« 8-year-old kid wants in-app purchases for Hanukkah | Main | Why couldn’t Adam Lanza cook? »

December 19, 2012

Comments

And so the answer is... fight for decades against gentile white working class interests and tirelessly advocate for throwing open the borders to the hordes? Bit of overkill, doncha think?

[HS: This is only a post about how Jews FEEL and not about whether or not Jews or Gentiles should do anything differently.]

I get that this happens sometimes but this is a pretty minor problem so I don't have much sympathy. Pretty much everyone feels unhappy and left out at some point so they have to decide where to compromise between their identity and their social participation.

[HS: Other people's problems always seem minor to your own.]

At the time the Mosaic laws were made, Jews had a very distinctive nation and moral system compared to the great empires that surrounded them, who were practicing nude gymnasium, gladiator battles, and fertility temples.

Today, most Jews live among neighbors practicing a minor variation of their faith, so believing in Jewish values does not make one a distinctive member of society. The grandfather in the latter story, still believed in the Kosher laws to keep Jews separate and distinct, while the subject family was more inclined to accept assimilation. That's nowhere near the same issue as the First Amendment problems indicated in the first story.

As a Jewish kid growing up in a large midwestern city in the 1960's and 1970's I never felt particularly alienated during Christmas. My school was about 1/3 Jewish and what I remember is arguments with my gentile friends over whether Hanukkah which lasted 8 days meaning 8 presents was better than Christmas (their counter-claim was that they got more than 8 presents). I used to like to go to my friends house and look at their Christmas trees. My family used to drive around the city looking at Christmas decorations on Christmas eve then go for Chinese food and a movie (where we would invariable run into our relatives). Singing Christmas songs was a little off-putting sometimes although only a few were religious. Hardly very traumatic.

This isn't all Jews. I have Jewish friends who dig Christmas because friendly Gentiles buy them gifts without expecting anything in return. I used to get my best Jewish friend a small gift, and he'd joke that he wasn't going to give me 8 Chanukah gifts.

You've posted on this before. Is this going to be an annual thing in an attempt to make your readers feel bad for the Jews who have a pretty great position and completely disproportionate influence in US society?

[HS: Scrooge was rich, but unhappy because he lacked the Christmas spirit. Christians who believe in their own BS would feel sorry for Jews, yes.]

I'm sorry you felt left out at Christmas, but I would expect to feel left out at Passover or Yom Kippor if I lived in Israel, too. Jews have put the kibbosh on most of the meaninful observation of the holiday by denying access to the institutions that would normally balance the commercial interests. Ironically, by inadvertently tiping the balance toward the secular parts of Christmas (because those parts don't violate the Establishment clause) the holiday has gotten much bigger and more in everyone's face.

People often contend that a lot of what you post is just "trolling" and not everything is totally genuine. I never really believed them, but with posts like this I think it's extremely obvious they're right. I mean, "emotionally wrenching"?! Way to make it unsubtle.

This is stupid. I'm neither christian nor jewish but I feel no "pain" or "excluded feelings" when we have a secret Santa gift exchange at work, in a group comprising, apart from myself, a jew, two chinese, a hindu, and two white christians. Get over yourselves. You are 1% of the population here, you don't get to decide what the majority celebrates. I've lived in Islamic countries where even non-muslims were forbidden from eating outside of home during Ramazan. Now that's extreme.

[HS: This is not a post about how Jews SHOULD feel, it's an observation of how they DO feel.]

Winter Solstice is for everybody, and Mr. Hanky loves you, even if you're a Jew.

Wouldn't modern American "Christians who believe in their own BS" be upset with Jews because they (like the pagan Romans) had a hand in his death? That is a pretty amazing sign of forgiveness and moving on. Your blinders to anything involving American Jews are pretty funny to read in action. You can at least admit that, right, or is that not allowed? It's been comical to read you constantly needle in 2012 Asian Tiger moms when any gentile who has been to an Ivy can tell you that there is very little difference between an Asian Tiger mom and a Jewish American mom.

[HS: I don't see how it's relevant that a certain subset of Jews, who didn't represent all Jews living in the first century and have all been dead for nearly 2000 years, have anything to do with how Jews feel in 2012.

Furthermore, if Jesus hadn't been crucified then he wouldn't have been able to die for your sins and there wouldn't have been a resurrection and basically the whole religion wouldn't exist, so Jews who crucified Christ should be thanked for making the whole religion possible.

(Although most likely, it's just a made-up story that never happened.)]

My uncle is Jewish from a very loving family. One day we were talking about stuff we did as kids, and he remarked that his parents always made a big deal of birthdays and always had a big Thanksgiving with all the family but for Christmas they didn't get bupkis. I was stunned and said I couldn't believe that! Then I noticed that twinkle in his eye and the little smile and then well, duh, I remembered that of course his family wasn't doing Christmas. He said he felt left out but had a lot of Jewish friends and still enjoyed the time off playing etc. So, it wasn't wretched.

This post is obviously intended as a joke, so let me follow up that as a Jew in a predominantly Christian elementary school, I enjoyed singing Christmas carols, and to this day know and enjoy many of the better ones well enough to sound them out at a piano without sheet music. And now my kids go a predominantly Christian private school and their Christmas pageant will be filled with Kwanza and other crappy songs, and the whole thing is unbearable. My wife tells me that when she went to the same school decades ago they put on decent Christmas pageant, but 15 years or so a billionaire's Jewess wife was on the board and she had them put in the Hannukah suff and excise the Christmas carols that mention Jesus, etc. My own view is that if Jews find Christians and Christianity so problematic they should move to Israel.

[HS: Jews aren't moving to Israel for the same reason that lbiertarians aren't moving to New Hampshire and that people who post on Stormfront aren't all moving to Idaho. Plus the fact that Israel will probably be taken over by Muslims in a few decades, so it's a dumb place to move to.]

