deaths of more kids than were killed last Friday in CT. And that whole fiasco started with a federal investigation into gun control violations.

Also, the militia concerns about federal power may have seemed a little crazy in the '90s but today, with the TSA, PATRIOT Act wiretaps, drone assassinations? Maybe not so much. But as long as a Democrat is in the White House, the press doesn't care how much the security state expands.

"Commenters there blame cite David Frum's anti-gun tweets and blame Jews in general for the gun-grabbing agitation. Would be interesting to hear TUJ's opinion on this. This looks like another example of "HBD" and Jews not mixing well."

First of all those are White Nationalists, not HBDers. HBDers per GNXP reader surveys tend to be younger libertarians or ex-libertarians.

Secondly, so what?

As usual they're blaming Jews for supporting the exact same policies as elite gentiles. If the elite gentiles won't support conservatism then there's no moral obligation for elite Jews to be more conservative than the gentiles.

Why are liberal Jews supposed to be more pro-gun than Harry Reid?

The European press in Britain, France, Germany, and elsewhere is as anti-gun owner and liberal as any Jewish liberal.

Der Spiegel's take on gun "clingers":

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/commentary-newton-and-the-fatal-national-identity-of-america-a-873350.html

Once again, the United States is debating its gun laws, even if the discussion is likely to be short and inconclusive. But the real thing that must change (though it hardly will), is the misunderstanding that America's formative myth of "freedom" allows for weapons to be as widespread as smart phones.

"I came to realize that, in essence, this is the way we in America want things to be," writes Gregory Gibson, whose son Galen was killed in a 1992 shooting rampage, in a sad essay for The New York Times.

Why? Because guns have long been a part of America's national identity. This may have been appropriate in times when colonial powers, the frontier and the myth of the evil central state still threatened the people. Since then, however, it has become fatally counterproductive, regardless of the Second Amendment's guarantee of "the right to keep and bear arms."

Today the gun seems like a relic from an era that will soon have slipped away. But the faster it disintegrates, the more desperately people reach for the relic. That's likely what then Presidential candidate Barack Obama meant in 2008 when he described the existential fears of mainly white working class voters, who he said "cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

snip

This old fairy tale of self-defense is popular in the pro-gun lobby. It has also been statistically disproved. Civilians who shoot back usually miss. And those self-proclaimed defenders of law and order often hit the wrong target, such as Trayvon Martin in Florida. Or 17-year-old Jordan Davis, who was shot at a gas station recently because the music in his car was too loud.

The madness continues. The statistics, quoted often again since Friday, are well-known. America leads the world in shooting deaths, with some 30,000 people killed by guns each year. Yet each time there's a major shooting, weapons sales increase. In the days after the movie theater bloodbath in Denver this July, the number of background checks for guns in Colorado rose by 41 percent. After the 2011 shooting in Tucson, Arizona that left six dead and Congresswoman Gabby Giffords critically injured, weapons sales spiked by 60 percent.

The shooter in Aurora, CO was a college student of above-average ability who saw three therapists before the shooting.
The VT shooter was a Korean student who had clear psychological problems.
The shooter in AZ (Gabbie Giffords) was a psychological nut.

Reports are saying that this shooter was mentally ill as well. Why can't we focus on the pattern?

"First of all those are White Nationalists, not HBDers."

Look at where the commenters say they found the site. A number say the Steve-o-Sphere.

Also, why is it that elite Jews tend to be anti-gun? Wouldn't the history of the Holocaust prompt them to want to have access to arms?

And what about Israel, where everyone is armed?

"This old fairy tale of self-defense is popular in the pro-gun lobby. It has also been statistically disproved."

I don't think it's a fairy tale. You have to also consider the instances where someone defends themselves with a gun by simply brandishing it, and not shooting. In those instances, it's unlikely they'll report it to the police.

Awesome roissy tweeted that

"Why can't we focus on the pattern?" - Half Canadian

If you want a pattern examine the fact that most were sexless. Some were social outcasts others weren't but nearly all were sexless or sexually deprived. Lack of female intimacy isn't natural. Most can cope but they simply substitute porn and violent video games for rape and mass murder. Why is it so unfathomable to accept that places with polygamy are violent? And yes western countries have informal polygamy nowadays.

Also remember that married men with families rarely commit crimes let alone mass shootings. When we say beta male rage we don't just mean a new one night stand every weekend but a mate/offspring that anchor a guy in conformity and normalcy.

In Taleb's vocabulary, preppers are being "robust," not "anti-fragile." Preppers might be harmed less by disaster than others, but their own standard of living would not be improved either (except relative to non-preppers).

Also, Taleb does get plenty of negative criticism for making up words. I'm personally annoyed when he makes up words for things that already have perfectly good (sometimes better) names, like his re-branding of "power distributions" and "Mandelbrot distributions."

To half Canadian:
Approximately 25% of american women use antidepressants. And those are just the diagnosed ones. Undiagnosed depressed women may be another 10%, say.
Men are far less likely to seek mental health advice, so we have no idea what the prevalence is in men.

Psychiatric disorders are NOT like other diseases - the boundary line between normal and abnormal psyches is very vague and changes based on the majority opinion.
Medications are effective only in depression and in psychoses- ie bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Everything else is handled by vague voodoo Dr Phil nonsense. That's the reality of the field.

A commenter wrote: "America leads the world in shooting deaths, with some 30,000 people killed by guns each year."

Actually, per the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting program, in 2010 there were 12,996 murder victims, two-thirds of which were murdered by firearm.

