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December 09, 2012

Comments

Vampire sex isn't surprising to anyone who has read Roissy or been in a D/S relationship.

I'm more interested in the zombie fascination. Or the series homeland (which I haven't watched, but Whiskey wrote about). There is a lot of societal collapse stuff out there these days.

“science fiction/fantasy involving spaceships or Hobbits is nerdy, but vampires are not nerdy because girls like vampires.”"

Teenage girls like vampires, but no adult woman I know seems to care for them. This is pretty different from weird, maladjusted men who are sometimes obsessed with science fiction/fantasy/hobbits. An adult woman into vampires would be considered weird.

try the 2002 Nebula award winner "The Quantum Rose" if you would like to see inside women's heads on this subject. It is a case study precisely because the author had no idea how transparent her writing was in this regard. The main love interest is a telepathic alcoholic super alpha who steals the main character from a lesser alpha. Parts of it read like bad erotic fiction.

Ugh, just goes to show women are no better than animals (and before there's any retaliation, let me point out they've abandoned all pretense to the contrary).

I think there are two trends driving this new genre of Vampire porn.

1) Women are becoming more shameless in their desire for Alphaness in males. The "heroes" of Twilight, Vampire Diaries and True Blood are not only super strong and super sexy, they're also rich and powerful and charming and aloof and cocky funny... They're behave as if they've spent a good deal of their eternal life's having read Chateau Heartiste and RooshV.

2) There is no "morale" to the story anymore. The Vampires of today are superfial. VINOS. Vampires In Name Only. They lack the classical drawbacks that come with the decision to accept super human powers (being a foul creature, deformed, banished to the night, an outsider).

The Cullens in particular live a perfectly normal and happy upper middle class life.

If you combine those trends, what you get is the promise of a perfect upper class alpha male who could have anything and anyone he likes but who chooses you over all the world and for all eternity. And you will not only have him for a lifetime, he will stay forever because YOU will turn into a super hot immortal being yourself at some point.

You will never have to fear to be left alone with a bastard child. And you will never have to pay for your contraception anymore.

You will never have to fear to lose your middle class status again.

You will never get old and have wrinkles.

How cool is that? Of course, it's a childish fantasy. It's a woman's version of "He-Man" or "Dragonball Z". But Shhh, nobody don't tell.


Compare these dopey immortals to the dopey immortals of 20 years ago => Highlander.

You were immortal, yes. But everyone was constantly trying to get your head. And all your friends died. Over and over again. And in the end, you die too.
How much more realistic and how much more humane is Highlander compared to the Vampire crap of today?

Romance novels are all about the same thing though the trends change. Take your traditional tall, handsome male and make him and a "mysterious" vampire. Bam. Modern romance novel.

Women look for male-female relationship drama rather than genre trappings. LOTR isn't as popular with them because it consists of dudes bonding with each other, fighting battles, etc. By contrast teenage girls love the Hunger Games and Harry Potter; sci-fi and fantasy respectively. Space operas have always been more popular with women than "hard" sci-fi because they emphasize melodrama over say 10 pages describing how an FTL drive works. One day some intrepid YA writer is going to create a romantic space opera and make bank. Maybe something like Farscape only less genre-y.

Last time I was in Barnes and Noble they had a "Teen Paranormal Romance" section.

"but no adult woman I know seems to care for them."

What universe do you live in?

What's interesting is that, under typical definitions of abuse, the relationship in Twilight is "abusive."

Yet, girls the world over crave such a relationship, and they crave exact treatment, so long as the treatment comes from a similar type of male.

Discuss.

"Has anyone else noticed that there's a massive amount of contemporary fiction, which would fall under the romance genre, about sex with vampires and other supernaturals?"

It's been a while since I've watched any horror movies because I got bored with them. But I enjoyed Francis Ford Coppolla's version of Bram Stoker's Dracula. The original black and white Nosferatu movie was also interesting. However these non-scary Vampires have no appeal for me because they're really just romance-fantasy flicks.

I'm more irritated with zombies because they are lousy screen villians because they are so slow and dumb. Vampires used to be convincing villian-monsters.

"Compare these dopey immortals to the dopey immortals of 20 years ago => Highlander."

Ha. 20 years ago was the shitty sequel to Highlander. The original was 26 years ago.

More importantly, 20 years ago the hot chicks were tasked to KILL the vampire alphas not fall in love with them (Buffy the Vampire Slayer).

"Last time I was in Barnes and Noble they had a "Teen Paranormal Romance" section."