Not all Jews feel this way, but a lot of them do. Enough that they ought to be called out on it so that they can come to terms with why they feel this way and how it might make them act. If some Jews feel alienated in America in 2012 the problem isn't with Americans. In some ways America is friendlier to the Jews than Israel itself (regarding theological differences).

I read Harlan Ellison's collected short stories a year ago, as I had read some of his more popular stories and wanted more. Ellison was/is a vehemently non-practicing ethnic Jew, but alienation from and hatred of white Gentiles suffused many of his stories (this was not obvious except that the stories were aggregated). Of course, this is better explained by Ellison being an insufferable dickhead. This tends to accord with my personal experiences. Agreeable Jews get along just fine, disagreeable ones can conveniently blame the goyim for their ill-temper. It's certainly more palatable than admitting that you're just a crank, and who's going to tell you otherwise.

Cry me a river.

This is all by choice. Many atheists and non Christians celebrate all the secular aspects of Christmas. I can respect that many Jews may not out of religious solidarity - guess that is a show of strength as long as you don't cry and whine about it. My family is Hindu and I grew up feeling a little alienated at Christmas too because at a young age my parents decided Santa Claus did not exist and gifts should not be given at Christmas. Now that I have young kids of my own - we celebrate Christmas every year.

[HS: Atheists aren't int he same position as Jews, especially secular Jews who define their Judaism as NOT being Christian. Ultra-Orthodox Jews living in Brooklyn don't have this alienation problem.]

Boo hoo.

Yeah, this is why Christmas has to be devalued, undermined, and repositioned. Lumping in with an madeup nonsense like Kwanza in a milktoasty "Happy Holidays" is offensive.

Christmas is a very important liturgical day for Christians. Kwanza is not equivalent. Hell, Chanukah isnt equivalent.

If you are going to hold yourself apart from society then yeah there are going to be times when you feel like you are missing out. Is that the fault of society for having an event? Or the muscular grandfather?

In January we get a bunch of newsstories about the dyspeptic killjoys who arent into football and want to let everyone know *they* wont be getting into the Superbowl hype. Does that mean we should stop having the Superbowl 'cus they feel let out? Should we call if the OkBowl so it isnt offensive?

[HS: This is a post about how Jews FEEL and not about whether Christmas should be "devalued." Perhaps if there was more openness and understanding, then religious Christians would be better able to value Christmas and Jews wouldn't feel threatened by it.]

The solution is for Jews to start celebrating Christmas, then all of the sad feelings will go away. Put up a tree, get presents from Santa, etc... just skip the nativity scene. I'm an atheist and I absolutely love Christmas. A significant portion of my small apartment is filled with a large Christmas tree. Christmas isn't a Christian holiday so much as it is a Western civilization holiday.

[HS: Jews don't have a social network that enables them to celebrate Christmas. Didn't you read the story about the woman whose father yelled at her just because she gave her little girl a Hanukkah bush?

What have you done to help Jews celebrate Christmas? Have you invited any Jews over for Christmas dinner?]

I recently visited the Jewish museum in Berlin. Interestingly enough I learned that the majority of urban Jews in 19th century Germany celebrated Christmas. Not as a Christian holiday, but as a German one.

[HS: Bad example because then Germans repaid the Jews for their joining in by sending them to gas chambers.]

I would estimate that at most 20% of Christmas is explicitly religious. Stuff like Santa, Christmas trees, Frosty the Snowman, exchanging gifts, eggnog, green and red motifs and big Christmas dinners are no more Christian than Thanksgiving.

Over 75% of Buddhists, Hindus and atheists in American celebrate Christmas as well. Hell Christmas is even a fairly big holiday in Japan, where less than 2% of the population in Christian.

The only reason not to celebrate Christmas is to be explicitly different. If you're not Christian that's fine, just drop Silent Night, going to church, the angel at the top of the tree and saying grace before dinner. Even most Christians don't do most of that stuff anyway. But to reject Christmas entirely is to at least to some extent reject a part of traditional American culture.

I suspect that Jews in the 19th century, particularly the most sophisticated, urbane and cosmopolitan ones celebrated because assimilation was promoted as a civic value in the West. Minorities were encouraged to become culturally more similar to the majority.

Since the post-war period the situation has reversed entirely. Diversity is celebrated for diversity sake. Being considered a minority is far more advantageous to both individuals and groups than being a "bland" regular person.

Consequently we see the result of this change in incentives. Groups try to emphasize their differences from mainstream Western culture rather than assimilating to it.

Note HS:

The same feeling applies to gentiles who work for Jewish companies when their coworkers/bosses are out for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, and they're stuck in the office.

No one likes to feel excluded. Both Christians and Jews like to rub it in each other faces.

My workplace, and my school, all have more than one menorah prominently displayed. Neither one has a Christian cross displayed anywhere.

My kids at school have been taught Jewish songs and instructed on the meaning of Hannukah. They have received no analogous instruction on the meaning of Christ's birth or sung any Christmas hymns (i.e., songs that mention Christ or God, not just anodyne Jingle Bells secular tunes).

Who the foxtrot should feel "left out" in modern America, Jews or Christians???

[HS: Everyone know the Menorah is just there because of political correctness and not because Hanukkah is as fun a holiday as Christmas. It's sort of like the "special" olympics. Or women's basketball.]

+1 Ardes. HS, how do you explain that all the Jews I knew in my 1/3 Jewish neighborhood in California were happy, well-adjusted, non-neurotic people who did just fine in life? And that was the '70's, when Christmas had no challengers. Nowadays people claim to be "left out" because whining is the way to get attention, maybe even interviewed by the local news. That's all. What happened to your natural scepticism?

What are Christians supposed to do? We're not going to become Jews, and you wouldn't want us. You definitely don't want us to convert to Islam. So we celebrate somebody's birthday. By doing that, we are in no way stating that anybody has to accept Jesus as the Messiah. There's no force involved.

I have generally found that religious Jews are far more tolerant of Christmas than secular Jews, by the way. I am often astounded at the level of anger displayed by secular Jews.

