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December 18, 2012

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People with congenital analgesia would make good undercover field agents. If caught, they would never break under torture. I wonder if the CIA has looked into that?

ps The mother from all reports sounds like a headcase who took her beta hubby to the cleaners. If she finally considered her son worthy of locking up, it was too little too late.

If she knew he was nuts enough to be committed, why didn't she have the guns secured?

If I were ready to lock up my son not only would I hide the guns but I'd keep knives, razors and pills out of reach too.

So something still doesn't make sense IMO...

An important element to the mental health issue in our society was a political drive for the civil rights of the mentality ill back in the 1970s. It's worth some research.

Maybe taking the guns out of your house before committing your nutjob son would have been a good idea

This makes absolutely no sense. If the mother was planning on having her son committed, then she probably would've been wary that his reaction would result in some sort of violence, and she would've been more vigilant in securing her firearms. That being said, if all this is true, then is cognitive function and lucidity was much better than family and friends put on.

This whole article is based on the testimony of one guy, who's one qualification is that he lived near the shooting location and was associated with the local church. If Lanza's really were recluses, it's pretty perplexing how he would have come upon all this information.

"Maybe taking the guns out of your house before committing your nutjob son would have been a good idea."

Or, at the very least, locking the firearms in a safe that only you have the combination to.

Betcha the reason for the divorce was conflict about what to do with the troubled kid.

Bet the dad knew the kid was "nuts" while the mother clung to the idea he was only autistic or an Aspie, and people are kidding themselves if they think this kid didn't have schizophrenia.

We'll probably never know unless the father shares what he knows or should know through the kid's meetings with a psychiatrist (come on, now, we have to believet that these educated, affluent parents indeed had the kid to a psychiatrist, but it's harder to know at what age those visits probably stopped), when Lanza had his first psychotic episode.

I'll bet this wasn't his first, just his most violent.

My guess is that when the mother saw the kid becoming "harder to control" (that is, violent), she didn't want to admit the truth, that he was schizophrenic.

If he had been violent with her (grabbing her wrists, pushing her, stuff like that), she probably never processed that as "violent," just "hard to control, unruly."

Thus, she didn't worry about the availability of the guns.

A whole lot of parents just can't accept the word "violent" to describe their kid.

If this were 50 years ago and a real man was in the house as a father, this wouldn't have happened. The father would have had the kid committed or seen to it a crazy kid was locked up enough somehow not to hurt others.

Instead, we have a career-minded father who bought the "your kid is autistic, but he's a high- functioning, very bright autistic whom we call an Aspie."

At some point, the dad saw the kid was NOT functioning even minimally socially, but he got a divorce and moved away from his kid.

Both parents suffered from progressive beliefs about disturbed kids.

"The mother from all reports sounds like a headcase who took her beta hubby to the cleaners. If she finally considered her son worthy of locking up, it was too little too late."

This is bullshit. She's been described as either a prepper or a survivalist and this because she has stockpiled some food and liked to go to the range and target shoot. This characterization is from people who don't stockpile food and who thus find it odd. People with gardens can the harvest and therefore also stockpile food. Canning food is a practice done by tens of millions of people in the US. From where I'm standing the headcases are the people who rely on the fragile food transportation network. Hey, I'm sure the Sandy victims never missed a meal because FEMA was there to provide for them when the food delivery trucks couldn't maintain their schedules. I may be a headcase too because I find it entirely reasonable to have a few weeks of food in my house in case disaster strikes.

As for her relationship with her son, things are always clear ex post facto but absent the son having a history of physically attacking her, threatening to attack her, or threatening to attack other people, it's not reasonable to presume that he was primed to be a mass murderer. To be trite, there is always a first time for events in a person's life, so predicting an outcome before the first warning sign is difficult but it's a slam dunk after the line has been crossed.

As for her taking hubby to the cleaners, the divorce records released to the media indicate that the husband wanted to go beyond his legal requirements in terms of the settlement. The records indicate that both parents were concerned about Adam's welfare - mom ended up being a full-time babysitter and teacher and companion and dad provided the means for her to be able to do that. If I were in Dad's shoes I'd much rather fork over the cash than have to play nursemaid to a mentally ill son and I'd be damn thankful that the mother was stepping up to the plate to carry that burden.

The problem here is that the son was a wily evil fucker who likely played his cards close to his chest. There are no reports that I've seen which indicate that he was an emotional spaz who couldn't control his rage and acted out on it, like an open book. If he was an open book and Mom and Dad knew of his proclivities towards emotional outbursts and striking out violently, then and only then, could we hold the Mom and Dad to blame for their willful negligence. I haven't seen any reports like those in the press, so my default is that the blame lies completely with Adam. Mom went to sleep with that madman in her own home because she didn't think he was capable of pumping 4 bullets into her head as she slept.

Seems more likely that Nancy found a residential treatment facility for Adam and was planning to have him voluntarily move there. Parents frequently overlook signs of suicidal ideation up to and even after the moment of suicide. I am sure homicidal thoughts are no different.