Yeah, and it is one of the biggest sections in the store as well as being right up front.

"1) Women are becoming more shameless in their desire for Alphaness in males."

Women have always wanted this in their romance novels and fantasies.

"2) There is no "morale" to the story anymore. The Vampires of today are superfial. VINOS."

Romance novels have always been superficial.

The difference now is that women may becoming relatively more upfront about their desire to be dominated due to increased sexual frustration.

"Compare these dopey immortals to the dopey immortals of 20 years ago => Highlander."

The Highlander series was marketed as an 80s action-titty fest for men, not as a romance-fantasy. Relatedly, there are few things more satisfying for men than watching 80s action movies.

"Ugh, just goes to show women are no better than animals (and before there's any retaliation, let me point out they've abandoned all pretense to the contrary)."

I find your ideas intriguing, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

"What universe do you live in?"

Know these people from the financial modeling firm I work at. The women (mostly American) being referred to are either MBAs or PhDs/PhD dropouts in some quant field , so probably atypical. The latter group, although nerdy, is surprisingly really not into vampires.

asdf said: "What universe do you live in?"

Eh, the only grown-ups I know who actually like the new breed of vampire novels are the retards (NYC public teachers mainly, plus shit-tier fashion chicks, failed actresses-cum-waitresses, etc.). They all got ultra-excited about the recent Hunger Games movie, post inane updates on Facebook incessantly, and do coke / drink way too much well into their 30s. These are the same women who, at 31-32 years old, will be getting black out drunk at Murray Hill bars for SantaCon next weekend.

On the other side of the coin, here are some authors you always, always find in "smart" girls' apartments: Irving, Roth, Pahlahniuk, Chabon, and Foer. Also, I don't think I've ever slept with an Ivy League -educated woman in New York who didn't have at least a few issues of the Economist lying around (unread).

I was about to say the same thing as Nobody -- that I saw an entire large shelf at the bookstore for "Teen Paranormal Romance."

Anyway I agree these books are such childish fantasy that it's embarrassing.

"LOTR isn't as popular with them because it consists of dudes bonding with each other, fighting battles, etc."

Sounds like roissy/CH/RooshV/game etc.

Just dudes bonding with each other and homo erotically fantasizing about Alpha Males and waging an endless battle against the forces of Evil = hypergamous women/feminists/illegal aliens/black criminals and White manginas.

Meanwhile the same male sex nerds who bash women for this vampire silliness pretend not to notice the male obsession with porn and science fiction dorkiness that is rampant in America.

"the 2002 Nebula award winner "The Quantum Rose""

Was there nothing more deserving of a Nebula than this?

The most popular story among chix these days is 50 Shades of Gray, which has nothing to do with vampires. Unless you count the part where the man pulls out the girl's tampon.

"Teenage girls like vampires, but no adult woman I know seems to care for them...An adult woman into vampires would be considered weird."

You are sadly mistaken.

Please google the term "Twilight Moms" and be prepared to be proven wrong.

To be fair, the Fresh Off the Boat guy observation is grounded. Go to something nerdy-ish of any type, and girls there will have plenty of mockery and disdain of Twilight and/or 50 Shades of Gray.

And before anyone decides to chime what nerd-ish thing have girls, that's seeing too black and white. It's not like going to some stem major the women exist at 0%, the majors inside varies and some are actually close to even. Yet the type of thinking to dislike things like Twilight goes across the board.

Peter,
50 shades began in concept as Twilight fan fiction, that's part of the reason it's so poorly written.

@ Ian

"What universe do you live in?"

No educated, normal adult SWPL woman living in NYC gets into horror/sci fi fantasy. There aren't that many "con" chicks here in the city, just like the rest of dumbo America with nothing else better to do.

Demographics of the females living in Manhattan who are usually educated, higher income, SWPLish, and with money to splurge on luxury items, getting into vampire stories is as bad as reading a toilet paper like the NY Post.

Women living in the Brooklyn section of Dirtbag Williamsburg is another thing. The same goes with NAM and Prolish women who aren't even mentioned here.

I haven´t read the books, but the movie version of Edward Cullen had a bad case of oneitis for Bella, and acted like a love-sick beta, vampire or not. He also looked pretty dorky with the heavy makeup and rouge on his lips.
The Alpha seemed to be Jake, the werewolf, at least that was my understanding of the films. He was even a NAM, walking around shirtless. I´m not a teenager, so who knows?