[HS: I'm not saying Christians should do anything, this is a post about how Jews FEEL. But like I told the other guy, maybe you should invite a lonely Jew over for Christmas dinner.]

Jews made a decision long ago to maintain their religion and culture while living among other peoples. The only real reason to do this is because it is what God wants and obedience to God's will is a form of worship. Being angry at your neighbors for having the wrong kind of belief and worship is pointless. Grandpa should have been able to patiently explain to the little girl that Jews are *different*, and that's good, not bad, but he doesn't seem to have believed it himself. Ms. Wertheimer is strangely uninformed about both Christmas and Christianity for a journalist, who is supposed to do cursory investigations of the things she rights about.

God Yul!

[HS: This implies that once upon a time there was some big meeting of Jews where they debated whether they should convert en masse to Christianity or keep their religion, and of course such a thing never happened.

And no one said Jews are ANGRY at Christians, I said they feel left out and lonely.

Furthermore, Judiasm is inherently unlogical because it's RELIGION which by definition is not scientific.]

HS,

Your response to me doesn't work. Libertarians don't move to New Hampshire because no one wants to move to New Hampshire: it's really cold; there are no cities; and the people are weird but not in an interesting way. Serious Jews do move to Israel.

Israel's future may not be so bright, but America's is probably not so rosy either. I stand by the broader point that America is, or was, an overwhlemingly Christian country, and hyperventilating Jews who see persecution everywhere or feel left out just need to grow up. I also cannot really believe you intended this post seriously.

And I thought Muslims had it rough in our country. Poor Jews...

My family is Jewish atheist, we had a very simple solution. We celebrated Santa Christmas, not Jesus Christmas, it so obvious I'm amazed more people don't do it. You get the good parts: the tree, the presents, big meal with the whole family, etc. You don't get the stupid stuff like the virgin birth and the son of god and three Persian kings somehow visiting a manger in Roman Judea.

Want to know the best part? Most people already do this, including nominally Christian gentiles. Santa in his modern form was invented by Coca Cola, and let's face facts, Hannukah sucks and it isn't even that important of a holiday within Judaism. I've seen how "Christian" families celebrate Christmas, nothing overtly religious about it except in rare cases of fundamentalists.

There are too many idiot Jews out there who think their culture somehow bans getting in on the fun. This is America, consumerism is a part of our culture. Forget the religious crap and stop thinking in those terms.

"Wouldn't modern American "Christians who believe in their own BS" be upset with Jews because they (like the pagan Romans) had a hand in his death? "

Modern Rabbinical Judaism is as far removed from the Second Temple Judaism of the Roman period as Christianity is. The Rabbinical Jewish religion practiced in Israel today is no closer to the religion of King Herod as Christianity. Christians have just as much equal claim to be the true religious descendants of King David as modern Rabbinical Jews. Therefore if any Christian is upset at the Rabbinical Jews for Jesus, he should be equally upset at Christians themselves.

The analogy would be like Lutherans getting mad at Episcopalians for the action of the Catholic Church. Rationalized by the fact that the Episcopalian Church is descended from the English Catholic Church (as are the Lutherans). It's nonsense. Plain and simple.

"For centuries, the traditional understanding has been that Judaism came before Christianity and that Christianity separated from Judaism some time after the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE. Starting in the latter half of the 20th century, some scholars have begun to argue that the historical picture is quite a bit more complicated than that.[7] In the 1st century, many Jewish sects existed in competition with each other, see Second Temple Judaism. The sects which eventually became Rabbinic Judaism and Early Christianity were but two of these. Some scholars have begun to propose a model which envisions a twin birth of Christianity and Judaism rather than a separation of the former from the latter."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Judaism

I feel left out on MLK day.

"HS: This is a post about how Jews FEEL and not about whether Christmas should be "devalued." Perhaps if there was more openness and understanding, then religious Christians would be better able to value Christmas and Jews wouldn't feel threatened by it."

Yeah and I am telling you how Christians feel about the media's intentional devaluing of Christmas. You guys need to stop it. Tell Sarnoff next time you see him.

[HS: Is there a shortage of Christmas in the MSM? Turn on the radio and all you hear is Christmas music. If you don't hear religious Christmas music, that's probably because it's not what the majority of Christians want to hear.]

I wouldn't invite a Jewish neighbor or acquaintance over to Christmas dinner for fear of offending him or her.

In a sane world, everyone would be welcome, but this is the land of hurt feelings.

[HS: So people say Jews should just celebrate Christmas, but if their families will yell at them, and no Christians will invite them over, how are they supposed to do that?]

This is probably just how Irving Berlin felt when he wrote his best-known song, "The Boy Who Was Sad at Christmas-Time."

Jews need a holiday like St. Patrick's or Cinco de Mayo which is fun and everyone celebrates even though it makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe the birthday of Einstein or something.

[HS: But Jewish holidays are NOT fun, they all involve hours of praying and fasting, or at minimum not being allowed to drive or watch TV.]

" Is there a shortage of Christmas in the MSM? Turn on the radio and all you hear is Christmas music."

Like I said, anodyne secular crap. You might as well call it "Winder Holiday Music".

[HS: And like I said, this is probably because proles LIKE that music, but it's still CHRISTMAS secular music and not Jewish secular music. It makes Jews feel left out. Whenever there's a Hanukkah song like the one by Adam Sandler, it's always sarcastic.]

"Hey everybody go buy stuff" is not a religious message but that is the message they're sending when they play "Christmas music".

[HS: People shouldn't fall for that value transference advertising. People should value spending time with their families instead of buying stuff.]

I tell you what HS, I'll trade all my Christmas memories for your Chanukah memories. Arrange the mind meld.

[HS: You're not prepared. The sadness of eating burnt latkes while your friends are eating delicious unkosher holiday foods will be too painful and you will commit suicide.]

As a nonbeliever I still celebrate Christmas. The holiday predates Christianity and it's a good excuse to do something nice for people and spend time with your family (and get a day off).