Also, I have known responsible gun owners who became complacent precisely because they taught their children how to properly handle firearms. They tend to think that because the children have been taught to respect firearms, they would never mishandle or misuse them. It really is not different from the evangelical Christian parents who think that their children will not have sex before marriage, because they go to church every Sunday.

In any case, here is my final opinion on the Adam Lanza case and mass shootings in the U.S.: I don't buy the idea that they cannot be explained and cannot be prevented because their authors were simply batshit insane.

Total insanity, i.e. total lack of rationality, is very rare among humans.

I'm ready to bet Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold and now Adam Lanza had legitimate reasons to hate their parents or society. They were bullied, they hated their feminized father or their dumb mother, etc.

It is expected that the mass media will run away asap from this question, and instead redirect the issue toward guns or mental health. It prevents any criticism of society, and partakes in the general climate of societal laissez-faire.

CH wrote:
" The mother from all reports sounds like a headcase who took her beta hubby to the cleaners."
===========================================

Her husband buggered off and left her to care for their mentally ill son on her own. She deserved every penny she got from him.


As for the guns, they may well have been hidden and locked up. The kids may have discovered where they were and picked a lock to get them. However, she almost certainly didn't realize his potential for violence (or she wouldn't have lived alone with him.) People can be crazy without being violent.

FYI, the relevant SCOTUS ruling that barred most cases of involuntary commitment was called O'Connor V. Donaldson (1975). Successfully argued before the SCOTUS by--who else?--the ACLU.

Be very, very wary of advocating involuntarily commitment. Locking up political dissidents in mental hospitals has always been the left's go-to modus operandi, from the USSR and the entire Soviet Bloc in its day to post-War Norway committing anti-immigration advocates. Also read up on sophisticated ways in which East German Stasi induced "madness" in political dissidents by surprisingly simple psych-ops methods.

His mother knew he was going to the gun range so I doubt she was keeping the guns locked up. Also doesn't make much sense to let your son go to the range if you're ready to have him committed.

Re the divorce, "recently remarried" Peter Lanza had been living with his soon to be wife for three years. You do the math. Either he met Mrs. Right while leaving divorce court or it started out as an affair.

And depending on how recent "recently" is this could have been part of what made Adam snap. He might have killed his mom not out of anger but to spare her the emotional and legal fallout of his "mission" since he wasn't able to obtain his own guns.

Alex you're right, the media will never look at the larger societal issues nor will they touch the divorce of the parents or Mr. Lanza's instant GF. The articles about the divorce are trying to paint it as some kind of glowingly friendly agreement without asking the hard questions on how it might have impacted their already troubled son.

@Tangoman - I agree w/everything you said, but...even if he was a "wily evil fucker" Nancy should have secured those guns in a place where Adam could not get at them.

[HS: We don't know that she didn't. Remember that Adam is not a little child, he's an adult who may very well have been smarter than Nancy. Also, since "experts" say that people with Asperger's syndrome are non-violent, why would she think she would need to hide them?]

Also, she may well have had streaks of the paranoid survivalist. Let's wait a while before we let her off the hook on that, or convict her (which I admit, I have). If she was a prepper, and I stress, "if" - then Adam inherited her paranoia but magnified. Yes, it's true the media are biased, but it does appear that Nancy had a fascination for guns - isn't this kind of dangerous with a seriously disturbed son who spent most of his time playing violent computer games in the basement? (This is apparently a confirmed fact.)

Finally Tangoman, if Adam was a "wily evil fucker" that would indicate he wasn't Asperger's at all. To be wily is according to the DSM definitions, more on the schizophrenic side of the spectrum. Schizophrenics can be incredibly manipulative because they are so sensitive to emotion. Not Asperger's at all, then.

In short: right now we've got a mystery. The records are sealed. In so many cases the media drop the ball and walk away and we never know what the hell is the real situation. I hope this doesn't happen here. I want the records unsealed. I want Adam and Nancy's DNA to be analyzed and put on line. I want Peter Lanza to tell all. I want Ryan Lanza to tell all. (I think he's a victim, too, by the way. I can hardly imagine the hell he is going through.)

I want everything to be out in the open.

"He might have killed his mom not out of anger but to spare her the emotional and legal fallout of his "mission" since he wasn't able to obtain his own guns."

You don't shoot your mother in the face point-blank four times if you want to spare her feelings. Adam hated his mother with a passion. We may soon find out why, but recent news is shedding some light that mommy was a crazy, controlling bitch. In other words, a perfect representation of modern American feminism.

http://us.cnn.com/2012/12/18/us/connecticut-shooting-adam-lanza-barber/index.html?c=&page=1

"Or, at the very least, locking the firearms in a safe that only you have the combination to."

It's possible that she did put her guns in a safe, and that Adam eventually figured out where she kept the key.

"A friend of Nancy Lanza, who had done contracting work for her, was last in the home eight months ago and remembers seeing a lock box in the basement where Lanza kept her guns.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/16/us/connecticut-nancy-lanza-profile/index.html
"

He also physically destroyed the hard-disk of his computer before going on the rampage.

