« Half Sigma visits the Genius Bar | Main | Ron Unz' article about… »

December 01, 2012

Comments

**The democrats' portrayal of the republicans as having a strong association with evangelical Christianity is a huge turn off to non-Christian americans.

So hey, Blacks, who are the MOST DEVOUTLY CHRISTIAN ethnic group in the USA, should vote overwhelmingly for Republicans.

Unless it's not the Christianity after all.

http://www.pewforum.org/A-Religious-Portrait-of-African-Americans.aspx

While the U.S. is generally considered a highly religious nation, African-Americans are markedly more religious on a variety of measures than the U.S. population as a whole, including level of affiliation with a religion, attendance at religious services, frequency of prayer and religion's importance in life.
...
The Landscape Survey also finds that nearly eight-in-ten African-Americans (79%) say religion is very important in their lives, compared with 56% among all U.S. adults. In fact, even a large majority (72%) of African-Americans who are unaffiliated with any particular faith say religion plays at least a somewhat important role in their lives; nearly half (45%) of unaffiliated African-Americans say religion is very important in their lives, roughly three times the percentage who says this among the religiously unaffiliated population overall (16%). Indeed, on this measure, unaffiliated African-Americans more closely resemble the overall population of Catholics (56% say religion is very important) and mainline Protestants (52%).

Additionally, several measures illustrate the distinctiveness of the black community when it comes to religious practices and beliefs. More than half of African-Americans (53%) report attending religious services at least once a week, more than three-in-four (76%) say they pray on at least a daily basis and nearly nine-in-ten (88%) indicate they are absolutely certain that God exists. On each of these measures, African-Americans stand out as the most religiously committed racial or ethnic group in the nation. Even those African-Americans who are unaffiliated with any religious group pray nearly as often as the overall population of mainline Protestants (48% of unaffiliated African-Americans pray daily vs. 53% of all mainline Protestants). And unaffiliated African-Americans are about as likely to believe in God with absolute certainty (70%) as are mainline Protestants (73%) and Catholics (72%) overall.

[HS: Blacks vote Democratic because Democrats give them stuff like free telephones.]

Actually, I believe Razib Kahn's point was that Asians are becoming less Christian, not that the GOP is becoming less appealing. If Asians were still Christian they would still be GOP.

Also, in response to JPs comment poor whites get lots of welfare too but they don't vote like blacks.

Face it HS, the Republican party isn't going to rewrite its platform so you feel better at cocktail parties.

I'm inclined to believe that the Asian vote skew has more to do with the reality of the Cathedral-Industrial-Complex being able to portray Republicans as Bible-thumpers than the reality of Republicans not being atheistic. Which is to say, status trumping substance.

It's not the religion, but the media stereotype. The media portrays Dems as cool, caring, intelligent and scientific while Repubs are shown as uncool, bigoted, religious fanatics.

Until we find a way to win the culture/media perception war and make Dems pay no price for their hodgepodge of contradictory constituencies, we're going to lose no matter what.

If the Republicans lost the protestant Christians, it would all be over. While we might all be happy with the purity of the group, we wouldn't even come close to winning any elections. We'd be as hapless as the freedom parties in Europe.

-Mercy

[HS: Blacks vote Democratic because Democrats give them stuff like free telephones.]

Half, Asian vote Democrat because Democrats give them free Minority Disadvantaged Business loans. It's the Federal money they receive that makes them the "fake" model minority. That is what they voted for.

What do you think pays for all of those 711's, gas stations, korean warehouses, and other businesses these people run?

As the first commenter hints at, Republicans' actual association with Evangelical Christianity has little to do with the matter. Asian-Americans are often social climbers and conformists who are trying to work their way up in a particular subset of the white America. They have picked up on the fact that espousing Republican/conservative beliefs is not a good way to let the right people know you think the right things, which of course is often the best way to advance yourself. (There still are circles where espousing Republican/conservative beliefs is the way to let the right people know you think the right things, but Asians have very limited exposure to them.)

What we're going through now is a profound shift in religion not unlike the protestant reformation or the conversion of Rome the Christianity. The old religion of monotheistic Christian religion is being replaced with pantheistic Gaia spirituality.

Within 150 years I highly doubt that Christianity will exist in the West as anything but a highly corrupted form co-opted by Gaia-ism. Christianity if it exists will only exist in the non-Western world where you've had intensive historical missionary activity, like Korea and Africa.

The shame of it to true atheists like myself is that political capital is being wasted. Frankly if Christianity disappeared tomorrow I wouldn't give a shit. 95% of human beings are incapable of living without religion, but as long as we have responsible effective government I don't care if I'm ruled by the Xenu or the Elders of Zion.