There is nothing stopping Jews from doing this with their own family. Concerning the article, She has to decide what's more important to her and for her family. Her grandfathers view of what's proper Jewish behavior doesn't have to be respected.

[HS: Jews don't have a family social network that enables them to celebrate Christmas, even if they want to.]

Jews purposefully cultivate the FEELING of being outsiders, left out, jealous and lonely. Jewish communities maintain their identity by dressing and acting very differently than the rest of society. They purposefully make their kids FEEL bad so that when they grow up, they rationalize their FEELINGS of otherness and jealousy by deciding to become enthusiastic Jews. It's not Christians' fault: it's Jews who are forcing their children to FEEL terrible. I may feel sorry for a Jewish child but not a Jewish adult who can make decisions for himself.

My great-grandmother rejected Judaism and converted to Christianity, raising her children in Brooklyn in the 1920s, the same neighborhood as her parents and 7 siblings still lived. She had the courage to chuck the Jewish crap despite all the social pressure.

"Ultra-Orthodox Jews living in Brooklyn don't have this alienation problem"

That is because they know who they are. They are not the ones ignoring kashrut and all the other mitzvot only to wring their hands when the dominant culture gets overbearing with a really fun holiday. You might have noticed the prevalence of "Jews feel left out at Christmas" articles and the paucity of "Jews feel left out at barbeques and crab boils" stories.

The author of the first article is a perfect example. She thinks the Greeks merely wanted to "try to ban some Jewish practices". It is obvious she could not describe the Maccabean revolt even in the most general terms.

And I thought cafeteria Catholics were bad.

[HS: So people say Jews should just celebrate Christmas, but if their families will yell at them, and no Christians will invite them over, how are they supposed to do that?]

Easy. Say "F- you" to your family and then invite some Christians over a few days before or few days after Christmas. Then spend Christmas day cooking a big meal, make some cookies, open some presents and spend the rest of the day playing with your presents. Christmas really isn't that complicated, HS.

"But like I told the other guy, maybe you should invite a lonely Jew over for Christmas dinner".

Jews will be celebrating Christmas by eating at the Chinese restaurants. I wonder how these Chinese atheists feel when everyone else is having a good time.

[HS: Chinese are Taoist or Buddhist, and they don't have a history of surviving for 2000 years as a persecuted minority religion, so they obviously have a different viewpoint about living among Christians.]

Well, now you know how Gentiles feel during Tisha Ba'v.

It wouldn't be a Half Sigma Christmas without the annual "Jewish Self Pity" post. But where's the part about forlorn dining at a near-deserted Chinese restaurant?

Philip Roth would've squeezed a couple of novels out of this material.

"HS: Atheists aren't in the same position as Jews, especially secular Jews who define their Judaism as NOT being Christian."

Is there really a functional difference between atheists and secular Jews?


"Furthermore, Judiasm is inherently unlogical because it's RELIGION which by definition is not scientific."

Science uses logic, but science and logic aren't the same thing. Many Catholic theologians are actually skillful logicians. You may disagree with their initial premises, but it doesn't make them "unlogical."

Here's James Howard Kunstler's Christmas Story. He is Jewish but fanatically pro-Christmas, more than I am (and I'm not Jewish).

http://www.kunstler.com/stories_christmas.html

This story can be interpreted in a very interesting way. I'll leave it to your imagination.

[HS: And like I said, this is probably because proles LIKE that music, but it's still CHRISTMAS secular music and not Jewish secular music. It makes Jews feel left out.]

"Christmas" songs written by Jews:
"Winter Wonderland"
"Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire"
"Sleigh Ride"
"Let It Snow! Let it Snow! Let it Snow!"
"White Christmas"
"Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer"
"It's The Most Wonderful Time Of The Year"
"Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree"
"Silver Bells"
"l'll Be Home For Christmas"

In short, "Christmas" music is Jewish secular music -- Jews shouldn't feel left out, they should own it!

[HS: That's cute, but nobody thinks that way. It's Christmas music.]

You sound like a leftist, wahhhhh, muh feelings! People like you are the reason that department store workers no longer say Merry Christmas because they fear the ass devastation that will ensue. Plenty of gentiles, especially the poor ones, hate this time of year, myselff included. The media and academia shit all over Christians and white men year round.

[HS: I don't run a department store, and I say Merry Christmas to people.]

"[HS: Jews don't have a family social network that enables them to celebrate Christmas, even if they want to.]"

Well there's a way to solve that. Find a nice wife, have some kids and build your own family social network. Let your parents and grandparents have a fit and celebrate Christmas. It seems to be what you want to do.

No one prevents Jews from celebrating Christmas. If they feel left out, it's only because they themselves decided to be left out. I am a half Jew and and atheist and that does not prevent me from celebrating Christmas and not feel bad about it in any way. Stop whining!

As a practicing Mormon, I've felt this way when people I know go out drinking, for a smoke, etc.
But I don't ask for sympathy, and frankly, avoiding binge drinking when you're a teenager isn't a bad idea.

I don't even think of Christmas as a Christian holiday anymore. Its pagan roots are showing more and more every year. And in my case, I care way more about Asian gals than anything of the West (thus white nationalist hatred of said females).

So I say Merry Christmas to my fellow non-Christians.

Quote: "This is something that a lot of the gentiles reading this blog refuse to get, but Jews feel very unhappy and left out during Christmas, especially children"

So what? In your opinion, this apparently gives Jews the right to make Christians feel guilty about celebrating Christmas and practicing Christianity. One of the many problems with the Jews is that they believe they are the center of the universe and that geniles have a moral obligation to pander to their emotional insecurities.

[HS: I keep saying, this information about how Jews FEEL and not about whether they are justified or if anything should be done about it.]

A simple solution would be to marry a Protestant or Catholic. You'll get to spend Christmas with your in laws and you'll never feel left out again.

Off Topic:

Here it comes, Half Sigma, the War on HBD:

http://www.thestar.com/living/article/1304289--iq-a-myth-study-says

IQ is a myth.