"The Highlander series was marketed as an 80s action-titty fest for men, not as a romance-fantasy."

The 90's TV series, on the other hand, was almost proto-Twilight.

You guys are missing a big point here which is that modern day vampires look effeminate. Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise looked like flaming pretty boys in "Interview With the Vampire." Same for the Twilight and Buffy vampires. The vampire in "Let the Right One In" was a hermaphrodite.

Teenage girls tend to be starstruck by effeminate, youthful males (i.e. Justin Bieber). I don't think it has much to do with alpha vs. beta. Today's vampires might be cocky and have super human strength but that certainly doesn't make them socially alpha. If anything vampires are depicted as outcasts and loners.

"The Cullens in particular live a perfectly normal and happy upper middle class life."

Yeah, pretty much. The only downsides for them are that they have to stay out of sight when it's sunny and move every ten years or so when their lack of aging gets noticed (this I know from being dragged to the 1st movie in the series).

Twilight vampires still get to have sex, be out and about during daytime, etc.

Ann Rice's vampires had more tradeoffs. Most of them could only go out at night, couldn't have sex, were more noticeably different (white skin, etc.), were subject to fits of depression and loneliness, etc.

Also, Rice's method for making vampires seemed more plausibly involved: you weren't just bitten; you were drained of nearly all of your blood, and then you sucked a few pints of vampire blood.

"On the other side of the coin, here are some authors you always, always find in "smart" girls' apartments: Irving, Roth, Pahlahniuk, Chabon, and Foer."

LOL @ Foer as smart reading. He is overrated, unoriginal, middlebrow, and has benefited massively from connections (had Joyce Carol Oates as a prof at Princeton, brother is a prominent journo, etc.). And, btw, people who like to read often read a mix of smart and popular books, sort of like how people can enjoy a good steak and a fast food burger at different times. My girlfriend, for example, has read the Twilight books (though she had no interest in seeing any of the movies after the first), but she's also read Pahlahniuk and Chabon (and Stephenson, etc.).

"eenage girls tend to be starstruck by effeminate, youthful males (i.e. Justin Bieber). I don't think it has much to do with alpha vs. beta. Today's vampires might be cocky and have super human strength but that certainly doesn't make them socially alpha. If anything vampires are depicted as outcasts and loners."

I have first hand experience this is true. I'm a college boy and I get noticed by girls on a continual basis despite the fact I ALMOST look like a chick. My current gf approached me first, so did the last.

Moreover, girls LOVE aloofness. My gf's have at some point or another, resented that they did the initial chasing, yet it didn't stop them from wanting my undivided attention to the relationship. I feel really sorry for emotionally overly available men who pour their hearts out to women and get no respect back while guys like me do just fine. Dating is value-transference if I've ever seen it...and I say this as a liberal feminist (or I "just claim to be, you're actually an arrogant sexist", as my gf has said).

I think Roissy's concept of alpha v. beta explains things best. It explains why skinny pretty boys get swooned over so much when 50 years ago they would have been picked on. Alpha doesn't always mean being a brute; plenty of physically "alpha-ish" don't appeal much to women for whatever reason.

It's just crazy reading what Roissy has said on all this because I've been acting like I had read him before I ever actually did.


"Meanwhile the same male sex nerds who bash women for this vampire silliness pretend not to notice the male obsession with porn and science fiction dorkiness that is rampant in America."

--Uhh, two words: Master Chief. Halo is HUGE nowadays, so is Transformers. Star Trek is now a popular motion picture, despite it being considered the epitome of nerdy just years ago. Star Wars was made acceptable to non-nerds a long time back. People in the latter 20th century thought we'd be living a Jetsons life by now. I think the fact we're not brings more attention to futurism.

The same for beauty and beast.

Deep down, these women want to be ravaged by alpha beasts. Send them to lion cage to fufill their final fantacy.

'If anything vampires are depicted as outcasts and loners.'

Lol. This is ridiculous. The vampires depict themselves as "loners," while enjoying a broad circle of friends/family/etc. that center around them.

It's nonsense. The vampires --- and really, most male protagonists --- are presented as alpha in action while verbalizing beta. The verbalizing beta part is what makes normal girls -think- they have a shot with such characters.

This is nothing new, though.
For example, When Harry Met Sally. Harry is presented as a beta male in many ways --- funny, amiable, but -oh yeah!- he bangs tons of bitches.

"The same for beauty and beast."