Religious shifts almost always historically result in periods of extremely unstable and poor government. When civilization is focused on ecclesiastical debates secular matters fall by the wayside or get swept up in the fervor. I don't see a reason why this period will play out any different.

You do know Half Sigma that the evil evangelical religious right isn't considered truly religious or conservative by many on the far-right?

You're still stuck on the "evil religious right boogeyman!" created by leftists.

Low intelligence populations like Hispanics/Blacks can SAY that they are conservative but since they are influenced by media, universities, big corporations and other stuff due to their low levels of intelligence they are easily swayed to the liberal lifestyle.

Who watches all of those degenerate Hollywood movies? Who listens to the liberal authorities and doesn't question them at all? Stupid people.

I'm guessing these Asians are South Asians or Filipinos. Like Hispanics and Blacks, they can say one thing but they can't practice it because they don't have the capacity to create and sustain viable religious conservatism.

They are just parrots.

And one could argue that to a certain extent, for many blacks and even Hispanics, religion is less about doing right and wrong, and more about praying for more money and more stuff. It's primarily an emotional experience, where people go to sing and dance and be a part of the community and paper over their sinful lives of excessive drinking, smoking, and sexual activity. Despite being religious, you don't see much that translating into middle class, productive habits.

I'll quickly note that there are plenty of white people who follow similar "prosperity Gospel" messages. Who else props up Joel Osteen...

90% of the religiousity of the Republican party is centered around sexual morals (abortion, gay marriage, abstinence programs). Rabbi Shmuel Boteach, who makes sense when talking about sex although not evolution, and ran for Congress as a Republican this year says:

"And anyone who cares about the party knows that it can no longer postpone a serious reexamination of its sexual values obsession.”
http://tinyurl.com/c2mteug

Modern sexual morals has been a much smaller problem among the great majority of Americans than it has been among NAMs and the lowest IQ segment of the white population. Discussing the issue as sex, has been a way to avoid discussing the relationship of HBD, non-marital parenthood, welfare, and social pathologies like crime, drugs and non-education.

This is another area where someone needs to invent a new language of HBD, FOR THE GOOD OF NAMS THEMSELVES. And no large group is more openly accepting of HBD than Asians.

lots of whiteys are xtian. that is how it is. should we lose ALL of our identity to pander to our guests?

Oh yeah, Romney wouldn't shut up about Jesus.

The first post is right, Democrats have successfully framed Repubs as being Christian fundamentalists.

But if "the Republican party has become far more Christian in terms of its identity," then they will increasingly come to view Christianity as part and parcel of what it means to be Republican, so it's far less likely that they will give it up or even de-emphasize it in the future.

And considering that Whites as a whole are becoming more religion and conservative ( http://jaymans.wordpress.com/2012/11/30/expectations-and-reality-a-window-into-the-liberal-conservative-baby-gap/ ), I expect them to double-down on Jesus more than anything.

Most politicians claim to be Christian. To claim any other religion is usually political suicide.

Asians have become less Christian since 1990 not so much because they are turning away from religion, but because the Asian population includes a higher proportion of South Asians. Except for the occasional Catholic from Goa there are very few Christian South Asians.

As a RINO asian-american, I say it's all the China-bashing as well as memories of the Macaca incident(and they ran George Allen again this year in Va). Not that I care much for China myself (since my ancestry is from Taiwan), but Chinese-bashing always makes it feel at a gut level like their fingers are being pointed right at me.

I voted for McCain in '08. I would have voted for Obama this year, but chose to stay home. I liked Romney back in '08 but the primaries revealed him to be a flip-flopper and an out-of-touch wealthy dude.

The answer, obviously, is to not let so many asians into ostensibly white countries.

Hmmm nice that the data meshed so nicely with your prejudice....

You do realize that Obama is constantly using Christian imagery? And almost every major speech of his has a scriptural reference?

The Republican Party is seen as representing the traditional American WASP middle class nuclear family. The further you get from that, the more likely to vote Democrat.

How about a simple geographical explanation for Asian political affiliations?

Asians tend to be concentrated in large cities that are heavily-Democratic leaning; they're Democrats simply because they've assimilated into the SWPL culture dominant in the areas where they live. For example, it's unsurprising that Asians living in San Francisco or New York are Democrats, given that the whites living there also tend to be Democrats.

Waiting for the reasons behind your post (as anyone who cares even a tiny bit already understands your premise.)

I think this analysis is flawed. The real number of Christian Asians is marginal at best. Note that the graph shown doesn't include people who gave no answer. People who are labeled as "Asian" in the Pew survey do not come from Christian countries. Nor do many of them convert when coming here. I'd bet the majority of them are Filipino, who have been in the US for a while now, and are not the prototype of an "Asian" that most HS readers would think of.