Quote: "And I think that’s pretty typical, even for Jews who live in the New York City area."

If Jews don't like living in a predominantly Christian nation then they should move to Israel.

[HS: Israel is surrounded my Muslims who hate Jews. And they don't even speak English. Not a good place for most Jews in the U.S. to move.]

Tragic! I was not aware that Jews were being psychologically attacked by Weapons of Mass Festivities. I will start a nationwide Hug-A-Jew-At-Xmas campaign; we can call it HAJAX.

Quote: "From age 9 on, my brothers and I were the only Jews in a rural Ohio school system."

Here is a suggestion: If you think there are too many Christians in Ohio then don't live in Ohio. Why do you Jews have to be so whiney and self-pitying? Maybe if you people would man up a little and stop constantly finding reasons to complain you would have fewer enemies?

[HS: As a 9 year old kid, he didn't ASK to live in Ohio, that's where he was brought up, and maybe he's justified in feeling like he was left out, which he was.]

As a Mormon, I never got to go with my friends to see Rated R movies. [Sniff]

Off-topic (okay, it's peripherally related, dealing with Christmas shopping):
Inspired by your demographic analysis of the crowd at a Brooklyn farmers' market some months ago, I tried to do the same when at the Union Square holiday bazaar earlier today. I arrived about 11:30 and stayed for around 90 minutes. While I spent a bit more than budgeted, I really don't mind, it's nice buying gifts. Besides, for the past two Christmases my struggles in the life insurance scam, er, industry put quite a damper on what I was able to spend. It's nice to make enough money that Christmas shopping is no longer a big burden.

Anyway, given that it was a workday, the bazaar was quite crowded. At times it was a bit of a squeeze to get through the aisles between the booths, though the aisles are relatively narrow. The crowd was predominately female, I'm going to say around two-thirds (this and all my other observations are strictly impressions, I did no counting). It also tended to be a young crowd, with people in their 20's being the most common age group, though there were a decent number of people in older age groups including a surprising number of seniors.
I'd peg the crowd at about 85% white, the remainder being mostly Asian with a scattering of blacks. To my surprise I saw *no* identifiable Hispanics. About all I can think of by way of explanation is that because Hispanics are in many ways the backbone of the city's working class, it may be hard for them to get time off on a workday. Another thing about race is that the Asians and blacks were almost entirely female.
Most of the people were either alone or were young women in small groups. The relatively few man-woman couples I saw were mostly among people middle-aged or older. There was one interracial couple, a white male/Asian female, both of whom were in their late teens or very early 20's. Other than a young woman with a baby in a stroller I saw no children. Okay, I didn't expect to see any school-aged children as school's in session, but I had figured there'd be more young children with their mothers.

"[HS: This is not a post about how Jews SHOULD feel, it's an observation of how they DO feel.]"

Those feelings seem unreasonable to me. I'm walking into the San Francisco Cathedral on Christmas eve.

It's about how you choose to define yourself and whether you can partake of something that makes others happy. Not very hard if you don't define yourself as the "other."

In this post we learn that HS's readers have no sympathy for Jews. Why it's just like Kristallnacht all over again. I kid, I kid. Did you hear the one about the SS soldier who was tired? He ran out of gas. I'll be in the Catskills Dec 23-25, meet me at the gefilte fish table.

Some responses to a few posts:

"Didn't you read the story about the woman whose father yelled at her just because she gave her little girl a Hanukkah bush?"

No, but I would have yelled at her too. There is no such thing as a Hanukkah bush.

"What have you done to help Jews celebrate Christmas? Have you invited any Jews over for Christmas dinner?"

I don't know any Jews. However I don't invite non-Jews over for Christmas dinner either, just my wife and my daughter. Perhaps extreme extroverts might need to be invited places, but most people celebrate holidays with their nuclear family only.

"Your response to me doesn't work. Libertarians don't move to New Hampshire because no one wants to move to New Hampshire: it's really cold; there are no cities"

In terms of cold you are almost certainly right. In terms of cities you are wrong. Polls have shown that we have far more people living in cities than want to live in cities. We've overbuilt urban areas. People want to leave the cities that they are trapped in. Among libertarians I would expect this trend to be stronger.

"But Jewish holidays are NOT fun, they all involve hours of praying and fasting, or at minimum not being allowed to drive or watch TV"

Ahh that's where a little imagination is warranted. America's St Patrick's day is a day of pinching children and drinking adults. Everyone wears green and shamrocks! In Ireland it is a boring day of prayer. Likewise Cinco de Mayo is an American holiday and not celebrated in Mexico.

Perhaps the Jews could sacrifice of one their minor holidays (Hanukkah?) and turn it into something that everyone can enjoy. According to wikipedia foods fried in oil are part of it. Doughnuts and FRIED CHICKEN!!!! Maybe bars would have menorah's with shot glasses instead of candles (which would leave me out since I don't drink). There, bam, everyone can celebrate Jews for a day.

"People shouldn't fall for that value transference advertising. People should value spending time with their families instead of buying stuff"

Actually I disagree. People should be completely rational and practical on every other day. The point of holidays is to act as a release valve, to indulge. Holidays are supposed to be impractical and maybe go a bit against your values. The key of course is to restrict this to holidays.

"Easy. Say "F- you" to your family and then invite some Christians over a few days before or few days after Christmas."

That's ridiculous. Children (even as adults) should respect their parents. Selling out your family for a few Christians is a horrific idea. The family should, together, decide to start celebrating Christmas - no Christians required.

@ Peter

Who cares what Asians do in Christmas?

Christmas in America has become an essentially secular holiday. It's as American as mom and apple pie. Jews who choose not to celebrate it are simply obtuse. We're assimilated Jews (heretics! but we're active members of our congregation) and we're Americans. I won't deny Christmas to my kids. (Of course we celebrate Chanukah too, although the Maccabees would have slaughtered us...) We have a blue stained-glass Star of David on top of our tree. Yes, Star of David tree toppers are commercially available. What does that say?