I remember the original show from the '80s. This is what the beast looked like in it: http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1717410048/ch0037603

And, apparently, this is the new one: http://www.cwtv.com/shows/beauty-and-the-beast/cast/jay-ryan

If memory serves, in the original series, the relationship between the two was never consummated. I haven't watched the new one.


Perhaps i dont mix with the refined company so many have claimed in these comments. I have watched all the women in my sphere, mostly married, plow through the twilight series at a rapid rate. They got through the 50 shades of gray series even faster. They would all admit to it being a guilty pleasure though, and i think most of them have the capacity for rational thinking - that which separates man from animals.

As someone else pointed out, males spend as much time immersed in gta, cod or some other recent game. What does our pechant for guitar hero say about us?

Roissy, and even whiskey, have some interesting things to say on occasion. You have to wonder though, how can they stay so focused on this issue for so long? These are not well adjusted individuals.

Fifty Shades of Bondage is hugely popular amongst Park Slope Moms. Its called Mommy Porn for a reason -- women age 30 and up just can't get enough of hard-core bondage sex stories with an Alpha male.

Women want more and more domination, as the guys around them get less and less Alpha. Less dominant. Less violent. Less unpredictable. Less aloof. Less elusive. Less commitment shy. In other words, less sexy.

[Buffy the TV series was pretty much proto-Twilight. LOTR stuff is action-adventure, the whole point being beating a seemingly unbeatable foe, given that no one makes 80's Action Movies anymore.]

The vampire aspect either:
1) Gives them a brooding dark side, i.e., makes them the bad boy.
or
2) Gives them a sort of aristocratic status, but a secret one!
...or both.

Vampires also are known for dominating more by their seductive personalities than their physical strength, and most women prefer them to the muscleheads.

Just Speculating,

"No educated, normal adult SWPL woman living in NYC gets into horror/sci fi fantasy."

The idea that this kind of stuff is only for "low class" women is rather silly. High class women are even more into it, they just hide it.

My last three girlfriends where all educated career women. An international agent, a girl with three masters from Harvard, an educated girl with model looks. Each ended up in a D/S relationship with me. Each wanted to be dominated hard. The last one cheated on a man and her three kids just to get some rough sex. She had read 50 Shades 20 times and posted on message boards for the book.

Sorry friend, all women are that way.

DaveinHackensack,

"My girlfriend, for example, has read the Twilight books"

That sucks buddy

"On the other side of the coin, here are some authors you always, always find in "smart" girls' apartments: Irving, Roth, Pahlahniuk, Chabon, and Foer."

I concur with DaveinHackensack and will expand on his point.

The idea elite SWPLs have much better taste in literature than the middle classes is true only in a marginal way. The bien pensant set are tend to be "educated" in postmodernist pseudo-intellectual authors mixed in with pop culture tracts.

When it comes to knowledge of the great works of writing SWPLs are laughably ignorant compared to what they would have you believe, albeit they are still somewhat better informed than the middle class. There are fewer SWPLs who can talk or write in depth about Plato's Republic, King Lear or Alexander Dumas than they would have you believe.

On average, European champagne socialists have studied the Western cannon in much more depth by high school than Ivy League SWPLs have. Of course the Europeans SWPLs also are indoctrinated with all of the post-WWI pseudo-intellectualism. But at least they have a more legitimate claim to being "educated" than American SWPLs.

"Also, I don't think I've ever slept with an Ivy League -educated woman in New York who didn't have at least a few issues of the Economist lying around (unread)."

The key word here is "unread". As I just pointed out, the supposed sophisticate class is usually out of their depth talking about meaningful subjects or good publications because SWPLs are more into pseudo-intellecutalism and the less low-brow pop culture trends. The Economist is only displayed prominently to make the SWPLs feel more "educated" than they actually. I'm also confident any SWPL with works of Dickens on their bookshelf has never actually read more than a few pages.

"The 90's TV series, on the other hand, was almost proto-Twilight."

The 90s is when movies and non-premium television began to suck to modern levels though I must give 90s TV credit for producing The Simpsons, Batman: The Animated Series, Seinfeld and Frasier. Movies deteriorated faster than TV, a decline they have not reversed since.

And good Lord did 90s "music" suck the second the clock struck midnight on New Years eve 1989. Music even continued to suck up to 2007-2008 when good music finally began to be recorded again.

"I have watched all the women in my sphere, mostly married, plow through the twilight series at a rapid rate."