"Half, Asian vote Democrat because Democrats give them free Minority Disadvantaged Business loans."

What % of asians actually own businesses? the younger generations probably own far fewer because they are busy working their Office Space jobs that require the US college degree that their parents may not have had.

"The answer, obviously, is to not let so many asians into ostensibly white countries."

This has been tried in most said countries. This is where you want to cue the theories of Jewish Cultural Marxism conspiring to destroy White Christendom by letting in the Yellow Hordes.

"Asians tend to be concentrated in large cities that are heavily-Democratic leaning; they're Democrats simply because they've assimilated into the SWPL culture dominant in the areas where they live."

Yes, the Occam's Razor explanation works best here. I have frequent debates with an Asian (American born) physician who's pretty good at passing all the school and standardized tests but has not an ounce of empirical sense or critical thinking ability in matters of economics and sociology. Not that we all have to be Hayeks, but we can't cling to what are essentially 2+2=5 fallacies and be trusted to vote in a way that will not destroy the country. This describes one aspect of SWPLdom pretty well. The larger % of college-educated Asians assures that, until the decades of experience correct their Left-propagandized minds, they will tilt Democrat in the 25-34 demographic.

Side note: Great to have David Alexander back!

"they've assimilated into the SWPL culture dominant in the areas where they live. For example, it's unsurprising that Asians living in San Francisco or New York are Democrats, given that the whites living there also tend to be Democrats".

Yes, but SWPLs generally dislike Asians especially their men. But the Democrats are happy to get their votes. As they say, a sucker is born every minute.

"What do you think pays for all of those 711's, gas stations, korean warehouses, and other businesses these people run?"

Pretty poor argument. Koreans still vote for republicans over dems. The asians that run businesses represent a minority of asians, who otherwise vote for a pro affirmative action party that hurts more asians than those who benefit from other handouts. Siggie is right, but commenters seem to be in denial.

Asian-Americans tend to go to elite schools and live in urban areas in California, New York, and other liberal locations so it is not surprising they tend to become liberal, too. Since a lower fraction of Asian-Americans are Christian today than in recent decades, that only makes it more likely that more drift into the liberal camp. These two trends can probably explain most of the electoral shift.

Note to HS: Razib is a bright guy, but he is not Jewish. His last name is K-H-A-N, not K-A-H-N.

"Within 150 years I highly doubt that Christianity will exist in the West as anything but a highly corrupted form co-opted by Gaia-ism."

Nah. In 150 years there will be none of these Gaianist creatures at all, because they refuse to breed and they will be eliminated from the gene pool.

"As a RINO asian-american, I say it's all the China-bashing"

The China policy of the Republicans is identical to that of the Democrats as far as I can tell.

Christians made this country a great nation, not Asians. The fact that Asians have a problem with Christianity is one more reason why we should not allow them to migrate to the United States.

Kurtosis -

"What % of asians actually own businesses? the younger generations probably own far fewer because they are busy working their Office Space jobs that require the US college degree that their parents may not have had."

You do realize that the Office Space jobs fill diversity requirements when they are staffed by Asians and Indians, right?

More generally, the point of my argument is that Asians and Indians are heavily privileged by the US government. They are a fake model minority. They may work hard, but the US government guarantees that they face no risk. Asians and Indians live video game lives in the United States where they advance by virtue of playing.

White Americans pay for that plus bear all the downside risks of living in the United States.

When I did a study of voter data in 1998 (for several presidential elections up to 1992), I discovered to my great surprise at the time that Evangelicals tended to vote Democrat. Mainline Protestants were more likely to be Republican back then.

The results surprised me because this was the time when the "religious right" was supposedly such a big deal (Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed... How often do you hear any of those names anymore?)

The "religious right" obviously wasn't appealing to even the majority of Evangelicals (who tend to have lower incomes than Mainline Protestants). Evangelical voters were probably voting Democrat because of their perceived economic interests.

Without having looked at more recent data, I would assume that Evangelicals are now voting much more Republican than Mainline Protestants, but I would guess that this is the result of an economic re-alignment among white voters (with higher income whites now voting Democrat).

All this is just to say that I am skeptical of religious explanations for American voting behavior. Race and class seem to be more pertinent factors.

So, why don't conservative white evangelicals stop voting for the GOP and their problems will be solved. That way, Asians can stay in the party and they'll win every single election and bring about the glorious victory of free market capitalism in a secular humanist cultural milieu.

All the pilgrims can just get on the Mayflower and sail back to Europe. The GOP doesn't need them.

Whether Christianity, per se, is the operative limitation, the modern Republican party has a distinctive Southern orientation, that is a turn-off to many educated people. Asians are much more (openly) accepting of race realism than most voters. But they're turned off when it comes wrapped in a package with Creationism and anti-abortion absolutism. (Mitt Romney was a good candidate, who was dragged down by having to face Seven Dwarves in the primaries.)