". . if Adam was a "wily evil fucker" that would indicate he wasn't Asperger's at all."

Not necessarily. My description of Adam focuses on his actions right before the carnage began not on how he behaved throughout his life. The unanswered and perhaps unanswerable question is did his mother see signs of the impending carnage or not and if so did she recognize those signs and take any action. We know that if she did take any action that such action was not effective. Adam didn't have to be manipulative throughout his life in order to be a wily evil fucker, all he had to do was keep his cards close to his chest, to nurture his intent to shoot his mother in her face four times as she slept and then plan to take out a school of young children all the while going about his daily routine. He's not manipulating anyone by doing this but he certainly is hiding something dark deep inside himself rather than being an open book. Maybe Nancy saw something was different but couldn't read the signs to understand that the son she was having breakfast with was fantasizing about her head exploding on her pillow as he stood over her and fired 4 bullets in her head.

"You don't shoot your mother in the face point-blank four times if you want to spare her feelings."

Exactly. For a sperg, this indicates an extraordinary intensity of emotion.

"Adam hated his mother with a passion."

For an isolated sperg the cartoon version of his mother not loving him and abandoning him in a mental hospital while volunteering to help children she loved more than him sounds quite plausible. His entire emotional world was focused on his mother - his bro hadn't seen him in over 2 years, the last time dad saw him was back in June. His mother was his life and his connection to the outside world and she wanted to rid herself of him. I find this to be the most plausible explanation which covers all of the bases.

"We may soon find out why, but recent news is shedding some light that mommy was a crazy, controlling bitch. In other words, a perfect representation of modern American feminism."

Quit trying to cram everything into your world view. It's bad enough when we have to debate spergs about economics or open borders, trying to live with one must be hell on earth. That barbershop incident needs to be put in context when dealing with a sperg rather than a normal boy. If mom didn't say anything Adam would likely have sat in that chair until sunset in that he was forced to deal with a stranger and didn't want to engage. Mom knows her kid better than the barber, so mom interjecting to answer for Adam likely saves the kid from having a meltdown as he is forced to interact against his own inclination.

If Nancy was acting this way with her other son, Ryan, then I would agree with you that she was a controlling woman, but all bets are off when you're dealing with a sperg.

"He also physically destroyed the hard-disk of his computer before going on the rampage."

As I wrote, a wily evil fucker. This is a smart thing to do in order to thwart the investigation that he knew would result. He was smart enough to anticipate and he had it all figured out even when it didn't matter after his death.

@Tangoman, fair enough, thanks for explaining more fully what you meant by 'wily evil fucker.'

That said, shooting his mother (four times no less) could be interpreted in a horrible, twisted way, as sparing her. If he was that calculating, why not leave her alive to suffer the shame of his actions? He has condemned his father and his brother to a lifetime of unmitigated hell. He has damned them utterly. Who the hell will marry Ryan, a normal guy up to this point? What kind of a life will Ryan have?

I just don't know enough about what precipitated A. Lanza. Killing his mother may have been giving into passion - indeed, it was a crime of passion, like a jealous lover. Perhaps Nancy had slept with someone recently? Just a guess.

On the other hand, he may have coldly executed her to spare her the shame of living with his crime. It sounds crazy, but A. Lanza was crazy.

@CH, "In other words, a perfect representation of modern American feminism."

Does Nancy's behavior, however quirky, explain why Ryan was a normal and high-functioning young man?

It's funny, in a sad way, that so many commenters here think that "spergs" are essentially inhuman while also being common enough to encounter frequently.

People diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome don't lack empathy. That dumbness about not having a "theory of mind" was disproven many years ago, and only the sillier news sites are still on it. Such people are not unemotional, simply unemotive. They're quite capable of love, or of hate.

Since it's currently a trendy diagnosis, I take any reports that so-and-so has Asperger's Syndrome with a bushel of salt. If Lanza actually did qualify, it would make him neither a ticking time bomb nor a gentle soul who could never harm a fly.

"It's funny, in a sad way, that so many commenters here think that "spergs" are essentially inhuman while also being common enough to encounter frequently."

Someone, a traditionalist Catholic, actually claimed (presumably because of my autism) that I have no soul and cannot be redeemed by Christ. I wonder if he thinks my consciousness would be annihilated or I would be destined to damnation after my biological life ceases. Of course, the former makes more sense if I really do not have a soul.

Black_Rose, that's actually funny in a sick way. You are like the beasts that perish? :-\

In a similar way, I'm a little amused by people who think that "all bets are off when you're dealing with a sperg" while also believing that the evil "spergs" walk among us everywhere.

One wonders how they handle the cognitive dissonance. Do they tell themselves they are perceiving something no one else can? Do they decide the label of "sperg" applies to anyone who seems to be creating a problem? Do they just go through life in a constant state of anxiety, wondering if the passerby or waiter or cashier is a "sperg" who might do something awful at any moment?

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