Every class of young unmarried woman I know has also read it, regardless of political ideology. And yes, they also freely admit to it as a guilty pleasure.

asdf

"The idea that this kind of stuff is only for "low class" women is rather silly. High class women are even more into it, they just hide it".

Reading sci fi/horror in NYC is prole and low class. Man or Woman. There are 2 bookstores here in NYC on the same block radius. One caters to the comic cons horror freaks and the other sells used books to intellectual snobs. Do I need to tell you which one is infested with attractive SWPL women and the other with men who could never get laid?

Btw, 50 Shades of Grey is a poor example you used. It's a popular book that the NY Times recommends which means it's SWPLish. Had you said the Twilight series or worse, the Exorcist, it would've been less convincing. Granted, educated women would be interested, but they're a few. Prole women, underage girls and racial minorities are the main demographics.

"Waging an endless battle against the forces of Evil = hypergamous women/feminists/illegal aliens/black criminals and White manginas." - Rifleman


The five fingered fist of liberalism. Learn it and shut up already.

http://eradica.wordpress.com/2012/06/01/five-fingered-fist-of-liberalism/

"Meanwhile the same male sex nerds who bash women for this vampire silliness pretend not to notice the male obsession with porn and science fiction dorkiness that is rampant in America."


The neck beard culture is disparaged constantly as destructive and a symbol of societal decline. The primary reason it exists is because being male is practically criminalized in the schools, the workplace, the family setting, and most social contexts. It's understandable why guys want to avoid reality because unless they're high status their lives don't mean shit and misandrist "men" like you make it worse by trying your utmost to ridicule discussion about it. Go ahead and pull out your one liners now.

Just Speculating,

50 Shades of Grey is Twilight fan fiction. It's actually worse then Twilight.

"Reading sci fi/horror in NYC is prole and low class."

"Proles" generally don't read books of any kind.

And TUJ is right that most of the stuff SWPLs read is the literary equivalent of junk food. Most people find the classics boring, or assume they will be boring (though some works, such as Madame Bovary, are actually still quite readable).

At the far end of the spectrum are books that are deliberately boring in parts, obscure, and hard to read (e.g., Gravity's Rainbow, Infinite Jest). Those are like the literary equivalent of the Tough Mudder race, and SWPLs who have read them will be sure to let you know (e.g., I have read Gravity's Rainbow). But frankly they're not worth the time or effort for most people. I was able to read GR at work for a month, so I didn't feel like I wasted any time on it.

There are a few authors who manage to write books that fit a sweet spot where they're entertaining to read but also have some depth. Franzen is one example.

"a girl with three masters from Harvard"

wat

JS said: "Reading sci fi/horror in NYC is prole and low class. Man or Woman. There are 2 bookstores here in NYC on the same block radius. One caters to the comic cons horror freaks and the other sells used books to intellectual snobs. Do I need to tell you which one is infested with attractive SWPL women and the other with men who could never get laid?"

While the Strand is pretty awesome, I recommend the Housing Works bookstore just south of Houston on Crosby if you're hoping to creep on attractive young SWPLs. The Strand's lack of a coffee shop is a real killer.

Also, I stand by my comments about Twilight/50Shades and SWPL+ girls. I don't know a single one who'd admit to having read either. It really is only the idiots who're honest about being such huge fans of these books.

"Reading sci fi/horror in NYC is prole and low class"

Phillip K dick isn't low class douche

@ Dave

"Proles" generally don't read books of any kind".

I've seen a lot prole guys and girls frequent Barnes and Noble where it becomes almost a prolish activity to go to one of them. Not only have Barnes and Nobles in NYC become generic gift stores, they've become public libraries and repositories for the undesirables and people from the lower classes. These are the types that HS would describe as being less educated, less polished, usually with poor fashion sense, out of shape, and when it comes to reading, their taste is mostly low brow pop culture, IT books and magazines. I also see many NAMs perusing the same type of books. There was a group of Black girls picking up Twilight titles a few weeks ago when I came by to use the bathroom. One thing that no one seems to mention is that NAMs also have an interest in low brow White culture. I've seen Black guys enter sci fi and comic book shops just as much as White nerds.

Reading the classics might be boring to many, but it signifies SWPLdom. Most Proles and NAMs wouldn't find classical music to be their liking either.

[HS: People who buy books are at least middle class. Middle class buy crappy genre series. Upper middle class buy the more sophisticated books.]

@ Ian

"While the Strand is pretty awesome, I recommend the Housing Works bookstore just south of Houston on Crosby if you're hoping to creep on attractive young SWPLs. The Strand's lack of a coffee shop is a real killer".