When I was a kid, I felt left out when the Jewish kids got to take days off for Jewish holidays (during which they goofed off and watched TV) in addition to the Christian holidays (during which they goofed off and watched TV). I wanted that extra time to goof off and watch TV as well!

"Jews need a holiday like St. Patrick's or Cinco de Mayo which is fun and everyone celebrates even though it makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe the birthday of Einstein or something."

Purim. But secular Jews barely know that this one exists.

"Off Topic:

Here it comes, Half Sigma, the War on HBD:

http://www.thestar.com/living/article/1304289--iq-a-myth-study-says

IQ is a myth."

It was coming. The elite cannot let HBD spread in the superior classes (which it did in the last couple of years) without reaction.

This "study" doesn't contradict HBD at all, but the masses will interpret it as something which does... which was probably the intention of the big newspapers when they picked it up from PubMed.

"[HS: Jews aren't moving to Israel for the same reason that lbiertarians aren't moving to New Hampshire and that people who post on Stormfront aren't all moving to Idaho. Plus the fact that Israel will probably be taken over by Muslims in a few decades, so it's a dumb place to move to.]"

The probable reason he doesn't feel left out and you do is that you are more introverted, pessimistic and "analytic" than him. Extroverts take the world as it comes to them. If an unknown guy in the street offers them a cup of champagne on the New Year, they will take it and just laugh with him. Introverts will ask themselves a thousand sociological questions, think about complex issues, and end up grinning awkwardly.

If it can reassure you, Half, in Europe, most Whites are atheistic and don't give a shit about Xmas, except as a time for family gatherings. You should come there; lots of Jews too.

My wife and I are both Jewish and live in a small town in rural northern Nevada. There are a few landssmen here (funny how we all find each other wherever we are), but definitely not critical mass. The school my son goes to is big on Xmas carols and celebrations, and I support their effort to poke a sharp stick in the eye of the ACLU and other grinches.

My greatest sorrow at this time of the year is that I can't even explain the difference to my son, who is low-functioning autistic, just as he will forever be the son who knows not to ask at our Passover seder. I wish he could share the feelings of which you speak.

Hey HS I totally get what you're saying and I don't think you sound whiny at all. I never knew Jewish people felt that way about Christmas.

Christmas is so much fun, I hope you get to celebrate it at some point.

"And so the answer is... fight for decades against gentile white working class interests and tirelessly advocate for throwing open the borders to the hordes? Bit of overkill, doncha think?"

Nah, the answer is anti-Christmas bilboards: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/atheist-holiday-myth-billboards_n_1095456.html

The president of the group, American Atheists, that puts up those billboards? David Silverman. Think this campaign might be motivated just a tad by Silverman feeling left out at Christmastime when he was a kid?

I'm sure many here know that Christmas isn't based on the Bible but on many pagan activities and events, especially Saturnalia. Hence plenty of non-Christians can get all "Christmasy" around this time of the year.

Half Sigma, if you are feeling lonely, you are welcome to come to my house on Christmas. Just be advised: we will be attending church on Christmas Eve and reading the nativity story before we open our presents. But the food will be good and you can even play with my kids.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%202:1-21&version=NIV

I first noticed this in high school with a girl I had crush on. She was Jewish and seemed to not be able to emotionally handle the holiday -- and her family was worse. They saw it as some sort of "oppression." IMO: WTF?

I made the same point then that I'll make now: Christians don't mind that we get to take off school and work on the Jewish holidays. Why would Jews complain about getting time off for ours? Put 'em all together and you get a free week -- what's the problem?

"delicious unkosher holiday foods"

Like matambre and stollen...? {shudder} I'll take your burnt latkes.

Quote: "As a 9 year old kid, he didn't ASK to live in Ohio, that's where he was brought up"

Then he should blame his Jewish parents. You seem to be under the mad delusion that we gentiles have an obligation to make you Jews happy. We don't. If you don't like that then move to Israel where you will be surrounded by millions of Jews.

Quote: "Israel is surrounded my Muslims who hate Jews. And they don't even speak English. Not a good place for most Jews in the U.S. to move."

Maybe if you Jews were not constantly feeling sorry for yourselves and playing the victim at every opportunity, fewer people would hate you?

[HS: And Muslims would not hate Hindus if Hindus stopped feeling sorry for themselves? And Muslims would stop hating Salman Rushdie if he stopped feeling sorry for himself? No, that's not why Muslims hate Jews.]

"HS: Jews don't have a family social network that enables them to celebrate Christmas, even if they want to.

What the hell does that even mean?

What would be so freakin' hard to say: "Hey, why don't all my brothers, and sisters, and their families come on over on or around December 25th, we'll have a big dinner, and catch up with one another." The kids could play together with their cousins, and us adults could sit back and have adult beverages.

Or just get together with your parents? "Mom, Dad, how about I come over on or around December 25th this year, I've been feeling kind of lonely recently, and want to catch up with you guys. how about I dinner with you guys?"


And yes, my family and I have invited over to our house our Jewish friends and neighbors. We even invited our Dentist (She converted to Judaism), her husband, and two daughters, they were great company.

HS,

[ ... as a persecuted minority religion, so they obviously have a different viewpoint about living among Christians.]

You should join an atheist club and celebrate Human Light or whatever while suing some community that celebrates Christmas too enthusiastically. Lots of happy Jews in those groups.

Another game idea in your "Gentile Hunter" series: "Creche Crusher!" Manger scenes are coming to life in a small Christianist Idaho town and killing everyone! Only the IDF trained Haff Sigberg can save everyone by destroying all of that zombified Christian iconography!

I was always led to believe Hanukkah was as much fun as Christmas, but just different. A menorah instead of a Christmas tree, gifts spread out over 8 days instead of one, and dreidels instead of stockings. I guess that is not how it works?