Jared Taylor of AmRen has a column up on TakiMag today, about HL Menken, who was no fan of either blacks or Southerners.

"The great problem ahead of the United States is that of reducing the high differential birthrate of the inferior orders, for example, the hillbillies of Appalachia, the gimme farmers of the Middle West, the lintheads of the South, and the Negroes. The prevailing political mountebanks have sought to put down a discussion of this as immoral: their aim has been to prosper and increase the unfit as much as possible, always at the expense of the fit. But this can’t go on forever, else we’ll have frank ochlocracy in America, and the progress of civilization will be halted altogether."

http://takimag.com/article/the_irreverent_mr_mencken_jared_taylor/print#disqus_thread

Modern race realism labors its legacy as the province of America's least intelligent region.

map,

Asians H1-Bs do all of the shit work at any company usually for less money. You don't know what your talking about.

Who cares? Asians in America have very few kids. Christians have lots. Who would you rather have if you were looking to the future?

There are lots of Asian-American evangelicals, especially at elite universities. Asians who are Christian are probably either evangelical or Catholic--Asians do not have much of a presence at mainline leftist churches. it tends to be on the A lot of the Christian organizations at elite universities are dominated by Asians, even if you can't tell from the name, which probably confuses white Christian freshman.

A lot of the Asian evangelicals I know voted for Obama. They typically live in liberal places and attend/attended liberal universities, so I am not surprised. I've found some Asian evangelicals to be quite a paradox. They believe in silly Christian things like biblical inerrancy and the physical reincarnation along with supporting gay marriage, absolute racial equality, and other silly tenets of leftism. Most of the Asian evangelicals I know do not have a strong opinion regarding abortion.

European Americans built this country. Asians become successful leeching off our schools and industries. We need to get them the hell out of this country.

1) it's khan, don't kosherize me HS :)

2) as usual, a lot of your readers are stupid in terms of their grasp of facts. i always find it ironic that believers in heritability of IQ and conscientiousness manifest low levels of one or the other. here's a link to a figure in the link i provided.

http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedImages/Topics/Demographics/overview3.png

i hope it will clear some of the bullshit floating around here.

I also don't buy into the asians as beneficiaries of affirmative action narrative. I've never heard of a company sued because it didn't hire enough asians. And of course business owners are perhaps the most Republican leaning occupation.

I think the association of evangelical Christianity with Dems in the past was that they used to be the party of southerners & (largely Catholic) immigrants. Republicans were the party of the dominant religion, mainline Protestantism. More lately the mainline has shrunk a lot with many defecting to evangelicalism, but they still lean a bit Republican. Mormons used to aspire more toward mainstream Protestant status and have similar attitudes, creationism has become popular among them as evangelical Christianity has become the more normative version of conservative protestantism.

Joe Walker,

The non-Irish made this country great, not the Irish. Why don't you go back to Ireland?

Libertarians are wrong. The GSS shows no evidence of a left shift to Asian politics, and minorities, including Asians, are more conservative than they are Republican.

http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2012/12/inscrutable-voters.html

"Most politicians claim to be Christian. To claim any other religion is usually political suicide."

You're right, aside from the dozen Jews in the Senate and the 1/3rd of the Supreme Court that's Jewish and...

"Christians made this country a great nation, not Asians."

Which Christians? Mostly mainstream Christians - Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians - not evangelicals. The problem with modern Christianity is that it's been decapitated.

[HS: The country was made great by mainline Protestants, not evangelicals, not Pentacostals, not Catholics.]

Republicans oppose giving away *things* (at least not to the poor or middle class; to the rich they give cheap labor, etc.). So they have to offer them something for their votes. That's why evangelicals are important to the GOP: they want something other than votes - they want values (whether or not the GOP ever actually does, or can do anything to implement those values).

Of course cultural conservatism is absolutely necessary for fiscal conservatism to survive. The alternative is Lena Dunham's vagina in your face forever.

"It’s the Christianity, stupid!"

Baloney. Hispanics are more Christian than whites. Blacks are definitely more Christian than whites.

It is just racialist voting, pure and simple.

Consider that GW Bush, who was much more openly religious and fundamentalist than Romney, did considerably better among Hispanics, Blacks and Asians than Romney. Bush put some color on his team (Rice, Powell, Gonzalez).

Romney might have won if he took the edge off his perceived whiteness with a Rubio or some such, rather than doubling down. Bitter truth.

Just a few years ago (2002-2006), Maryland had Republican governor Bob Ehrlich, but with a black Lieutenant governor). And he beat a Kennedy at that.

The comments to this entry are closed.