I did go out with a former female employee at the Strand a few years ago. They have some cute girls working there, and you might be lucky at the right moment. My suggestion, is that if you like the Strand, just go there often and chat up with the ladies working there. You'll be seen as a regular, and some of them might have an interest in you.

The Strand has stood the test of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egw9QmQopmY

"Reading sci fi/horror in NYC is prole and low class."

Since when is geekiness associated with being prole? I thought, in fact, it was the opposite? You're confusing a gender difference with a class difference; comic books are predominantly a male-oriented phenomena, and a nerd one at that.

Japan being one exception where women and girls read graphic novels.

"Japan being one exception where women and girls read graphic novels."

Women read some graphic novels here too. My girlfriend got tickets to see Neil Gaiman interviewed at the 92nd Street Y a year or two ago, so I went with her. Gaiman got his start writing graphic novels before branching out into regular novels (I've read one of those novels by him, American Gods, which was quite good -- HBO is going to make a series out of it; tried reading one of his comic books, but that genre doesn't grab me at all.). The crowd there was about evenly split by gender.

BTW, that was an interesting experience for me. I'd gone to free book signings at bookstores once or twice, but this was like a rock concert -- 1,500 who bought tickets at ~$30 a pop to hear an author get interviewed by another author, and get a chance to ask him questions. Audience members were cheering when fictional characters' names were mentioned. Crazy.

This genera is called paranormal romance and I love it. Kresley Cole with her IAD books is queen. Christine Feehan is a pretty big seller. The thing about paranormal romance is the characters fall in love with their fated female. The male usually chases and he is sometimes a virgin.

I love you Whiskey :)
You will always be alpha enough for me.
Xoxoo

"People who buy books are at least middle class. Middle class buy crappy genre series. Upper middle class buy the more sophisticated books".

Yes, but the books you read define who you are. Proles or Prolish(those without a college education or from a low tier college)tend to have cheap tastes when it comes to reading. SWPLs (Ivy League or Top Tier College grad) read more sophisticated books.

Re: Reading sci fi/horror in NYC is prole and low class.

"Since when is geekiness associated with being prole?"

There are many adults without a college education who love to frequent sci fi/comic book shops.

The kind of readings mentioned which SWPLs favor are way too low brow for my tastes. I have J. Needham's "Science and Civilization in China, Volume II - History of Scientific Thought" to keep me busy (along with the collected works of Aristotle, etc.). I recently snagged "The Collected Papers of Claude Shannon" too...

Any work in which the footnotes occasionally eclipse the body of the text is alright with me.

I should break out my copy of Principia Mathematica by Russell and Whitehead: nothing like 100's of pages of dry formal logic to intimidate the uninitiated. The average SWPL would not even get through the introduction...

Chic Noir

I imagine women would identify with and enjoy reading about average women being pursued and wooed by really cool alpha vamps. Its such a refreshing change from the losers who normally pursue them and alphas who normally use and abuse and discard them.

Sanjuro said: "I should break out my copy of Principia Mathematica by Russell and Whitehead: nothing like 100's of pages of dry formal logic to intimidate the uninitiated. The average SWPL would not even get through the introduction..."

This sounds like a great way to advertise to the world that you have no desire to have sex with attractive women.

"(along with the collected works of Aristotle, etc.)"

If you want to impress, read it in Greek. When I was in college, the philosophy department hosted a talk by an Aristotle scholar from Oxford or somewhere. Some of the philosophy profs at my school were reading the parts of the text he was referring to in Greek. Most of them could read in a few different languages, so they could work with original source material.

Talking about Aristotle with the profs and grad students over Yuengling and pizza was a good time. Reading Aristotle by yourself... eh.

"I should break out my copy of Principia Mathematica by Russell and Whitehead: nothing like 100's of pages of dry formal logic to intimidate the uninitiated. The average SWPL would not even get through the introduction..."

Are you a handsome guy? It's not going to impress the ladies if you're not.

@ Dave

"Talking about Aristotle with the profs and grad students over Yuengling and pizza was a good time. Reading Aristotle by yourself... eh".

There's plenty of intellectual meetup events in the city where you can talk about Aristotle or any academic subject at a bar or a restaurant with others. Sometimes, you will come across an attractive geekess who has the same passion. Just to let you know...

@destructure- I think it's more the alpha who pay them no mind but whome average Jane sometimes lusts after.

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