"Half Sigma, if you are feeling lonely, you are welcome to come to my house on Christmas. Just be advised: we will be attending church on Christmas Eve and reading the nativity story before we open our presents. But the food will be good and you can even play with my kids."

That's sweet! Half Sigma has no children and therefore failed in life. He was a stranger and you welcomed him! :)

Maybe afterwards HS can tell the children HBD-themed horror stories about NAMs and proles. Or maybe he could bore them to sleep by lecturing about post-Marxism and value transference.

outlaw josey wales-
I think it's more we really, really dislike when after stripping the holiday of damn near all meaning, still expects sympathy about feeling left out of the very holiday stripped of meaning at their behest, because all that remains of their own faith is not celebrating Christmas.

As mentioned Orthodox, who maintain the full traditions of the Jewish faith, don't feel left out at Christmas.

Come on. Jews being "left out at Christsmas" is like a woman complaining she's too beautiful. That's not a real problem.

First off, most modern Christmas songs are not religious and were written by Jews. And they're very, very good. Second, yes it is Christian. IN PART. That's life. This is a Christian country. We are not obliged to surrender our traditions, our values, any more than Jews in Israel or Japanese in Japan are required to celebrate Christmas.

Third, Christmas is half-pagan anyway. Yule logs, Christmas Trees, Christmas Lights, Holiday Inn, Miracle on 34th Street, Christmas Vacation, Christmas Story, they're all secular movies. And very good too. There is nothing the least bit Christian about Chevy Chase in National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. Nor is there about Christmas lights, or Christmas Trees.

That guy yelling at his wife was an oaf. A Christmas tree and presents have NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRIST. Indeed those most Christian of Puritans banned as pagan popery Christmas celebrations (and it is). A Christian Christmas would include religious carols, religious observances, and would exclude as not bearing on the birth of Christ all that other stuff: Santa, Rudolph, Chevy Chase, Christmas Trees, Presents, Yule logs, and so on.

Solution? Assimilation or elimination.

I'm all okay with the idea of celebrating the secular parts of the December 25th Saturnalia consumerist holiday, but as someone who believes in the strong power of words and language, let's stop calling it 'Christmas.'

HS: "I keep saying, this information about how Jews FEEL and not about whether they are justified or if anything should be done about it."

And your readers are just commenting on it, like they do with all of your posts.

Half Sigma

You won't get much sympathy on this because everyone understands there are two Christmases -- religious Christmas and secular Christmas. Everyone knows Jews are perfectly welcome to join in secular Christmas. For that matter, Jews would likely be welcome at any religious Christmas provided they were well-meaning. So no one is excluding Jews. Its entirely self-inflicted.

What's more, people realize secular Jews' resistance to secular Christmas is a rejection of gentiles and society. Religious Jews at least have religious reasons. But secular Jews should have no more objection to secular Christmas than Halloween, Valentines, St Patrick's or Mardi Gras. So rejecting secular Christmas is kind of a big "FU" which says "I don't want to be you". If you don't want to be "them" then that's your choice. But you can't expect the people you're rejecting to sympathize with the loneliness you feel as a result of your rejecting them. That's like kicking someone and expecting them to sympathize that you sprained your toe doing it. Though I don't expect you to see it that way.

The irony is that secular Jews are largely responsible for Christmas being ubiquitous. It was Jewish department stores that pushed it so hard. And its not like Jews are under represented in Hollywood and the music industry, either. I figure devout Christians are about as unhappy with the secularization of Christmas as you are with it being ubiquitous. The two kind of go together.

I realize you're not trying to justify the way Jews feel. You only want people to understand that some Jews feel that way. I understand that and think it's unfortunate.

PS: I'm not religious and have no problem with Christmas. We don't have a tree or lights or lawn ornaments. But we hang a wreath on the door, send cards and give a couple of presents. Then, again, I don't mind religion, either. I even send my children to a Catholic boys school. No one on either side of our family has ever been Catholic. Our children participate fully and it doesn't bother them or us. It doesn't change who we are. If anything, we're stronger and more confident because of it.

PPS: These short days and long winter nights can get depressing if you don't put a "magical" holiday in the middle of them. So don't get all depressive and woody allen on us. Go out. Have some fun with your family, your friends or just by yourself. And do it in your own way. And if you can't do that then at least get some eggnog and spike the hell out of it. I don't normally drink but that's what I do. In fact, I feel it kicking in now.

Good luck. And Happy Holidays.

Well, being left out sometimes is part and parcel of being a minority, religious or oterwise. I once spent Christmas in a Muslim country and it was pretty miserable.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324024004578171444161023374.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_read

Arthur Brooks uses the term "value creation" in the WSJ. Not as a defined term per se, but it has basically the same meaning as when used in Half Sigma parlance.

when i grew up and realized how much being raised in a jewish home had alienated me from the general populace i was angry at my family, not the wider populace for being the majority. anti-majoritarianism in a minority member is simple childish bad character.

[HS: Thank you for seeing the point of the post, and adding your recollection on how alienating if felt to be Jewish when everyone else was celebrating Christmas.]

The quintessential experience of Chrismas is when its pagan and Christian elements mesh together in a well unified tradition. It really becomes a true volkish holiday at that point. That's how it is for me anyway.

That is probably the part that alienates Jews at times.

I don't think 1/2 ∑ sounds whiney. Anyway, I find it amusing that otherwise intelligent critical thinking people fall for that neopagan fakelore about Saturnalia. It was forgotten for almost 2k years and never part of most of European tradition but suddenly Christmas is a pagan holdover. That is pretty funny.