Roughly 500 Americans are killed each year from the accidental discharge of a firearm, as in this recent instance:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/12/08/3714442/officials-boy-7-shot-to-death.html

"Reports are saying that this shooter was mentally ill as well. Why can't we focus on the pattern? "

Because who decides which mental illnesses should bar someone from owning a gun? Sure, it will start with just the schizoids, but I doubt that will be the end of it. I'm afraid that eventually the powers-that-be would extend to anyone who has received psychiatric treatment or taken psychiatric medicine. Should people temporarily suffering from anxiety and depression be kept away from guns? Does a prescription for xanax to get through a stressful period mean you're too unstable for firearms? If it does, will sufferers of mild mental illness eventually disqualify you from holding certain public-oriented jobs such as a teacher or doctor? See where it starts? I know it's a slippery slope argument and that is a logical fallacy, but I can easily envision that sequence of events occurring over the next three or four decades.

From the Der Spiegel article that TUJ linked to:

"And those self-proclaimed defenders of law and order often hit the wrong target, such as Trayvon Martin in Florida."

Since when is shooting the young thug who is beating your brain into the pavement "hit[ting] the wrong target"?

@ DaveinHackensack -

Sailer may be an HBDer, but a hefty share of his commenters are full-fledged WN Jew-haters. And who knows where Sailer's real sympathies lie. He could easily be a closet WN who just doesn't want to suffer the consequences of openly advocating that position.

Well I think the survivalist skills are pretty good to have. If the USA ever becomes Greece, people will be able to survive on their own without waiting for the UN , Red Cross or insert random charities to come in.

@ Half Signa- what happened to your kitten? How big is she now? Do the two of you have a routine? Would you please post a pic.

Personally, I like your term value transference. Though it's really the same concept as rent seeking it conveys the truth much better than rent seeking. It also contracts well with value creation which the term rent seeking can't do.

"Since when is shooting the young thug who is beating your brain into the pavement "hit[ting] the wrong target"?"

I was thinking the same thing.

"Look at where the commenters say they found the site. A number say the Steve-o-Sphere."

iSteve's comments are not only filled with anti-semites but the website they link to is dominated by crude Hitler advocates, not merely Buchananite paleoconservatives.

"Also, why is it that elite Jews tend to be anti-gun? Wouldn't the history of the Holocaust prompt them to want to have access to arms?"

I agree that given the Holocaust and earlier forms of persecution Jews should be strong supporters of gun ownership. That they aren't indicates they have, as usual, ignored their ethnic interests in favor of social status climbing in their elite circles.

"And what about Israel, where everyone is armed?"

Did it ever occur to you that support for gun ownership in Israel is higher than it is for American Jews because Israel is surrounded by genocidal Muslims?

"This old fairy tale of self-defense is popular in the pro-gun lobby. It has also been statistically disproved."

I agree the Der Spiegel article is complete nonsense. Of course gun ownership has saved lives. And Germany's strict gun laws didn't prevent school shootings in Germany in 2002.

@ Dave

"Also, why is it that elite Jews tend to be anti-gun? Wouldn't the history of the Holocaust prompt them to want to have access to arms?

And what about Israel, where everyone is armed?"

To elite Jewish Americans who are also liberals, Israel is the other. Different country/culture with a different standard beyond their reach. It would be the same had you ask Andrew Cuomo what he thought of the gun laws in Italy.

"And what about Israel, where everyone is armed?"

Huh? Israel has gun control. The state determines whether or not you may own a firearm.

"Actually, per the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting program, in 2010 there were 12,996 murder victims, two-thirds of which were murdered by firearm."

The additional gun deaths are suicides.

"She is reported to have been struggling to hold herself together and had been stockpiling food, water and guns..." -- HS

I'll bet the people in New Orleans and New York wish they had some extra food and water on hand when Katrina and Sandy struck. The irony is that homeland security considers "preppers" extreme while FEMA has published guidelines on how to do it. http://www.ready.gov/build-a-kit

Due to lean inventory practices, there's less than 3 days worth of food on the shelves. Its gone as soon as people get word of a disaster. I'm not a "prepper" or "survivalist" by any means. But it doesn't cost much for some carboys, canned goods and a few pounds of beans, rice, oats, etc. It lasts forever and you eat it anyway. Just keep enough on hand for a week without utilities.

**

"What Conservatives should be doing is to go roissy on this issue and immediately turn the conversation to Obama's drone murders of children, liberal hollywood's ultra-violence (especially hit on D;Jango Unchained), and DIVORCE." anonymous

Yep. But /I'm not sure that's even necessary. If you'll notice, the libs are making an issue but most of the politicians aren't. Gun control is a loser for Dems the way SSM and abortion are losers for GOP.

**

"I don't know what to do about such people - does anyone?" JayNE

There's no solution for crazy.

**

"As usual they're blaming Jews for supporting the exact same policies as elite gentiles. If the elite gentiles won't support conservatism then there's no moral obligation for elite Jews to be more conservative than the gentiles." TUJ

I haven't seen much love for elite gentiles, either. If elite Jews advocate the same unpopular positions its only natural for people to notice. If Christians were pushing unpopular positions in Israel I'm sure Jews would notice even if many Jews also held the same positions.


"Why are liberal Jews supposed to be more pro-gun than Harry Reid?"

Because Harry Reid is an ass.

"The European press in Britain, France, Germany, and elsewhere is as anti-gun owner and liberal as any Jewish liberal."

Yeah. We love the Euro elites. ಠ_ಠ

**

"Why is it so unfathomable to accept that places with polygamy are violent? And yes western countries have informal polygamy nowadays. " conquistador

True. But I'm not sure you can assume the guys in Arizona and Connecticut were normal enough to feel deprived.

"Also remember that married men with families rarely commit crimes let alone mass shootings."

That could be more correlation than causation. Guys who either can't or won't marry and have children are more likely to be nuts to start with. But marriage does lower testosterone and aggression. Until a really bad break-up. That's when the guy goes nuts and shoots the whole family.

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