Half Sigma's post was a total troll of weeping vagina proportions. Left out? Give me a break. Perhaps those people left out can take a look in the mirror and can also more closely examine the strengths and weaknesses of their family. As the son of a Jew, I can say one thing with a fair degree of confidence: Jews suck at having fun. For many Jews, their idea of having fun is ruining it for everyone else. This is surely endemic to their personality. Even if this is only 10% of the Jewish population, it ensures that Jews won't have funj because uncle Morty is always ready to ruin it by being a cheapskate or something. As this is an HBD blog, one should be seeking HBD reasons for these irrational and vaginal Jewish feelings. They are ridiculous. This is an issue that cannot be solved, nor addressed by gentiles, for it is a personality characteristic of many, but not all Jews that leads them to feel victimized. Jews lack the Scotch Irish spirit to standup for themselves. A better example cannot be found than Elie Wiesel calling for a ban on assault rifles. So the guy survives genocide by a central government, yet he is so fucking weak of a man that he reverts to hating the common man and instead worships the power of the central government by declaring that the common man must not be able to defend himself against the central government via assault rifles. Elie represents, I think it is fair to say, a majority Jewish opinion. Now think about how weak he must be, not in intelligence, but in spirit, to not recognize that if the average Jew owned a repeating rifle in the 1920s and had the spirit of a Scotch Irish, then the Holocaust could never have happened; six million lives saved from unimaginable horror. This weakness of spirit, or fight, or self-confidence, whatever the correct term, is what makes Jews sad; it has nothing to do with gentiles. Jews have many great qualities, but many Jews have a ton of substandard qualities, by comparison to other peoples. This is all HBD baby.

BTW, if Elie were so smart he would realize that if 100 people are killed every five years in mass shootings, and that is the price to pay to ensure that the government is not the sole purveyor of force within society, then that is nothing compared to the six million Jews who were murdered in horrific conditions. But Elie isn't so smart across the spectrum; at the end of the day he is proving to be en epic douche who gives into his feelings and vaginal inclinations which are driven by some sort of genetic disposition that I don't pretend to understand or relate to. And surely his opinions are driven by genetics because the lesson of the 20th century is that central governments have unequaled power to murder. Giving the state more and more power to murder, by disarming the populace is not a rational response to 100 million civilizations murdered by government.

I am sorry for everyone left out at Christmas. Being left out is no fun.

HS,

The fact that you post this claiming it's JUST about Jewish feelings and ignoring its perceived social context either shows a) you're Aspergery or b) you're trolling.

In a world where the Christian majority feels pressured to devalue Xmas every year and it's more common to see stores in China with Merry Christmas signs than in the US, any move to claim a need for sympathy for excluded non-Christians is going to be read as a shot over the bow in the ongoing culture wars to deChristianize US culture.

Yes, one should be sympathetic and open. But no, don't be so disingenuous. The negative reactions are to be expected and not entirely unreasonable.

[HS: I'M NOT SAYING ANYONE SHOULD "DEVALUE" CHRISTMAS! I am saying that Jews feel sad, lonely, alienated, and left out by Christmas, especially children. This is how it is.]

Hey Half - What's the difference between Conservative Jews in New York, and Conservative Jews in Los Angeles?

In New York, a Conservative Jew is like an Orthodox Jew, but they let men and women sit together in shul.

In Los Angeles, a Conservative Jew is one who puts only blue and white lights on the Hanukkah bush.

HS: "I am saying that Jews feel sad, lonely, alienated, and left out by Christmas, especially children."

Yes, we get it, but those sad feelings tend to resolve in certain kinds of bruised ego-ameliorative behavior, such as, for instance, undermining the religious nature of the holiday practiced by the alienating majority, or pushing equalist and secular agendas that act to diminish in both importance and social acceptability any overt signs of religious feelings or religious practices by the majority.

So though you aren't saying Jews *should* devalue Christmas, the feelings felt by Jews that you are describing tend to cause them to behave or inculcate in ways that *do* devalue Christmas. Although, for some reason I can't think off the top of my head, this wasn't so much a problem 60 years ago when Jews were composing some of the most beloved Christmas songs and when minority fetishism had yet to fully infect the culture.

[HS: And don't you think it's strange that Jews could compose great Christmas songs, but there isn't a single decent Hanukkah song except for one or two parody songs? Hanukkah is so pathetic a substitute for Christmas that Jews can't even compose music for it.]

"[HS: Other people's problems always seem minor to your own.]"

Lol, and you always seem to have such deep concern for feelings of alienation on the part of blacks. I think you'd get a lot more reminders of how different you are as the only black person in a white Christian town than you would as the only Jew.


[HS: And don't you think it's strange that Jews could compose great Christmas songs, but there isn't a single decent Hanukkah song except for one or two parody songs? Hanukkah is so pathetic a substitute for Christmas that Jews can't even compose music for it.]

This is a pretty good point.

Maybe some Jewish virtuoso should take up the task of doing something grand, beautiful and enduring to celebrate the events that Hannukah commemorates. When you create an inspiring thing of beauty like that, everyone will want to enjoy it. Kind of like Handel's Messiah. You don't have to be religious to enjoy such a beautiful composition.

the reactions to the post are a bit overblown. i have always wondered what jews really feel about xmas, and in the posts and the original posting, i have gained some insight. sometimes you christianist goys are a bit thin skinned yourselves. chill out.

If Jews aren't happy about living in successful and prosperous Christian countries where one out of 365 days things kind of suck for them (by way of their own particularist stubbornness in not adopting Christmas as a secular winter solstice holiday) then they can always move their funky asses back to Israel or Poland or wherever they come from. Or on the other hand they can move to a Muslim country and discuss how totally happy they are being able to stuff their faces all day during Ramadan...

On the second story: the grandfather beat both his wife and his daughter, so exploding over decorations that he didn't like isn't a particularly Jewish issue. It's more of a needs to be in prison issue.

Intermarriage rates with gentiles for conservative to secular Jews are more than 50%.

How could many of them not celebrate Christmas?

Jews whine as much as Asians, but I think Asians are more inclined to whine because they aren't White.

A word of wisdom for Jews who feel left out during X'mas, if you can't beat them, then join them.

Most Asians have figured out that by intermarrying with Whites, it would secure their happiness in a White majority nation. Jews need to focus on their intermarriage with Christian gentiles to seal the deal.

The comments to this entry are closed.